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94 Comments
- chaosmachine, on 10/12/2007, -6/+31that's right, terrorists are ruining the economy.. it has nothing to do with the government spending trillions of dollars it doesn't have..
- maklershed, on 10/12/2007, -5/+29This article contends that it's a Republican election time strategy to keep people fearful of terrorists. Assuming this statement is true, is that not the definition of terrorism itself? Using fear as a tactic to acheive a goal or desired outcome.
- 15charmaxwtf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Let me guess, number one is the government.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+23Neocons ARE terrorists.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19Gee, I knew that one was coming. Typical ***** neocon talking points that have absolutely no bearing in reality. Do you have your official Bill O' Reilly Talking Point Instructional Manual handy for just such an emergency?
I don't hate Republicans. I don't even hate all conservatives. Hate is a conservative value. Neocons on the other hand, are without exception, warmongering, lying pieces of ***** with no conscience, no regard for the Constitution and not even the slightest shred of anything that could be called ethics or morals. Neocons are the ones undermining the Constitution. Neocons are the ones destroying the economy. Neocons are the ones trying to subdue the rest of the population through one of the largest FUD campaigns in history. If anything counts as terrorist activity, that does. I don't hate them either, I just think they're subhuman scum. - brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20What's amazing is that the same complete-free market proponents don't seem to address what working was like before regulation. 1800's and turn-of-the-century industrial workers worked 15+ hours each day for pennies. Children worked in these conditions, too. Many of these buisnessmen violated their employee's basic human rights.
Of course, now that would all be different, just ignore that annoying old saying about learning from the past. - Osjpr, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19"As China's economy has expanded, some local officials have ignored safety concerns in factories and mines in order to achieve production and profit targets."
This is for the free market-no regulation proponents who think corporations are somehow innately well-behaving if given free reign to do whatever they want, or that competition would provide the solution. China is a country without any safety regulation or worker protections.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5294270.stm - Hender, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Actually, the reason for high workplace mortality is that China has quite high unemployment and the workforce has limited mobility as the infrastructure is not as mature as in western developed countries. This means that the workers have to take the jobs they can get to avoid having to beg on the streets. These workers prefer to work in a dangerous environment because otherwise they would be broke, starving, and dying.
Your issue ought to be with the lack of social security in China, as that would actually deal with the problem. - skav, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13From sirocco: "the health of the economy relies on the stability of every-day functions, and when you disrupt those functions for even a few days it usually results in billions of dollars of lost revenue"
But what has disrupted everyday activities more: terrorism or our response to the possibility of it? I'm not just talking about hours of wasted time humiliating ourselves in airports. The increased difficulty of interacting with the USA is driving the world away from us.
Recently I attended a SONAR conference and 20 chinese scientists were slated to speak and report on their new techniques. They couldn't get in due to increased visa paranoia. I'm going to repeat that: people from China, arguably the only state capable of fielding threatening submarines and a blossoming new superpower, were going to tell us all about what they're doing in SONAR, and we turned them away. Next year's conference is being held in China.
The same thing is happening in lots of fields. It's hurting tourism. In order to come see Vegas, you need fingerprints, an id with RFID, months in advance, with a chance to be turned away and given no reason. Or you could just go to freakin Europe.
It's only terror if we let it terrorize us. It can only damage America if we forget what it means to be Americans. We aren't just a place. We are an ideal and a dream. And that dream is NOT a cowering, paranoid, police state.
You still have more of a chance of dying if you drive 11 miles on the roads than you do from terrorism. Why isn't the government calming us down instead of whipping us into a frenzy? This guy has written some interesting policy papers about it:
http://psweb.sbs.ohio-state.edu/faculty/jmueller/ - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15@right75
Neocons are terrorists.
Terrorsit:
the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear.
In this case folks like Rumsfeld, Chaney and Bush have used fear, or the threat of violence from other people, to attain their goals.
They may say they are protecting the USA, but so far the only things I see is it's slow destruction through trampling of the constitutional ideaolgy that has existed for hundreds of years.
They are terrorists, but are more deceptive than the idiots that strap bombs on, and do not care to hide their true intentions. - abqjudy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Digging this only because the comments are so rewarding. Knowing that some see through the propagandistic trends in business "news" so called, makes my old heart glad.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9WWW4 against china with sticks...
they would totally obliterate us. - Galphanore, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11The current government IS un-American.
