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- tecratour, on 12/11/2008, -79/+480Digg me up if you think this was a terrible idea. Digg me down if you support it.
- BuryBrigade08, on 12/11/2008, -23/+296But but...I thought we were told that Republicans were corporate shills who were in the pocket of big business? Who just voted to hand over billions and billions to big business? Lets see:
237 members of Congress voted for this. How many of those were Democrats and Republicans?
DEMOCRATS: 205 yea 20 nea
REPUBLICANS: 32 yeah 150 nea
Please - keep it up, Democrats. You are writing the political ads that will throw you out of power in 2010 and 2012, and you haven't even formally taken control yet. - wrobson, on 12/11/2008, -10/+242But we still support the Free Market and Capitalism right?
Do you think the horse market in the United States was looking for a bailout when GM and Ford started to build cars. - girlsarewhores, on 12/11/2008, -6/+172Where's the bailout package for out of work programmers? :(
- badqat, on 12/11/2008, -7/+168Let's see...this ought to keep the big 3 chugging for what, two or three months max?
Mission Accomplished! - Cararan, on 12/11/2008, -2/+153Do I get a free car now???
- scorchingtruth, on 12/11/2008, -4/+133Why invest money into something that will fail tomorrow? Dumb move. Bailing out a capitalistic society goes against everything we stand for. They get paid their millions to take the RISKS.
- ninjaturtles1, on 12/11/2008, -5/+107TURN ON THE MONEY PRINTING MACHINES!!!!!!!!
- muckemuck, on 12/11/2008, -4/+85And yet you'll vote for the crooks and liars who voted for this. You will. You voted for the crooks and liars who voted for the TARP bailout and you'll do it again in 2010.
Maybe someday you'll learn that the Republicans and Democrats are NOT working for you. - kosser, on 12/11/2008, -5/+80there is no such thing as democrats and republicans....they are two faces on the same coin. Democrats run the senate and the house, and this ***** will pass, republican as president this will pass, obama as president this will pass...stop playing football, you are not going to be on a winning team. the only team we should play for is the people not a political party
- radu79, on 12/11/2008, -5/+75The Democrats have been in power since 2006, and they didn't do jack *****.
No impeachement, no voting against the USA Patriot act expansion, no voting against immunity for AT&T and stuff.
I am not even sure why some people think there is any difference between the Democrats and Republicans, because there is none. - inactive, on 12/11/2008, -0/+61Well, he did vote for the big one (700 billion $)....the largest transfer of wealth in history, so his hands have blood too.
- bixby1, on 12/11/2008, -5/+57I dugg you sideways.
- driverdave, on 12/11/2008, -4/+55awesome. run a ***** company and get billions in handouts.
the CEOs will probably get a bonus. - middlecon, on 12/11/2008, -1/+51Obama will bring MORE bailouts not less if thats the point you are working at. The auto companies will get mroe money with the new pres + bigger majority congress. If you support Obama but are against bailouts you might be a little conflicted.
- WordsnCollision, on 12/11/2008, -2/+45The biggest winner is Cerberus, who now doesn't have to dip into their multi-billion dollar holdings to support Chrysler. Who's the head honcho of Cerberus? Former Treasury secretary, John Snow.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/09/chrysler-cerberus ... - DRT23, on 12/11/2008, -8/+50Wait till it comes to the Senate where the GOPs are...
- inactive, on 12/11/2008, -9/+50what a complete waste of taxpayer dollars. Anyone that says that any of that money will get paid back or it will save jobs are complete idiots and you should remove yourselves from the gene pool and don't come back with that the last couple of bailouts where paid back by the auto industry because that is complete *****. what really happened is that the auto makers spent millions on political donations and lobbyists to renegotiate the bailouts they got so they didn't have to pay it all back and only had to pay less than half of the money that was given to them.
Hey, anybody got any clue on what happened to the $700 Billion in taxpayer dollars given to the wall street banks? How about the $80 Billion given to AIG?
All these useless bailouts are just going to break the taxpayer, devalue the dollar and make inflation outrageous down the road. - or3n, on 12/11/2008, -6/+45BREAKING: By the time you read this, it's no longer BREAKING! :(
- inactive, on 12/11/2008, -7/+42More money down the toilet.
- groo68, on 12/11/2008, -6/+39I don't despise the GOP, I despise the religious and neo-con derivatives that operate under the GOP.
- Frixionburne, on 12/11/2008, -15/+47It's a bit funny, seeing as how the GOP that we so despise is actually trying to rally to make the right choice...
ironic. - inactive, on 12/11/2008, -3/+35I dugg you round and round.
