What is Digg?235 Comments
- avengingturnip, on 07/30/2008, -3/+88Because they aren't being mass produced. Mass production brings unit costs down. Next question.
- mwrl, on 07/30/2008, -6/+47The R&D cost on electric cars is huge. If though a car, like the Tesla Motors design starts to be built in mass, you will see prices drop.
- fartbarker, on 07/29/2008, -15/+53the answer my friend is blowin in the wind... no but seriously, the answer to the question is... "Big Oil"
- angelstardust, on 07/30/2008, -11/+47Remember the film "Who Killed the Electric Car"? There's your answer...
- mikesbaker, on 07/30/2008, -2/+36Electric cars are really expensive because enough lithium ion batteries to drive 200 miles even in a very slip streamed car cost a lot of money. Ecogeek seems to have missed the point in this article IMO.
- zeitgueist, on 07/30/2008, -3/+25People only started caring about them when gas got expensive. That's why.
- pinchduck, on 07/30/2008, -6/+26Nope. "Historically Cheap Oil" makes sense, but Big Oil has nothing to do with Ford and GM producing gas guzzlers. You don't think that Ford wouldn't pull an awesome electric car or 500 MPG car out of their magic bag if they had it? Yes, Big Oil is powerful, but Big Car has no intention of going out of business, which is why, if the technology existed, it would be on the road right now. The companies are historically short sighted, I'll grant you that, and they should have been going after cheap, fuel efficient cars years ago, like Toyota and Honda, but even those venerable innovators cannot pull a miracle out of nothing at the snap of a finger. Engineers are working as hard as they can, around the globe, to come up with a viable replacement for gasoline as a power source, despite Big Oil.
- richmomz, on 07/30/2008, -6/+23B.S. Electric car technology predates the combustion engine. Hell golf carts have been running on battery power for decades, but they can't scale that up to a full-size commuter vehicle? As an engineering grad I can say with authority that claiming "R&D" expenses as a hurdle to mass adoption is utterly insane. The REAL reason is that car manufacturer/oil industries can't make near the profit margins from EVs that they can from combustion models.
For anyone interested in learning more I highly recommend watching "Who Killed the Electric Car?" - YZBot, on 07/30/2008, -0/+15Good batteries are expensive.
The battery pack in the Tesla car is something like $30,000 USD. It accounts for about 1/3 of the vehicle cost. - MaxMWood, on 07/30/2008, -1/+16And why do they all look stupidly "futuristic"?
- pathouston22, on 07/30/2008, -2/+15Capitalism.
If a company comes out tomorrow with a cheap electric car that looks decent and is cheaper or the same cost (ie NOT MORE EXPENSIVE) than a gasoline powered car, then it'll take over the market.
The market works. The geniuses (Ford, GM) just havn't figured that out yet. - DrDragun, on 07/30/2008, -0/+11It's pure economics of scale. Jesus. Do you people really think there are a bunch of guys in a board room sitting around the teak or mahogany table saying "Geez, if we sold electric cars at an economic price then we would make billions of dollars, but we want to ride out this internal combustion R&D investment instead" ?????
If there is money to make, someone will do it. Plain and simple. The problem is the customer. The customer wants COMPARABLE range on 1 charge to current dino-gas cars (meaning 300+ miles) and the customer wants to have reliable infrastructure to support his/her car (read: mechanics who know how to fix it and plentiful charge stations so s/he is never stuck on the roadside on empty).
When all of these things kick in, it will happen if people can make money doing it. Big Oil may spend a certain X amount of money to try to drag progress on electrics, but after a certain point the profit potential will exceed X as we pass the Hubbert Peak of oil supply. - RATM4EVER, on 07/30/2008, -2/+11Digg me down if you must, but I recall the Stonecutters holding back the electric car.
- n1eb, on 07/30/2008, -12/+21Because nobody wants them, supply and demand. It's not some automaker conspiracy. Also, lithium-ion batteries aren't cheap. There's a pretty narrow market for electric cars. You're not going to find me buying a car that only has a 250 mile range and needs to charge overnight before it can get going again and then pay 20k more for the privelage.
- timusca, on 07/30/2008, -0/+9Why what?
Why aren't they being mass produced? Or why does mass production bring cost down? - Justice101, on 07/30/2008, -0/+8I don't understand though why every electric car has every single optional thing standard. So if I wanna buy a hybrid civic (base civic is like 12,000 USD) I have to get a navigation system, and leather seats etc. so it ends up being 27,000 USD. That is just stupid.
