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$4 Trillion Dollars Down the Drain: Can Wall Street Recover?

techcrunch.com — Can't wrap your head around this much lost money? Check out the charts and numbers in this article.

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  • leerayIG88, on 09/16/2008, -7/+21I think we can. We just need to create a brand new system for money. Oh...I dunno.. maybe like.. One dollar will be the new $100 dollars? Or we could start another WW3 with a country and win.
    • Pitofdoom, on 09/17/2008, -2/+27Welcome to the NWO, like it or die !
      • toyrifle1, on 09/17/2008, -7/+0or move
      • SSPink, on 09/18/2008, -0/+9@toyrifle1

        You understand what the 'W' stands for, right?
      • Pitofdoom, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1 W= What planet should I choose ?
      • toyrifle1, on 09/18/2008, -0/+0"walker" right?

        ...oh wait, that "W", I though it was "new world" like in "THE new world" aka America.
        (no no, I know what it is, but moving could still be a possibility, like to Montana or North Korea...)
    • sockpuppets, on 09/17/2008, -0/+11I think you mean $100 is the new $1.
    • Zorf, on 09/17/2008, -1/+2idiot. ww3 would destroy the world. it would last, at most, an hour
      • tm13lke, on 09/17/2008, -2/+7why? because as soon as countries hear world war 3 they immediately say "LETS DROP THE NUKES! ALL OF 'EM!!"?
      • impedance101, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1ya ..pretty much
      • pfhayter, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1I think MAD would curtail that to a very large degree. A third world war, while running the risk of going nuclear, would remain a largely modern conventional.

        IMHO
    • blapierre, on 09/18/2008, -0/+8Market capitalization is not cash. There is no way that $4 trillion in market capitalization can ever be converted into cash because as soon as people start converting (selling their stocks) the price will go down, which is exactly what happened. Lots of people wanted to convert their stocks to cash for various reasons and prices collapsed. Just because you have 10,000 shares of company X and the last trade happened at $5 does NOT mean that you have $50,000. It means you have 10,000 shares of company X. Only when you sell those shares to someone for $5/share do you have $50,000.
    • Paraplegic, on 09/18/2008, -5/+5***** you my friend died in WW3.
      • mvlazysusan, on 09/18/2008, -3/+1what are you a troll
        ***** you,,,,,,( Paraplegic died trolling dig)
    • RPliberty, on 09/18/2008, -4/+4What you need rather than another war is Ron Paul and a conversion to gold and silver. He saw this coming 30 years ago and that's why he entered politics. For your financial salvation - http://www.house.gov/paul/index.shtml
      • fuzzmeister, on 09/18/2008, -0/+4There are reasons the entire world moved away from the gold standard, you know.
      • mvlazysusan, on 09/18/2008, -1/+3yeah to cheat you:
        you don't need all that gold
        just fair competition.......... :>}
      • Pitofdoom, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1There simply is NOT enough gold on the planet
        in order for one to steal multi-trillions.

        I have the actual numbers some where,
        if you tittle me I might get excited...
    • YumYumKittyLoaf, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2More like 100$ = 1 Amero
    • sanman, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1Can 1 digg then become 100 diggs?

      Ohh, so that's how stories reach the front page...
  • edstate, on 09/17/2008, -4/+30Banks create some of their own money anyway (fractional reserve interest)... let's just make sure as much of this as possible is THEIR money that's going bye-bye.

    ***** assholes.
  • bsmeteronhigh2, on 09/17/2008, -0/+56Note to self: Invest in wheelbarrows. They'll need 'em to transport the devalued dollars.
    • sockpuppets, on 09/17/2008, -2/+14Also handy for the upcoming zombie apocalypse.
    • rmeddy, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2But i'll have to steal one i can't afford it.
    • dabura, on 09/17/2008, -3/+3pretty good at handling Mac Fan Boys too.
    • nitrojunky24, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1I new there was a reason a bought an suv! so I can cart the money around to pay for the gas for it that is it right....
  • jmaica26, on 09/17/2008, -1/+6That's quite a big downfall.
    • jabberwolff, on 09/17/2008, -4/+3oh whats 4 trillion when we have BILLIONS!!!

      ....oh wait!?

      It's ok, once Obama gets in office and decides to raise capital gains taxes, it wont be worth anything.
      You aint seen nothin yet!
  • damack, on 09/17/2008, -17/+24It's funny how practically nobody understands just how serious this situation is.