- FrankieB078, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Wow aren't you a smart cookie. It's a shame your average joe can't discern this from the fog of BS that floats around our faces.
- ahhell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10How come Bush didn't make that list?
- PhantomRogue, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Is it just me or is Terrorism the Biggest risk for every study coming out?
HomeLand Securtity, Economy, Foreign Relations, Domestic Relations...
Hell, I can lose my job because of Terrorism, maybe they will even impregnate my girlfriend, kill my parents and steal my dog.
Yet another market for fearmongering. - Phr00t, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@ right75
OK, I see you believe what the administration is telling you. I'm just curious... isn't the fight against terrorism suppose to protect our freedoms? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Because he's a greater threat to the economy than everything else on the list combined. The danger Bush presents is infinitely greater than any mere list could even begin to desrcibe.
- Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6>> How many of you have actually talked with a average person in China, India, etc.?
I called Dell customer support just the other day. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Interestingly, they did not include pay disparity in the list. A large part of the personal debt issue is that the average worker is making less and less and working more and more while the executive management is making more and more.
The difference between CEO pay and average worker pay has gone from around 30X in the early 70s to over 200X currently. - Phr00t, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@ sinisterkungfu
Name calling and complete disrespect for the "other side" will get us (e.g. "liberals") absolutely no more support.
Although I don't agree with you, TubaTechno, I'm not going to swear at you and laugh. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Repeal the Bear Patrol tax!
- rkenward, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7trade deficit is the biggest concern by far - all china has to do is say "pay up bitches" and we're done for. ww3 just to sustain the country, the ratio of chinese to american is unbalanced - gruesome war with bombs, ww4 is fought with sticks and stones.
- chrisgiddings, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4What the hell are you blabbering about. The notions you're posing here include a vast minority of American people we like to call 'bums'. They may or may not have a job but do little to nothing for the economy or for other Americans.
Try not attacking people next time and explaining your viewpoints with well-thought-out comments and perhaps we'll get somewhere and maybe all of us will come out a little more intelligent. - DigitAl56K, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Terrorism is not a short term risk, nor is it more of a threat to the economy than it ever was. If you believe that Terrorism is now a greater threat to the economy than ever, then you believe the war in Iraq was entirely pointless because it must have failed for this to be the case.
The _fear_ of terrorism is probably the greatest threat to the economy, and we know who to thank for that, Mr President. - Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yeah, I have a huge problem with that. And if you were to ask a typical CEO to take even 5% of their yearly salary and spend it on programs and equipment to make work safer and more enjoyable they'd tell you to sod off. I think there is a point where you have to say "Regardless of my contributions to the company, I'm being paid an unreasonable amount of money that could be put to better use than sitting in my account waiting to purchase my third yacht."
Unfortunately, no one I know with that much money is willing to say that, and I can only hope that if I ever find myself in that position I'd have the strength of character to do something about it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't know who you're referring to when you say "you people".
I'm not one of those people who think Bush is responsible for 9/11, and I don't recall ever posting anything that would insinuate otherwise. - chicksdigme, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4As soon as I saw the headline, I knew China would be brought up.
The single threat to US economy is stupid people in this country--people who have absolutely no knowledge about China, India, or any other country, people who read a couple of articles then pretend to be experts.
How many of you have ever set foot in China, India, or any other developing country? How many of you have lived there for at least a year? How many of you have actually talked with a average person in China, India, etc.? How much of China or India have you seen?
Thank you for being xenophobic and egocentric (US-centric). - Idealistic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@right75
But i hear all the time that if i don't follow blindly the doctrines of the right, sacrificing personal freedom at every turn, then i am next on the terrorist list. That a treat of violence, albeit indirect, to obtain a political goal. I'm not sure that i would go so far as to call the people pushing these agendas terrorists, but they are certainly fear mongers and are definitely betraying the core values of this country for personal gain.
