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A Penny Costs 1.7 Cents to Produce

newyorker.com — Since zinc has soared in value, producing a penny now costs about 1.7 cents. Since the Mint currently manufactures more than seven billion pennies a year and “sells” them to the Federal Reserve at their face value, the Treasury incurs an annual penny deficit of about fifty million dollars—referred to as “negative seigniorage."

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  • SmellyFingers, on 03/31/2008, -141/+4first!
    • jetcombo15, on 03/31/2008, -1/+78We don't do that here.
    • mixxo, on 03/31/2008, -1/+44If by first you are referring to "first douchebag to make a stupid comment" you win!
    • forgiste, on 03/31/2008, -2/+19Nobody gives a damn! Say something clever so the rest of us don't have to.
      • fyngyrz, on 03/31/2008, -2/+2It's ok, because of financial mismanagement and inflation, 1.7 cents is only actually worth .32 cents. So actually, pennies are all good. You just have to stop thinking of pennies in terms of themselves. Think of them in terms of little medallions featuring the guy who gets credit for destroying the south. Whole new ball game, there. Something you can cotton to. Plus, old ones are worth more.
    • dajuggernaut, on 03/31/2008, -2/+21we dont take kindly to your kind...
    • jwkpiano1, on 03/31/2008, -2/+12Fail!
    • insanebrain, on 03/31/2008, -1/+14buried !
    • XiaoJjang, on 03/31/2008, -1/+5gb2 youtube.
  • jmkiii, on 03/31/2008, -11/+150Pennies are stupid.
    • ostracize, on 03/31/2008, -1/+9Hijack:
      On a single page (why even make it an option?)
      http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/31/0803 ...
    • zerhynn, on 03/31/2008, -7/+2Amen.
    • xXIrsotehkewlXx, on 03/31/2008, -7/+4Indeed and this whole discussion makes me kinda twitchy.
      I have an OCD thing where pennies make me want to wash my hands repeatedly.
      I guess they look dirty.
    • LightSpeed4, on 03/31/2008, -17/+5pennies arent stupid. the penny is used more than once, therefore it doesnt matter what it costs to make http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money
      • shortyjacobs, on 03/31/2008, -4/+20That's a stupid argument. Velocity of money has nothing to do with it. They mint a penny for 1.7 cents, and sell it for 1 cent. That is a -0.7 cent profit, (or a 0.7 cent deficit).
        If a drill costs me 50 bucks, and I use it more than once, the damn drill still cost 50 bucks!
        • PhilLesh69, on 04/01/2008, -0/+4It is not a stupid argument at all.

          "selling a penny" is not exactly what goes on. Well, of course, with a private entity regulating our money supply by loaning money to the Federal government, in a way, maybe it is. However, providing an object to represent a value is a service, not a retail operation.

          Imagine the cost to our economy if the lowest denominator of coin was a nickel. That would impact prices, transactions, etc.

          The fact that a penny is used several thousand times, and lasts 30, 40 or 50 or more years representing a value makes it cost effective to spend 1.7 cents to produce a penny. The cost of the object has nothing to do with the value of the object. Nixon did away with that much better way when he decoupled the dollar from gold.
        • PhilLesh69, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1In fact, shortyjacobs, according to your logic, if you buy a drill for $50 and only use it once on a project that earns you less than $50, then of course the value is out of whack.

          However, if you use that $50 drill for 10 jobs that each net you $45 in pay, then of course the value proposition changes, and it is worth spending more on the tool than the income you can get from it per job (or in other words, per transaction.) But by your logic, you would not buy that drill because it costs more than the value of each job it will allow you undertake.
    • 31213121, on 03/31/2008, -1/+42I'm selling pennies for 1.6 cents!!!!

      PM for more info
    • etandrib, on 03/31/2008, -4/+10I don't like pennies but it isn't a good idea to get rid of the currency. An easy example is the stamp. You have to have 1 cent increments to make the currency work correctly. A better solution would be to find a way to create pennies for less than they are worth - right?
      • AlwaysDuggDown, on 03/31/2008, -1/+7LOL when is the last time you bought ONE STAMP with cash?
        • ShadyG, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5I'm trying to remember the last time I sent anything via USPS.
      • Adrianne, on 03/31/2008, -2/+7This conversation just never dies.
        It isn't necessary to make a penny cost less. The mint sells coins to the government. They take a loss on the penny because other coins like the quarter are worth so much more than they cost to make.
        I can't find recent information on it, but in 2004 a quarter cost a little over 7 cents to make.
        In the end the mint profits immensely.
        • shortyjacobs, on 03/31/2008, -4/+1The mint IS the government. You can't profit if you sell something to YOURSELF. Therefore, they don't make a "profit" on the quarter. BUT, the mint buys the raw materials, (the metal), from an outside vendor, so it loses money on the penny.
          • Adrianne, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4Just because it is a government office doesn't mean it doesn't make a profit. Why do you think they make commemorative coins?

            From the mints website.
            "The cost to manufacture a quarter is about 5 cents, providing a profit of approximately 20 cents per coin. United States Mint profits go to the general fund of the U.S. Treasury to help fund U.S. Government operations, reduce the need for new or higher taxes, and reduce the Federal Government's debt."
          • PhilLesh69, on 04/01/2008, -0/+2It doesn't lose money on anything, shortyjacobs.

            You have to stop thinking in the simple terms of making something and selling it.

            The Government provides a service, the printing and minting of currency, in order to provide a representation of value which can be traded for goods and services.

            Yes, if it cost General Motors $20,000 to make a car they could sell for $15,000, they would be out of business. However, the government isn't in the business of making currency for a profit. They are in the business of making currency in order to tax the exchange of that currency for goods and services.

            THE GOVERNMENT WILL SPEND WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PRODUCE A MARKER OF VALUE, IN ORDER TO TAX THE EXCHANGE OF THAT MARKER.

            What if you found out that the $10 chip at a casino cost more than the chip was worth? Would that just blow your mind? (I'm not saying they do, but could you at least understand that if the casinos, in order to protect against counterfeiting, were willing to spend $15 to produce one $10 chip? Each chip is worth more to them than what it costs!!!)
          • shortyjacobs, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1Never thought of it that way. Thanks Phil.
          • shortyjacobs, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1The argument still stands though. Just eliminating the penny doesn't mean there will be fewer exchanges of money, (and therefore fewer chances for the government to tax the exchange of said money). The same amounts of money will still change hands, so the government will still get to tax all that....they just won't have to spend 50 million on pennies each year. (They still have to buy that raw material from a private company).
    • rmxz, on 03/31/2008, -2/+8Pennies could give us a Zinc Standard which is in some ways better than a Gold Standard.

      Gold's rare enough that it's price can be manipulated - which is a bad thing for a currency.

      IMHO the best monetary system ever was the Silver Certificates the US used to do -- both based on something valuable, and hard to manipulate.

