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With underinflated tires eating up gas, where is the Tweel?

businessshrink.biz — Some 3.56 million gallons of gas are wasted each day because of incorrectly-inflated tires according to the U.S. Department of Energy or $14.2 million in gas a day at $4/gal. In 2004, Michelin shocked the world with a revolutionary airless tire technology that could change transportation as we know it, the Tweel. Four years later, where's Tweel?

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  • ssn697, on 05/29/2008, -0/+160"If the time table stays in line with stated remarks from Michelin, these new integrated tire and wheel hybrids will be on cars and rolling down our roads by mid 2010."

    That is where the Tweel is...
    • Ansible, on 05/29/2008, -16/+26Sweet! I can hardly wait to start replacing my entire wheel when it wears out, instead of just the tire. Sheer genius!
      • KLowD9x, on 05/30/2008, -2/+7+1

        At least I know my $1500 every 45,000 miles will be used to save me 63 cents between fillups if I forget to properly inflate my current pneumatic tires!
      • EtherGnat, on 05/30/2008, -0/+37The tread is replaceable, and I see no reason to criticize it until we know whether the cost is competitive. A far bigger concern is the vibration and noise at high speeds.
        • KLowD9x, on 05/30/2008, -12/+5Oh, retreads.

          Have you ever been on a highway and looked on the shoulder?
        • EtherGnat, on 05/30/2008, -0/+15It's not a retread, it's how the wheel is designed to work. It's the same concept as replacing the tire on a traditional wheel.
        • KLowD9x, on 05/30/2008, -12/+1Then that's not just replacing the tread!
        • spiffytech, on 05/30/2008, -0/+15Replacing the rubber on the Tweel, which is designed from the start for bonding new rubber with an existing frame, is different from bonding new rubber with old rubber, which is very much a hack-job, hence the blowouts on the freeway. Rubber parts were never designed to be grafted together, while I'm sure the Tweel has hooks and grooves that make the frame and rubber fit and stay together.
      • Devrdander, on 05/30/2008, -0/+10The future car video said that you can just retread the Tweel you dont replace the whole setup.
      • specialbuddy1, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3Well they said on tv that they use 25% of the rubber used for regular tires because the tread is just replaced rather then both the sidewalls and tread.
    • madwh, on 05/30/2008, -8/+3I think it's going to be big in the near future but it's not really an invention... in essence it's the ancient wheel made of rock but more flexible or like a wheel from Flintstone's car but made of plastics and more flexible. They didn't re-invent the wheel, really not much of a big invention but it would sure help us in many ways and has anyone noticed that the "big" inventions lately are not really inventions? They're just simplified previous inventions that make you wonder "how come didn't I think of that until now?" I'm not saying there's nothing left to invent but it's they way it seems to be right now.
      • ssn697, on 05/30/2008, -0/+5"We didn't make it. We just made it better"
      • DM01, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3I've had non-inflatable innertubes in my bike for a long time, they are completely solid and quite heavy, but I don't have to worry about replacing the innertube or fixing flats.
      • TVarmy, on 05/30/2008, -1/+7They're revisiting an old design. We took an evolutionary side-trip while designing tires. Pnumatic air satisfied what solid wheel and spokes weren't doing properly, i.e. absorbing shock and getting low rolling resistance. Now, we have modern materials and engineering knowledge to create materials that are better at those properties than air.

        This is analogous to electric cars, which were better commercial successes than gasoline cars before the starter engine was developed. Electric cars were clean, could be charged at home, and were safer to operate than gas cars, which had many parts which could break and needed to be cranked, and if the engine started up too quickly for the driver to react, it could break his/her arm. Then, the starter engine came about, as well as the Model T, which undercut the competition with cutting edge construction techniques. Gasoline was now easier to use, cheap, and widely available, and newer designs of gas engines went faster than electric motors. Of course, nowadays many people consider fully electric cars to be the next development for vehicles once battery technology improves both in terms of stored range and time to charge.
    • mofw, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1in the future.
    • miiiindriiiis, on 05/30/2008, -3/+1It looks disgusting.
      • stk198323, on 05/30/2008, -1/+2I think Michelin has more thing's to worry about then the physical appearance of there Tweel!

        But I,m pretty sure that when there out, some company will make modified version so you can put on your freaking riced out civic and show-off to everyone!
  • RockSlice, on 05/29/2008, -2/+17Wonder if they've solved the problem with noise at high (65mph) speeds yet...
    Also, I really hope they enclose them, or else dirt getting caught will seriously deteriorate the fuel economy boost.
    • webaddict, on 05/29/2008, -8/+4That's a really good point on the side being opened and getting dirt, rocks and debree in it. There was another hybrid model built off this idea that used a see through center. I'm pretty certain it's not the same flexing type of technology though.
      • WiseWeasel, on 05/29/2008, -2/+21'debris'
      • thatsmyaibo, on 05/30/2008, -0/+15Who says the actual product would not have tire walls? People want their cars to not only be efficient but they want them to be attractive. I'm sure what you see here is a prototype to show how the technology works.
        • badjoke, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2All you'd need is a sidewall with air holes in it to regulate pressure when the wheel goes over a bump or something.

          I know I'd rather have a regular looking tire than exposed rubber spokes.
    • jasdf, on 05/30/2008, -2/+8Not to mention being horribly out of balance.
      • stk198323, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1With a Tweel, the tire can adjust it's shape to compensate for some out of balance calibration. With a normal tire this ain't possible because the tire by itself is not MADE to deform. It does when going over bumps and can still adjust a bit, but it's just the rubber from the tire that get's squished more or less depending wheter the car is balanced or not, but with Tweel, the whole design canmodify itself to compensate.

        It might not be perfect at first, but on the long term we will see at lot less balance, and direction problem from such a tire due to it's ability to adapt to your car geometry.
        • jasdf, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1I'm talking about having a big rock jammed in the spokes. It will throw the whole wheel out of balance when it spins.
    • TVarmy, on 05/30/2008, -4/+3I have a feeling the videos have open tires just to show off the technology. I imagine there'll be some type of enclosure. Maybe it'll look different than a normal tire covering for marketing/engineering reasons, but there's no way they'll leave it open.