If you are going to try to make an argument, try to shape it in such a way that it is not rendered moot from the start because it was already directly addressed by the very statement you were trying to discredit. Or in the very least, feign understanding of what you attempting to rebut. Just because you are not directly causing the violence, inciting fear throughout the populace using the threat of that same violence is damn close enough. - warmonger48, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Bears the greatest threat to the economy!!!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@phr00t
by neocon logic, the only way to protect our freedoms is to take them away before the "terrorists" can. - SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@Hender
"I haven't met any proponents of a completely free market"
You must be new here. Don't worry, you'll get to meet them soon enough. "Taking from the rich and giving to the lazy." was something one of them said here on digg. - Phr00t, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8@ maklershed
Hrm.. you could say our government are terrorists, but they are using /other/ terrorists to blame :)
So how do we get that 49% [ http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm ] to realize this? - Web_Weasel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Debt is our #1 export.
- PhantomRogue, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You are right that the Biggest threat to the Economy is War, but only because we borrow so much money to fund war.
If they raised taxes to pay for war, people would despise it, and would actually be against invasion of other countries when we realize what the cost of war really is. Not jsut in terms of lives lost.
But putting the money to Education is just as big of a waste, even more of a reason for public schools to hand out diplomas like they are candy, colleges to accept anyone with a pulse and other countless wastes of money.
Healthcare is GOUGING Americans, its the fastest growing market (in terms of cost) next to Oil.
The only real way to protect the Economy is to put the money back into Manufacturing, Agriculture and buying our debt back. Protect the Economy by getting us to Even, not by putting more and more money into things we lived without and can live well without. - RadiantBeing, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Actually, the free market in China, or more specifically, in China's Special Economic Zones, is working. The labor market is actually facing a shortage in China and understaffed factories and businesses have to offer pay raises and benefits in order to attract workers. This creates competition between businesses, benefiting the average worker. Furthermore, young Chinese want to do service jobs, which are higher skilled and pay more. This is the economic transition that every first world industrial power went through. This will continue until the cost of manufacturing becomes too expensive and then outsourcing will move on to South Asian or Central Asian countries.
"Girls are asking, 'Do we get overtime? What are the benefits?'" says Kathy Deng, who owns a recruitment company in Guangzhou. "Guangdong needs workers. Zhejiang and Shanghai need workers. They have more choices. So it's difficult to find workers." ... Growing affluence in Pearl River cities also means new job alternatives. Away from Dongguan's grimy factory belt, SUVs stream along highways to upscale neighborhoods that are hungry for manpower. "No matter how much you pay [in factories where wages average $100 per month], the service industry pays more. People want to work in stores, or be waiters in five-star hotels," says Mr.Lan, the shoe industry publisher. Some footwear plants are responding by upgrading worker dormitories, cafeterias, and bathrooms."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/01/business/main1563311.shtml?source=RSS&attr=World_1563311 - wibblewibble, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"The enemy of my enemy is my friend".
I dont like America for what its doing, so you put me in a position of supporting YOUR ENEMY.
Thats not a position you want to be in. No friends. You cant buy friends and you cant bully people into being your friend.
You may not like what I have to say but I think that is what you are doing. Truth hurts, yes. its a horrible truth but thats life.
Ignore that at your own pearl. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4especially since they all know kung fu!
- SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@RadiantBeing
Sure, in a situation where there is a shortage of qualified workers you tend to get better conditions for workers. Such situations are temporary and localized though. They in no way help the great majority of workers who do not have an expertise that there is a shortage of. - Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Calling it fearmongering is gross oversimplification and being myopic at worst. Don't sit in your chair and pretend that things stop having consequences three feet from where you exist.
The sad truth is that in our modern society, where we are surrounded by and absolutely dependant on automated systems both on the personal and community/city level, it is easy for a single person to set up an attack that can temporarily cripple a system... be it communications, power, water/sanitation, or transportation. Even if these attacks do not result in significant loss of human life, they can and usually do cause a tremendous 'ripple' in the daily operations of society, resulting in an equally gigantic loss on a financial level as people are suddenly faced with the prospect of everything "not working as it should."
Throwing a rock in a pond doesn't do much at the local level, but watch the ripples expand and observe the surface area they cover against the surface area of the rock. It's a brutally simplistic analogy, but it's also highly representative of the situations we've seen in the past.
Can terrorism be exploited to influence public perception of recent events? You bet. That is not always the case, and with regard to terrorism being a genuine threat to ANY economy (in an industrialized nation); the answer is a resounding yes and it will continue to be so no matter what we do. - rampage3000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Unemployment is a symptom not a reason. Go deeper.