    Everybody compares it to the great depression and thinks the economy will just rebound. When you look at the facts this situation is so bad there is going to be no rebound it's going to be a collapse and a collapse that won't be recovered from. This really is the end of America.
    • Pitofdoom, on 09/17/2008, -4/+17The great depression will look like a birthday party !
    • TCSavant, on 09/17/2008, -18/+7Makes one wonder why in the world Obama would want to raise taxes at a time like this.
      • SmartfulDodger, on 09/17/2008, -3/+13Um, because we're broke and need the money?
      • DigitusAnonymus, on 09/17/2008, -1/+4Wow...
      • pullablank, on 09/17/2008, -1/+6Pretty sure the economic situation is a little more complicated than just "raise the taxes" as a fix.
      • minorthreat, on 09/17/2008, -0/+5this is how McCain gets his votes...
      • mvlazysusan, on 09/18/2008, -0/+280% population reduction .....
        Q: how to get there from here?
        A:starvation!!!!!
    • borez, on 09/17/2008, -6/+11Don't know why you're getting dugg down, it's pretty damn obvious to me.
    • foolfoolz, on 09/17/2008, -7/+23cheer up emo kid
    • 4NDr01D, on 09/17/2008, -1/+5with every opportunity, there is a place to prosper

      go invent something

      and stop complaining about things you can't control
    • KMartSheriff, on 09/18/2008, -4/+10Oh please. Yes, this is bad. But the end of America? *****. Could you be any more of a sensationalist? All this will (if it hasn't already) knock us down a few pegs, but we really need/deserve it.
      • yaddayaddayoda, on 09/18/2008, -1/+8No, it's not the end of America.





        It's the end of America as a superpower.
      • sanman, on 09/18/2008, -1/+2don't worry, America can still be a superdebtor
    • mooseontheloose, on 09/18/2008, -5/+5Why on earth would anyone digg you up? Christ, go talk to your grandparents about what a real depression is. We're not even in a recession. This generation really is a bunch of spoiled whiny brats. Including myself.
      • sanman, on 09/18/2008, -1/+3young'un,
        when I was your age, we had to fetch a shovel and go outside, when we wanted to digg something

        and we didn't have no information superhighway to travel on
        we hadta walk to the newstand to get our news
        and it was uphill - both ways

    • illman00, on 09/18/2008, -1/+6If you could predict the market as well as you say you can...you wouldn't be sitting on digg making comments
    • rheaume, on 09/18/2008, -1/+2Maybe it needs to end
  • dalesangelsinc, on 09/17/2008, -5/+52When most see loss and decline, I see a correction in over inflated markets and room for growth.
    • PolishLogic, on 09/17/2008, -4/+6dugg
    • avataros, on 09/18/2008, -0/+5Absolutely. A correction was a long time coming, and we should all see this as a good opportunity. Many will be hurt in the process, but like Buffet said, be fearful when people are greedy, and be greedy when people are fearful. They don't call them the oracle for nothing.
    • jtpinhead, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1Growth of efficient and profitable businesses makes a good economy. Were just digging a bigger hole with these bailouts that lets bad companies continue to make the same mistakes. People and businesses should be responsible for their risks. Also we are still in a period of economic growth just slowed growth due to risky investments.
    • Hangly, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1All that market capitalization was illusory to begin with.

      As for "room for growth"... Growth where? Growth into what? The only way we're getting back to where we were is with another debt bubble.
    • alclone, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1I see a short market and 50% returns :D

      Well my friend made 50%... I only made 15%...
      in 3 days...
  • vermax, on 09/17/2008, -4/+41I got your free market, how about a million of us chip in ten bucks, and then convene a secret panel to decide which hundred of you greedy conniving wall street douchebags to blow away? I'm sure there's a few hitmen up to the goddamned task. These ***** crow on about the American Dream and blah blah blah how patriotic they are, but guess what, they're doing far more damage to us all than any terrorists.
    • mooseontheloose, on 09/18/2008, -2/+2So ramming a plane into buildings = no damage
      Extending you voluntary credit = raping your children

      ??
  • Truzseeker, on 09/17/2008, -3/+20The house of cards is crumbling
  • blackdrivel, on 09/17/2008, -0/+32Not down the drain. The money has flowed into the hands of the rich at the expense of the poor taxpayer (who happens to be too busy working hard to afford the time to find loopholes in the tax system). At the end of the day, this is another case of the rich becoming richer.