      Plus, little kids love to play with rubber things on a spoke. Imagine having to shoo them away every time you make an ice cream run!
    • charlietuna, on 05/30/2008, -0/+4Or when a creature makes a nest in there only to be spun out into the wheel well.
    • mabhatter, on 05/30/2008, -1/+2dirt other than superficial smudges won't stick to the spinning tire hardly at all. As far as balance, the only reason tires need balanced is that they have so many interfacing pieces. moulding technology is far superior, compared to the cheap steel rims and warping current tire parts get in their lifetime.

      I'm interested in how much material is saved... that translates to less oil being used to make these.
    • Culyt, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1The way they look now is very reminiscent of a cart wheel, nice to see technology coming full circle. Maybe it will appeal to the Armish community.
  • allaboutdatiki, on 05/29/2008, -1/+90OTOH, the noise problem could be a big plus for those hybrids that are accused of being too quiet .. =)
    • webaddict, on 05/29/2008, -2/+8Haha, geesh everyone is full of great comments and solutions today. Seriously the noise problem really would solve any issues with the hybrids. Crazy idea but so simple. :P
      • EtherGnat, on 05/30/2008, -0/+5Except the noise problem for the tweel is at high speeds, where a hybrid isn't exactly silent anyway. The complaints I've seen about hybrids concern them starting up from stoplights silently and the like.
    • rlh1, on 05/29/2008, -0/+10I don't see any advantage to adding noise to cities that are nothing but noise already. I really really really hate car noise......I live on a busy street.
      • Velirno, on 05/30/2008, -2/+1Exactly, hybrids and the like will help reduce noise pollution. Drivers and pedestrians will just have to be more mindful of their surroundings. Of course, I've had all sorts of cars almost hit me in the city when I try to cross...no matter how much noise there is.
      • NnyCW, on 05/30/2008, -0/+7Blind people tend to not like large and heavy silent things moving at high speeds.
      • DemonCold9, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Wire the governor to trip the carhorn when the car accelerates from 0. Problem solved.
    • FuckThaMeme, on 05/29/2008, -8/+6Hybrids are a cyclist's worst enemy.

      ...more than SUVs
      • saleem, on 05/30/2008, -0/+23dont rely on the sound of a car. check to see if there's a car there. what's the problem?
        • Lukesed, on 05/30/2008, -1/+3Exactly, he's an athlete in the 21st century, he should be wearing headphones. What use is engine noise?
        • FuckThaMeme, on 05/31/2008, -0/+1I need to look where the ***** I'm going you know.

          It's quite startling, especially if a Hybrid passes you at quite a close range, because they're so quiet and you're not expecting it.
      • ThndrShk2k, on 05/30/2008, -1/+1The only problem is when a quiet car is coming up on you in a noisy area. That is the problem, as not every cyclist has mirrors.

        However, the car itself does make a decent amount of noise when rolling anyway, just not as much as if it had a noisy engine.
        • EvilJelloMan, on 05/30/2008, -0/+9uh, then buy some ***** mirrors? Seriously, you people are suggesting fuel efficient cars should add artificial noise so you don't have to have mirrors on your bike?

          This whole "quiet hybrids are deadly" line of ***** is ***** stupid.
        • gradivus, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3Its along the same lines of "wind turbines kill birds". Total *****.
      • theRIAA, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1the problem is idiot ***** drivers.
    • davidrools, on 05/30/2008, -1/+6The hybrid low noise "problem" isn't a problem at all. It's a blessing. Everyone just needs to start using their eyes more. Rather than maintain the archaic status quo, let's adapt.

      Adding noise...that's like lighting a coal fire next to a solar panel because you had nothing else to use the coal for. It would be like limiting the first automobiles to 5 mph because people were used to horses & carriages.
      • H4n90fThur5D4y5, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Most of the complaints I've seen about hybrids' lack of noise relate to the fact that they are a potential danger to visually impaired pedestrians.
        • sienar, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1well, then they shouldn't be walking alone if they can't see the huge heavy objects rolling down the street
      • passedoutghost, on 05/30/2008, -0/+0Says you. My university has these electric 'buggys'. They're completely silent and god knows how many times I've had one sneak up on my ass and nearly had me run over.
      • stk198323, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1''It would be like limiting the first automobiles to 5 mph because people were used to horses & carriages. ''


        Bad bad bad idea! The first automobile were limited to such speed! Dont tempt the government ofccicial with an historic precedent :P
  • tastypickles, on 05/29/2008, -10/+1Cool
  • kprooney, on 05/29/2008, -1/+19agreed, I want my new set of tweels
  • dave122, on 05/29/2008, -4/+2saw something about this on history or discorvery the other day.
  • wavesmachine, on 05/29/2008, -13/+46what about cornering though? anyone else feel terrified about turning a corner with those on.
    • scribby, on 05/29/2008, -1/+23I wouldn't be terrified at all and would trust this design over a tire that could lose air or break the bead under hard cornering.

      "The inner hub contains a matrix of deformable plastic structures that flex under load and return to their original shape. By varying the thickness and size of the spokes, Michelin can generate a wide array of ride and handling qualities."

      "the design of the spokes allows the vertical and lateral stiffness to be tuned independently"

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweel
      • SatansSpatula, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2Can you show me documented evidence of a modern, properly inflated tire breaking its bead under cornering?
        • aelias, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1It happens all the time. I checked my pressure daily and still had the bead pop when I left it sit and get cold. It happens more with low profile tires. Even racing tires that cost four times as much as mine have it happen. Wheel composition can affect it as well. The neat thing about these are the low mass design. It decreases unsprung weight better than any aluminum wheel.