Otherwise good message. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10@TubaTechno
Yes, do go on. Your delusional ranting is ***** hilarious and I could use a good laugh today. - Idealistic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@right75
BTW, nice straw man (not really) about that silly conspiracy theory. I would say that the vast majority of liberals don't believe that pile of crap. Its just the following of some bratty college kid with too much time on his hands.
And as much as the liberals make jokes about the President's intelligence, however easy it is to do, i would venture to say that a lot of it is tongue in cheek. You have to be at least above average intelligence to manipulate people in the way that he is. Or at least have someone backing you that is intelligent. - creighton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This is lazy journalism, akin to the "20 sexiest men in Hollywood" articles coming out of newsstand rags. We're almost to deadline and have space to fill! I dunno, make a list or something.
btw, China is in no position to say "pay up." Though they're extending us huge amounts of credit, they're dependent on Americans buying heaps of their products at WalMart on a daily basis. As long as we keep buying (which we will), our credit is good with China. - rampage3000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Thats not what any of my teachers have said. What if you sell guns? Or get to keep control of fouren oil?
Or if you work for companies like Bechtel?
http://digg.com/politics/Bechtel_Group_Inc
http://digg.com/users/rampage3000/dugg/page7
http://www.bechtel.com/
War is what made Rome. I think it can help or hurt an economy. War is Definitly not the best to help though. Anything that underminds civilization as a whole hurts. - kavaliro, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Drivel. Absolute drivel.
Here's the top threats to the U.S. Economy:
Unemployment. The level of unemployment in the U.S. is horribly misrepresented. Only a small fraction of unemployed people are actually counted-- those on welfare are considered "employed," those who are not actively seeking employment are not counted, and the numbers one does actually see only reflect those who file with the state. Even so, the unemployment level is reported at an awful 4.8%, or about 1 in every 20 people! The real numbers, I suspect would be nearer to 10%, one in every 10 people.
Credit. Credit is literally enslaving America. When over half of American's earnings go to pay interest, there's a problem. It's destroying their livelihood. But look at the problem from a macro-level, and you see that the purchasing power of the average American is hobbled by it. It makes the entire economy sluggish, holding it against a knife-edge of disaster.
Outsourcing. Sending American jobs overseas? Which politician allowed this? The real question is, which politician stood against it? That outsourcing is bad for the economy is obvious. Whether it's a matter of building computer components and toys in China or setting up call centers in India, while Americans are unemployed, this should be strongly, strongly discouraged using legislative means. Reduce the unemployment rate to, say .5%, and then it would be OK. Until then, it should be highly discouraged.
Poor infrastructure. This issue is hard for most Americans to see, because we have all grown up in a poor infrastructure, so we are numbed to it. But one only has to visit foreign countries to see what I am talking about. Here's probably the best window to illustrate my point: our economy is completely and utterly dependent upon the possession of personal vehicles. Rather than cities being built so that walking is appropriate, cities have been built so that driving is appropriate. This causes several problems. It makes us dependent upon oil. It makes us generally obese. A huge portion of available land is used up by roadways. It causes pollution. An unimaginable cascade of problems are caused by or exacerbated by our poorly designed infrastructure.
The top threat to the U.S. economy is actually the mega-corporations. Looking at America's economy as a tree, it's clear that the heavy fruit at the top of the tree is bending the tree to the breaking point and choking the life out of all the smaller fruit on the tree. Big corporations are squeezing little companies to death. One only need visit a random small town anywhere in America to see the effects of the mega-corp, Walmart. Small-town, USA is getting chewed to pieces. There are laws in place to prevent this from happening, yet politicians have turned a blind eye.
Hand in hand with the previous problem is the problem of lack of diversification. Where are the blacksmiths, the farmers, the carpenters, the glass-blowers-- all the people who create the things we need? Starved out by corporations. The problem with their disappearance is that if something does go drastically wrong and the economy collapses, say due to a massive oil shortage, then there is no backup plan. We are simply utterly ruined. No one remembers how to forge a tool, or even build a forge. No one knows when to plant or what seed to plant. No one can build a house from scratch, make lamps, harvest food. Few people know how to make bullets, and fewer still can do it from scratch. For that matter, gun ownership is frowned upon. The only people who vaguely know these skills still are hobbyists. Which leaves us with no safety net.