      But a Zinc standard based on Pennies would be a heck of a lot better than what we have today.
      • dafragsta, on 03/31/2008, -2/+1Yeah, and where are you going to store your $50,000 live saving at, while it's natural value grows? Any idea how unwieldy a large sum in pennies is? The penny is utterly useless. Call me when the half dollar is worth more than fiddy cent.
      • PhilLesh69, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1We had a Gold AND silver backed currency.
    • nixfu, on 03/31/2008, -3/+14A coin is only useful if it can BUY SOMETING.


      Back when the USA was started you could actually purchase something for a penny...like say a handful of candy for 1C or maybe a pop for 2C....now they are USELESS.


      Unless you can use ONE of them for purchases, then there is no need for them. The only reason they exist today is so we can be fooled into paying $3.99 for something instead of $4.

      I say eliminate ALL CURRENT COINS AND JUST USE DOLLARS...and make 1, 2, and 5 dollar coins...then we can get back to the good ole days when things were easy to pay for...you want a candy bar, then you get 2 for a 1 dollar coin, want a sandwich? thats a 2 dollar coin, etc.
      • aidave, on 03/31/2008, -2/+7Fooled into paying less?
      • mciampa1214, on 03/31/2008, -1/+7I don't even know where to begin annihilating that argument. But suffice it to say it's the dumbest thing I've read all evening.
        • GliTCH82, on 04/01/2008, -1/+4You know what else is pretty stupid? Shooting someone's idea down without explaining why.
      • yugiohdan6, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3Baldinger's Penny Candy in Zelienople, PA sells candy for 1¢ a piece

        http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=B ...
      • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -0/+6I wouldn't go so far as to eliminate all current coins, but I would advocate getting rid of the penny, nickel, and quarter. Keep, the dime, ramp up production on the fifty cent piece, and replace the $1 and $2 bills with coins. Regardless, the penny has got to go. The penny has been our lowest denomination of currency since 1857, when it was worth the equivalent of a quarter today.
      • PhilLesh69, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1So you are saying, we should all be paying for products all rounded up to the nearest dollar??

        Are you ***** retarded?

        Sales taxes in many states are 5%, 6%, etc. Products that are worth 50 cents or even a dollar would need to be rounded up to the nearest dollar. So are you advocating that instead of paying $1.06 for a bottle of water, we should pay $2.00?

        Or the $4 latte you probably are stupid enough to buy should now cost $5, instead of $4.26 (at 6% sales tax)
        • EtherGnat, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1Nobody's going to do away with all our change, but people need to stop perpetuating the idea that if coins are eliminated everything will be rounded up. Every piece of legislation that has been introduced to eliminate coinage requires that purchases be rounded to the nearest denomination, specifically to the nearest nickel (as I haven't seen any legislation that would eliminate the nickel). Sometimes you'll pay a penny or two more with cash, sometimes a penny or two less. It's not a big deal.
      • diggimator, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1I don't think we had pop when our country started...
    • HealthyElijah, on 03/31/2008, -6/+5The Federal Reserve is a Privately Held company. Fact. The Federal Reserve is NOT a government organization. Fact.

      Google it yourself.
      • ProjectGSX, on 03/31/2008, -1/+5Done, and youre only partly right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fed

        "a quasi-public (part private, part government) banking system[1] composed of (1) the presidentially-appointed Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in Washington, D.C.; (2) the Federal Open Market Committee; (3) 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation acting as fiscal agents for the U.S. Treasury, each with its own nine-member board of directors; (4) numerous private U.S. member banks, which subscribe to required amounts of non-transferable stock in their regional Federal Reserve Banks; and (5) various advisory councils."

        So its not a 100% "private" institution.
        • GliTCH82, on 04/01/2008, -0/+3Basically, it's where government and private business meet in an orgy of rape and pillaging of middle and lower class America's meager profits.

          I'm just kidding. But seriously though. Orgy.
        • PhilLesh69, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1When I hear about a bank with it's own board of directors, like in say the 12 regional federal reserve banks, I think of a private corporation.

          Who are the shareholders of those regional banks? NOT THE US TAXPAYER.
    • loopis, on 03/31/2008, -1/+2Agreed. I thrown mine away.
    • springboks, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3Pennies (cents) make dollars!
    • fireburner23, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3The better thing to do is deflate our currency. As inflation continues the penny becomes less and less of a usable part of our currency. I believe the reason why the penny is so hated is exactly because of inflation.
      • diggimator, on 04/01/2008, -0/+2Bad for the economy. When there's a deflation, people spend less and keep their money to themselves because the longer it stays in the bank the more it rises in value.
  • johnnynapalm, on 03/31/2008, -4/+122Why is that penny riding on a sheet of ice shaped like texas?
  • LovelyNeko, on 03/31/2008, -26/+7Blame Bush.
    • LightSpeed4, on 03/31/2008, -10/+3THIS ISNT A PROBLEM

      the penny is used MORE THAN ONCE, ever heard of the VELOCITY OF MONEY?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money
      • shortyjacobs, on 03/31/2008, -3/+4YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
      • ProjectGSX, on 03/31/2008, -1/+6Posting the same thing multiple times doesnt make you right.
    • slvrbullet87, on 03/31/2008, -8/+2The article states the penny cost a penny to make in the 70's, but ***** logic right lets all just hate on Bush

      /second part sarcasm
  • Hitechmods, on 03/31/2008, -8/+15A penny saved is a penny earned
    • angusm, on 03/31/2008, -2/+36You haven't been paying attention. The article tells us that a penny saved is one-point-seven cents earned.
      • ScottyMcBaggs, on 03/31/2008, -0/+7My brain just exploded a little bit.
      • NSMike, on 03/31/2008, -0/+6Especially if you melt them down and sell it as scrap.
    • wire02, on 03/31/2008, -6/+4Well in this case its 1.7 pennies earned
      • itsameericle, on 03/31/2008, -1/+6A penny is a penny.
        • shortyjacobs, on 03/31/2008, -0/+6Who pennies pennies?
          Pennies penny pennies
          Who pennies pennies pennies pennies?
          Pennies penny pennies pennies pennies...
          • alecks, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5Penni penny pennis pennies pennies
          • GliTCH82, on 04/01/2008, -0/+3Penis penis penis penis penis penis... vagina.
    • jcastillo81, on 03/31/2008, -2/+17actually a penny saved is .7 cents lost...
      • PhilLesh69, on 04/01/2008, -2/+1Do you really think that each time you hold a penny that you are losing .7 cents???

        Come on man! Go and get yourself an education! Please!

        That is Hillary Clinton supporters level of stupidity!

        The Government mints coins in order to taxe the trade of those coins for goods and services. Whether it costs a penny, or a dollar to mint that coin, no matter the enumeration, is irrelevant. All that matters is that the government can tax each exchange of that currency.

        Hillary would like her non-college educated supporters to believe that each penny minted is costing the government, soon to bankrupt them. She would love people to believe that the only reason the blue collar and uneducated workers are makeing less is because the penny costs 1.7 cents to make.

