What is Digg?Sponsored by Sony Pictures
Do you believe the 2012 Mayan Prophecy? view!
whowillsurvive2012.com - The Mayan Calendar predicts the end of time: 2012. See the trailer for 2012, opening November 13.
78 Comments
- HeDiggMe, on 07/04/2009, -5/+59So basically dealers are living off the bailout...proof that their business model is a fossil stuck in the early 20th century. Buyers' info & technology has changed so let the markets evolve. Other opportunities and jobs will be created in their place.
- DirtyVicar, on 07/05/2009, -4/+41"State laws forbid anyone but a licensed local dealer to sell new cars. "
I'm no libertarian, but for god's sake, ***** off, government! Who exactly does that benefit but well-financed local businessmen?
The government should stay the ***** out of business matters like this except to break up monopolies, which are no good for anybody except the banks and shareholders, and to protect the consumer. And they damn well better be proactive about it. - TheEngineer2008, on 07/04/2009, -2/+33No. The author wants the government to step aside and let U.S. business be competitive.
- virtualonliner, on 07/05/2009, -1/+24The only "help" my dealer provided when I bought my car was he kept asking me what my monthly budget was before telling me the price of the car. I had to tell him numerous time to forget about my monthly budget and just tell me "out the door" price and I will figure out my monthly budget after that. Man, that was one annoying task to do.
- Khast, on 07/05/2009, -0/+22Dealers provide important services like Dealer Prep?
Having worked in the detail shop for both a Chrysler and Chevy dealership...the "Dealer Prep" can be done in less than an hour....overall check over, and the detailing. Most of the mechanical check over is looking to make sure all equipment is present and accounted for...and a 5 mile drive. Detail pulls off the protective shipping plastic, washes the vehicle, vacuums, cleans glass, and puts the floor mats in (if present)
Oh, here's the heartbreaker...you love the new car scent? That is the chemicals we used to clean the car...NOT the smell of the vehicle when it rolled off the assembly line. (Well, either that, or because it has been sitting on the lot for 6-8 months and you bought it on the clearance sales.) - inactive, on 07/04/2009, -12/+34Which GM and Chrysler dealerships surviive, and which go under, should be determined by the marketplace, not the Obumma administration.
- unhg, on 07/05/2009, -0/+21Haggling is fun-- BUT you can never get it down to the true factory price since they still need to pay for overhead and that grinning let-me-ask-my-manager-first dealer. Let's not forget the $250+ "paperwork fees".
Cutting the middle man is actually a very intelligent business model. Companies such as Newegg.com make a killer profit (and pass it to the consumers) because they don't need to employ as much redundant workforce. - fragMasterFlash, on 07/05/2009, -1/+21So car dealers do not want to be a part of the free market economy? Well so long, it's been nice not knowing you.
- PanicAK, on 07/05/2009, -1/+15They should have learned from the music industry... Embrace the future, instead of trying to live in the past. Stop dicking your customers.
- dmbchris, on 07/05/2009, -0/+13Have you ever tried to haggle for a factory direct Honda? It doesn't happen- haggling happens only with overstock and used cars. If there were better inventory management we wouldn't have to haggle because the internet would tell us if we were getting the best price already.
- linuxeventually, on 07/05/2009, -2/+15The haggling is the problem, the salesmen try to screw you. Testdriving also has its issues - rather than having a dedicated set of cars to test drive it's any car on the lot - and when you go to buy a new car, having it scratched up already is not pleasing.
- gumper, on 07/05/2009, -1/+12This is absolutely insane - I have money, I want a car - but nobody will sell me one.
I've never seen a time like this. Went to Toyota to buy an FJ Cruiser. They have a used one - which I wasn't interested in - and instead spent hours trying to sell cars to me that I didn't want.
Went to Nissan the next day and they didn't have the model I wanted. They called around to other dealers but nobody would sell the car to them.
Dealers are dinosaurs. If a manufacturer makes a product I want to buy (like Toyota and Nissan), and I have the money to buy it, then sell it to me. Dealerships are costing the manufacturers (and the state - in lost sales taxes) money. - Barackalypse, on 07/05/2009, -0/+10Whatever results in lower prices is fine with me, regardless of what existing business models get messed up because of it.
- subscriber, on 07/05/2009, -0/+9@begbeg... State laws kept the dealers afloat.