    Sure, the average investor suffers, but money wealth doesn't just disappear. It gets transferred. And unless government regulates, it always gets transferred to the wealthiest.
    • trollick, on 09/17/2008, -0/+7When you suddenly realized that your Pets.com stock or your house are not worth as much as you thought were was that wealth transferred?
    • SatoriSeeker, on 09/17/2008, -2/+2Money does disappear. Otherwise there wouldn't be such a thing as deflation, which we went through in the great depression, which we're about to go through now. 4 trillion vanishes into thing air and the money supply contracts. Even the fed can't print that much money. Just sayin'
    • mooseontheloose, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2"but money wealth doesn't just disappear. It gets transferred."

      WRONG. Armchair economist.

      "Many economic situations are not zero-sum, since valuable goods and services can be created, destroyed, or badly allocated, and any of these will create a net gain or loss."
    • slezzzter, on 09/18/2008, -0/+0New goods and services create new markets that, in turn, create new consumers and new jobs. The standard of living is improved, wealth is created.

      On a side note, this is the primary problem with gold-backed currency. Though I would prefer that the dollar be backed by something, I don't think gold is flexible enough to deal with this concept of wealth creation.
      • MrKite, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1Yes, but new goods and services are coming from other countries and not the US. It's too risky to create new goods and services here. ;)

        Why is it risky? Because exec level employees require huge salaries and the mid-level to low level employees require enough to have a decent lifestyle as well as keep up with the really high cost of living. This may require working 80 hour weeks for extra money or to simply keep your job because of tight competition.

        So you see, it's easier getting or investing in new goods and services somewhere else like China (i.e. job loss rate keeps going up).
  • Pitofdoom, on 09/17/2008, -0/+6Imagine if the Italian mafia was running this monkey show, and you lost all their money. You wouldn't get lucky enough to be where ever Hoffa isn't....
  • chaserm, on 09/17/2008, -4/+6What's keeping the market up?????? It's only down 400 pts. today????? should be down 4000!
    • wynja, on 09/17/2008, -1/+8There are mechanisms in place to never allow a drop that large. Ever. They would shut the market down first.
    • vexingmodstwo, on 09/17/2008, -3/+5Why should it be down 4000? There's more to the DOW than just a few financial companies. Obviously, the other sectors are in fairly good shape for now.
    • richmomz, on 09/17/2008, -0/+8The crash that led to the Great Depression didn't happen overnight either (actually lasted 3 years).
    • vraetorian, on 09/17/2008, -3/+2Stop Short Selling for ONE month, and watch how fast those positions get covered and the market rebounds.
      • slezzzter, on 09/18/2008, -0/+0We shall see, the naked short ban starts soon.
  • wynja, on 09/17/2008, -2/+17Recover nothing. This is the best thing that could happen to this country. Another Great Depression is the only ***** thing that's going wake people up to reality.
    • rogue780, on 09/17/2008, -10/+3As I've posted in a different article, democrats rely on the suffering of others to promote their own agenda.
      • bobbi21, on 09/18/2008, -0/+3yeah republicans don't do that at all..
        (sarcasm)
      • rogue780, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1@bobbi21: they don't.
      • wynja, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2Hey *****, I'm a registered Republican. You know. A true fiscally conservative Republican that's not interested in banning abortions and same sex marriage with Constitutional bans. Of course, my party has turned it's back on true conservatives.
    • VitriolAndAngst, on 09/17/2008, -0/+5Yes, but this time they are letting wall street get away with the loot,and the pain will be felt more by the public.
    • fuzzmeister, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1Even though I'm liberal, I'm not quite sure another New Deal would do good things.
      • wynja, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1I'm talking about the collapse of our empire. No more policing of the planet. That in and of itself would fix our deficit.
  • PolishLogic, on 09/17/2008, -1/+6Perfect time to lower your cost basis.
  • gluecode, on 09/17/2008, -1/+52Did the $4 trillion actually exist to begin with?
    • Magnolit, on 09/17/2008, -1/+5http://www.thegamergene.com/wp-content/uploads/200 ...
    • jewishmafio, on 09/17/2008, -0/+4Nope, see my post down about 10 comments.
    • Hangly, on 09/18/2008, -0/+3No.

      Watch what happens to the DJIA between the early 90's and 2000 during the so-called "Clinton Boom." The value of the market increased five fold. There's no way even 20% of that could have been real.
    • dzw120, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1It did exist, in the future. That's how you value the stock. You predict its future cash flows, then discount it to present value.

      Once investors lose confidence in the futures of these companies, or in the ability of these companies to make future cash flows... well, you get the idea.
      • Jake54321, on 09/29/2008, -0/+0A Companies Market Cap is not the future value it is the present value - if a company has 1 Billion shares and they are trading for $45 a share the market Capitalization is $45 Billion in today's dollars.