        The educated among us don't care. We were taught this ***** in elementary school, and we learned even more about it by attending college.
    • rolf, on 03/31/2008, -0/+11A penny saved.... is not worth very much.
      • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4That's more because of the declining value of the dollar, and not because we use a 1/100 fraction on our currency.
        • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -3/+3Regardless it's not worth very much. Time to do away with it.
          • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -1/+5Instead of the city raising the tax on your purchase 2%, they'll just raise it 5%.

            I'm sure you won't mind. I mean, think of the convenience!
          • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -2/+2You're an idiot. If they do away with the penny they'd still raise the tax by 2%, or 2.375%, or whatever the hell they want to raise it. Rounding (to the nearest nickel, mind you) only affects the total purchase price of cash transactions, and doesn't limit how things may be priced or taxed at all.
    • macman2k, on 03/31/2008, -3/+5A dollar saved is $1.33 earned because you would have to earn $1.33 before taxes to gain the purchasing power of one dollar after taxes.

      Remember that it costs more to produce a penny than just the materials in the penny. If you were to melt down the penny you would not get $0.017 for the raw material.
    • delmar14, on 04/01/2008, -2/+2Who the ***** wants pennies anyways? They waste valuable pocket space which is why I usually throw mine at pigeons.
      • PhilLesh69, on 04/01/2008, -1/+1So you willingly give away 1% of your net worth?

        Did you know that the intelligent people who have some measurable net worth shop around to find a money manager that only charges .5 to 1% of their net worth to manage their money?

        There are managers who place 2% fees, or even 5% fees. Yet the smart people who can retire on 2 or 3 million dollars are the ones who find a manager that only charges 1% of what he manages.

        1% of a dollar has a place.
        • EtherGnat, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1"So you willingly give away 1% of your net worth?"

          People who are bad at math part 12.

          1. My wife and I make $100,000
          2. 1% of that is $1,000
          3. The average cash transaction involves two pennies
          4. We would have to make 50,000 cash transactions a year to get 1,000 in pennies
          5. That's a cash transaction every 10.5 minutes 24/365

          In reality my wife and I average maybe two cash transactions a day. Even including instances where cashiers give you more than four pennies that's well under $20 a year, low enough to be an inconsequential portion of our earnings (00.02%). If the penny were eliminated purchases would be rounded up and down anyway, so you'd come out about the same.
  • sdrawkcabton88, on 03/31/2008, -2/+15Now what am I supposed to get for my thoughts?
    • surKaz, on 03/31/2008, -2/+101.7 cents.. apparently..
      • PhilLesh69, on 04/01/2008, -2/+1No, you are totally wrong.

        1 penny is still worth ONE penny.

        It doesn't matter what it costs to make that penny. The penny is worth 1 cent. Nixon decoupled the dollar from Gold. It makes no difference if a penny costed a dollar to make, it would still be a penny.

    • angusm, on 03/31/2008, -3/+55If they phase out the penny, people will have to offer you a nickel for your thoughts. Which means that the value of your thoughts has increased 500% overnight. Maybe you should make preparations for an IPO, because YourThoughts Inc is clearly taking off.
      • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -2/+1No, he could still charge a penny for his thoughts. People paying with check or credit card would still pay the exact amount. People paying with cash might get screwed, depending on how many thoughts they bought and tax. Honestly though, when is the last time you had a purchase that was under a nickel?
    • Langford, on 03/31/2008, -3/+1You're going to have to start accepting credit cards.
    • surKaz, on 03/31/2008, -3/+2Very soon,... you'll get a penny for your thoughts, but in the end you'll be giving your 2 cents (or worth).. ..
      • PhilLesh69, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1I can't imagine what idiots dugg you down for that one. They must be fox news viewers, or very simple minded ruraltards.

        That was actually the best play of words I've seen in years! a penny for your thoughts. my two cents worth. That is a classic. I'm serious, that was genius!

        Serious GENIUS!
    • petebot, on 03/31/2008, -3/+1A penny for your two cents?
    • CYR1X, on 03/31/2008, -0/+1Sense.
    • loopis, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3+ digg or - digg , a positive digg is worth more then a penny right?
    • ProjectGSX, on 03/31/2008, -0/+2I charge a nickel.
    • emblemparade, on 04/01/2008, -1/+1I'd go for a Chinese fen. American money isn't worth much these days.

      Although, it could be that your thoughts aren't worth that much, too... ;)
  • yojiffyskippy, on 03/31/2008, -4/+23The scrap metal thieves are going to start breaking into houses and stealing penny jars.
  • aris1, on 03/31/2008, -5/+13makes me want to sell mine on fleebay for 1.6 cents
  • supertaliman, on 03/31/2008, -6/+32Anyone could use an extra $50 Mil.....Kill the dam penny it just takes up space
    • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -8/+2While we're at it, let's get rid of the nickel too. Go for a 10-base currency. I mean, it's only a nickel.

      And those dimes? ***** 'em. We can get by with nothing smaller than quarters. They're only worth 1/8 of a Euro anyway (and falling)

      I know! All of the coins are just taking up space. Let's get rid of everything smaller than a dollar....

      Phasing out smaller denominations of currency because of the falling value of your money isn't a good sign.
      • Moose_Head, on 03/31/2008, -2/+9Slippery Slope Fallacy - Please see me after class.
    • mike17032, on 03/31/2008, -3/+2And how many billions would it cost to update all point of sale machines to deal with no pennies? And the backend software?
      • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -1/+2Rounding cash purchases to the nearest nickel should be a single line of code, so not much (no more of a burden than constantly changing tax rates). Barring that you could just train cashiers to--horror of horrors--round purchases to the nearest nickel themselves.
        • PhilLesh69, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1Okay, then you must have forgotten the crazy fears of Y2K.

          You remember that, don't you? While it employed thousands of housewives and displaced textile and industrial workers, to change the code that tracked the year in 2 digits to code that tracked the year in 4 digits. But at the same time the media and politicians were trying to scare us that "y2k" would be the end of the world, we would all die. There were even numb nuts who pulled all of their teeth because they were afraid that there would be no dentists after "y2k".

          I remember an ice storm, where the idiots at 7-11 couldn't sell anything because their cash registers didn't work. Even when I explained to them that they could write down everything, and use a battery powered calculator, they were dumbfounded. They said "but how will the cash register know what we figured out by hand??" They couldn't comprehend that the cash register doesn't need to be used in real time, sometimes you can spend 15 minutes, after the fact, inputting data.
  • sdrawkcabton88, on 03/31/2008, -21/+5now what am I supposed to get for my thoughts?
    • provost, on 03/31/2008, -2/+4dugg down apparently because someone posted the same thing a few posts up.
      • Jumba990, on 03/31/2008, -0/+7Apparently it's the same person
        • sdrawkcabton88, on 03/31/2008, -6/+1giggles
        • surKaz, on 03/31/2008, -4/+1Dude's browser probably got stuck or something.. so tried submitting again..
    • PL3NTY, on 03/31/2008, -1/+2Cancer?
    • ashleegirl, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1Well, we're certainly not going to pay you twice if that's what's going on here.
  • Opiatus, on 03/31/2008, -19/+24Pennies are useless. Get rid of them and just round to the nearest 5 cents.
    • nstanosheck, on 03/31/2008, -5/+10Nickles cost right about 5¢ ti make, and in the next 10 years will cost more than its face value, so we should just drop a decimal place in our money and round everything to the nearest dime. Just have 10¢ and 50¢ coins and drop all the rest.
      • boxoman, on 03/31/2008, -6/+4didn't you read the article? eliminating pennies is a bad idea because it would increase our reliance of nickels. and nickels cost about 10 cents to make...
        • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -1/+6Well hell, let's get rid of the nickels too.
        • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -1/+5How would getting rid of the penny increase our reliance on nickels? Aside from rare instances where five pennies are given as change in place of a nickel, a nickel would be required for exactly the same percentage of cash transactions. I know there are people just itching to digg me down, but get your mouse away from that button!