- jbmcb, on 07/30/2008, -0/+8oilcan - European cars are quite a bit different than American cars. The safety standards are different, the emissions are different, gas formulations are different, and methods of testing MPG are different. Comparing European car and American car MPG ratings 1:1 isn't really valid.
- TFurgeson, on 07/30/2008, -0/+7They're coming, to Israel. There's a good chance they'll give them away free if you sign a 5-6 year service agreement, like a mobile phone.
http://www.greenbiz.com/column/2008/04/28/an-audac ... - d0zy, on 07/30/2008, -2/+9#1: sunk cost are not considered in rational decisions... a little econ 101
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost - timusca, on 07/30/2008, -1/+8Thank you for not mentioning the beginning of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Because as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't exist.
- oilcan, on 07/30/2008, -0/+7i can dig some of this argument but there is still a certain amount of discrepancy that is missing from this rationale, in particular why you would be hard pressed to find a vehicle in Europe anywhere that gets less than 40mpg, whereas in America by far most cars don't get that much. Big Car has financial ties to Big Oil, and they both share an interest in keeping things in oil for as long as possible. as soon as oil becomes too ridiculous, then they'll start breaking out the electric cars. remember, it doesn't have to go 500 miles on a charge to be useful for more than 95% of the population.
- natsfan, on 07/30/2008, -2/+8Do you have any idea what the profit margin on the average GM vehicle is? Hint, its negative, http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&si ... If they were capable of releasing an electric car and reaping huge profits because of it (look at the premium Hybrids sell for) don't you think they would? Or Kia, or Hyundai, or any other automaker trying to gain market share?
- VictoryGin, on 07/30/2008, -0/+6It's the most basic element economics: Supply and Demand
a rising demand, and a relatively low supply = High Costs - Rickler, on 07/30/2008, -0/+6Then why where all EV-1s, save for a few disabled ones given to museums and universities, crushed?
- trolleyfan, on 07/30/2008, -0/+6Rather a lot, actually. I mean, if you want the car to be *safe* on the streets, go more than the twenty miles range/twenty mph of a golf cart. Have little "extras" like radios and heaters and seatbelts...
- inactive, on 07/30/2008, -3/+9The problem is, we won't let capitalism work here in the US. The major corporations lobby the government to put rules in place to make the environment more favorable to them and we let it happen. The geniuses who pay the taxes haven't figured this out yet.
- zacharytelschow, on 07/30/2008, -2/+8"...you would be hard pressed to find a vehicle in Europe anywhere that gets less than 40mpg..."
You would also be hard pressed to find a vehicle into which I comfortably fit (I'm 6'6'' 205 lbs.). Europeans are driving around in lunch boxes that aren't as comfortable or safe as the vehicles Americans are accustomed to. My uncle in law told me he had a "big car" when we were over there, and the thing was about the same size as my wife's Ford Focus. - TheThirdLevel, on 07/30/2008, -0/+6Actually you don't. Base Civic starts at about 15k actually, and you canget a Civic Hybrid without the navigation stuff and extras for about 23k, and you get the tax rebate, which brings it to about 20-21k.
- trolleyfan, on 07/30/2008, -0/+5Physics "killed" the electric car. 'Nuff said.
I bet you believe GM killed the Pacific Electric too. - BThunderW, on 07/30/2008, -3/+8You sound reasonable, time to up my medication
- maci01, on 07/30/2008, -1/+6Oil is running out but more slowly than you might think.
There are about 1.27 tillion barrels of oil in reserve (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0872964.html). With the current reserve and current usage rates oil would last 40 years. Of course our usage rate is going up and less oil is being discovered. Nonetheless, estimates are we have enough oil for 25-45 more years or longer. - duckyinc, on 07/30/2008, -4/+9The oil companies are the ones investing into alternative energies because oil is running out. It's not all a huge conspiracy to keep you in your non energy car.
- slabdigger, on 07/30/2008, -6/+11Market it, and people will want to buy it, especially now. Puh-leez, the only people who want to keep this myth that mass production is impossible (which would bring the price down) are the people who sell oil, and oil filters. I want my EV1! or maybe an EV2? Or hey - a cheaper Tesla!
- skipdog172, on 07/30/2008, -0/+5what are you talking about? there is absolutely nothing that can stop anybody with a giant pile of money and blueprints to an electric cars that is cheap and has range from pouring money into factories and mass-producing. stop with the delusion that these big companies can simply "crush anybody who tries".
- perfectsilence, on 07/30/2008, -2/+7that makes no sense, why do electric cars have to be made from existing car companies? if the technology exist and there are huge demands why aren't there startup companies making these cars?