Dealerships across the country have had enough political clout to get laws passed that not only forbid the car manufacturer from closing them, but they also made it illegal for the manufacturers to reduce production of a line of cars carried by those dealerships (or risk having to pay back millions of dollars in franchise fees to each dealership that carried those cars).
Thus, GM had to keep, for example, Pontiac and Oldsmobile lines open even if they were redundant only because the dealerships required them to. Imagine if McDonalds wanted to stop carrying the McLean when it wasn't selling, but they couldn't due to legal issues.
In bankruptcy, GM could close dealerships, and it was something they wanted to do for a long time. - Super6, on 07/05/2009, -0/+8My sister got her car on carsdirect and loved it, it wouldn't surprise me if this is the way the majority of cars are purchased in a decade or so, assuming a stupid law like this doesn't get passed.
- Stochio, on 07/05/2009, -2/+10You're missing the point. If people are idiots or the theory is wrong, then you have nothing to fear. The experiment will fail and your dealership utopia will continue.
"In your quest to put people out of work to save yourselves more money you have just crossed into the land of lunacy. Idiots."
You are confusing the ends and the means. Consumption is the ends. Production is the means. Putting people to work is not the objective. If it were, then you should follow the advice yourself. Do not buy a dishwasher. It puts you out of work. Do not buy a car. It is better to wear out your shoes walking to work. The shoe salesman can make more money. The dry cleaners will make more money cleaning your clothing. And you will be working harder in walking to work.
Far from lunacy, it is your policy of destroying capital, hatred of machinery, efficiency, and progress in the name of "putting people to work" that is the perennial scourge to cogent arguments the world over in political economy.
The lie detector is that one of us requires the force of government to enforce his plan -- whereas I make no demands of anyone. I'm not saying that the implementation of a particular plan would work. I'm just saying that there are a million and one specializations in the world. To legislate perfection is lunacy. - rebrad, on 07/05/2009, -5/+13The reason Toyota sells more cars than the American 3 is that they build cars that people want to buy, not the number of dealers. As far as buying a car on-line, I did that 10 years ago and never stepped foot in the dealers store. That said, you better know what you want before you buy on-line. Finding out that you aren't compatible with a car is best discovered before you pay for the car or you are just plain brainless. That's where a dealer provides a service besides maintenance. That and considering most people don't have an idea of what they want or how to pay for it makes dealers more essential than ever. If you don't need or want that kind of service you are free to live with what you asked for.
- 4answer2, on 07/05/2009, -0/+7"Doc fees" should have to be called 'additional profit fees'.
Pretty good scam, getting $400+ to spend 20 minutes filling out the paperwork you are required to complete to sell a vehicle. - dandd20006, on 07/05/2009, -1/+8That is a very good reason to get a bunch of the "Yes men" out of congress. Can't wait for the 2010 elections.
- grantmoore3d, on 07/05/2009, -0/+7I forgot about the overhead costs... I guess if the companies had "test drive" centers then I'd be fine with doing away with the dealers in favor of cutting those costs.
- charliecharlos, on 07/05/2009, -0/+6Please RTFA, it explicitly reads that States caused such a monopolistic situation. And if you actually want to go one step further, Obama is actually trying to stop that and move it forward. So, way to go on your thinking.
- PopcornDave, on 07/05/2009, -1/+7As long as he maintains popularity they don't dare cross him, no. But if he slips in popularity they'll turn on him like a pack of starving vultures.
- bluekangaroo, on 07/05/2009, -1/+6Dealers and their salesmen have been hustling people for years. Last time i tried to get a price "out the door," the dealer told me it was too hard to figure out. Too hard for him to back calculate the taxes and doc fees and what3ever other tack ons they want to include.
These sales people aren't exactly the best and brightest. There is no value added to having them around. ... - LaComedia, on 07/05/2009, -0/+5I believe we've all had this same argument years ago when businesses started opening up an online presence to sell their wares. It was deemed the end of the brick and mortar store for all retail chains. Today, a good balance exists where online stores and their physical counterparts are both productive, profitable, and efficient. I think allowing consumers more choices is the ultimate goal for any business, so putting up road blocks to internet sales is just a form of protectionism. Online sales of automobiles will not destroy the existence of dealerships anymore than RadioShack having an online store destroyed their physical stores. Some people will always want that human being they can touch and converse with, even with the added cost.