- Antebios, on 12/11/2008, -3/+33Son of a BITCH!
- dexter411, on 12/11/2008, -3/+331) Even the most liberal economists frequently clarify that the war on the terror is not responsible for the sluggish economy.
2) Bitching about what caused a problem, even though you're obviously misinformed, isn't going to solve it.
3) Throwing the money of the American taxpayer at these unprofitable businesses isn't going to solve it. - DRT23, on 12/11/2008, -4/+33I dugg you inside-out.
- brad3378, on 12/11/2008, -5/+34Free Markets - LOL
Can you name just ONE Toyota, Honda, Kia, Hyundai, BMW, or Mercedes factory in the United States that has never received government subsidies / tax breaks?
We always complain about being dependent on foreign Oil, but how come we never complain about being dependent on foreign manufacturing?
Let's be honest with ourselves.
The game is rigged.
I used to work as an Engineer for a small auto parts supplier that made the water shields that go under door trim panels on both Foreign & Domestic vehicles. I dont' really give a ***** about revealing any secrets because the company went out of business about a year ago. Frankly, I saw more corruption from our Japanese Customers than from our Domestic customers. For instance, Honda had us design two parts for their vehicles. One part was designed for the initial product launch. It was designed with an expensive material to absorb road noise. I was explicitly told that this part would be replaced by a cheaper inferior part immediately after the J.D. Power & Associates quality surveys were complete. In other words, if your Honda was built after a certain build date, your car would have the inferior part. It wouldn't be very hard for an investigative reporter to pull the door trim panels off of a pair of Hondas with different build dates to verify my claims, but they would be wasting their time trying the same experiment on domestic vehicles.
My favorite corruption story involves a certain European car company which will remain nameless. I must emphasize that I heard this story from a reliable colleague, but did not witness it first hand. Supposedly the company belonged to a racing league that required racers to use unmodified vehicles directly from the dealership showroom floor. Not even close. Supposedly this company figured out a way to cook the books and discretely deliver a pair of very highly modified vehicles to the dealerships. My source claims that there was not a single component on the car that wasn't modified in one way or another. Supposedly components were reworked by drilling, grinding, etc. to remove weight...but that's the trivial stuff. Imagine a stamping plant resetting their stamping dies to accommodate thinner sheet metal? It sounds trivial, but I promise you that it is not. In fact, I'm told that they even lowered the roof-line. Any hot rodder can tell you that "chop tops" are a major undertaking that involves modifications to the windows, windshield, and lengthening the roof. But my absolute favorite modification involved the Engine Control Computer. Supposedly, these cars had a hidden racing driving mode that gave these cars much more power but the compromise was that these cars could barely hold an idle speed. There was ONLY one way that the racer could access this hidden drive mode, and it involved sneaking a small magnet in their pocket when they entered the vehicle and placing it with the North/South poles propertly aligned to the side of the Engine controller. Without the magnet, the car would run on factory settings. Again, I must emphasize that this particular story was heard second hand, so take it with a grain of salt. However, I know the first story could easily be verified because I was directly involved.
Despite what we are often told, Detroit doesn't need to overcome quality issues. It's not the 1970s anymore.
Detroit's biggest problems are perception and propaganda.
Foreign automakers are using the same propaganda techniques that we used against Japan in World War II.
To prove a point, ask yourself if people would rather own a Pontiac Vibe or a Toyota Matrix. Most people would probably choose the Toyota and get a warm fuzzy feeling before learning that both vehicles are made in the same Factory in California. Perception matters, and if Detroit gets the loan money it needs to stay alive, they need to make winning the propaganda war their #1 priority in order to change perceptions. - 9bpm9, on 12/11/2008, -6/+35The unions are basically raping and pillaging the auto companies for money. These guys get two years in full of their salary when ever they're fired. How the hell are you supposed to compete on a level playing field when you have to shell out a crap load of cash whenever someone is fired?
The unions are the things that need to go, not the auto companies. I'm not saying The Big Three don't have their problems, as they don't even train their employees to do every job in the factory like the auto makers at the foreign car companies learn to do. - soapandfoam, on 12/11/2008, -15/+43Do people actually buy these cars??
my dad had an old Buick Century, circa 1986...
after that he swore nothing but Toyota...
please don't blame my dad for their downfall. - punjab551, on 12/11/2008, -16/+44How many bailouts can we get in before Obama takes office? Seems like a race now.
- Unexploded, on 12/11/2008, -0/+27Step 1: Form or join union or professional organization ala doctors, lawyers etc..
Step 2: Hire lobby group and buy people in congress ala EDS/HP etc...