  • failedpimp, on 09/17/2008, -1/+1$4 trillion, that's it?? I'm not impressed.
    • avataros, on 09/18/2008, -0/+0A billion here, a billion there. Pretty soon it adds up to real money, no?
  • davekay85, on 09/17/2008, -4/+9The money never really existed in the first place. It's just pieces of paper or, in this day and age, just 1's and 0's in a computer. We should be using gold to back our currency.
    • SchmuckofNI, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2or silver.
    • VitriolAndAngst, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2That is a distinction without a difference.

      When the government just prints money, or manufactures 1's and 0's -- it is slightly worse than if that money was raised by taxes. It comes out of everyone's pocket anyway by devaluing the dollar -- but it's worse because on a tax, the money is paid, we don't have to pay interest on getting someone to buy our debt -- which is what eventually happens to all that manufactured money at some point.
    • dabura, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3or in Soviet Russia, potatoes.
    • Ramble, on 09/18/2008, -0/+3The value of gold changes too, there wont be a difference.
      • Hangly, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1Yes, but until Bruce Willis's gold machine comes online there's no way governments can create more gold. The only way to increase the money supply using gold as currency is to steal it, mine it, or earn it.

        That has its drawbacks, but it prevents the situation we find ourselves in now.
  • duggynyc, on 09/17/2008, -2/+5Of course it's going to recover. It's just going to take some time.
  • rogue780, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3yes
  • wontstoptalking, on 09/17/2008, -4/+5But why have $4 Trillion when you can have.....$4...million???!!

    *puts pinky to mouth* mwahahahahahahaha!
    • dabura, on 09/17/2008, -5/+2*put penis to mouth* blahhhhhhhhh gwakk gakkkk wahhkkkk
  • AHolmes360, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2Maybe we should peg our dollar against the Euro? 1:2
  • Vintersemestre, on 09/17/2008, -0/+16isn't $4 Trillion Dollars redundant?
  • slickshoes, on 09/17/2008, -5/+5Dumbasses - just print more money! Problem solved.
    • richmomz, on 09/17/2008, -0/+5Genius! Now if someone were just clever enough to print $1 million dollars for each person we'd all be rich and our economy would be wonderful. Right. lol
    • SatoriSeeker, on 09/17/2008, -0/+1Even the fed cannot print that much money. This may very well be the beginning of a deflationary spiral leading into the greater depression.
    • Khast, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2Have a wheelbarrow? Because if they printed more money just to "fix" problems like this....you'd need millions to buy a loaf of bread after a while.

      Damn people...you need to know that the economy can't just make money appear like that...or it becomes devalued....just ask your grandparents about how much things cost when they were children? You say inflation... I say you're right, that's what causes it.
    • dabura, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2Sure, follow Zimbabwe's footstep and expect 2,000,000 dollars for a blowjob.
    • angryfirelord, on 09/18/2008, -0/+3Guys, he's being sarcastic. slickshoes, please remember the /s tag so you don't get modded down by impulsive diggers.
    • sanman, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1Actually, it's the Federal Reserve lending the "money" to the banks

      So yeah -- they really ARE printing money for this -- virtual money that doesn't really exist, except on a computer screen :(
  • PPCG4, on 09/17/2008, -0/+1In the second picture, doesn't it seem like something is 'receding'? inb4 that's what she said.
  • borez, on 09/17/2008, -3/+9If they dissolve the dollar when all of this is over, then come back with the Amero as a fix, then, to be honest, I'd really start to get worried:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amero
    • CedEx, on 09/17/2008, -3/+4As if us Canadians want to be linked to bad financial practices, and politics we don't agree with?! Amero?! Pfft... what are you smoking?
      • borez, on 09/17/2008, -1/+5As if you'll have a choice.

        FTR: it's very much in the pipeline and the cogs are already turning

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafta

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_Prosperi ...
      • tykwondingo, on 09/17/2008, -1/+4You say that now but if it came down to it, you wouldn't have a choice in the matter, just like we (Americans) don't have a choice now...
      • RogerStrong, on 09/18/2008, -1/+2CedEx is correct.

        While the US has spent the last 8 years running up record debt, Canada has been paying down it's debt. The institutionalized fraud that created the housing crisis didn't happen in Canada. Canada's unemployment rate recently reached a 33-year low, and it's dollar reached an all time high. It's economy got so hot that people *want* it to cool down. But it's not going to tie itself to a sinking shop.

        >> As if you'll have a choice.

