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85 Comments
- Hockey13, on 04/11/2009, -0/+40There's something about that highway to the danger zone that is inherently dangerous.
- shwaa, on 04/11/2009, -1/+21It's a sad trend, but not totally unexpected. Motorcycles are cheap (relative to sports cars), insanely fun, and quite cool.
Combined with the fact that military men are not exactly risk-averse, and there you have it.
It's good that the military is letting them test their skills on the track before they go out and do something stupid in traffic though. The more a rider knows his own limits the more he is humbled. It's the kids on crotch rockets who think they're invincible that are most at risk of getting hurt or killed. - ixicoolaixi, on 04/12/2009, -0/+15As someone who has done security at a Military base I can't say I didn't see this coming. The installation commander of my base began coming down with a lot of strict rules after a spike in motorcycle related crashes. I use to check the I.D. cards of a lot of military guys on bikes coming through the gate only to hear later they had crashed and died either off post or on post.
The only thing we could do as Security Personnel was to reiterate the safety rules on post. Long sleeve shirt, helmet, reflectors, boots above the ankle etc etc. But we were always met with disgust (as if we made the rules). But it was to their benefit - not only to safety but because if you as a soldier were involved in a motorcycle incident and you were hurt, the military would withdraw the health benefits and leave you hanging if you did not adhere to on post motorcycle protocol.
Even after explaining such things, a lot of military riders would snicker. It's sad. - Shipyaad, on 04/12/2009, -0/+10My friends in the service who rode bikes in didn't exactly like wearing all that gear, but they always did it - and if it weren't for that equipment, one of them would probably be dead right about now. Amazingly, all the bitching stopped after he had a serious crash and walked away from it.
- tgc1, on 04/12/2009, -1/+9Squids are Squids. Doesn't matter what kind of suit you're wearing.
- SirRoxen, on 04/12/2009, -3/+10I don't want a pickle,
Just wanna ride on my motorsickle,
and I.... don't wanna die,
I just wanna ride on my motorcy.....
cle. - ISMSysadmin, on 04/12/2009, -0/+6One thing the article doesn't mention is that the vast majority, and the statistics are **really** showing this, is that most of the fatalities are on sport bikes. I'm a navy instructor here in SoCal and last year we had one motorcycle fatality who was on a cruiser and he was rear-ended by a drunk driver. Most of my classes (18-24 students average) have a few riders in them and the majority are <25 years old, male, riding a huge sportbike and have no prior experience. They go to a dealership (I won't name a couple here in San Diego that are notorious for this) with a check, get talked into buying a 900+cc bike that's way too big for them and off they go. Not the dealerships fault, they are just there to make a profit and my sailors didn't bother to educate themselves first, they just have cash and want to ride. Every time I see them I hope that they don't wreck and before every weekend I cover safety thoroughly. Haven't lost a student yet and I pray I never do. I restore old cruisers as a hobby and encourage younger sailors to maybe buy a smaller used bike before they go out and buy some behemoth rice rocket. I applaud the navy for its safety courses, have been through one myself, but until we educate our sailors about what exactly they are tossing a leg over and how ill-suited they may be for it we'll keep losing good men and women.
- gbudavid, on 04/12/2009, -2/+8This has been an annual Story Since at least 1964. And I will wager Earlier.
- inactive, on 04/12/2009, -1/+7I was just thinking these guys watched too much Top Gun.
- Nerys, on 04/12/2009, -1/+6I don't care about the mpg per pound. I only care about absolute mpg IE how much money do I have to shove into the gas tank.
For more than 1 person ok my minivan is king. 7 people at 28mpg. Can't touch that.
but for the daily run around. Yeah that's why I got a bike :-) Plus its fun! - j0hnc0ry, on 04/12/2009, -2/+7How quaint. I call ER nurses in LA "cum dumpsters."
- jsuther, on 04/12/2009, -0/+5Parents, let your kids have small cc dirt bike if you can afford to. The experience they get from handling a small lightweight dirt bike will make them less likely to wreck that 600cc sport bike they pick up when they are 18.
/been riding sport bikes for 10 years. Wished I had a dirt bike when I was a kid - inactive, on 04/12/2009, -1/+6Damn, gas by my house is $1.65 per gallon.
- WolfHook, on 04/12/2009, -0/+5What is the licensing procedure for riding a bike in America anyway?
In England we have to jump through hoops to ride one and the law is due to change at the end of this month to get in line with the EU. Not something I agree with.
There is a days worth of CBT (compulsory Basic Training), where you have to ride around cones and that sort of thing, once passed you can ride a 125cc bike for two years before stepping up for a DAS (Direct Access).