          For every transaction that would require an extra nickel (ie 13 cents rounded to 15 cents) there would be one that no longer required a nickel (ie 18 cents rounded to 20). Either way, there are 40 possible totals out of 100 that require a nickel. Check it yourself.
          • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -2/+1I knew I'd get dugg down for that. Anybody care to tell he how I'm not 100% correct?
      • logicalnoise, on 03/31/2008, -2/+7RTFA nickels cost 10 cents to make.
        • alecks, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5Then make the nickels out of Zinc....
        • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -3/+1Read my comment above--it doesn't take more nickels if you round transactions to the nearest $0.05.
    • airwalkery2k, on 03/31/2008, -4/+10But I like pennies. How about we make a compromise? We can phase it out. We cut a hole in the middle of the penny so the penny is made out of exactly one cent of material when it is produced. Then as the hole gets larger until the hole makes the penny too thin to be held.
      • TeacherOfHeroes, on 03/31/2008, -0/+11Not going to happen - the copper washer industry has too many lobbyists in washington
      • gooberguy, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4idk why you are getting dugg down, i thought that was brilliant
    • TeacherOfHeroes, on 03/31/2008, -1/+5Why not just hack off a decimal point, and use dimes as the smallest form?
      • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -4/+1We'd pretty much have to phase out the quarter in that instance too. The math would be murder.

        "Can I get 2 and a half dimes for this coin?"
        • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -4/+2Nothing wrong with doing away with the quarter too. It can be replaced by the essentially unused fifty cent piece.
    • puter, on 03/31/2008, -5/+5You can't just round like that. It may seem like nothing when you're at the supermarket, but over billions of transactions that adds up...significantly.

      Unfortunately I think we are stuck with the penny :/
      • puter, on 03/31/2008, -2/+4if you have 1 million transactions that result in the rounding of 1 penny each (not five) then you have 10,000 dollars that are unbalanced. That may go to the client or the company. What if you're a big company that does a huge number of transactions a day, would you like to take that loss? How about a gas station that cannot price their product in 5 cent intervals (and we dont want them to). What about tax, how does a company deal with taxes that may change at any time and they need to price their product so that it rounds to the 5 cents, otherwise they may lose money.

        I think we're stuck with the penny. And before anyone says it; It's the oil industry screwing us, not individual stations.
      • airwalkery2k, on 03/31/2008, -2/+4Just like that 9/10th of a cent at the gas pump adds up over time. You're practically saving 2 cents for every 20 gallons you pump! If you pump up once a week, that's $1.08 a year. You can buy a can of soda. Well, if the dollar by that point isn't even more worthless.
        • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -2/+7That 9/10ths of a cent ***** has to go.
      • sunkist22, on 03/31/2008, -1/+5If we followed countries that already did this, (eliminated the penny) then it would not be individual transactions that would be rounded. It's not eliminating the digit of 1, but eliminating a physical penny when giving change to a customer. Australia did it, and so did New Zealand, last i checked the countries were still standing.
        • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -3/+2Well thanks for your purchase, your change is 19 cents. But since we don't have pennies, you don't mind if I just give you back 15 of that, do you? The tax board would be on our ass if we gave you 20.
          • sunkist22, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3Sorry No, that's now it's designed, you would not give back 19 cents...

            Say your Total came to 19.81 - which would normally mean 19 cents change if you paid with a 20 dollar bill. With the rounding system, because the amount came to eighty-ONE cents, it would round down to 19.80, which means you would get 20cents back. The system does actually round down in certain cases. not just up ALL the time. That way over time you even out, maybe the odd time you are up a few cents or down a few cents.

            That is how it works in every country that has eliminated the penny
          • bjornski, on 04/01/2008, -1/+1And you really think that won't be jockeyed to squeeze the highest amount out of people possible?

            People shoudl fight to preserve the smallest monetary increment possible. As soon as you let go of that lowest multiplier, you ratchet yourself up a notch.

            We can't raise your tax on your purchase 1%, so we'll nick you for 5%.

            KEEP THE PENNY!
          • sunkist22, on 04/01/2008, -1/+1Well, I highly doubt the government will let retailers go all willy nilly with prices. Last I checked, everyone had to follow laws. All I know is that is how the system is suppose to work when the penny is eliminated, and that is how it DOES work in countries that already did it.

            Total amounts are rounded up or down 1 or 2 cents.

            It's very basic math. It's a very simple concept. All the freaking out on this board only goes to show how little people think for themselves
          • puter, on 04/03/2008, -0/+0"Well, I highly doubt the government will let retailers go all willy nilly with prices. Last I checked, everyone had to follow laws. All I know is that is how the system is suppose to work when the penny is eliminated, and that is how it DOES work in countries that already did it."

            Um, the government has no real control over pricing? Companies will definitely price their product to bias the rounding in their favor...and the big companies will make a lot of money on it.
    • macman2k, on 03/31/2008, -1/+2Actually, we have a hard money standard so long as they keep making the coins and selling them to us at the face value. This may be a way to stop inflation... but they will move to plastic coins before they stop printing money.
      • puter, on 03/31/2008, -1/+1That would be great for fuel prices since plastic is made from petroleum :/
    • DrDash, on 03/31/2008, -3/+3Except for one thing, EVERYTHING would round UP. Heck, gas is still 3.299 a gallon and they wont even round up to the next penny.
      • sunkist22, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3No, in the countries that this has been applied, the individual items are not rounded up or down, its the very end total. Gas would stay the same (well, its suppose to - you never know what gas companies would do). If your final total came to 20.00 even, then you pay 20.00. It's a very simple system. But unfortunately a lot of people jump in with knee jerk reactions assuming every single little item will be upped by a few cents to screw everyone. That is now the purpose of eliminating the penny.

        And you do realize the rounding ONLY takes place with physical money, meaning paper, and coins? Not debit, credit or other payments where physical money does not exchange hands.
    • logandurand, on 03/31/2008, -2/+3Or we could make our currency worth something again, so that pennies are actually useful.
  • leontes, on 03/31/2008, -8/+5Wouldn't it be neat if we could get 90% of the wealth just to disappear and make it so a penny equals what ten cents is today? Anyone have any sense of how much money that would be so that a penny could mean something again? It could be done with a whole slew of new dollars, perhaps, replacing the old, except being 90% more valuable.
    • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3I can't tell if you're advocating massive deflation of simply sleight-of-hand in replacing our currency with different denominations. The prior would be devastating to our economy, the latter would accomplish absolutely nothing except for the money lost replacing all our currency.
    • Metasquares, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3I know! Let's call it the dime! :)
  • rdeal1, on 03/31/2008, -5/+52can't say i really feel bad for the mint. what's it cost to make a $10 bill? Three cents?
    • coit, on 03/31/2008, -3/+10Exactly! This keeps coming up and it is the stupidest argument ever.