        That's a cop-out: We have a choice. We're not the US - a country ruled by one party with two heads. We have a functioning multi-party democracy

        The last Canadian ruling party that thought the way you describe wasn't just voted out of office - they were voted out of existence. The other parties have not forgotten this.

        >> Links to NAFTA and the SPP.

        NAFTA is a trade agreement. The SPP is a series of minor trade and security agreements. Neither are monetary or political agreements. There's no "Amero" involved.
      • sanman, on 09/18/2008, -1/+1Uhh, Canada didn't have a choice when the US entered into free trade negotations with Mexico right after it negotiated free trade with Canada

        So, really and truly, Canada would not have a choice, if push came to shove
      • RogerStrong, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1>> Uhh, Canada didn't have a
        >> choice when the US entered
        >> into free trade negotations with
        >> Mexico right after it negotiated
        >> free trade with Canada

        You're making stuff up.

        a) The Canadian government was in favor, took part in negotiations, signed the treaty, and has sought to expand it.

        b) If we weren't for it, then the US could still have free trade with Mexico OUTSIDE of the Canada-US free trade agreement. This situation exists today with other countries that the US and Canada have free trade with - you pay duty when bring goods across the Canada/US border, unlike goods made in Canada/the US.

        This is a big part of why an iPod, etc. is cheaper in the States than in Canada. Near-free trade between China and the US does not mean near-free trade between China and Canada. Canada slaps duties on Chinese goods, even if they come through the States.

        >> So, really and truly, Canada
        >> would not have a choice, if
        >> push came to shove

        Washington wanted Canada to take part in the Iraq invasion. Canada said no.

        Washington wanted Canada to take part in a "Common Security Perimeter" - giving much control of our ports to Washington. Canada said no.

        Washington wanted Canada to bring in anti-drug policies that threw common sense out the window, similar to American laws that jail people for simple possession longer than murderers and rapists. Canada said no, dude.

        Washington wanted Canada to take part in the "star wars" missile defence system, with missile intercepter launchers and radars in Canada. Canada said no.

        Canada is a different country. Canadians make their own decisions. Get over it.
    • fuzzmeister, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2According to the Internet, the Amero has been imminent for the last decade.
      • RogerStrong, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2Yup. It's one of those things that'll happen "two years from now" for 10 years, and still will 10 years from now.

        In the mean time, no-one has produced any evidence that anyone in power in the US or Canada is interested. (The idea came from a private citizen YOU TOO can come up with similar ideas, with the same power to implement them.) Nor have they come up with a credible reason why Canada would adopt it.
      • borez, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2@RogerStrong: We ( In the UK ) all said that about the EU, but it's most definitely with us, even if we haven't accepted the Euro yet, as is the African Union and soon to be Asian Union which will come from the Asia Cooperation Dialogue (ACD), all that will be left is the North America Union, which is where NAFTA got the ball rolling.

        Next step, merge them all together with a single cashless society under the banner of Free Trade and you have a One World Government. Believe me mate, this is happening and has been planned for years.

        FTR: The EU also started with a couple of minor trade agreements.
      • RogerStrong, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2a) Even though the EU started off as a trade agreement, the idea of a full-blown common market with common currency and the rest was around for decades, negotiated openly, before it happened. And even then the citizens got a series of votes.

        In North America there hasn't been ANY sign that anyone in power in the US or Canada wants such an agreements. Instead the conspiracy theorists wave about "Building a North American Community", ignoing the fact that it was written by private lobbyists, not any government agency. And they ignore the fact that we've since done the OPPOSITE of what it calls for. Canada rejected the "common security perimeter". Far from the borders being made "more transparent", we have passport requirements and other blocks on the border for the first time EVER.

        c) North America isn't Europe. It hasn't had the cycle of major war after major war that the EU was created to end. Not just WWII, WWI and the Napoleonic wars, but "little" ones like Thirty Years War - a third of the population of Germany wiped out.

        d) More importantly, the EU has several major powers, and plenty of smaller ones that could team up. No one country can dominate the rest. North America on the other hand would be totally dominated by the US population and economy. So for Canada to join, it would require equal say in things like legal and monetary policy. This in turn would be unfair to Americans. It won't happen.

        e) The EU has safety measures to stop the flow of jobs from one country to another - joining countries must be in good shape economically. Once Mexico's economy is in good enough shape to join any NAU, its reasons for joining tend to disappear.
    • Hangly, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1I see this theory floated around a lot. Can someone tell me exactly how a new currency would fix any of this?