Sad that it has to come to that, but that's how it works. - mal1964, on 12/11/2008, -1/+27That's like giving a bandage to massive stroke victims
- mreade, on 12/11/2008, -0/+26That's exactly right. The catchcry was "let the market decide!". If the market decides that they fail it's time to move on and create something of value that does work.
Bailing out companies that are going broke doesn't provide value to society. - algaeturd, on 12/11/2008, -2/+27Was there any doubt? After it goes through the senate I guess we can wait to hear about a huge celebration where the Big 3 upper management all take the private jet to southern california to a spa for pedicures and manicures to celebrate all the free money they just stole from Americans.
They think THESE are hard times?
Just wait. I think the resentment of Americans is going to keep ANYONE from buying a car from any of these makers for a LONG, LONG time. - Annihilia, on 12/11/2008, -1/+26Why is it ironic? Because Republicans are the bad guys and Democrats are inherently good? Please.
Open your eyes, politicians on both sides are self-serving. They simply appeal to and manipulate different demographics but serve the same big government control freak agenda. - gallardo, on 12/11/2008, -17/+41GM, Ford, and Chrysler still sell more cars than all the Japanese automakers combined in the United States. Their market shares have also stopped declining. Their products are now pretty much on par with the Asians. Yes their cars sucked in the mid 90s. Get over it. Toyota had the most recalls of '08 -- does that make their cars crap? And the foreign automakers get lots of help from their governments. How is that a level field? Capitalism only works if everyone has the same set of rules. Do you think America should only import things and manufacture nothing? How would that work? Sorry, it isn't viable.
Oh, and if you think unions are the root of the 'problem,' then we only have the government to blame for empowering unions so much over decades past. So I guess government should step up and fix it. - uguysmakemesick, on 12/11/2008, -4/+28a little ironic that we're now holding out hope for a republican senate to squash this bill.
- JerodSlay, on 12/11/2008, -1/+25I say everyone in the country who wants the bail out should:
A. already be driving a US vehicle, and
B. give them the money from their own pockets instead of all the tax payers' - soapandfoam, on 12/11/2008, -1/+25awwww
- inactive, on 12/11/2008, -1/+24This all sounds so naughty. (:
- Pssdoff, on 12/11/2008, -0/+22No... You get nothing, but your children will have to pay for one regardless.
- richmomz, on 12/11/2008, -1/+21"They're goin' as fas' as they cahn capn, the economy canna' take much more o' this!"
- TheSpook, on 12/11/2008, -1/+21> "I'm sure it has nothing to do with the CEO's taking million dollar paychecks"
We're talking about BILLIONS in bailout. I doubt that's all from million-dollar paychecks. Unions + run-of-the-mill vehicles at premium prices killed them, IMO. - algaeturd, on 12/11/2008, -3/+23Sure. A Ford Focus.
But do you really WANT it? - greystill, on 12/11/2008, -1/+20-spanks-
- godspeed843, on 12/11/2008, -2/+20@gallardo
"Toyota had the most recalls of '08 -- does that make their cars crap?"
I kind of think recalls are a good thing. No one is ever going to make a perfect car, if they can admit they made a mistake and are willing to fix it on their own dime that is definitely a good thing.
"Oh, and if you think unions are the root of the 'problem,' then we only have the government to blame for empowering unions so much over decades past. So I guess government should step up and fix it."
Would you clean up crap with crap? I wouldn't. Two mistakes doesn't make anything right.
"Do you think America should only import things and manufacture nothing? How would that work? Sorry, it isn't viable."
You are 25 years late on that argument. Where do you think the parts that make up these american cars are made. I dare you to check your hoses/seats/rims/tires and see where they are made, if you drive an american car that is.
Not only is it viable it has been profitable to corporations. - godspeed843, on 12/11/2008, -4/+21In a football game, the US citizens are like fans that pay $125 per ticket and 20 bucks for parking. And elected officials are like the owners. There is no way we can win on this.
This will pass, if it takes an extra day because someone on the Hill is pretending to be concerned then it takes an extra day.
Resistance is Futile.
PS These car companies will still go out of business in the next five years. - Naieve, on 12/11/2008, -2/+19Just an FYI, Bush was the one in 2003 calling for financial regulations.
Clinton was the one repealing the final vestiges of the Glass Steagall Act.
You know, the one that was put in place after the Depression to stop it from happening again?
Anyways, the truth of the matter is that they are all at fault. The low interest rate loans would not be possible without the aid of the Federal Government. Both aisles made it possible. - rootsm3, on 12/11/2008, -1/+18Bawny Fwank...you did it again.
- Stroggoth, on 12/11/2008, -2/+19I dugg you right round baby like a record baby, right round round round.
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