          I'm in Scribby's camp I guess. Michelin is arguably the best tire manufacturer in the world. If they say it's badass, I believe them.I prefer Bridgestone, because I'm a Tifosi, but I would feel more than happy with a new set of Michys/
        • stk198323, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Happened to me in one of my friend's car... accelerating from o to 100 km/h then just a little curve and when he put the car back straight the whole air in the tire was gone... Probably didn't like to accelerate at full throtle from 0 - 100 but it still happen! it doesn't need to happen often in order to put you in an important accident or even kill you, so no it's not a FREQUENT thing but it does happen!
        • SatansSpatula, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1What the ***** are you guys talking about? Your bead should not come off the ***** rim just because you lost air pressure!? You have a serious problem, either with your tire, your rim, or both.

          Anyone who thinks a healthy bead is that easy to get off a rim needs to try changing a tire by hand. There's a reason those huge ***** machines are in use at ever tire shop.
      • YonicSouth, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1The major challenge, besides noise, was the RATIO of vertical and lateral stiffnesses. The ratio of stiffnesses is on the order of FIVE times higher than in a current radial pneumatic tire.
      • YonicSouth, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1scribby, your wheels have something called a safety hump to prevent the bead from coming off the wheel.
    • jpaolini, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3Interesting note there on how the spokes can have such an impact.

      Those pictures don't really show us how thick the tires are though, and from those shots they look very thin and narrow. That's what worries me the most.
      • davidrools, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3The tires on your car right now aren't much thicker. And why does it worry you? These things won't be affected by nails and screws the way pneumatic tires are.
    • Evolutuon, on 05/30/2008, -1/+2http://onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/ ...
    • Gizza, on 05/30/2008, -0/+53Yeah, because I'm sure when Michelin designed this thing they completely overlooked the fact that people might want to turn corners while using them.
      • TVarmy, on 05/30/2008, -7/+2They're French. Clearly, they designed it with driving to socialized hospitals in mind, which are ALWAYS driven to in straight lines.
        • Virgule, on 05/30/2008, -2/+5there is cheap jabs, ***** cheap jabs then there is your comment.
    • isaactwito, on 05/30/2008, -2/+7I'd worry more about gangsters. Since when is it dope to be ballin' on 24 inch twrims?
    • alby13, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1they were saying that these tweels actually perform better than standard wheels and tire combinations. i think they were comparing high strength wheels, such as forged wheels, and low profile tires with stiff sidewalls.
      sound like good news for us performance minded enthusiasts.
    • BobOki, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2Mr. Spork brings a point to the table, however, I have a problem thinking this would actually be an issue in getting the wheels out. People are people, and it sounds like you are trying to dumb the processes down beyond what is feasible. I am sure should the tread get thin/weak there would be a way to put in something to allow the driver to feel the problem, or like brakes, make it squeel. After that the responsibility falls on the driver to get off their ass and fix the vehicle.
      You are not making it any less dangerous with a tweel than you are with an under inflated tire blowing out and causing a flip over.
      As for the under inflated feeling, the tweel rolls differently. The inflatable tire has air that pushes the tire outwards, warping the tread. The tweel does not have any outward thrusting forces to warp how the tread is laid, so it is always perfect. Any additional pressure is absorbed by the inn spokes, not by the bottom/side of the tire. In a inflatable tire when force comes down on the tire, it warps the bottom and sides as the air is pushed back upwards in the tire, the side bulge out and can touch the ground, causing all kinds of problems and wear. In the tweel, the downward force is absorbed in the spokes, distributing it along the entire lower spoke section, leaving a level perfect traction base on the bottom of the tire. This means less wear all the time, and 100% "proper" inflation through the life of the tire.

      Lastly, you want to really enjoy reading the gas prices, go back to when gas was cheap. Look at the amount of oil futures. Follow that time line until you see oil futures get like 9.9 billion suddenly pumped into them (*hint, check when Bush came in office) and see immediately what happened to the price of gas. Continue to follow that line.. each time the oil futures is increased, the price of gas increases as well.... I think you will no longer even bother to listen to the ***** that comes out of our govt concerning the price of fuel anymore.
      • YonicSouth, on 06/01/2008, -0/+1Boboki, pneumatic tires and the tweel BOTH work on tension, not compression. Thank you for showing everyone that you're more than willing to BS w/o any actual knowledge.
        P.S. I've been working as an engineer in the tire industry for the last 3 years.
  • dafunkmonster, on 05/29/2008, -25/+16Instead of educating people on proper car maintenance, we invent something to allow us to become dumber and lazier without consequence...

    Air compressors are free to use at all gas stations. Tire gauges are cheap. People are stupid.
    • xutopia, on 05/29/2008, -8/+3Stupid no... lazy yes. I don't want to have to check my tire pressure 4 times a year. I could spend those 12 minutes doing something productive (or fun) instead.
      • dafunkmonster, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1Maintaining your car's mileage and safety isn't productive?
    • mrgodai, on 05/29/2008, -0/+20"Air compressors are free to use at all gas stations."
      that's probably true depends on where you are.
      Around a 30 mile radius near where I live in S FL, I only come across ONE station that's free.
      Most of stations charge anywhere from $0.50 to $1.00 to get air + water
      • whiteknives, on 05/29/2008, -0/+6Not sure if it's California or the whole US - but here in California, gas stations are required to provide free air/water if you buy gas. Just walk up to the counter and ask the guy to turn the pump on.
        • sdub74, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2You don't even have to buy gas. Whenever I'm low, I just ask them to turn on the air. Never had a problem yet.
        • AceyS, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2Yeah in Oregon some stations will just turn it on but I've had stations claim they don't own the machines and can't do anything about it. its $.75 here almost across the board. Sucks when you have low profile tires and drive like a maniac....
      • dafunkmonster, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1Ok, then I guess you could do a cost/benefit analysis of either paying a dollar every time you need to pressurize your tires, or paying $150 once for your very own air compressor (plus the cost of electricity to keep the tank charged).
    • crapuccino, on 05/29/2008, -1/+25> Air compressors are free to use at all gas stations.