      Myanmar issues new currencies every decade or so as the previous ones get inflated into oblivion. So do many central american and African countries. It hasn't turned them into economic powerhouses that I've noticed, it's just a symptom of having a *****-up economy.
      • borez, on 09/18/2008, -1/+1Do some reading on the New World Order, join the dots... then you'll start to understand why.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_world_order

        I'd start with this lecture ( David Icke live at the Oxford University debating society ) It gives an overall picture of the master strategy.

        http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8198824 ...

        At this point people start shouting stuff about tin foil hats, but if you actually look around and observe what is going on in the World today, you'll find it's just not theory, it's actually happening.
      • Hangly, on 09/18/2008, -0/+3I've read plenty about the NWO. No doubt there are (or were) plans to subvert US sovereignty with such a currency, but I still fail to see how it will do anything to help the current situation.
      • RogerStrong, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2>> I see this theory floated
        >> around a lot. Can someone
        >> tell me exactly how a new
        >> currency would fix any of this?

        It wouldn't. The US's economy is so much larger than Mexico's and Canada that any common currency would essentially be the US dollar renamed.

        It would inherit the same bankrupting debt, the same mortgage/loan crisis, the same war and the same oil prices.

  • BlaiseTheMan, on 09/17/2008, -2/+3If you look at some of my past comments I called this months ago. It's just gonna get worse, all the bail outs are going to do is prolong the inevitable. I hope you've stocked up on fire wood and salted your meats.
    • fuzzmeister, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2A crisis on Wall Street and a barricade-yourself-in-your-house apocalypse situation are two very different things.
  • jewishmafio, on 09/17/2008, -2/+6No, most of the money that was "lost" was money that was speculated based on the fact that there was equity in those houses and securities. Once people started realizing that they had no value, then people began to realize that those securities and loans were in essence worthless and therefore, they became losses... but in reality alot of that money never really existed and it was all imaginary value that disappeared. So we didnt loose 4 trillion dollars, its more like... 4 trillion imaginary dollars no longer exist. Because if you think about it... where do you really loose that 4 trillion from? Speculation.
    • VitriolAndAngst, on 09/17/2008, -0/+4Stockholders and money BASED on the value of those imaginary dollars is lost.

      It's all damn imaginary anyway -- which is the thing you realize once you go beyond working for a living.

      The point of this game is to keep everyone busy -- to busy to know that the game is that YOU never win, and they always do. And we thought the egyptians building pyramids was silly... it was a more civilized way to keep people too busy to revolt than periodic wars.
    • SmartfulDodger, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1You can say its imaginary, but that won't do much good to the people whose retirement just went poof. It won't do any good to the people being foreclosed on either. Or the thousands of unemployed financiers walking around New York City today.

      I mean, I get that its hard to think of a dollar and equity as having a value when it isn't backed by gold. But the truth is, this isn't imaginary at all.
    • buckrogers1965, on 09/18/2008, -0/+3Money only has imaginary value. You take it on faith that when you are paid you can exchange those little strips of brightly colored paper for the things you need. But money has no intrinsic value. Faith alone is what assures its value. That faith is now being shaken.
    • sweetbwaoy, on 09/18/2008, -0/+0I've been saying that all along.
    • Jake54321, on 09/29/2008, -0/+0Dead on. 0% down, maxing out your brokerage margin, piling up on CC debt, buying more property with equity that doesn't exist. It seemed like everyone was a Millionaire and too many people were playing the part, It went from Ball Out to Bail Out
  • ImmortalSoldier, on 09/17/2008, -0/+4Everyone needs to get their hands dirty and stop throwing money into the machine. All this panic is just for people who live off of stocks. Jobs are being lost ofcourse, but if you want your money then get your hands dirty and earn it the old fashion way.
    • Jake54321, on 09/29/2008, -0/+0But working the old fashion way normally involves working for a company. These companies rely on Investments from individuals for expansion, expansion creates jobs. Companies sell shares of stock to raise money, so there is a need for shareholders or the people who "live off of stocks" for everyone else to "earn the old fashion way"
  • necoates, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3Since banks invent the majority of the money without any assets in the first place, is it really that amazing that a hiccup in the economy and everything comes crashing down?

    This entire country is running on a big credit margin account, when things are good it works great, but it doesn’t take much to bring it all crashing down!

    http://www.scamorbam.com/banking_scam.html
    • pantone287, on 09/17/2008, -1/+0Actually when things are bad is when we run up the huge debt. It is called keynesian economics. Right and left buy into it.
  • pantone287, on 09/17/2008, -0/+1Don't you mean: Can the taxpayers recover?
  • Changa, on 09/17/2008, -1/+14Damn... Shame we didn't get to privatize Social Security...