- perfectsilence, on 07/30/2008, -2/+7and the electricity you need to charge your car, where would it come from? burning coal? it's not necessarily more efficient or better for the environment than gasoline.
- e4digg, on 07/30/2008, -0/+5It is possible to own an electric car at a reasonable price.
I am in the middle of converting a 1994 Toyota Tercel to an all electric vehicle. I have estimated the cost to be around $7000 total. Although it will take some work to get the project completed, by the end of it I will have a reliable electric vehicle to travel to and from work, and to get all of our regular errands done - all at about 25% of the cost of a gasoline car.
You can view the details of the project at http://www.zerogasoline.com - zacharytelschow, on 07/30/2008, -1/+5If you saw it coming and they obviously didn't, I can then assume that you're a millionaire from selling their stock short. Wait, you didn't?
Until this past years, sales of SUVs and trucks had barely (if at all) slowed. Americans seemed completely indifferent to the price of gas their vehicles guzzled. Detroit has been caught with its pants down a bit at the moment, but the problems run much deeper than this current misstep. - videographer, on 07/30/2008, -0/+4Energy may not be created or destroyed, but how it is captured is quite variable. I have 2.4kw of solar panels on my roof that on a sunny day will more than charge my electric car...
...if the damn thing would GET here already. There! I paid for my transportation for the next 20 years in advance! That's called an INVESTMENT, kids. - greenm1981, on 07/30/2008, -1/+5There are different markets for different drivers. Not every driver out there requires a long range and rapid recharge time. However, you can't ignore the growing market for people who are choosing to diversify their transportation options. In some cities, with highly developed transit, EVs make perfect sense to those that only want a personal vehicle for special occasions. For example:
In Portland, I can easily take mass transit to work during the week. However, with an electric car I could drive to the beach and go camping. Or I could drive to the mountain and go snowboarding. Current EV technology would give me the range I need, without spewing exhaust out of my tailpipe. - MetalPig, on 07/30/2008, -1/+5Well, there are a few reasons. For one, the three wheeled versions are getting classified as motorcycles, which allows them to get around crash testing and safety equipment restrictions, which in turn allows them to be lighter and have greater range. Another, there is no need for a radiator, so the entire concept of a grill or distinctive front end is nothing but an unaerodynamic detriment. There are other reasons as well, but I agree that there is a lot of room for improvement in the appearance department.
- jerrycan, on 07/30/2008, -0/+4To me, the MILES XS500 will represent the first viable, normal looking full electric car made in the USA at a reasonable price. They cannot get this puppy to market fast enough as far as I'm concerned.
- strafefire, on 07/30/2008, -1/+5The answer to the question is BATTERIES ARE F@#$ING EXPENSIVE!!!
- doctechnical, on 07/30/2008, -0/+4Not only expensive, but with a limited life span. I've never had a laptop LiIon battery last three years. Imagine having to replace thousands of dollars worth of batteries every three years...
Without some exotic new energy storage technology the TCO of an electric car is gonna suck compared to gas cars. - purkel, on 07/30/2008, -0/+4US car companies are so far behind the 8 ball its insane... how could they not see this coming 5-10 years ago?
- jaydub, on 07/30/2008, -1/+5Apparently you never go on vacations (or do anything) where you drive somewhere that's further than say, 3 hours away. Until electrics can have some rapid recharge capability, even on the order of 30 minutes to fully recharge, or a range of say ~600 miles on a charge (that would give you a good full day's worth of highway driving), they're really only good for one thing: commuting to/from work. Any kind of driving that requires any kind of real duration is still going to require an ICE for its basically unlimited range.
Sure, there may be millions of people bitching for them, but how many would still be bitching for them if they really sat down and thought about the limitations having a purely electric car as their only means of transportation would have? - jbmcb, on 07/30/2008, -3/+7Holy cow not this again. The car companies could give a crap about "big oil" Big oil doesn't buy cars, consumers do. If consumers *really* want electric cars, car companies will happily sell them.
- zacharytelschow, on 07/30/2008, -0/+4FTA: "Car manufacturers have put many billions of dollars and almost a hundred years into the development of the internal combustion engine, and they don't want to (or can't even imagine how to) abandon that investment for new technology."
Yea, it could be some massive conspiracy and car manufacturers are unwilling to change! Or it could be that you can't match a century worth of R&D in a decade (ICE vs electric). You take your pick. - zacharytelschow, on 07/30/2008, -1/+5One of the more senseless posts I've read in a while.
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