      Maybe where you live ...
      • MikeSD34, on 05/30/2008, -1/+4And only if they actually work, which is a real crap shoot when you really need it.
    • nourkah, on 05/29/2008, -4/+5i really don't see how filling up your tires with air correlates to a person's intelligence. air isn't free either. tool.
      • TVarmy, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2O shi, I forgot to pay the air bill! Somebody call a doctor... :)
      • dafunkmonster, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1I don't suppose you see the correlation between use of the 'shift' key and intelligence either.
    • romistrub, on 05/29/2008, -4/+8Your logic is absolutely retarded (slippery slope: why don't we just build our own cars?! Instead, we invent these production lines that let people become dumber and lazier without consequence.)

      Society *needs* to take things for granted. It's how we evolve! Let me guess, you're also going to bitch when vehicles are finally automated.
      • TVarmy, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Proper slippery slope: Instead of walking, which requires maintenance on your body you probably already carry out, we use cars and bicycles so we can be dumb and lazy instead of planning on walking to work in an hour and a half instead of 20 minutes.
      • dafunkmonster, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1Yes, I AM going to bitch when vehicles are finally automated. I enjoy driving my manual. I have also never gotten in an accident (one of the main arguments for automated vehicles).

        While technology allows some people to accomplish better, more important things, it generally enables most of society to become lazier and more intellectually atrophied.
    • provost, on 05/29/2008, -2/+4so does anyone who gets a flat tire or a blowout stupid? yah, your logic doesn't hold up for the practicality of these tires, er.. wheel thingies.
    • spaceman84, on 05/30/2008, -0/+5Hey retard, lower rotation mass = greatly improved fuel efficiency and much shorter braking distance. It was invented to improve performance, not to eliminate tire maintenance. The fact that you don't have to inflate them is simply a side benefit of the design. It was by no means the intent. In case you forgot, Michelin is in the business of selling people rubber. They're not going to eliminate their primary source of income.
      • dafunkmonster, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1I'm sorry, maybe I missed the SCCA endorsement of tweels in this article. Maybe you could point it out for me?

        I bet the NHRA will jump right on this, too.

        If you're buying tires for performance, you're going to want to adjust the air pressure to your needs. For drag cars, raising/lowering tire pressure by a few psi can make an 11 second car a 10 second car. I don't see these tweels as practical in the racing world.

        And as for rotational inertia (I'm not really sure what rotation mass is), most of the rotational inertia of a tire comes from the thick mass of rubber that contacts the pavement, farthest from the point of rotation. Please show me the math that proves that eliminating the radial wall in exchange for spokes will not only decrease rotational inertia, but also improve cornering as well.

        There's a reason why drag cars use drag slicks. They only go in a straight line. There's a reason why sports cars use radials. They have to turn.
    • TVarmy, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1The main point is that we need a better tire, regardless of society. If it's more convenient, so much the better.
    • InnerRayg, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Are new tires free too? Cuz I'm pretty sure you have to replace them, but with your impeccable logic they apparently last forever like these "Tweels".
  • webaddict, on 05/29/2008, -16/+5@dafunkmonster Air compressors in California are .75 cents for like 2 minutes.... does that make you stupid?

    P.S. Work smarter not harder.
    • superheroboy, on 05/29/2008, -1/+14The reply button is your friend.

      P.S. Reply smarter, not harder.
    • Dipster, on 05/29/2008, -0/+14By law, in California, Air compressor use at gas stations is free to customers.

      All you have to do is go ask the attendant/clerk in most cases.
      • surfmore, on 05/30/2008, -1/+4Dipster is right, it's a state law.
    • themonkman, on 05/30/2008, -3/+5If you've been paying .75 for two minutes of compressed air, then your being an idiot. It clearly states on the signs above the air compressors here in CA that state law requires them to allow you to use the compressor if you purchased gas there. Even if I don't personally purchase gas, the attendant will turn on the pump for me. It's really not that hard to do. If you really want to, you can buy a cheap car cigarette lighter powered pump and keep it in your trunk. I got mine for around $35.
      • shaelen, on 05/30/2008, -1/+3It might be wise to know the correct spelling of "you're" if you are going to use it in the same sentence as "idiot." ;)
        • themonkman, on 05/30/2008, -2/+1Ok. How about this. You're a grammar Nazi. Better? I'm you were just giggling with pleasure when you left that response, weren't you?
  • bernandoo, on 05/29/2008, -10/+4What happens when you drive through a 4 inch puddle? wouldn't that create problems for an open tire?
    • SoCalChris, on 05/30/2008, -5/+28-12 inch puddles, deep mud, snow, ice from snow drifting in while parked, etc... These might work good in the city, but for people living in rural areas they don't look like they'd last long at all.
    • Gizza, on 05/30/2008, -0/+7This things had been worked on for almost 15 years now. You don't think that perhaps they've thought of situations like that?
      • Velirno, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3I mean...they just close them up *shrug.
    • Tenlow, on 05/30/2008, -0/+11Looks like it'll act like a tire. You know, continuing to turn and all that.
    • BlackJackJester, on 05/30/2008, -0/+7I'm going to guess, the water will probably drain out, seeing how rubber isn't absorbant
    • Lukesed, on 05/30/2008, -2/+1Without the air adding buoyancy wouldn't these tires act better in water?
  • romistrub, on 05/29/2008, -1/+171) Wouldn't this make spike strips obsolete? Not necessarily a bad thing, but I wonder what will replace them.
    2) Calling these "maintenance-free" is a bit of a misnomer. Obviously less maintainance, but the material will degrade just like other tires, eventually requiring replacement.
    • inevitablity, on 05/29/2008, -2/+01) If memory serves correct, I believe there is a device law enforcement is developing to short out the electrical system of a car there by disabling it. At least I think thats how I remember it.

      Should show up in a few years if that video proves true.
      • TheGuruStud, on 05/30/2008, -0/+5Like on the "fast and the total unrealistic" movie?

        What are they going to do? Get a high voltage charge to hit ground (steel in your car) to run through the battery in reverse and fry the ECU?
        Possible, yes I guess. Probable, no. I would just install diodes or voltage protection on all ground lines.