    It would have been good to have them in charge of that.
    • compulsive1, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1They saw the crisis coming and the push for privatizing of SS was a direct reaction to it. Having guaranteed trillions of dollars under management would probably prolong the "prosperity" of the financial institutions for a foreseeable future. But when they didn't get the huge cash infusion from restructuring of SS system they ran out of time.
  • dildoolielly, on 09/17/2008, -1/+8When a one percenter looses billions in overinflated stocks created by unbridled capitalist whores, an angel gets his wings.
  • SchmuckofNI, on 09/17/2008, -0/+1If only this happened last year...
  • moezes, on 09/17/2008, -3/+4this is nothing compared to the great depression... during the depression the stock market was down 75%... the value of goods and services declined by 42%... the physical volume of exports fell by half...

    the US grew by 3.5% last quarter...
    • VitriolAndAngst, on 09/17/2008, -2/+6Just wait, smart guy.
    • SatoriSeeker, on 09/17/2008, -1/+4Give it time....
    • SmartfulDodger, on 09/18/2008, -2/+1That doesn't make me feel any better about my retirement portfolio.
    • VitriolAndAngst, on 09/18/2008, -2/+2The downside of having a brilliant rejoinder to an ignorant comment is that when they Original Post gets buried, your brilliant pearls of wisdom go down with it.

      Therefore, I won't waste any more witty comments on someone who doesn't get that the same fictional 3% inflation rate comes from a group of crooks who lied us into war and don't blink from killing a million people to line their pockets.
    • akhomestead, on 09/18/2008, -1/+1If you believe the numbers the government puts out IMO if you account for the true inflation numbers, and didn't allow mark to market accounting, which allows companies show extra inventory as sales instead of as inventory, it would have changed our "growth"..

      Also a lot of banks instead of accounting for a loss after 90 days bumped it up to 120 days.
  • moolaismyfriend, on 09/17/2008, -0/+4The amount of wealth that has just been transferred out of the United States is staggering, in fact it is a crisis of epic proportions, and our president is no where to be seen.

    A real leader would be on television tonight explaining what measures were being taken to stave a further transfer of wealth from our shores tomorrow morning.

    Well I guess I will see you all on the other side Comrades.
    • sapo916, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2This is what we do, instead of importing Chinas crap we will export Americas crap. This way we can get our money back and reduce the load of crap we have!
  • seocookie, on 09/17/2008, -2/+23Good. Let the market work this crap out of the system. It's a shame people think this is an error done by the free market.

    You know what's funny?? The Federal Reserve was supposed to stop all those bank runs (which were created actually through the First and Second National Banks and US coinage acts; not by the free market itself), and yet thousands of banks closed during the Great Depression, we have stagflation in the 1970's, 1987 the stock market plummets so we create the Plunge Protection Team (President's Working Group on Financial Markets --- Google it..very very interesting), 1990 the real estate market collapses (again), 2001 the Dot-com bubble bursts after the Federal Reserve increased the money supply to the point where they won't even report M3 anymore--the aggregate money supply--which resulted in Wall Street pouring its capital into stocks like Pets.com, etc. and now today...the largest ever bankruptcies have been filed, trillions of dollars worth of assets have been seized and socialized by the Federal Government, and we haven't even had unemployment start its move yet. The Federal Reserve's responsibility is to maintain low inflation; since its inception, the Dollar has lost over 95% of its purchasing power in its 95 year history.

    Can we just admit the Government sucks balls at economics, and that a private corporation like the Federal Reserve doesn't even half-assed do its job?? Why do we put up with this, and why do people insist on Digging irrelevant economic policies of Obama and McCain?? Both their budgets are $3+++ trillion per annum...how the hell do we afford that?? By cutting off corporate loopholes and ending pork barrel spending?? Give me a ****ing break.
    • moolaismyfriend, on 09/17/2008, -1/+8The only answer is revolution Comrade.

      Seriously, it won't change until the people awaken.

