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48 Comments
- PhilPerspective, on 10/17/2009, -0/+24FTA:
"Baseball was called the national pastime not only because it’s a great sport but because it was a sport that was affordable for nearly all American families. You didn’t have to be Bernie Madoff to get good seats at the Stadium or the Polo Grounds or Ebbets Field, or any of the other classic old parks that have since faded — or are fading — into the ether.
Those old parks might have been a bit grimy, and they might have rattled and swayed a bit when the crowd roared, but you couldn’t beat them for fun and excitement if you were there between your mom and your dad — and the hot dogs and Cokes and peanuts and beer were accompanied by the likes of Mays and Mantle and Snider, sometimes in a doubleheader."
Where the heck have doubleheaders gone? And it doesn't seem the same, and I can remember going to see Houston Astros games at the Astrodome and seeing Nolan Ryan or J.R. Richard pitch. - doublefelix, on 10/17/2009, -0/+23He touches on the NFL too, and when you combine exorbitant ticket prices with blackouts you've got a corporate monopoly on two of our national past times. Hate to bring up the diminishing middle-class card, but this IS political. These are many of the same corporations bailed out on the backs of tax payers sitting all smug in their catered and air conditioned skyboxes. This is why I'll always root for "small ball" teams like the Rays over the bloated payrolls found in the Yankees club house. Steinbrenner can suck it, I hope he takes massive losses in the ensuing fan revolt.
- booksnmore4you, on 10/17/2009, -7/+23Welcome to capitalism. Everything is a commodity. Even your very life.
- TM85, on 10/18/2009, -0/+9Well, the joke's on the MLB. An entire generation of fans don't give a ***** about baseball, and it's just now occurring to them that they ***** up...
- deathandtaverns, on 10/18/2009, -3/+9Just take that money you would have spent on tickets and buy your kids a copy of "Atlas Shrugged." Then they'll understand that you just didn't work hard enough to take them to a baseball game.
- gkiltz, on 10/18/2009, -0/+5This is a problem not just for the NY Yankees, but for professional Sports in general.
The only really good deal in all of pro sports is minor-league baseball.
If you are a father of two, you have $50.00 on you and you live in a city with a minor league team, you can take your kids to an entire summer evening of family-friendly entertainment. That includes enough gas to get there and back, parking, a hot dog and soda for each of you, a program for each of you, and all the other little perks. You also get to see players who have something to play for, and something to prove. Players who can't get away with a "mail-it-in" attitude.
Where else can you do THAT? - newms32, on 10/18/2009, -0/+5"The USA is growing in population yet the number of sports teams ALWAYS stays the same."
This is untrue, at least when it comes to baseball. New teams are regularly added according to population growth and redistribution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_team
I just did the math:
1950: 9.41 million people in the US per MLB team
1960: 11.2 (leading to the first expansion teams being established in 1961)
1970: 8.47
1980: 8.71
1990: 9.57
2000: 9.38
Also, the MLB uses a system similar to the one you describe in Uruguay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_team#Baseball - philzone, on 10/18/2009, -7/+11I try and do my part. I never mention sports to my son. Professional sports that is. In our household they don't exist. He comes home from school sometimes with news about the Doncos or some other Denver team. I just side step it and move on as if it's a subject not even worth discussion. The last thing I want him to do is grow up thinking he needs to support some pro team.
- philzone, on 10/18/2009, -1/+5Actually, I wasn't exactly correct. We do discuss pro sports from time-to-time. It's usually when he wants to buy something and I have to explain taxes to him, and how part of his money is going to a millionaire team owner for an expensive stadium that is 50 miles from our house.
We do have an exciting household. I think anyway. We fish. We skateboard. We go dirt hill jumping on our BMX bikes. I don't hunt, but I'm talking to a friend who does so I can get him exposed to that sport.