        I guess they could EMP blast your car, but anything caught in the crossfire is toast as well.
        • SatansSpatula, on 05/30/2008, -0/+4"but anything caught in the crossfire is toast as well."

          Caught in the crossfire? As in, something between the road and the bottom of your car? Lemme tell ya, bud, if you're clinging to the underside of a car fleeing the police, the EMP blast is the least of your worries.

          Think it through. You could construct a strip which could trigger one of several EMP points depending on where a car drives over it. Effectively, its precision would be on-par with a spike strip, which also covers a large area, would trash *anything* that runs over it, and doesn't affect anything not driving over it (i.e. within reasonable range of the EMP pulse).

          Alternatively, imagine if they were in cahoots with the auto manufacturers to provide a coded signal which would kill any car at will.
        • inevitablity, on 05/30/2008, -2/+0***** I totally dugg you down by accident, sorry!
        • Super6, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1I remember watching a show on new police technology and they had a little box on wheels mounted on the front of the patrol cars and when they got behind the suspect they woud hit a button, the box would drop, rockets would fire, and an EMP would be emitted. More elaborate than something like an EMP strip but still possible.
        • thebaron2, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2@inevitability

          You're allowed to change your digg now - just click the other thumb twice. Once to reset it to no diggs, again to digg it up.
        • TheGuruStud, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1They have something thin enough that has enough power? Gimme link, I want to see it in action.
          If so, I will just super shield everything and put it in metal conduit! Take that coppers!
        • TheGuruStud, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2And *gasp* what if I go carbureted?!?!? haha, they'd be so pissed when it fails.
      • KLowD9x, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1On Board Diagnostics version III.

        Wireless communication based and I will put money on there being a back door for law enforcement access to simple controls, like the pulse width of the injectors. Possibly a quick selection for "0ms".
        • Lukesed, on 05/30/2008, -1/+3How on earth do you propose that something like that be distributed to millions of law enforcement officials without normal people being able to obtain or make them? Somebody could walk around with a little remote control in their pocket and cause a ton of crashes.
        • KLowD9x, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1The same way current equipment is distributed to law enforcement?

          I don't see people running around with Toughbooks connected to the same network that the police use to check personal records.
        • Lukesed, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Do you really not see the difference between a device that just has to emit a code at some frequency and a wired network? You wouldn't even have to know how to solder to put one of these things together. You have all of the problems with putting an open backdoor in a program except the consequences are physical rather than digital. We realized that model was stupid in computers twenty years ago, please don't put thousands of pounds of force behind it.
        • KLowD9x, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1That's funny, because to unlock and start my car, all I have to have is a device in my pocket (that comes with the vehicle) which emits a code at a certain frequency. This is true for many car manufacturers today. The wireless systems are here and you don't hear anything about ANYONE walking up to a car with a home built system and driving away. That's because these systems are very good. Why wouldn't the law enforcement system be just as secure?

          Believe me, it can be done. And with CAN networks becoming a standard next year, taking full control of a car would be as simple as pushing a button.
        • Lukesed, on 05/31/2008, -0/+1What, now you want a different code for every car? This is getting crazier and crazier. There is a reason why cops have to force the door or pick the lock when they need to get into a car, even if it has a wireless key.
      • inevitablity, on 05/30/2008, -0/+0Sorry next time I remember something I'll hunt down the link first.

        http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/19699/

        This is what I remembered seeing, pretty cool but the article does state it may be too dangerous to ever actually use in law enforcement.
    • spaceman84, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3By "maintenance" they mean checking air pressure regularly and inflating the tires as needed. Unless of course, you consider buying new tires every 1-2 years to be "regular maintenance".
    • badjoke, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2They could take a clue from batman with an oil slick or something!
    • tavisjohn, on 05/30/2008, -0/+4Not really, The military has a new version that can even stop large trucks, and cars with those RunFlat tires. it is a large mesh that grabs the tires with spikes and winds around the front wheels and axles. It stops everything from small compact cars to large semi tractors with a full load behind them. (And even large military autos)
    • alby13, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2what happened to road blocks, or letting them run out of gas like they do in California? i don't think it's as big of a concern as you make it out to be.
  • CDoug03, on 05/29/2008, -34/+1under inflated tires don't affect gas mileage.
    • jpaolini, on 05/30/2008, -0/+7Says who? Your Prius-driving mother-in-law?
    • legoalert33, on 05/30/2008, -1/+9Keep driving with 15 PSI then.
    • tehbored, on 05/30/2008, -1/+2It's your money.
    • ryan83189, on 05/30/2008, -1/+2let some air out of your bike tires and go for a ride, and tell me air pressure doesn't matter.
  • BlueSkyfish, on 05/29/2008, -9/+4Why does it take 4 years to put a tire into production after it was already designed and ready?
    • scabbers, on 05/30/2008, -0/+9Safety tests for a start.
      • tehbored, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1That's true. The test have to be quite extensive for a radical product like this.
    • davidrools, on 05/30/2008, -0/+7Lawyers. Seriously if they released this thing without extensive testing and quality assurance, they'd get their pants sued off as soon as some idiot got in an accident that was completely avoidable but possibly marginally attributable to the tire. It'll probably happen anyway upon release, but at least Michellin will have the data to back up the fact that what they made was thoroughly tested.

      And there's production ramp up, marketing, distribution, supply chain, etc.
  • borez, on 05/29/2008, -14/+4Where is the tweel?

    The tyre companies probably bought all the patents

    • megaton, on 05/30/2008, -1/+11Michelin, a tire company, invented it.

      Was that unclear when you didn't read the article?
      • borez, on 05/30/2008, -8/+2You're right Sherlock I didn't read the article, but I did read about the Tweel a few years ago and I've been reading a lot about companies buying patents to stifle competition lately.

