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555 Comments
- sb66, on 06/01/2009, -31/+257Err what about unions getting $75 an hour for a job a robot can do?
- JQP123, on 06/01/2009, -4/+194Why GM failed, abbreviated version:
1) U.S. management
2) U.S. labor
According to Toyota, the auto industry is about 2 things ---- engineering and manufacturing. All else is secondary.
According to GM, the auto industry is about 2 things --- marketing and finance. All else is secondary.
In other words, GM was focused on "selling" an inferior product. They truly seemed to believe that people would buy anything if they put enough marketing effort behind it. Toyota (and others) were more focused on building a superior product that would sell itself.
Short term versus long term approaches.
The results speak for themselves. - cyrusuncc, on 06/01/2009, -12/+194Look at the cars they have been producing. Not a surprise
- Solkre, on 06/01/2009, -6/+174I see your point, but the robot union is much worse.
Source, Terminator, The Matrix, Etc. - IAMMIGHTY, on 06/01/2009, -42/+196The missed the #1 reasons.. UAW
- solecize, on 06/01/2009, -29/+157***** cars made in America by people getting paid 80 bucks an hour to push a button on a robot, and only care about their jobs when they are about to get fired because the company is about to fail, and instead of taking a pay cut to only twice what the labor is worth they instead kill the dying beast with the last jab of negative cashflow straight to their pensions while simultaneously draining the money from shareholders who no longer have control of their shares and instead fade away without putting their wealth into new companies, doubling the amount of useless cash in the economic system spent on crappy bunt cakes, dildoes, and ***** entertainment from wal-mart?
Or maybe that is just a run-on sentence that doesn't mean anything. Is ***** supposed to be hyphenated? - Cancerkitty, on 06/01/2009, -28/+146Weak management kowtowing to the unions demands on everything cut their profit margins to ribbons. Ignoring innovation certainly didn't help.
- bigstinky, on 06/01/2009, -3/+72My dad was a union man. He made a fair living pushing 40 total years in a factory. He and I both agree that the unions out bargained themselves. The Autos were making cars without homes for years just to keep the lines rolling.
GM went bust, but I like what I see from Ford. The 47 mpg hybrid fusion leads the way. I've owned Ford cars for the last decade. My escort got 267,000 miles before I donated it to charity...Still running. My Focus had 150,000 miles (with nary a problem but for an alternator that died at 90,000.) That car would've hit 250,000 if not for being totaled. - GraceHead, on 06/01/2009, -17/+80don't worry. The government will fix GM in no time, now that they own it.
/s - durruticolumn, on 09/18/2009, -30/+85
To everyone claiming that unions were the problem, I'll remind you that Japan, Germany and Italy have some of the strongest unions man has ever known. They make the UAW look like peanuts.
Stop blaming the UAW, plenty of other car companies were able to stay competitive while taking care of their workers. - shimmyNshake, on 06/01/2009, -11/+63The United Airlines pilots union president once said,
"We don't want to kill the golden goose, we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg."
The UAW operates with this same mentality and it will doom American industry . - pinguz, on 06/01/2009, -1/+49a circle does not have a beginning either, so the statement still holds
</smartass> - jeches, on 06/01/2009, -8/+51"Everything that has a beginning, has an end."
- NSResponder, on 06/01/2009, -6/+48Tesla hasn't made any money yet, and it's not clear that they ever will. There are a plenty of people in the automobile industry who know how to make cars profitably; they're just not in charge at GM.
-jcr - bugwayji, on 06/01/2009, -15/+52...always playing the 'union' destroys thing tune...where do you think the middle class started?...and yet no mention of CEO's still taking Bonus while the ship sinks, ideological problem, hmm?
- Cancerkitty, on 06/01/2009, -9/+45I'm not saying that the unions haven't done good things, but they've taken things too far, and GM's management let them. *****, if I was in the union I'd try to get everything I could too, so I can't say I blame them.
- norman619, on 06/01/2009, -7/+42Chompy:
Sorry but no. One of the big reasons the Japanese automakers are able to build better cars cheaper is automation. Automobile workers unions have turned automation into a dirty word here in the US. I used to work for a Japanese automobile manufacturer. Japanese companies are nowhere nearly as bloated as US automobile companies. In the US automobile manufaturers, at least US companies, are forced to carry a lot of dead weight. Many of the jobs the unions fight to keep can and should be done by robots.They have a high initial investment cost but over time they are much cheaper to employ than people. If US automobile manufacturers are serious about becoming competative they will have to trim down and do what's right for the company regardless of what the press and unions say and think. Companies are there to turn a frofit not to employ people. Employing people is means to make a profit not the ultimate goal. I hear people talk about these jobs as if they are entitled to them. There are going to be less line jobs for people in the near future so people are going to get off their asses and figure out another way they can make a living. Ofcourse GM and the gang had a role to play in their own downfall but unions and their strong arm tactics had a hand in this as well. - Mariokartfever, on 06/01/2009, -2/+36Don't be. Smaller businesses are more versatile and can adapt to change more quickly. A new, more innovative, competitor will rise to fill the whole left by GM (assuming the gov doesn't keep it alive artificially with taxpayer dollars).