      If it were an issue, it would be more than made up by the worth differential of all paper currency...
      • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4That so-called profit doesn't come from thin air. The profit is "borrowed" from all the other currency in circulation through inflation. If the government is losing money on the penny it's not going to just tighten its belt. It's either going to print even more currency or make up the difference through taxes. The penny is a waste and annoyance--what costs our government money ultimately costs us money.
    • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -2/+5It costs them that same three cents to make the $20, $50 and $100 bills also.

      They more than make their money up on those, especially since the old ones get destroyed so much faster than coins.

      "These bills are wrinkled! Destroy them and print up another sheet!"
    • mercano, on 03/31/2008, -0/+6Of course, the penny is going to last what, maybe as long as 75 years? I know I have some wheat pennies floating around at home. A $1 bill, which is pretty much the same thing as you $10 or $100 bill, just with a different picture, is going to be lucky to last 18 months, which makes me wonder if it doesn't waste more money with the constant need to reprint the things. It's a shame the $1 coins never seem to catch on.
      • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5The government could save a small fortune by eliminating the dollar bill and using coins exclusively. Dollar bills wear out in 18 months. Coins last approximately 30 years. If you do the math on $1 units in circulation, you realize that we spend hundreds of millions of dollars, per year, extra, just to support the dollar bill.
    • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5The government doesn't make a profit on money that replaces money already in circulation, only on "new" money.
  • RonnyIsRondo, on 03/31/2008, -4/+14Why do we even have those damn things anyway? To fill up the cracks in the couch?
    • orangefly, on 03/31/2008, -1/+7and to stick to my center console....
  • Adambassador, on 03/31/2008, -6/+8And I'm sure the 7/10 of a cent doesn't include the shipping from the U.S. Mint to the Federal Reserve.
    • alecks, on 03/31/2008, -0/+6Won't somebody think of the carbon footprint!?!?!
  • LordSkywalker, on 03/31/2008, -15/+14And this is just one of the many colossally stupid decisions of the Fed. It's time to abolish the Federal Reserve and put Bernanke & Co.'s asses out on the street where they belongs.
    • Piedro85, on 03/31/2008, -4/+8Yes, the financial system will just regulate itself. No really, it will!
  • ybotoby, on 03/31/2008, -4/+59A penny saved is negative seven tenths a penny earned
    • Hangly, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4No, a penny saved is 1.7 cents earned. And hang on to it too, it will probably appreciate.
  • jcims, on 03/31/2008, -5/+4Are there any trace elements in the zinc that could trace it back to molten pennies?

    MWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!
    • shortyjacobs, on 03/31/2008, -1/+5Did you fall down a well whilst laughing or something?
      • Misanthrope, on 03/31/2008, -0/+7That would be more like: MWAAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAH!!

        I think anyway...
        • shortyjacobs, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4I suppose.....I was thinking maybe the "HA" echoes as he falls....
  • Dan11023, on 03/31/2008, -13/+4you know whats *****? pennies! http://youtube.com/watch?v=FffTJk-gFKc
  • Gryffydd, on 03/31/2008, -8/+11Considering the lifetime of a penny, and the number of transactions it'll go through, $0.017 isn't really all that bad.
    • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3If the penny actually accomplished anything worthwhile I would agree with you, but it's just an annoyance. Not only does it cost more to produce than it's worth, but the penny costs business two cents more per cash transaction to deal with, and creates additional delays for those waiting in line. It's a nuisance all the way around, and one we should stop paying for just because we're used to it.
  • disoriented, on 03/31/2008, -8/+35***** pennies. I hate buying things at 1.99 and such, just charge me the 2 dollars be done with it.
    • ePuck, on 03/31/2008, -5/+21lol, apparently you've never lived in a state with sales tax
      • TeacherOfHeroes, on 03/31/2008, -4/+16Even with sales taxes, stores can adjust their prices so that *with* tax, the price works out to something nice and even. They just don't.
        • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -4/+2"Sorry, we can't charge you 7% tax anymore with no small coins. We'll just have to raise your tax to 10%. I'm sure you understand."
          • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -3/+3Why? They have no trouble charing me 7.125% now.
          • bjornski, on 04/01/2008, -1/+1And your $5.02 lunch would cost you what? $5.05.

            I'm sure you won't mind being screwed if it's imperceptible. You've basically said so yourself.
          • sunkist22, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1@bjornski: No, in that case your lunch is reduced to 5 even. Would you like me to explain it again? If something like this *were* to be passed, there would be rules that *everyone* has to follow. It's not going to be wild anarchy. And your tax percentage is NOT changed, I will repeat NOT. Because you can never ever guarantee the final amount will be exact to the nickel. Rounding is only done AFTER tax is added.

            to figure out what you would pay follow these steps:

            * Are you paying with physical cash (Meaning paper and metal)? No? Ok, stop here,
            * Does your FINAL total after tax end with a 0 or 5? Yes? Ok, stop here
            * Does your FINAL total after tax end with a 1 or 6? Yes? Subtract 1 cent, pay that, stop here
            * Does your FINAL total after tax end with a 2 or 7? Yes? Subtract 2 cents, pay that, stop here
            * Does your FINAL total after tax end with a 3 or 8? Yes? Add 2 cents, pay that, stop here
            * Does your FINAL total after tax end with a 4 or 9? Yes? Add 1 cent , pay that stop