I think plenty of people feel the need to support a pro team. Just listen to sports talk radio. A waste of Sundays IMO, but I recognize I'm in the minority with that opinion. - bongo, on 10/18/2009, -1/+5It's really a shame that sporting events have become something only the wealthier segments of society can attend. One of the beautiful things about a sport like baseball is that you can talk about it with almost any American in any part of the country, regardless of their social status. It's something that unifies the country. If only the well-off can see ballgames in person, it becomes more of a rich man's game, like golf. Many times I've talked baseball with some guy on the bus, but do you think that would work if I mentioned the latest golf tournament?
- Taiyoryu, on 10/18/2009, -0/+4Hence, soccer (football) is the world's most popular and most played sport. It's cheap, does not require a lot of equipment, and fields can be improvised easily just about anywhere. Being a soccer mom or dad means not having to break the bank.
- cha5e, on 10/18/2009, -1/+4I agree with you and I don't. On the one hand, I see no need to give my money to people who make 100x what I make.
On the other hand, I'm hesitant to support minor leagues...if I'm going to pay to watch a grown man play a game, he'd better be the best there is. - Spoomeister, on 10/18/2009, -0/+3Expansion teams have considerably watered down the talent in MLB. Especially pitching. More marginal pitching talent coming into the majors, and collapsing, then needs specialist relievers. Expansion is one of the more direct causes of the recent phenomenon of guys who only come in for one inning or even one out.
- tradderjohn, on 10/18/2009, -1/+4tidewater tides bleacher seats
Go Tides - Super6, on 10/18/2009, -0/+3Best way to sell tickets: dutch auction starting at $1, the top 20,000 bidders get in, since most games don't sell out you get in for a buck!
- boogerthecat, on 10/18/2009, -2/+5Baseball- *yawns* I can't get too excited about a game that lasts so long that people stand around, spit and scratch their balls.
The pace is just so slow I get sleepy. - twoblueday, on 10/18/2009, -1/+4Boring and Expensive, now there's a formula for success.
- jgzman, on 10/18/2009, -0/+3"Didn't work hard enough to take them to a baseball game."
Really. How hard do you have to work to be allowed to see a baseball game with your kids? - philzone, on 10/18/2009, -0/+3There was a time I used to watch from the first kickoff of the early game to final seconds of the late game. I knew all the names, all the stats, all the stories. One morning after reading the sports page front to back, I thought of an article I read years before that I had long dismissed. In a nutshell it said all sports stories have been told before, only the names change. I realized at that moment it was true. That was ten years ago and I haven't watched a sporting event from start to finish since. Haven't watched five minutes in the past five years. I've found better ways to spend my weekends. It works for me.
- MrSteamTank, on 10/18/2009, -3/+6It's obvious this is happening. Really. Think about it.
The USA is growing in population yet the number of sports teams ALWAYS stays the same. If someone wants to start a new sports team in a city it's next to impossible without poaching it from some other city. Their are no various levels of "leagues".
I'm living in Uruguay and the system they use for soccer is fantastic(I believe European soccer uses a similar system as well). They have an A, a B, and a C league. The C league is amateur and anybody that has a team, equipment, and a field can join. If they do well and can pay player salaries they can get bumped up to the B league and compete. The good B teams move up to the A league and the ***** ones get kicked down. Suddenly, their is an actual incentive to play well.
Could you imagine if the NHL had 3-4 different level leagues going? So even small cities like Minneapolis, Winnipeg, Syracuse, Cleveland, Albany, Saskatoon, and various others could have a team they would route for. Seeing a small town team going to the A league would be cause for celebration meanwhile a big city team that plays like crap gets demoted like it deserves. - yacks, on 10/18/2009, -0/+2baseball? what's baseball?
- inactive, on 10/18/2009, -5/+7Baseball is right up there with watching golf for me.
- jsuther, on 10/18/2009, -0/+2Boxing had already priced themselves out of the market. Most of my generation has grown up never seeing a champion boxing match because they are all on pay per view. The sport of boxing has suffered. I think MMA is recognizing boxing's mistakes and keeping it more accessible to people. Hopefully the MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL will realize this before it is too late.