        One day you'll read enough yourself to be able to distinguish a topical joke without a /tag pointing the ***** obvious out?
        • megaton, on 05/30/2008, -0/+5Did that last sentence start out as a statement and then end as a question?
        • Sagags, on 05/30/2008, -1/+2just ignore borez, he is obviously mentally handicap.
    • Densetsu, on 05/30/2008, -0/+5True, but moot. You know, since Michelin was the one who invented it in the first place.
    • Sagags, on 05/30/2008, -1/+3did you just spell tire as tyre? seriously?
    • davidrools, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2Well borez's point is still valid. Because Michelin owns the patent, they can keep it off the market if it won't help their bottom line.
  • bottlesandcans, on 05/30/2008, -11/+12S.U.V.'S are more of an issue than tires.
    • MeatyMcBeef, on 05/30/2008, -4/+4Ever try driving a Geo Metro in Central New York in mid December? Don't. You will die. Small vehicles are awesome on gas but some parts of the country SUVs and trucks are almost a requirement during the winter.
      • regeya, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3In the winter, the first cars I see in the snow are the 4x4s and SUVs. I drive by in my small car and laugh heartily.

        Obviously we don't get a whole heaping lot of lake-effect snow though.
        • stk198323, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Living in Canada, we have plenty of Yaris, Aveo, ForTwo, etc.

          Snow has nothing to do with it! Your safer in a FWD small car then on a RWD huge SUV!

          Just learn to drive geez.
    • H0tKarl, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1It's only an issue if you choose to buy one.
    • omelette, on 05/30/2008, -0/+5What does that even mean? SUV's are an issue? Why? SUV's may present more challenges in figuring out how to make them use less fuel than something smaller, but your statement makes it sound like even if we managed to solve the fuel issue, that SUV's would still be an "issue" of their own. It's people like you who give me flak for driving a pickup truck (mine runs on flexfuel and drops down to using only 4 cylinders unless I'm gunning it) but leaves my wife in her sports car alone... even though we get nearly the same gas mileage and she has to make 3 trips to the grocery store in a week if the truck isn't available. I'm willing to buy into whatever technology I have to in order to be "greener" but I'm never going to drive around in a wardrobe-sized vehicle.
      • SatansSpatula, on 05/30/2008, -0/+5This is why I'm going to buy a Prius, gut it, and put in a Chevy 350, with headers coming out the hood.

        Then I will drive around giving the thumbs-up and high-fiving all the holier-than-though assholes I can find.
    • Buelldozer, on 05/30/2008, -1/+1Minivans don't get substantially better mileage than SUVs.
    • alby13, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1speaking of SUVs, the tweel could have saved all those firestone tire blowouts that they had.
    • sladek, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1There is no need for the ' in SUVs. The ' would suggest the SUV is in possession of something.
  • darkhero, on 05/30/2008, -8/+3My car tells me when I have low air pressure. I am pretty sure this is standard on all new cars.
    • Densetsu, on 05/30/2008, -1/+1Nope, still an option. And even if it was, there's still a ton of vehicles that (a) were built before it (didn't) become standard and (b) need tires.
    • jhandfield, on 05/30/2008, -2/+1I believe so, either very recently or sometime in the not-so-distant future.

      For those of us without the sensors, just get to know your car. Tires will lose air over time, get a feel for how quickly they do and know to hop over to a gas station (or get your own compressor) and boost them back up every now and then. And as for out of the ordinary air loss, so long as you know how much your tires normally flex and feel like, a quick once over or poke with a finger will tell you if you're getting low.
      • stk198323, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Are yo uerious there? By the time your tire has lost that much air they would have become quite a freaking danger to you and everyone around you! A poke with a finger? You would have to loose like at least 20% of your tire pressure to be able to feel the differecne this way and that would have a great influence on your capacity to turn your vehicule!
        • jhandfield, on 06/08/2008, -0/+1Ever poked your car's tires? At 32psi the tire has some give to it, there's a noticeable difference between 32psi and, say, 26psi using your 20% example, which isn't in and of itself inherently dangerous, that's very close to suggested inflation pressure for some vehicles (or in the case of my Mitsubishi, it is the suggested pressure for the rear).
  • shof515, on 05/30/2008, -6/+1why does digg kill the server?
  • jynweythek, on 09/17/2008, -13/+9buried for the ***** grammar in the article. you don't need an apostrophe when indicating plurality.
  • 41k1d0k4, on 05/30/2008, -9/+4Good for a commuter car, no good for a performance car or motorcycle
    • OriginalReplica, on 05/30/2008, -1/+5According to the Gizmag article they outperform all current tires. "Michelin has also found that it can tune Tweel performances independently of each other, which is a significant change from conventional tires. This means that vertical stiffness (which primarily affects ride comfort) and lateral stiffness (which affects handling and cornering) can both be optimised, pushing the performance envelope in these applications and enabling new performances not possible for current inflated tires."
      • krnldmp, on 05/30/2008, -1/+2Yeah right. Let us know when you start seeing these on race cars because they actually outperform pneumatic radials.
      • 41k1d0k4, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Negative camber is what first came to mind. weight and speed is still an issue for the tweel. Over 60kph the thing vibrates heavily, generating heat and noise. I'll stick with my 10" Yokohamas. I think you'd be hard pressed to ever see these on SCCA pro-class cars. Certain characteristics are desirable in an inflated tyre.

        As for motorcycles, tell me how you'd take a 160 degree turn, without the traditional multi arc profile, on the tweel?

  • megaton, on 05/30/2008, -5/+8A video presentation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqRJ9GfIJtI

    (No, not a Rick-roll... get it? "roll"?)
    • arusso, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1... I almost didn't click it because i felt I would be getting the ol' rr...