Yes, I do believe the U.S. economy is gravely threatened. I just don't think Douglas MacMillan or Marc Hogan understand what's really threatening it. This is just hype with the word "terrorism" attached to it. - chrisgiddings, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Are you an economist? Do you have a degree in economics? I'm guessing probably now.
What you see in China today is not what you will see in China twenty years from now. As a growing econimic powerhouse that recently realized their weight they're poised and ready to take the lead for the worlds largest economy of consumers. Quickly followed by India.
That is not to say that they will not have some hickups along the way given their own governmental styles and the like, but rather that the endgame is the same, driven by what their people want.
China realizes their people want demogracy and open-market trade. This is why they began opening the country up little by little. They can't make the changes all at once because they would end up as Russia has only on a MUCH larger and more impacting scale. The way they chose to go is brilliant. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The CEO of Costco actually does that. He capped his own salary at something like $100k a year, which in CEO terms is pocket change.
- chrisgiddings, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Terrorism is also not a 'new' threat. Terrorist acts have been taken out on the United States throughout history. However, 9/11 provided a homeland terrorism we'd never seen before.
This can be taken in through a comparison to vehicle crashes. You can have a hundred people die at once from a plane crash an the country will feel sympathy. But there is no sympathy or national sadness to the thousands of people who die daily in car accidents because the scale is so much smaller per accident.
The same is true for terrorism. Not that we as a nation don't care for the lives which have been lost, but the media (not dogging the media here) doesn't lead with each and every car crash ina community on their evening news. But if a plan crashed they would.
They won't lead with a terrorist attack that kills one or two, unless part of a string of attacks, but they will lead with a single attack that took the lives of many. - chrisgiddings, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"This article contends that it's a Republican election time strategy to keep people fearful of terrorists. Assuming this statement is true, is that not the definition of terrorism itself? Using fear as a tactic to achieve a goal or desired outcome."
Forget the Republicans and NeoCons... let's take a step back for a moment and look at what a tyrannical oppressive dictatorship looks like from the outside.
1) Dictator seeks to assert full control of government.
- Bush has been working heavily on this. The sad thing is, I really think he believes it's the correct choice here. I don't think he realizes the injustices he is causing America and his fellow Americans. There was little activity of this type in the first year and a half of his presidency. I fail to see how it could have been his goal all along. Cheney is another matter. ;)
2) Dictator seeks to take control of military/police and money.
- Tax cuts which really did benefit the wealthy and not the middle or lower classes in the long term were passed which puts more money in Bush's, his family's and his friends' pockets.
- Military control was asserted post 9/11 for the purpose of hunting down Osama Bin-Laden and the rest of Al-Qaeda. He has twisted the wording of laws long since passed before his presidency to provide him with undeniable power. Several pieces of legislation have passed (Patriot, Liberty, Patriot II and Liberty II) which seek to conjoin major pieces of American power (Military, FBI, CIA, Local Law Enforcement) to fight a battle against an unseen enemy (topic of point 3)
3) Dictator uses fear to control his people.
- Terrorism. Nuff-said. "Voting for democrats is tantamount to an attack on America." or something similar was said by Bush, Cheney, and our own Mr. Lieberman all said similar statements to prevent Connecticut from going away from where it is at right now.
- Terrorists could be home grown. If you have nothing to hide, don't worry about us invading your privacy and not informing you for up to six months. This is the Patriot and Patriot II Acts.
- War in Iraq (not on Iraq... IN Iraq, though it's basically the same damned thing.) If we leave Iraq 'now' we'll just breed more terrorists... This is the rhetoric to continue a war the VAST majority of Americans wish to end, and end NOW, whether we can achieve so called 'victory' or not.
4) Dictator asserts to change the legal system, spy on the people and ignore basic human rights.
- Can we say 'Domestic eavesdropping?' It isn't just illegal. It isn't just a violation of your right to privacy.
- Can we say 'not asking for a warrant to eavesdrop' ?
- Can we say seeking to prevent federal employees from prosecution for crimes against the people? Or against the government itself?
- Can we say Gitmo?
- Can we say arresting people for wearing t-shirts in protest? Hell, how about preventing the lawful and peaceful protest at events where a member of the Bush administration is present?
- Can we say torture?
My opinions. Feedback? -
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