- Kate1240, on 07/05/2009, -7/+11Look, whatever obama says congress will do.
- FairDinkumMate, on 07/05/2009, -1/+5So basically you're saying you have no logical way to defend the position of the dealers so it's easier to attack the messenger?
Please let me know if you think I missed something in your comment that justified the position of these car dealers in the marketplace(You know, the point of the article...) - bjones2004, on 07/05/2009, -1/+5I agree that if the dealers were cut out we would save money on new cars. But not being able to test drive the models I'm interested in is a problem. I would never buy a new car without a test drive. I've driven over 3 hours just to test drive vehicles before. But not having to deal with car salesmen would be a dream come true. You pull into the lot and they are like the raptors on jurassic park. They run towards your car looking in through your windows like your fresh meat.
- inactive, on 07/05/2009, -10/+14Economic rights? What the ***** about my economic right to purchase a vehicle in a personalized and efficient manner? ***** you, Obama.
- TheRealM3D, on 07/05/2009, -2/+5Stop telling me that regulation is good for the economy. We keep propping up bad business models and the result is disaster. Thanks to auto workers unions, dealerships and our idiotic Congress, the US auto industry is literally being crushed by regulation. We're working so hard to "protect jobs" that we're legally preventing the auto industry from reforming itself to be modern and profitable. And now with the bailout, we're passing the cost of stupidity onto the American public. Guess what folks? Your tax dollars are going to pay for co-pay free dental care for auto workers and to make sure that car salesman is free to keep "checking with the manager" and leave you hanging while he figures out new ways to screw you. Yay Regulation!
- zacharywoods, on 07/05/2009, -0/+3What's next? Laws that prohibit online news and force people to drive to town and buy a paper to save that failing business model? Why are we enabling inefficient systems with taxpayer dollars?
- PopcornDave, on 07/05/2009, -0/+3But what's the fun of staying on point?
/s - whatit, on 07/05/2009, -1/+4Don't you guys say that every election?
- charliecharlos, on 07/05/2009, -3/+6Actually, it's not the Obama administration, but the new company executive who hope to turn a company bogged down by dealerships and automotive lines no longer profitable into a profitable company to save millions of jobs and later sell at a profit.
But good try... - dmbchris, on 07/05/2009, -6/+9The ones he has cut have not made a profit in years- if the marketplace decided for real, there'd be even fewer than there are now. This article bemoans the dealers trying to thwart the market (i.e. bankruptcy court) by whining to congress.
- EvilPoliticians, on 07/05/2009, -1/+4The irony is the ones that can survive in the marketplace can afford the lobbyists to keep the model intact.
- lens42, on 07/05/2009, -0/+3I bought my last two new cars IN SPITE of the dealer not because of them. I had a Dodge Caravan that was a decent vehicle, but the purchase process was miserable (I wasn't even haggling) and the only time the car had problems was AFTER I got it back from regular service. Every service required two trips - the 2nd was needed to fix screw-ups from the first. I have a buddy who worked for Ford who told me they couldn't get rid of even the worst dealers because of local laws and weird contracts. The is no practical reason why you couldn't buy a car directly from the maker. Apple provides a good parallel (Please don't flame me for complimenting them. You can see from my posts that I'm not a fan boy). They realized that retail stores like Fry's and Comp USA actually HURT them because demo products were often damaged and purchase advice was horrible. See the parallel here (at least about the advice)? Imagine going to a Ford or Toyota show room that was really owned by the company, and talking to people who actually know about the cars, but are not pressuring you to buy today. I REALLY like the idea.
- Unreal030, on 07/05/2009, -0/+3@Rantus
Why do I have a feeling your somewhat invested in this? Dealership owner? Care salesman? Read a basic book of economics, or, what would be quicker, is to just listen to the people that replied to you. - subscriber, on 07/05/2009, -0/+3If there is a demand for the services the dealer provides, then that dealership will exist. The problem here is that state laws protect dealers -- they exist whether or not there is an economic demand for them.
- JDoorjam, on 07/05/2009, -2/+4Someone in the (rather massive) Washington Post organization ***** up. They tried to walk it back, and they're horribly embarrassed. It had prettymuch nothing to do with the integrity of the newsroom staff, and has nothing to do with this article. Try to stay on point.