- ZeroMXI, on 10/19/2009, -0/+2You want an expensive sport? ----> Lacrosse
If you play in a state where it still isn't at Varsity level because not enough schools have the money for the programs...Get ready to spend $200 on a helmet you might have to ditch next season for a new deisgn; $200 on uniforms; $100-200 on a shaft (so funny); $100 on a head (even funnier); $150 for team shoes; $200 for the rest of the pads; $1000+ per summer in camps as well as countless $Hundreds on replacements/repairs/whatever arbitrary team cost exists.
It is the most elitist sport to be this widespread. There is so much talent that cannot afford to get in on this that I have seen a mediocre player from my school ranked top 100 for incoming college freshmen. The reason for this was the $THOUSANDS he spent on scouts/recruiters/camps/programs.
Regular kids cannot compete with this. MANY schools offer Lacrosse spots for players, but do not offer scholarships.
It is pathetic that club Lacrosse rivals D1 in raw ability to play. - MrSteamTank, on 10/18/2009, -0/+2Haha. You're right. Although really the options to watch different more accessable sports are rather slim. It's not like Major League Soccer is any better. It's run in the same fashion as MLB and NHL as far as I'm told.
- NoLibertarians, on 10/18/2009, -3/+4While this is somewhat true it fails to cover all the bases. As a youngster I used to go with my Dad to Memorial Stadium and watch Unitas and the Colts play ( The Baltimore Colts). Also went to tons of Orioles games. My Father never purchased a ticket for any of these games. His company had 20 seats to each game and used them as rewards for dealers hitting goals or prizes for contests.(tax write off). This type of demand for tickets far exceeded that of the single ticket purchaser. Prices will remain sky high as long as corporations are willing to snap up huge blocks of tickets, leaving a wild scramble for the remainder. The football games were sold out. The real die hard fans in baseball bought tickets for the outfield bleachers, which basically required binoculars to see the game. Only reward out there was the occasion home run ball.
- inactive, on 10/18/2009, -1/+2Bob Herbert looks like Frankenstein.
That's the only positive thing I can say about the guy. - jeremyosborne81, on 10/18/2009, -0/+1Indeed. Wish they were still a Mets team, though.
- newms32, on 10/18/2009, -0/+1"If only the well-off can see ballgames in person, it becomes more of a rich man's game, like golf. Many times I've talked baseball with some guy on the bus, but do you think that would work if I mentioned the latest golf tournament?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_oversimplifica ... - WhoDoneIt, on 10/18/2009, -2/+3Sounds like an exciting household. I understand what your goal is but your approach, in my opinion, is all wrong.
Why don't you sit your son down, openly talk to him about professional sports and start a dialogue with him? Explain your position and why you feel that way and let him make up his own mind.
If he's interested in professional sports you should embrace that and while you don't need to cheer a team on with him, you could at least pretend that you are interested when he talks about it.
And I don't know where you'd get the idea that people feel the NEED to support a pro team. - mathcreative, on 10/18/2009, -0/+1or watching reality shows
- reticulate, on 10/18/2009, -0/+1Being as I am half a world away from the States, I always hoped to see a game at Yankee Stadium if I visited NY on a holiday.
Judging by what I've heard, though, tickets are pretty much impossible to get. It's a bit of a downer given it's something I've always wanted to do. - HappyScrappy, on 10/18/2009, -0/+1The article quotes season tickets prices for a family of four as an indication of how what once was affordable is not now? Since when did families have season tickets? I would more quote the price of 4 tickets for 2 games a season, maybe 3 for big baseball fans. And don't forget t add in the overpriced food.
Also the article conflates NYC with the whole country. This is pretty common for New Yorkers.