            Simple! Even children can understand this. Over time you will pay a cent or so here, get a cent or so reduced over there, and could be close to breaking even. If you are going to freak over a few cents over the course of a year, remove tinfoil hat and try again.
      • MScrip, on 03/31/2008, -1/+8I was in Austria in 1997, before they got the Euro. Their money was the Shilling... and if you ordered a meal that was 65 Shillings, and a drink that was 5 Shillings... you gave them 70 Shillings and were done with it. Tax was built in. So, if that country can figure out... maybe the US can too.
        • TeacherOfHeroes, on 03/31/2008, -0/+7There is a trade off to building taxes in, in that taxes become 'hidden', and it removes an element of public transparency from everyday transactions, and lowers public awareness of government taxes.
          • FKnight, on 03/31/2008, -3/+4Yeah, because we all know that it's completely 100% physically impossible to print : "Price: $1.50 + Tax $0.75" on a sticker.
          • Zman0101, on 03/31/2008, -1/+5Not impossible, just the overhead would be too expensive to do so. Each company have to calculate the tax for each item up front and post a sign, and taxes are different for each state in the US, plus they change. The overhead increase would be passed onto the consumer
          • Gryffydd, on 03/31/2008, -0/+6@Zman
            Actually, the the sales tax in effect at any given time is determined by the county and city as well. So the same store 5 miles away could have different tax rates.
          • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -1/+5Physically impossible? Of course not. Likely that anybody would actually do that? Not really. There are already incorporated taxes in every day items we buy (gas, cigarettes, etc) but I rarely see prices listed that way.
        • godplaysdnd, on 03/31/2008, -4/+0It also makes things "seem" cheaper.
    • orangefly, on 03/31/2008, -0/+32i've always thought that total price including sales tax should be on the price tag....
      • boxoman, on 03/31/2008, -1/+7i agree with you, but the problem is that stores don't want to be accountable for high taxes, you see the prices increase but the merchant may not have increased the price. It is sometimes good to show sales tax separate to show how the govt. is screwing us. but i guess they could put it on the price tag and then separate it out on the receipt.
      • sunkist22, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4They do THAT too in Australia, as well as no penny. All taxes are inclusive.
        • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4That would be great. But my city charges a different tax rate than the one next to us. And my county charges a different rate than the counties next to us. The logistics are just way too messy in the US model to do something like that.
        • sunkist22, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4Yep, the US system would be tricky to implement inclusive taxes... too many to consider.
      • Zman0101, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4Good in theory, but think about it this way. It would increase the overhead of businesses to manage the "total cost" of an item specific to each state, print signs, manage the information in a database, etc. It gets especially complicated for franchises such as best buy to manage this information when they operate in more than one state. This cost would ultimately be passed onto you. Is the convenience worth the extra cost to you?
        • sunkist22, on 03/31/2008, -1/+2the cost of each item does NOT have to be maintained. a lot of people probably use credit cards for larger items, the no penny thing would not even apply in those cases. the no penny rule would only happen if physical paper cash was used. and only on the end total, not on individual items
          • Zman0101, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3What about signs?
          • sunkist22, on 03/31/2008, -1/+2Would this not be something applied across the country? And would be the government's responsibility? I would assume they would have commercials, newspaper ads, and make signs. So... what is better, signs now, or continually lose money over time?
          • Zman0101, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4after re-reading your comment, I think you misunderstood the context of my reply. I was talking about including the sales tax and labeling each item on the shelf with the tax included. I agree wholeheartedly that Penny's are useless.

            To illustrate my point further, if you are comparing the sales tax of an item in Wisconsin versus Illinois, where the sales tax is different, Best Buy would have to print a different sign for Wisconsin and Illinois for each item and post it on the shelf. So, you'd need a system to calculate this up front and print a different sign for each state. That's where the overhead to the business increases, which is passed onto the consumer.
          • sunkist22, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4Ah! I see your point.
            Yes, if taxes were included, that would mean a lot of relabeling. For the USA, inclusive taxes might not be very practical. I know Australia has inclusive taxes, but maybe they have one universal tax to make it easier. Its handy however when you're looking at a menu or prices on a shelf. But i would imagine it being a very bumpy road if the US was to do it now.
          • Zman0101, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4Ya. That would require a complete overhaul of our tax system, for which I think we are long overdue anyways :)
    • skipdog172, on 03/31/2008, -2/+5Most places would allow you to just pay the $2 then you can scream "KEEP THE CHANGE!!". It works I swear, try it !
    • phenolholic, on 03/31/2008, -0/+7yes but then you won't be brainwashed into thinking you're saving from moms and pops who sells it at $2 flat
    • tas08, on 03/31/2008, -3/+2Not to be a pest but sales tax (at 6.5%) means $1.99 = $2.12 and $2.00 = $2.13, so sadly that $2 bill I have stored safely on my bookshelf would be of no use here.
  • dantidote, on 03/31/2008, -13/+3Pennies are *****
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FffTJk-gFKc
  • mpdickso, on 03/31/2008, -15/+10Get rid of the penny...nickel and dime. Honestly who uses them. 25c as the smallest denomination would work fine.
    • Raphyy, on 03/31/2008, -6/+2Agreed.
    • nstanosheck, on 03/31/2008, -0/+8Nah, just change the system to one decimal place rather than two and have only dimes and fifty-cent pieces. I believe both Australia and China do this now for their coinage.
    • ShyGuy91284, on 03/31/2008, -1/+5With the way things are going the penny may soon be a nickel in terms of it's physical value....
      • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3The penny was worth almost a quarter when the half cent was eliminated in 1857.
    • uiguy3, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3Hey, I want my one cent Tootsie Roll.
  • Digglits, on 03/31/2008, -10/+7God pennies are so useless!!!!
    • Dokument, on 03/31/2008, -1/+14regular ones are also.
      • AnarkeIncarnate, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4But now much would you pay for a Flying Spaghetti Monster penny?
    • Gryffydd, on 03/31/2008, -0/+6Maybe, but commas are worth their weight in gold.
  • LightSpeed4, on 03/31/2008, -2/+11In 2009 the cent will get a one-year, four-coin commemorative program marking the 100th anniversary of Lincoln being placed on the cent, and the 200th anniversary of his birth. Thus, 2008 will be the 49th anniversary, and last year that the Lincoln Memorial will be on the U.S penny. This redesign was passed as part of the Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005, which also mandates that in 2009, numismatic cents will be issued for collectors that have the metallic copper content of cents minted in 1909. In 2010, the cent will be completely redesigned, with a new, permanent design being released into circulation. The redesign should show Lincoln's preservation of the country in the Civil War. Lincoln, however, will remain on the coin. The composition for circulating issues will be copper-plated zinc.
    • phenolholic, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5this is what years of coin collecting amounts to. useless trivia
  • Teck64, on 03/31/2008, -5/+10You idiots, why would you rather pay more ?
    • nominalgeek, on 03/31/2008, -6/+1Because they'll never have any real money and will continue waste what they have.
    • HalfGiraffe, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4Uhmmm. Maybe because (according to the article) there's no evidence that prices would rise.
      • nominalgeek, on 03/31/2008, -2/+0I think he meant, why would people rather pay more, as to avoid the need for .01 denominations.
        • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -0/+2Only one third of transactions involve cash. Only 80% of those involve a penny. If you were to eliminate the penny, almost exactly half of all transactions would round up, and half down.

          You're already typing "But stores would make their prices so they always rounded in their favor and screw us!". They might try, but it's ridiculously hard to beat the odds significantly when you factor in taxes that change from county to county and the sheer number of permutations of what people can purchase (rounding would only be done on the final total).
  • ayeroxor, on 03/31/2008, -5/+13"Since the Mint currently manufactures more than seven billion pennies a year and “sells” them to the Federal Reserve at their face value, the Treasury incurs an annual penny deficit of about fifty million dollars—referred to as “negative seigniorage."