      If Wamu does fail this week and over 10 million people have their debit card and checking accounts frozen, there may be a glimmer of a chance for revolution.
      • seocookie, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2We need a Sons of Liberty group. I don't know of anyone actually actively campaigning like those guys did, and that's the problem. I hope the House of Cards do fall down so we change this system, my only worry is people will still sleep and accept FDR-policies under a new administration regardless of whether it's Obama or McCain.
  • denser, on 09/17/2008, -2/+2American financial mess is now affecting jobs in indian IT sector...america...y so srs?
  • clemsontiger, on 09/17/2008, -2/+4This is a return to capitalism. Get ready and hang on. This has been needing to happen for awhile.
    • SatoriSeeker, on 09/17/2008, -2/+3Or it could be a detour into Socialism. The government now owns the majority of real estate business in the US (Fannie/Freddie) along with 80% of AIG (insurance), and we're nowhere near the bottom of this thing. I hope you're right though.
  • stagmire, on 09/17/2008, -1/+3This is stupid. AIG still has over $1 trillion in assets. The loan from the fed just ensures that it will be able to get fair market value for those assets.
    • moolaismyfriend, on 09/17/2008, -1/+2I agree,

      plus the loan is set at 3-month LIBOR plus 850 bps which as of now is 11.3 percent.

      and the fed got a 80% stake in AIG plus veto power on all board decisions for 2 years.

      I think this deal will pay for the Bear Sterns deal as well.
      • f54280, on 09/18/2008, -0/+0You are dreaming. The $1 trillion in assets of AIG are worth less then their liabilities. AIG is the issuer of many many CDS. If you are lucky, the loan is just the difference, and American taxpayers will only have lost 80 billions. If you are unlucky (by far the most probable outcome), the American Govt will be left with the junk liabilities of AIG, and NOBODY have any idea of how much it will cost, because the amount of liability is rising with each and every market failure.

      • stagmire, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1Let me get this straight: AIG's $1 trillion worth of assets is actually worth less than $80 billion?

        lulz @ you.
    • buckrogers1965, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1I can't wait to get my AIG dividend check for loaning them that money.
  • SillyDigger, on 09/17/2008, -2/+5Our puppet masters are purposely collapsing the economy so they can push the Amero/North American Union.
    • SmartfulDodger, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1I hope the new capital of Amero is Wall Drug.
    • fuzzmeister, on 09/18/2008, -1/+1Care to provide some evidence? Or did you just see a convenient time to spout conspiracies?
  • SilverBlade2k, on 09/17/2008, -0/+1Lets thank the idiotic banks for taking on ad mortgages to make this all happen..
  • richmomz, on 09/17/2008, -1/+2I think... yeah, actually relatively certain that, we're screwed.
  • kevinkris, on 09/17/2008, -2/+5Come on guys.. Don't worry.. Gandpa told that Fundamentals of our economy are Strong !!
    He will invent something new.. Just like how he invented BlackBerry !

    Meet you at "Bridge to nowhere" on Nov 4th..
    Ciao..
  • VitriolAndAngst, on 09/17/2008, -0/+5While the "smart people" on the street, talk with thoughtful voices about how companies like AIG and Fannie Mae are too big to fail, it more reminds me of that scene in the Titanic where the minstrels keep playing while the upper classes calmly escape on the life boats. I think, not only were the deck chairs traded, painted, and sorted by color -- they were burned to speed up the ship and get it a few miles more -- doing nothing about the hole in the side created by the iceberg.
  • SatoriSeeker, on 09/17/2008, -0/+11"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

    - Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826),
    Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
    • XanderDee, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2People of all countries not just America are just too stupid to get that. The banks hold our money. They see it all and want it thus figure out ways to get it. How basic is that.

      *****.

      Now I am going to go and deposit some cash in my WaMu account.

      (just kidding I have all my money in gold and silver months ago)
  • TsuruchiBrian, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3We never actually had that money. Our powerful overlords incorrectly predicted we WOULD have that money, and spent it accordingly. Now it is becoming more and more apparent that these people are not as smart as they made themselves out to be. But they actually kind of still are smart, because they are making us pay for their mistakes by simply sending the bill to the national debt (future tax payers).
  • prateeko, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3The original NYTimes interactive graphic is more fun (I know the link is in the article, but still...)

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/09/15/busi ...
  • Groovydoo, on 09/17/2008, -1/+0George Bush is the new Herbert Hoover! Also, we will get out of this mess but inflation will follow. Good investments at this point would be commodity funds, or better yet, pay off any debt you have because interest rates will soar post crisis.
    • RogerStrong, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1Wrong Hoover. Think of the Hoover associated with suckage.
  • mrzack, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3I'm Not even gonna read the article, but I'mma gonna hafta say ... "NO"
  • dabura, on 09/17/2008, -8/+1I'm happy with my 150k/year job
    haha, too bad
  • JesseJ, on 09/17/2008, -0/+5Answer, yes, but it will take some 60 years of hard work from the people.
    Nice system America, privatize profits, socialize losses!
    • toyrifle1, on 09/18/2008, -0/+0So true, but I guess they had lots of fun on the way.
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