- cyrusuncc, on 06/01/2009, -4/+372 performance vehicles are not enough to prop up a company like GM.
- rjey, on 06/01/2009, -17/+49I find it quite amusing unions were not mentioned as a cause of the failure.
Buried for inaccurate. - inactive, on 06/01/2009, -0/+31Whether Darwin is right or wrong, he did say one thing that can be adapted to businesses of every type:
"It is not the strongest species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change." If executives ever wondered if there was a quote worth framing, this is it. - Chompy, on 06/01/2009, -1/+31You're right, it must be the ***** cars that nobody wants to buy.
- DextramPennae, on 06/01/2009, -8/+36Not a very good article. The author makes assertions such as "Failure to innovate" and only explains it with some management theory gobbledegook and no concrete examples. I could easily refute it with a concrete antithesis. Here - "GM did in fact innovate and the Corvette is a leading example. The Corvette is one of the best production sports cars on the planet in almost every metric. And it is far cheaper than the competition."
That pretty much demolishes the author's unsupported assertions. The rest of his arguments were similar in their lack of rigor. The only one I found compelling was his example of their financial reports showing them to be essentially bankrupt since 2006.
Just about any Joe off the street could have written a better article. - JargonScott, on 06/01/2009, -1/+27Smaller businesses are generally way more in tune with their markets. GM is so big that they have departments of departments that don't know what's going on with each other.
For example, we produce a part for a GM division. Since we are a supplier, we go through a giant amount of hoops and red tape to sell to them. It's been a 4 month nightmare just changing where we ship their product out of, as we closed the facility it normally came from. They've sent out auditors to go over the process (which is identical, all equipment was moved) and whatnot. They suggested we hire people on to just track OUR suppliers, hire a person that just maintains all our gaging equipment, etc. We are treated like we're some gigantic supplier for GM.
We sell them 30 things a month, if we're lucky. - inactive, on 06/01/2009, -3/+29"Before we know it, America won't be making textiles anymore" - random 1800's American
- saltytuna, on 06/01/2009, -3/+28ok Neo
- Chompy, on 06/01/2009, -4/+29Seriously. Forget Tesla, GM needs to talk to Honda or Toyota.
- TheOneKen, on 06/01/2009, -0/+25GM owes them money for a health-care fund.
- lordmike, on 06/01/2009, -14/+39Well, this is obviously the wingnut thread, with their hatred of blue collar workers making a living wage... 'cos the American Dream just sucks, don't ya know!
The reason GM failed is 'cos in 1950, instead of pushing for national health care, they said we are going to offer it ourselves. We can expense it, and it won't show on the books... then they said, "Let's give great pensions." We can expense it and it won't show up on the books... They kept kicking the can down the road to the future, and the future is now... it was time to pay uup for all those "future" costs of the past.
Legacy costs is what did in GM, nothing else... - Mship, on 06/01/2009, -8/+32To start let me say that I have already "Googled" it myself. Can any one of the people who keep claiming that the auto-workers in the US make 75 bucks and hour for picking up a screw please link to me any, any, factual article that states that this is a true rate. Please I beg of you.
- iDoc21, on 06/01/2009, -31/+54#6) The UAW
- blue11storm, on 06/01/2009, -5/+28Can someone explain to me why the UAW union is getting 17.5% ownership in GM? Its just me but i thought they were only employees for the company and didn't have an actual stake in it.
- GrodyChamp, on 06/01/2009, -9/+32Did the UAW make that list and intentionally leave themselves off it? They are at LEAST top 3.
- NSResponder, on 06/01/2009, -3/+26" Tesla is way ahead of the times."
Maybe, maybe not. They might be running down a dead end. I'll give them kudos for trying, but the whole idea of private enterprise is that they should take their own risks with their own resources.
-jcr - fmaxwell, on 06/01/2009, -5/+27So it was unions that greenlighted vehicles like the Pontiac Aztec?
