What is Digg?37 Comments
- dustyshadow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Roth IRA is where it's at.
The limit needs to be upped. - esamsoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7It's hilarious how these threads start out so constructive and then degenerate into grade school name calling. In the spirit of things I'd like to throw a big ***** yo' momma out to the crowd. Thanks for the great digg.
- pcgeek101, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Dugg, because more people ought to do something with their lives, and make a fortune trading. I've used these tutorials as part of my learning process early on, and they did help quite a bit to get me on my feet.
One of the best resources ever though, has been http://www.investopedia.com - TheDragonTony, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@apollyon
You can get a Roth IRA (or a traditional IRA for that matter) that allows you to invest the funds you deposit into mutual funds or individual stocks; plus then you get the tax benefits of the IRA. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Though the power of compound interest, if you start out young, with even a modest monthly investment, you can make a serious amount of money in 40-50 years. Don't dismiss this so easily.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@HaltingPoint
I don't know what your definition of "young" is, but 34 years is pretty damn young. FYI you can be 100% in equities and be very well diversified. First of all, we should define a "diverse portfolio" since I am assuming you are not talking about the measure of Beta each security has. Modern finance academics indicate you can be diversified against almost ALL systematic risk with only 12-15 equities.
It seems michael has a strategy, and as long as the strategy is long-term and focused on fundamentals, he will be fine. Especially considering his horizon is about 30 years.
You imply he should play it conservative when he young so that he can "play way riskier games in 10-20 years..." THIS IS THE WORST ADVICE YOU COULD GIVE. By that time he will be in his mid 40's to 50's, probably have children in college and a spouse to support. That is when you need to start cooling down on the equities and to to bonds and etfs. Your advice, while well intentioned and seemingly intuitive, is wrought with error.
It would serve you well to read Morningstar's investment material. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@CKR600
You are ignorant. I have done this entire curriculum. Morningstar does not push any of their products. In act, if you pass enough of the tests at the end of the lessons, they GIVE you free access to some of their services. Their courses teach you stock valuation based on fundamentals and discount valuation. They do not try to sell you anything, they try to teach you everything you need to know about getting started in equities. - sud0n1m, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Agreed that investopia is a great resource. I would be careful when advising about making a fortune "trading". Yes it's true you can make a fortune trading, but it you are more likely to keep your fortune if you made it "investing". There is a difference.
- michaelb1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@argoff
I would assume that you do not own any stocks?
How do you plan to retire if not by making your money work for you? Will you stuff it in your mattress and hope inflation doesn't reduce it to a pile of loose change in 30years.
Investments is THE way to secure your future. How can you advise people not to invest.
We're on the cusp of another great wealth generating period.
Don't you want to benefit from it? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Argoff
"Any IRA's with all their penalties and rules are just trouble waiting to happen". I quit reading here. You are terribly ignorant, and I wish you would reconsider your outlook on investment. IRAs (esp the Roth IRA) are one of the best investment vehicles available. - michaelb1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Have you guys heard of the Roth 401k?
Its like a regular 401k but has the tax advantage of a Roth IRA. You pay taxes on your income today and no taxes on all your capital gains when you pull it out at 59 1/2. - fitzfan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"The limit needs to be upped."
Yea it should, i think it goes up to $5000 in 2008 but it would be nice if it was even higher. - TheDragonTony, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3HaltingPoint
While owning some bonds and some stocks is one way to be diversified owning stocks in different sectors of the market (ie tech, defense, oil, health care, retail, etc.) is also a completely valid path to diversity.
Your advice about not taking extra risk now is bad. 34 is still young enough that most of your working life is ahead of you and you (or more specifically in this case michaelb1) have most of your working life to make up for any mistakes made at this point. For this same reason your advice to take risks "once you've accumulated some money" is bad. As you get older and closer to your desired retirement age you should be making less risky investments. Additionally, your advice about using the profits to take risks with is bad. The entire point of investing in a 401(k) is that you put away money now and that money (with its tax benefits) PLUS the gains will be enough for you to live on when you retire. Losing all your gains because you were too risky with them could ruin your retirement plan (and if he listened to you then he would be closer to retirement and have less time to make up lost ground). One cannot look at their portfolio (for investing purposes) as this is what I put in and this is what I earned... it is all your retirement money and it is all equally important.