    How can it be so EASY to completely forget all the profit they make on EVERY OTHER COIN AND BILL!
    • shortyjacobs, on 03/31/2008, -1/+6But that "profit" is funny money, because they make the money and sell it to themselves......the negative seigniorage is actually a loss, because they have to buy the raw materials for the penny from an outside, (read: private), contractor. Therefore, they can still save 50 million by eliminating the penny, (if they also eliminate the nickel so that argument doesn't crop up)
    • Adamlite, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3Profit? Fail.
  • doyoulikeworms, on 03/31/2008, -0/+8A penny minted between 1909 and 1982 is worth $0.025 in copper.
  • algorhythmix, on 03/31/2008, -4/+2Then how am I gonna buy that junk for only $9.99 ??
    • mediaspree, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4Charge it!
    • godplaysdnd, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5+tax?
    • sunkist22, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4use debit, credit card, check, or other, or buy something else to add to the bill that will end up making the total like 15.55 or something.
    • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -0/+2Your total purchase price would be rounded to the nearest nickel assuming you were paying cash. If you were paying with credit, debit, or check your transaction would go exactly as it does now.
  • LightSpeed4, on 03/31/2008, -19/+11THIS ISNT A PROBLEM

    the penny is used MORE THAN ONCE, ever heard of the VELOCITY OF MONEY?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money
    • bluesatin, on 03/31/2008, -3/+0Your point being? o.O
    • orangefly, on 03/31/2008, -1/+7stop it....*shakes fist*
    • shortyjacobs, on 03/31/2008, -4/+10Since you insist on reposting the same damn comment, I insist on reposting my same damn response:
      That's a stupid argument. Velocity of money has nothing to do with it. They mint a penny for 1.7 cents, and sell it for 1 cent. That is a -0.7 cent profit, (or a 0.7 cent deficit).

      If a drill costs me 50 bucks, and I use it more than once, the damn drill still cost 50 bucks!
    • Gudeldar, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5It doesn't matter how many times a penny is used, or even how much the US Mint is losing making making pennies. The problem will come when the value of pennies gets so high that it is economical to melt down pennies in bulk, I believe the same thing happened to silver dollars.
      • glory, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3indeed. that's why it's forbidden by law to melt down pennies for profit.
    • Adamlite, on 03/31/2008, -7/+3Dugg you up, don't know if it'll stop the uninformed though.
    • soupnrc, on 03/31/2008, -4/+3I can't decide if I want to digg you up for being smarter than most of these goons or bury you for making me read about math.
  • Daamien, on 03/31/2008, -2/+27To those who advocate getting rid of pennies because they are useless, you should redirect your frustration towards inflation, because pennies were once and ideally should have remained useful.
    • Adamlite, on 03/31/2008, -6/+3Inflation is not inherently bad. It drives economic growth but does have to be managed (or you end up like Zimbabwe, where a loaf of bread costs $5,000,000+ and inflation is at 100,000%). If currency did not grow in value over time (i.e. a nickel could still buy you a soda), the global economy would pass us by.
      • Daamien, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4Inflation is never "managed", it is simply off-set. Wages need to grow at a rate that is proportional to inflation. Otherwise, purchasing power is eroded. Furthermore, your argument ignores the impact on those who save and invest their money rather than continuously consume. Inflation doesn't make a good economy, fundamentals based on increased productivity do.
      • JordanTW90, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3If inflation created wealth, counterfeiting would be legal.
    • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5I can be frustrated with inflation AND want to get rid of the penny. Regardless of the cause, the penny is still a worthless coin.
  • SkullWolf, on 03/31/2008, -4/+12Who cares, you can print a $100 for only a few cents or something. This is a non-story.
    • nominalgeek, on 03/31/2008, -6/+4You sir must be drunk.
      • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -1/+2And you apparently don't know the windfall profits for printing paper money. It costs them almost nothing to print up the money that they sell themselves to "rent" to the government and banks.
    • sphigel, on 03/31/2008, -2/+8How does that make this a non story. The price of a $100 bill is completely irrelevant here.
      • AnarkeIncarnate, on 03/31/2008, -2/+3It is relevant in the way that HP can afford to sell printers that cost $X + $Y r&d and sell them for $X-$Z. The profit on the toner/ink offsets the loss. They make money HERE so they can lose money THERE and still come out ahead.
        • Myonosken, on 03/31/2008, -3/+1No they make no money on the bills as they "sell" it to themselves. The loss is real because they are having to pay for the raw materials.
        • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -3/+1And if the government makes less profit on money do you reckon they'll just spend less? NO, which means that ultimately that lost money is going to come from the taxpayers.
  • paker, on 03/31/2008, -4/+3With the price of copper soaring keep your pennies and sell them by the pound.
    • Langford, on 03/31/2008, -2/+1They stopped using copper in 1982.
      • Gudeldar, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4Thats not entirely true, the coins are just have a copper plating on top of a zinc core now. They are 97.5% zinc and 2.5% copper.
  • Jo9100, on 03/31/2008, -9/+3Nobody likes pennies
  • joeycerone, on 03/31/2008, -21/+7Digg me if you hate pennies!
  • Goallie11, on 03/31/2008, -11/+6Pennies have always cost more to make then they are worth, this isn't new.
  • provost, on 03/31/2008, -5/+2I didnt realize that the point of printing money was to make a profit doing so. They are talking about phasing out pennies because of this.
    • sphigel, on 03/31/2008, -0/+2I think you're missing the point. The key is that since a penny is worth less than the materials in it then you will have people melting it down and selling the raw metals.
  • str1fe, on 03/31/2008, -4/+5Last I heard is was 1.2, then someone told me it was 1.8 a few months later. It's still dumb though, if it takes more than one cent to make one cent, why bother?
    • mike17032, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3Because we dont make coins to make a profit, we make them to allow people to exchange money,

      And because getting rid of it would cost us hundreds of billions.
      • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4"And because getting rid of it would cost us hundreds of billions."

        *****. Let's see you back that up, and make sure any analysis includes proper rounding and the time businesses and consumers waste counting and dealing with pennies (the average cash transaction costs business $0.02 more due to pennies, for example).
  • VitriolAndAngst, on 03/31/2008, -4/+2Well, as far as the usual "subsidy" of a private corporation -- .7 Billion $ is kind of cheap. That's why we have private corporations doing work for our government without bids -- so that we can spend more money and have things like Social Security get blamed. The Federal Reserve isn't doing its job until it can get pennies at half face value. They really are behind Exxon and Haliburton -- maybe someone needs to hire a consultant at cost plus to tell them how this gig works.
  • SkippyDoorknob, on 03/31/2008, -2/+7Just switch to aluminum. Many countries have aluminum or other cheap metal coins.
  • republicker, on 03/31/2008, -6/+1buy gold, you wont be sorry
  • jzuska, on 03/31/2008, -4/+2Why are we still making them! I throw them out the car window.
    • mediaspree, on 03/31/2008, -2/+2I reporting you to the litter police.
    • glory, on 03/31/2008, -0/+7instead of throwing it out of the car window, just dump your change in a pot every time you have some. By the end of the year you'll have a hundred bucks or more.
      • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3The average cash transaction involves two pennies (0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 pennies per transaction, distributed evenly). To have $100 by the end of the year you would have to perform 5,000 transactions, or about 13.7 cash transactions per day. If you have one cash transaction per day you're talking $7.30 per year.
        • glory, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1Yes. That's why I said 'change'. This includes nickels, dimes, and quarters.
    • FKnight, on 03/31/2008, -1/+7@glory
      Yeah, no *****. I don't get the whole "people throw pennies away" thing. That's the stupidest attitude I've ever heard. I save about $200/year in pennies just throwing them in a jar. Then I pour them into the machine at the bank and it gets added to my account.
    • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -2/+5Thanks! I pick them up. Last time I brought my jar of pennies in, it was worth $72.50.