There are plenty of other cities where you can go watch MLB affordably. One of them is Los Angeles, Dodger tickets are pretty affordable (although season tickets less so), especially for a contending team. - charlie55, on 10/18/2009, -1/+2i have been going to shea stadium/citi field for years now and i rarely pay more than 20. last season i went to a couple games at citi for $11. tickets are easily affordable, by anyone. not behind the dugout, but decent seats with the working class folks.
also the mets bring in thousands of kids each summer for day games for almost nothing through some sort of summer camp program. baseball knows what they are doing, their pricing schemes are very well considered and this guy writing the article is just kinda a dope. - momomathew, on 10/19/2009, -0/+1I am with you, I haven't been to an MLB game in over 15 years. No interest. I have been to many college baseball games, which are awesome.
- Spoomeister, on 10/18/2009, -0/+1"Where the heck have doubleheaders gone?"
Ask the players' union. Boo hoo, it makes us tired, and we might need to get on a plane to get to the next game that night, boo hoo. - EnviroChem, on 10/19/2009, -0/+1I like minor leagues way more. Tickets are cheap, stadiums are small so you're close to the action and the games are more unpredictable. No big name stars, but who cares. Besides you have lots of chances to see players BEFORE they made it big. The players are also less spoiled, their egos haven't gotten away from them and they're still in it for the love of the game.
I typically make it to one Minor League game a year, but have no interest in going to a MLB game. - Spoomeister, on 10/18/2009, -0/+1I definitely think of this when the ballpark has a "salute to kids" day and they can barely get the stadium to be half-full.
Just a suggestion: if those nosebleed seats in right field are consistently not selling, instead of losing money on empty seats and no concessions being sold, why not try cutting the price of those seats in half? The view's not that bad from there, and half the time people are watching the game from other points of view in the park anyway. Even if only a fraction of those extra people bought food / drinks / souvenirs you'd make up the difference in what you cut in the price of the seat. And have a nice full stadium. - momomathew, on 10/19/2009, -0/+1Your kids do not play select or club soccer do they?
- momomathew, on 10/19/2009, -0/+1No ask the owners who like paid attendance for every game. Doubleheaders are two for one, unless you mean a day/night doubleheader.
On a side note, when I lived in San Jose 20 years ago, a couple of times a year you could catch maybe a Giants game in the afternoon and then jump across the bay for an A's game at night. - momomathew, on 10/19/2009, -0/+1The problem is that familys are not going to games as much as they used to. Most of the seats are taken by corporations who use this as a tax write off.
- cmass256, on 10/19/2009, -0/+1The Rockies offer $4 seats, no typo, in their bleachers. They also allow you to bring in sealed beverages and a "soft" cooler full of food. At least someone is still doing it right.
- VigRoco, on 10/19/2009, -0/+1Video Games are the new national pastime. Much more fun and a whole lot cheaper.
- Mizery, on 10/19/2009, -0/+1Nah, golf is more exciting. At least someone hits a ball once in a while in golf.
- XyzzyMagicat, on 10/18/2009, -0/+0I totally agree with your stance, but unfortunately can say it hurts to have a parent react that way...kid ends up wondering first what they did wrong to cause that response, then later on wonders what's wrong with the parent; it doesn't turn the kid away from the interest, just teaches them to not share info that matters to them.
You might have a lot more luck if you explain it to him in terms he can understand, like comparing it to how kids act on the playground, so he thinks it's a cool/superior attitude to have. It might work especially well if you pair it with attending local-team games as a special thing you share -- I've heard local/county teams are a lot more like major-league was in the past. - Switch3130, on 10/21/2009, -0/+0All sport tickets have increased, but I've lost interest in baseball and it's not because of ticket prices. This steroid scandal really threw me away from the sport along with the long season (should be less games). I do find it to be unfair though that ticket prices have been raised drastically since going to a ball game was always loads of fun when I was a kid.
- blackdicklove, on 10/18/2009, -7/+5Baseball was never the National Pastime? It was just a PR tag put on the sport to sell the idea that this modified Cricket game was All American.
- neonoodle, on 10/18/2009, -4/+2The higher the price, the less people will go and sports might finally die out. Then people might start reading books!
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