I'm not saying that every investment should be a high risk one, but (in my non professional and absolutely not liable for any gains or loses you incur opinion) bonds are for suckers, a nice non risky stock like Altria (MO) or Procter & Gamble (PG) with a good dividend is plenty stable... especially for someone in their 30s. - michaelb1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Thanks for the link. As happens quite often a story on digg is posted at precisely the right time that I am ready to take advantage of it.
I just now started contributing to my Roth 401k (I'm 34) and I am buying individual stocks to play with. Buying Apple tomorrow. i think 2007 will be their big year.
Despite professional advice to invest in 70% stocks and 30% bonds I am 100% stock.
And 30% of that is foreign (European and Pacific/Asia) and 10% is foreign emerging markets.
I want to overcome my late to the gate penalty by investing in high return (high risk) foreign investments.
There is a lot of money to be made in China and I want it. Thats 1.3 billion people that need microwave ovens, bank services, furniture, computers, etc etc. - ahhhrn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Are you saying we should invest in silver and gold in our retirement accounts? That could quite possibly be the worst investment advice I've ever heard. Why would you invest in a pile of metal that does absolutely nothing when you could invest in companies that are actually earning money and paying you a share of those earnings? Sure, commodities might have a good year every now and then but on the whole they are piss poor investments. Gold was up at $600 per ounce in the early 80s and that's BEFORE adjusting for inflation. Silver was equally rediculous at something like $20 per ounce. It would sure suck to lose 75% of your investment in 20 years...
- pabloD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This is actually great timing, as I want to learn about this stuff and make some small long term investments in the new year.
- michaelb1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5no.
- michaelb1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I just heard about investopia the other day. Havn't checked it out yet but its on my list for this weeks web reading.
I've heard good things about it. - sotopheavy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Will somebody take these lessons and Web->PDF->Torrent plzthx
- michaelb1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@ Haltingpoint
"I'm sorry but you are a fool."
I own 5 different mutual funds in my 401k.
How does that make me a fool?
How is that putting all my eggs in one basket?
So by your logic I am a fool who puts all my eggs in one basket if I don't buy bonds.
"you'll have plenty of solid footing financially and eventually be able to play way riskier games in 10-20 years once you've accumulated some money from those less risky investments."
This seems to be the opposite of conventional wisdom. You should take more risk in the younger years as it provides more time to recover from loss.
If I loose 40% on an investment at 34 I have 30+ years to recoup.
If I loos 40% on an investment at 54 I am screwed. - TheDragonTony, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1michaelb1
Yeah Roth 401(k)s are awesome... unfortunately a lot of plans won't implement them as it is kind of a pain (last I heard anyway). So you're quite lucky that you work somewhere that offers them.
Anyone that (that wants one but) belongs to a plan that doesn't offer them should call your plan administrator and/or the head of your company to request them. - MonexFRAUD, on 09/14/2008, -0/+0Whatever you do don't buy gold from Monex.
http://www.monexfraud.com - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@technophobe
You can open a Roth IRA if you receive an income. My 16 year old brother has one. This is very relevant information especially considering the US government (read: the US Fiat dollar) will become insolvent in our lifetime. - donna34, on 05/04/2008, -0/+0Thanks for the link.
here is investment theory step by step: http://www.investmentsandincome.com/site-map.html - callmejordy265, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Buffet retired didnt he?
- argoff, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@michaelb1,
I would love to invest (and I do own several stocks in gold and silver producers) and I would love to invest in high-tech, but not like this. I bought a pile of silver and sat on it and made 44% last year, I just can't imagine a lower risk with a higher yield. Dude, the market is not a mystery, what's happening in the US now-days has happened in countries all over the planet (like Argentina) for over 100 years. In a currency collapse setting, it is not the time to ride the high tech stock wave, or the fund or index wave, and especially not the derivatives wave. From my perspective people are acting like crazy drunks. - MasterThief117, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1For a second, I thought they were referring to the MorningStar vegetarian stuffs.