      Nice find...
    • zspeed78, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Watching that guy is like watching a presentation in highschool.
  • vroom101, on 05/30/2008, -1/+3How the Tweel Airless Tire Works
    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/tweel-airless-tire.h ... (auto.howstuffworks.com/tweel-airless-tire.htm/printable)
  • Barackalypse, on 05/30/2008, -6/+4Put into perspective, in 2004 we consumed 380 million gallons of gasoline per day, so this savings is less then 1%, or a trivial amount.
    http://genomicsgtl.energy.gov/biofuels/transportat ...
    • EtherGnat, on 05/30/2008, -1/+101% is NOT a trivial amount. It might not save the world on its own, but things like this can really add up.
      • Barackalypse, on 05/30/2008, -2/+3It's less then 1%, and yes, these things can add up, someday to 1%, or maybe even 2%. Meanwhile I'll continue to advocate for researching things like electric cars that have to potential to completely eliminate all gasoline consumption for non-recreational transportation.
      • LilRabbitFooFoo, on 08/11/2008, -2/+1You're just prolonging the use of a dying industrial age technology we should have starting replacing decades ago.
        • EtherGnat, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3The tweel is not mutually exclusive with alternative fuels. Unless you're suggesting personal jetpacks are the future we'll still need wheels.

          We'll have to use every tool at our disposal if we're going to seriously address our energy problems.
    • FairDinkumMate, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3Considering Bush just went to the Saudi's begging for them to increase oil supply by less than 0.3%(300,000 barrels per day), I'd say 1% is pretty huge!
    • LilRabbitFooFoo, on 08/11/2008, -1/+1It IS trivial. All this money and effort should go into adding solar cells to every building roof in the country. That would eliminate the need for foreign oil entirely...forever. No more wars in the Mideast, better for the environment, American jobs at home, etc. etc.
      • stk198323, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1So instead of Michelin doing it's own reasearch to make new projects which save energy you want them to do nothing at all and wait until the government decide to do something?

        It's Michelin who reasearch these thing's, not your freaking government! Did you even read the article?
  • olliholliday, on 05/30/2008, -6/+1what happens when the tweel nears the end of its life?
    i can imagine catastrophic failure coming pretty quick with one of these at high speeds, much like a tyre blowout.
    • distrachi, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3it seems to me it's pretty much impossible to have a catastrophic failure with the tweel. Look at how many "spokes" are supporting the outside tread? You'd have to have a failure of like 10 of those spokes at the same time in the same part of the tire just to make it uncomfortable to continue driving them.
    • razrielle, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2you just get the tire retreaded
    • Sagags, on 05/30/2008, -5/+1do you guys not know how to spell tire or what?
    • SatansSpatula, on 05/30/2008, -1/+3Wow, I bet their engineers never even thought of that! They should totally put you in charge of their R&D division, what with your brilliant insights.
    • cmapes2, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Why not just have the farthest underlying layer a bright color (like a neon orange) so that its very noticeable when the tire needs to be replaced?

      /problem
    • TVarmy, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1I can't. Please extrapolate, sir.
  • ICANSTANDIT, on 05/30/2008, -8/+1Let's face it, folks. A lot of resources are being wasted each day because people are stupid. Ignorant. Naive. Uninformed.
    Get the idea? Teaching puppies not to pee in the house by rubbing their noses in it is inhumane! Unkind. Rubbing (some) people's noses in it would be a step forward! Call it! I Can Stand IT!
    • Destroyer159753, on 05/30/2008, -0/+4How else are you possibly supposed to house train dogs then, politely ask them not to do it?
    • Twenty, on 05/30/2008, -0/+4What the ***** are you talking about.
  • j4real, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3Spike Strips are a thing of the past check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geqHQMkYobw from future weapons
    X-Net. I cant wait for these new tires to be released! i have had more flat tires than years i have been driving! And i have 150k miles under my belt
  • Densetsu, on 05/30/2008, -3/+3What's the price difference going to be?

    I mean, $3 for a tire pressure gauge and $10 for a 12V compressor goes a long way... especially since a compressor is useful for a lot of other things (sports, camping, etc). Barring that, gas stations have compressed air available for cheap/free.

    I don't check tire pressure as often as I should; only when I change my oil every three months, not every week like you're supposed to. Still, that $15 investment in those tools is going to last me a long time and likely more than cover the cost difference.
    • RSterkenburg, on 05/30/2008, -5/+1Every week? Wtf, who can afford that?
      • Velirno, on 05/30/2008, -3/+1Do you mean completely change out, or refill? Because there's a slight difference in cost.
      • gall0249, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3Morons - He meant that he doesn't check his tire pressure every week like you're supposed to. Not get his oil changed every week.
    • spaceman84, on 05/30/2008, -2/+4You missed the ***** point.

      Here's you:

      You. And here's the point.

      ***** inflating your tires. Saving you ten minutes a month wasn't the purpose of the design. The intent is to reduce rotation mass, thereby improving fuel efficiency and reducing braking distance. Not to mention GREATLY improved durability. You won't get a blowout with one of these. Not having to check tire pressure once a month is an insignificant side effect.
  • krnldmp, on 05/30/2008, -8/+1Pneumatic radials offer maximum performance and minimum weight, and MOST people aren't too STUPID to use them properly. That's why things are the way they are. Any more questions?
    • OriginalReplica, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2great, except that the Tweel can out perform pneumatic tires. "Michelin has also found that it can tune Tweel performances independently of each other, which is a significant change from conventional tires. This means that vertical stiffness (which primarily affects ride comfort) and lateral stiffness (which affects handling and cornering) can both be optimized, pushing the performance envelope in these applications and enabling new performances not possible for current inflated tires."
      • krnldmp, on 05/30/2008, -1/+1Sure thing, bud. Let me know when you see one on a race car. Let me know when you see one on Any car.
    • FairDinkumMate, on 05/30/2008, -0/+3You sound like someone saying "Horse & Buggy offer fantastic performance & don't need a gas station. Those motorised carriage things are no good!"
  • subterfuge, on 05/30/2008, -0/+8with underinflated servers, where is the mirror?
  • HappyScrappy, on 05/30/2008, -7/+1spam spam spam.
  • Twee, on 05/30/2008, -8/+4Am I the only one who thinks these "Tweels" are ***** ugly? It looks like somebody put bike tires on a car.
    • cloudboy, on 05/30/2008, -0/+6Talk about missing the point...
    • TVarmy, on 05/30/2008, -0/+4I have a feeling they'll look more like a tire in the final revision. Right now, it's a tech demo. If they looked just like a regular tire, it would not be as effective at visually advertising what's new about these tires.
  • DroppedGT, on 05/30/2008, -5/+10Yoo YOO yooo Im rollin on twenty FOW inch TWEELZ boii!
  • Infowarmachine, on 05/30/2008, -0/+4where do i get these?
  • redhitman, on 05/30/2008, -5/+0Give me something to cover up the ugly-ass things and I'll buy them.
  • meanswing, on 05/30/2008, -6/+0I dont think these tweels are safe. What if you hit a pot hole. What if you have an enormous weight carried by the car? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BgsmhrsmEI&feature ...
    • gquaglia, on 05/30/2008, -0/+4Because you know more then the people who designed them.
    • stk198323, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1''Other uses that are already beyond just testing can be found in heavy equipment and many military uses.''