- NoNameWorks, on 07/05/2009, -0/+2LOL I like the first words in this article:
"This article or section has multiple issues. " - grantmoore3d, on 07/05/2009, -5/+7The two major benefits I see with dealerships (from a customer point of view) are having the ability to test drive something to be sure you like it and to have the ability to haggle for a better deal. I would never want to buy a car without those two options available to me.
- reddikilowatt, on 07/05/2009, -0/+2From the article: "the dealer network costs the manufacturers nothing."
Ever hear the phase "Factory to dealer incentives" in a car ad? That's extortion money paid out by the manufacturer to the dealer to get them to sell your car and not the competitor's car in the other building. And in recent years (since the 1990s actually), dealers and advertising agencies have been putting together dealer networks to grab even more money in the form of co-op advertising dollars.
And then there's the rows of cars sitting on dealer lots. They order a ton of cars at a time, and there they sit for months in some cases. Meanwhile the factories and their suppliers are geared up for just-in-time manufacturing. The only reason we don't see the Dell model in automobile manufacturing is because dealers won't let you off the lot without a new car, that day, right now. A car is a big outlay of cash and I should be able to get whatever options I want, and skip the ones I don't. If I have to wait a week or so for delivery, so be it. - Dereliction, on 07/05/2009, -0/+2You're delusional, buddy. The marketplace is *always* more informed as to what it wants (and what better serves its needs) than any politician or lobbyist. Always.
- WilliamDavis, on 07/05/2009, -3/+5Where's *my* ***** bailout?? I'm getting really sick of this abuse.
- carlosos, on 07/05/2009, -0/+2I always wondered why there are so many dealerships in the USA compared to other countries. I never thought that the reason is a law that limits consumer choice.
I'm also guessing that this is the reason why used cars are still so expensive because most people trade in their car to a dealership when buying a new one. Without dealership there would be no middlemen to sell the used car for a profit again. - JigoroKano, on 07/06/2009, -0/+2When the dealers lobby their state government to pass laws in their favor, that isn't central planning.
- Dereliction, on 07/05/2009, -1/+3To be frank, "test drives" via dealerships are *****. You get a fractional amount of time to tip around with some jackass salesman, a "test" that provides little to no real information about the vehicle.
A much better option--one I've used dozen's of times myself--is to rent the vehicle you're interested in for 3+ days and then use it just like you would if you owned it. While this will cost you a bit of cash it is good cursory test before you invest thousands in a vehicle.
Most cars and trucks a person might want to purchase can be rented in this way, even high end vehicles (from my own example I've rented a Porsche 996 for a week before I purchased one and did the same for a Lotus Esprit some time later ... not cheap but compared to how much you spend it amounts to only a few percent of the vehicle price).
Beyond that, if we were able to purchase direct from a manufacturer the total cost would (almost certainly) be lower than going through a dealership of one sort or another. Chances are we'd see dealerships transform into a different entity entirely, if they were eliminated--they would likely become mostly service/support shops and possibly ... rental agencies for the manufacturers. Imagine that.
All around it would be better for the consumer and, even if it weren't, wouldn't we all be better off if the market could decide for itself what it preferred? - scamper22, on 07/05/2009, -1/+3hmmm, do I dare ask what the hell the government is doing meddling in the details of the automobile business?
I had no idea dealers were mandated by law to be the only ones capable of selling a car. Just goes to show you how centrally planned the US economy is.
3 cheers for centrally planned economies where lobbying trumps good decisions.
No worries though, in this time of great economic centralization, we will have a great intelligent leader to to make all the right decisions... /s - unhg, on 07/05/2009, -0/+1http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
You have a large SUPPLY of cars sitting there &
I DEMAND speedy purchase of car(s).
Learn to add A + B, auto companies? - Dereliction, on 07/06/2009, -0/+1@ Rantus
The market crashed (and the rest of the economy with it), not because of the marketplace but because of greedy bankers and politicians, because of manipulation and fraud, and mostly because of the Federal Reserve. Regulation, fraud, and exceptionally ignorant manipulation of the money supply created the mess that the economy is in, nothing less. And no, none of that is the market--the economic backlash was the reaction of the market to the manipulation. -
Show 51 - 81 of 81 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is