      Keep throwing 'em!
      • EtherGnat, on 03/31/2008, -4/+2Calculate how long it takes you to pick one up. Assuming it takes an average total of three seconds per coin to pick them up and redeem them (an optimistic estimate I think) that makes your time worth $12/hr. Not totally worthless, but I bet there are more productive ways you could be spending your time.
        • bjornski, on 04/01/2008, -2/+2To me, bending down for half second to pick them up is a profit for me. I dont' do it full time. With as many idiots that throw away pennies as there are, it's just free money to me.

          Again, I don't do it full time. It's just an extra $50-$100 each time I cash them in. All for .5 second at a time. (plus my pocket change)

          Free money. woot!
      • sunkist22, on 04/01/2008, -1/+3You turned in 7,250 rolled pennies?
        Even if you managed to find 5 pennies a day every day of the year it would take you almost 20 years to find that many.

        Since you're bad at math I will demonstrate:

        $72.50 = 7250 pennies
        7250 pennies / 365 days in a year = 19.9 years

        I smell bull crap
        • EtherGnat, on 04/01/2008, -1/+2Um, if you're going to claim people are bad at math you ought to double check your work. You forgot to divide by five.
        • sunkist22, on 04/01/2008, -1/+1Why on earth would I divide by 5?
        • sunkist22, on 04/01/2008, -1/+3My bad , sorry,
          friggen ear infection is affecting some of my brain :)

          7250 pennies / 365 days a year / 5 pennies a day = 4 years
          • EtherGnat, on 04/02/2008, -1/+2No problem. I dugg your comment up before I realized your mistake. You dugg me down before you realized it, we're even. ;)
  • Raphyy, on 03/31/2008, -7/+2Who cares about pennies...most stores that you go to and your short on 5 cents they'll let you go anyways. The lowest amount should be .25c
    • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -2/+1***** that!
    • amtrakattack, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5If one cent is useless, how could 1/4 of that be any more useful? Or did you mean $0.25 ?
  • PerroLoco, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4What is that in Canadian pennies?
  • mal1964, on 03/31/2008, -4/+11.7 cents, Pennies are bad enough can we just call it 2 cents or a nickel?
  • zephc, on 03/31/2008, -2/+8"Ass nickles" isn't as funny as "ass pennies" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT7UyPuwlbI
  • Langford, on 03/31/2008, -3/+1In this day and age, maybe we should have been considering plastic coinage. Not just for pennies, for everything. If cotton paper is good enough for big amounts, plastic should more than good enough for our loose change.
    • wastedfish, on 03/31/2008, -2/+1There are many reasons this wouldn't work just due to the nature of plastic vs metal.
      • MiDri, on 03/31/2008, -2/+1Ya, change like pennies, dimes, nickels, and quarters make great fuse replacements!
    • richiewrt, on 03/31/2008, -2/+6Aren't plastics a petroleum product? And aren't we trying to move away from oil dependency and not more towards it?
      • FKnight, on 03/31/2008, -2/+2Why was this comment being buried? If all coins were made out of plastic, we sure as ***** will be dependent on oil way the hell more than we are now.
    • glory, on 03/31/2008, -1/+2Plastic money is already being used with great success in Mexico and 22 other countries.
      http://www.slate.com/id/2111749/
    • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -2/+2If we made them out of plastic, just in the era of George Bush's administration (relative to the cost of oil) the cost of "minting" those coins would have gone up 500%.

      Not a good alternative.
    • FKnight, on 03/31/2008, -1/+5I'd love to know who the assnugget is who's burying all of the comments about plastic coins being bad. Whoever it is -- you ARE aware that plastic is made from OIL right?
  • jcastillo81, on 03/31/2008, -3/+11Pennies weren't useless at one time... you could buy bubblegum and other candy, for 2 pennies you could watch a short movie, for 3 you could get the Sunday paper. It's the federal reserve that's useless!
    • wastedfish, on 03/31/2008, -6/+1Inflation is part of a healthy growing economy, not referencing our own, but inflation isn't BAD.
      • KingGorilla, on 03/31/2008, -0/+2a little is fine but a lot is not
      • rolf, on 03/31/2008, -1/+6There was hardly any inflation from 1796 to 1913 in the US. $5 in 1800 money was worth $5.20 in 1913 dollars.
      • jcastillo81, on 03/31/2008, -2/+5The US Dollar is worth about 3% of what it was before the Federal Reserve... that's good how?
      • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -0/+2Well then Zimbabwe must be growing like crazy! Boy, I wish our economy was like theirs!

        Oh wait.....
      • shig, on 04/01/2008, -0/+2A small inflation average CAN be good in a free market economy, but we're averaging more than 10% in a controlled economy which is just theft.
    • AxeSwinger, on 03/31/2008, -5/+1Thats funny, most who blame the fed for our woes decry fiat currency as well. And here we have a currency backed by a hard value and you still complain. Do you understand economics or just understand Alex Jones?
      • mOdQuArK, on 03/31/2008, -2/+2The coins are just being used as an alternative form of fiat currency. That's why their face value has dropped below their intrinsic value. If we WERE using the coins as a form of commodity currency, then their face value would always represent their instrinsic value.

        Do YOU understand economics, or do you just pretend you do?
        • AxeSwinger, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Why yes I do. If you have a backed currency it's backed by a certain amount of a material with an intrinsic value. That value changes daily and is also subject to market fluctuations $1 of gold is not always the same because the value of gold changes. This is occurring with our current coins however it's value is not deflating it's actually inflating given time we would see a greater demand for coinage over paper currencies, ceteris paribus. The money is worth more to whoever wants to exploit that fact making it a, commodity currency. Sure that exploitation might be in the black markets but it still exists and markets, black or not, do influence main street prices and demand.
  • TheAfterpipe, on 03/31/2008, -3/+7Excuse me as I start melting down my pennies.
    • synthpop, on 03/31/2008, -2/+10they passed a law a few years ago making that illegal. enjoy federal prison.
    • MrViklund, on 03/31/2008, -4/+2First I read penises.
      • bjornski, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3Either your reading comprehension skills are really bad, or you just think about penises too much.

        And you seem to be able to read.
    • phenolholic, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3the amount of heat and concentrated acids/bases needed, plus the specialized utensils/apparatus to house those solvents will make eat your $.007 profit
    • koft, on 03/31/2008, -0/+2You'll be caught easily, unless you are really good at purifying your copper.
  • Vennem, on 03/31/2008, -0/+0I want some cardboard pennies...then you'll be extra careful to check your pockets before washing your pants.
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