It was unions that decided that GM's R&D and marketing should be directed towards Hummers and other trucks rather than towards economical cars?
It was unions that convinced GM that the Chevy Malibu should be so boring and dull looking that it caused customers to fall asleep just from looking at it?
It was unions that made GM release minivans with horrible crash test ratings?
GM is not failing because their cars cost too much; They are failing because they don't have cars that are competitive in many important market segments. There is no GM car the effectively competes with the Honda Civic, none that is competitive in the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry segment. They've got nothing in the Prius and Civic Hybrid arena. There's nothing that they sell that appeals to the Subaru WRX STi and Mistubishi Evo crowd.
But you don't want to listen to reason. You just want to rail against a bunch of hard-working, middle income Americans who might lose their jobs and who have already seen their pay and benefits cut. Because, God knows, we wouldn't want to blame the wealthy people who actually make the decisions. - neoneddy, on 06/01/2009, -8/+29Yes, unions have improved the workplace, but if taken too far, you risk destroying that hand (company) that feeds you.
- inactive, on 06/01/2009, -10/+31Define "strong union".
Are the workers getting paid three or four times the market rate for similarly skilled positions? - RungeKutta, on 06/01/2009, -6/+27Did you even read the article. Or are you ignoring everything but the words "uaw" and "health-care costs". If so, you'll probably also ignore the bit where it said that Toyota manufactures its cars mostly in countries where the government picks up the health-care tab.
- govsucks, on 06/01/2009, -9/+29Yet another person that doesn't understand that the cost of an employee to a company is FAR more than the salary.
- durruticolumn, on 09/18/2009, -9/+28
"Are the workers getting paid three or four times the market rate for similarly skilled positions?"
No, and neither are the UAW. Unless you do some numerical voodoo and count every single possible benefit.
Did you know that Volvo, when it lays off workers, is required to pay for trade retraining and reeducation for the remainder of that worker's life? - inactive, on 06/01/2009, -4/+23Save it for the next tea bag party.
- stk198323, on 06/01/2009, -6/+25@bigfeets
That 14$ ''base wage'' is AFTER everything else is paid: insurance, health care, pension, union, etc. etc (I might or might not be after federal tax, I admit that I don't know)
Getting paid 14$ in your pocket for a job that doesn't require any diploma is pretty damn nice if you ask me! Go talk to the clerk at your local gas bar and see how much he's paid and if the company pays for the health care, insurance and pension fund! - cyrusuncc, on 06/01/2009, -9/+27What about a circle?
- jbird32275, on 06/01/2009, -2/+20I'm driving a 220,000 mile '96 Maxima. It's my second one. I used to buy GM religiously. One day I looked at the quality of my GM and thought "they're not loyal to me why should I be loyal to them?" I bought an old Maxima and I have never looked back - and I appreciate the money I don't spend on parts and the time I don't spend installing them.
That's why they lost me. What about you? - stk198323, on 06/01/2009, -2/+20@Saltyjustice
Both those companies have no unions in there plant due to the fact that they are not American company, check your ''facts'' before you post.
Also one point that hasn't yet been mentioned is the fact that GM has a huge amount of money spent on health care for retired workers. Since Toyota doesn't have even 25% of the retired workers that GM have, this cost them a ***** load less money. Also since Japan has tax funded health care Toyota saves even more! - simbait, on 06/01/2009, -5/+23I am always skeptical when Unions are blamed. Sure sometimes they pull the rope too much but a good union would care of the profitability of a company. On the other hand, the Management is always very eager to put the blame on the Unions, notwithstanding its their job to keep them at check and ultimately it's the management that is in charge.
- McMaster88, on 06/01/2009, -1/+18OH SHI
- HueyFreeman02, on 06/01/2009, -5/+22Why would you use the corvette as an example?
That's the worst example you could think of, because the average family won't spend $40,000 on a C6, they will spend $30,000 on a family sedan or minivan. But when Toyota and Honda and Nissan do all these things better for the same price, what point does a person have in buying a GM product?
Seriously, would you rather have a Chevy Impala, or a Nissan Maxima?
Look at them, and you can tell what the average person with no brand bias would get. - knowitman, on 06/01/2009, -8/+24Chevy Malibu which continues to get better ratings than anything that Toyota or Honda has in the same class? The Cobalt which is very economical and sporty. Buick and Cadillac which are always among the top three manufacturers in overall quality, reliability, and customer satisfaction. I am very surprised.
- ChuckDees, on 06/01/2009, -8/+24Name anyone who makes $75 an hour pushing a button at GM?
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