- hiPpymIck, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2 heres a fun transatlantic difference ......
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index2.php/free/history
(be careful its communist.....) - argoff, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0@ahhhrn,
It doesn't matter what's invested in if the money is watered down more than the payoff. During the 80's there was a panic out of the dollar, and the Fed raised interest rates to 21% to halt the panic. It worked !!! Combined with Regans tax breaks and the dollarisation of oil - faith in the dollar was restored and an economic boom followed.
It worked because we were not over saturated in debt so people believed that we could pay it off, and because OPEC gained military security via dollar acceptance. Well today, the US is way way over saturated in debt and things in the middle east are going to hell - 21% APR would rip the US economy to shreds. With all the over liquidity and excessive credit - only a loon would invest in such an over-saturated market. It's better to sit on the sidelines with gold till they get whipped into pulling their head out, and then invest rationally. - iMatt711, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1has anyone else noticed the amount of articles kevin's been posting lately?
- HaltingPoint, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3I'm sorry but you are a fool. Putting all your eggs in one basket is about the dumbest thing you can do, especially if you are late to the investing game. I understand your eagerness to try to make up for lost time by going high risk, but this is your financial livelihood...why not diversify, and then just go high risk with any of your profits from your stocks (dividends, selling shares, etc)?
Its a huge gamble and if you diversify a bit, you'll have plenty of solid footing financially and eventually be able to play way riskier games in 10-20 years once you've accumulated some money from those less risky investments. - apollyon, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3Dustyshadow, you can make a hell of a lot more money through smart investing with Mutual funds. Granted, there is greater risk, but with greater risk comes greater reward. With mutual funds, the risk is a lot lower than investing in stocks yourself. Just pick one fund family (T Rowe Price, Van Kampen, Vanguard, Fidelity, etc), invest early, invest often, be willing and able to move your funds from one fund to another every couple of years, and just like thefutureisours said, its not hard to make millions over the course of 30 or 40 years.
- argoff, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0@CAPMCrunch,
FU. I made 44% last year by just buying silver and sitting on it, what yield did you make? Call me ignorant if you like, but it won't change the fact that a little common sense whipped the crap out of every market category out there. - argoff, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1Oh boy. The first thing to understand about investing is that it's about control first, money second. Any IRA's with all their penalties and rules are just trouble waiting to happen. A LOT of things can happen over 30 years, what if there is a financial panic? With an IRA you will never get to a safe-haven in time.
You see, the IRS taxes way to much for anybody to save for a decent retirement, so they put these "hoops" in the system for people to jump thru to compensate for that failure. The solution is not to jump thru the hoops (eg IRA's), but to escape the control that causes this harm to begin with. Otherwise, you are literally playing dogie-tricks with your life.
The 2nd thing to understand about investing is that it's about "real" money, not inflated money. Gold went up 33% last year and silver went up 44% even with a massive 6 month correction. With the debt and account-deficit like it is, and 50 trillion in unfunded liabilities, how could anybody ignore that kind of a warning signal. At this moment the system is bankrupt by any standard, only an idiot would buy stocks, housing, or bonds at this time. Investment course my ass, investment advice my ass, the only logical conclusion is that they are trying to corral people into the system to screw them over hard. - CKR600, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1If you sold a stock that you think will fall, there is another person out there that believes it will rise.
Therefore, any money you make trading stock, someone or more likely several people have lost an amount equal to what you have gained.
So why the ***** would you take advice from people who make a living trading stock, that you don't personally know? Trust me if you knew what they know, they wouldn't be making money. They are teaching you what they want you to think you know.
I'm not saying you wont see success, but take everything with a grain of salt. Ask yourself why, and be as cynical as you possible can when trying to figure out that answer.
/puts foil hat back on - Ulisses, on 10/12/2007, -13/+1Only investment advice worth a damn:
1. Only invest during a bull market.
2. On the absense of conditions in (1), be Warren Buffet.
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