      Yeah because your SUV is carrying so much that it weights more then heavy equipment...
  • SciFctn, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1I want whatever that crazy quad thing is!
  • MarsSentinel, on 05/30/2008, -7/+2uFck tweels. How about NOT hopping in your Escalade and driving 15 miles round trip to the grocery store for lemon juice last-minute before dinner.
    • passedoutghost, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2what. the. *****?
    • stk198323, on 05/30/2008, -1/+1It's there Escalade they bought it, they can do whatever they want with it, now stop being jalous!
  • everybodyruns, on 05/30/2008, -3/+4Damn; I wanted to read that article, but couldn't force myself to after the second time they said "driver's" instead of "drivers".
  • SatansSpatula, on 05/30/2008, -2/+1A solution to the drivers-are-ignorant-of-tire-pressure problem are tire pressure senders. They're now pretty ridiculously cheap and will probably be on all new vehicles in short order. Then a light comes on the dash to warn you the tires are low.
    Sure, the "my engine/oil light has been on for 10k miles, but she's still running good enough!" crowd will continue to thrive, but the common crowd will be aided.
  • footzilla, on 05/30/2008, -2/+2Buried for nauseating grammar.
    http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif

    But I'm totally googling for a tolerable article on tweels.
  • 89Prometheus, on 05/30/2008, -3/+2To be honest, I would not consider this article to be very credible. Look: the author is so ignorant that he/she constantly says "driver's" (meaning one driver owns something) instead of "drivers" (meaning there are multiple drivers). How can one trust an author who knows less about basic grammar than an ESL student?
    • stk198323, on 05/30/2008, -1/+1Michelin is a french company, so who say's it's not also a french person that wrote the article? Is it really that important that it's writtend drivers instead of driver's? Do you really not understand what they mean because of that? Do you want a cookie now to forget the pain you went through?
  • skellener, on 05/30/2008, -1/+1Been over $4 a gal. here in L.A. for a couple of months already. Probably be closer to $6 or $7 by 2010. Tweel maybe to little too late.
    • TVarmy, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Eh, if we switch to electricity or hydrogen, or whatever fuel of the future we come up with by then, the Tweel will still help that reach peak efficiency.
    • stk198323, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1The Tweel was not invented to save gas, it was invented to lower the problem you could get from regular tire. The gas saving thing is a bonus but was NOT the intention!
  • popfrogs, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Yeah, this high-tech system is called "bolts". I hear you can do many things with them. :)
  • p51d007, on 05/30/2008, -1/+2first person to get in an accident with one of these, the ambulance chasers will be lining up. Something about this just says class action lawsuit written all over it. After all, it "is" the American way.
    Even if it is the best thing since sliced bread, I really feel sorry for someone trying to invent something these days. If you can get it past the ambulance chasing lawyers, it ends up costing more than its worth.
    • 89Prometheus, on 05/30/2008, -1/+1You say that now, but wait until your the guy in the ambulance. Or better yet, it's your kid. And even if you don't get a hold of a lawyer while in the ambulance (assuming you are conscious), I bet you'll be flipping through the yellow pages before they get done adding up your bill.

      No, I am not a lawyer, but I do recognize the need for them. When a company tells a person its product is safe, it damned well better be sure. (Now, when an idiot is too stupid to use the product properly, that is just natural selection in action.)
  • Paulish, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Quick! Shoot out the tweels!... No. It just doesn't feel the same.
    • passedoutghost, on 05/30/2008, -0/+0You know, if we were to get these, we don't have to worry about road spikes when running from the cops!
  • HannibalLecter, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1As I recall, the reason why underinflated tires makes gas mileage so much worse is because the tires are not rigid, but instead deform at the point of contact on the ground. Because of this deformation, there's greater drag because there's a greater surface area contacting the road. Now, the Tweel's main feature is that it is flexible and can deform. Not only that, Michelin used it as a selling point because that ability to deform is what makes the ride much more comfortable. Isn't this just going to make fuel economy MUCH worse, rather than better?
    • FairDinkumMate, on 05/30/2008, -0/+2You'd have to assume that they're designed NOT to deform under normal driving conditions & only to do so in case of sudden changes in pressure caused by things such as pot holes, bumps, etc.

      I mean I'm no expert, but I'd guess Michelin are pretty good at it!
    • HannibalLecter, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1Fair enough, but most of the video presentation (see earlier in the thread) has the presenter talking about how much it'd essentially become a part of the suspension because it'd make the ride that much softer. That suggests to me that, yes, the wheels will actually deform.
  • mikeTOOtall, on 05/30/2008, -0/+1the big question: can you get them with spinners?
  • Farmer77, on 05/30/2008, -1/+1It looks like a bum's tire made from scrap. Maybe that's why it's no where to be seen.

    http://www.businessshrink.biz/psychologyofbusiness ...
  • aserer511, on 05/30/2008, -1/+2Dugg for a practical way to save gas that doesn't involve a life style choice
  • govsucks, on 05/30/2008, -1/+2Those are bad ass wheels. Thank you Multi-National Corporation!
  • Maozeng93, on 05/30/2008, -2/+0 aaaa. dug http://www.discovery5000.com/chanpin_view.asp?id=7 ...
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