I spent a year and a half riding a Honda CBR 125cc bike before I went for the full license. It was more than enough experience for me. I now ride a Suzuki GSXR with no issues at all.
Can you just jump on a Busa in America and take a quick test or what? - ruarctb, on 04/12/2009, -0/+4Least she's hopefully a safe motorcyclist.
- cheapotheclown, on 04/12/2009, -1/+5it's an F4i, not a 929.
- d686, on 04/12/2009, -0/+4There are no engine size or power restrictions in North America as in England. My first bike back in 2000 was an R6 after a 15 minute written test. There are some restrictions (no riding at night, no motorways, etc) that get lifted as you take safety courses, but in essence any punk kid can be ripping around town on a Busa or any liter bike within weeks of deciding to get one and with minimal testing.
The other problem is there is no culture of 2 strokes as in Europe so kids don't get used to smaller machines and get experience before moving on to big bikes. It's actually considered quite restrained for a kid to stick to a 600 as a first bike.
The only real limiting factor is insurance - it can reach $10k a year for someone in their early 20s on a liter bike. - inactive, on 04/12/2009, -3/+7Stupid, stupid, stupid.
- eod_punk, on 04/12/2009, -0/+4I ride my bike on an army post and I put up with the stupid rules. If there were serious about wanting you to be safe the rules would be different. This is just more of the same crap the military always does with safety, stupid rules and sayings that only protect the person in charge usually. Take the requirement for wearing a long sleeve shirt, what the hell is a cotton shirt going to do for you? its going to protect you for about the first half second when you go sliding down the road. Then you have to wear a reflective vest over top of everything to include a backpack if your wearing one too. Let me get this straight because some retard in a car can't pay attention when they are driving I have to wear a bright orange vest? I have had more cars/vans/garbage trucks pull out in front of me when riding when I have had all that stuff on then when I haven't. And if you look at the actual numbers, from the army safety center, most of the accidents by far are on crotch rockets, not cruisers. Surprisingly not the 18 year olds too but late 20's.
I'm tired of all the head injuries I hear about from car accidents I'm going to start pushing that everyone riding in a car should wear a helmet just incase. Oh yeah and a safety reflective stripe around every car too. I'm just looking out for you! - joshuasmaximus, on 04/12/2009, -0/+4Law of Unintended Consequences: The Military is responding by providing motorcycle safety courses. My sister took one (just for something to do) while she was stationed in Korea and she decided she wanted a Harley Davidson. She bought one at a discount while still in Korea and they delivered it to her next base in NY. So, thanks to these free courses she went from being a car driver to a motorcycle rider (with some training). Probably not the outcome the Army was hoping for.
- fangor, on 04/12/2009, -0/+4I lol'd
- etx313, on 04/12/2009, -0/+4Just about yeah. I have been riding for years, but I just decided to get my cycle endorsement. Here in Michigan you have to go in to take a written knowledge test, then you receive a permit where you can drive on the roads only with another rider that has their endorsement. Then, most people go to a community college and take the three day training and road test. If they successfully complete that they will receive their endorsement.
I skipped the training, all you need is the certificate that says you completed the 4 road tests. Take that in, pay a few bucks and get your endorsement to ride on the roads. - CivicTV, on 08/14/2009, -1/+4God damn you Tom Cruise!
- FreeTalkLIve, on 04/12/2009, -2/+5This was all part of Osama Bin Laden's master plan.
- jawagas, on 04/12/2009, -0/+3Haha, probably datin' back to the early Harely Knuckleheads.
- Chompy, on 04/12/2009, -1/+4The key is to avoid keeping your metal under tension, and to ignore the metal when it begs you to touch and go.
- Dragular, on 04/12/2009, -0/+3edit.
- BoneheadFarker, on 04/12/2009, -0/+3Not sure about the US, and it's probably different everywhere. But in Ontario when you take the course, you need to get your beginners M1 license before you sign up. Then you get a weekend of instruction and riding 125cc dirtbikes around the obstacle course, which is actually pretty fun and teaches a lot. But even the instructors thought it was too much that after 2 days of riding, you're legally allowed to ride at night in a rainstorm on the highway with a passenger. So they were telling us horror stories of people who decided to do similarly stupid things right after taking the course, in the hopes that we wouldn't do the same. Personally, I ignored the small bike recommendation, even after the instructor told me that he was scared for me. I still went for the Maxim 750...
- oldhick, on 04/12/2009, -1/+4Uhh... Most bikes will out perform cars when it comes to mpg. Even V-rod's get about 35 mpg around town and 48 highway. Hayabusas get around 40 mpg in the city and even better on the highway.
You start talking about the vast majority of bikes on the road which are much smaller and you'll see mpg in the high 50's to low 60's.
So I'm not sure what your point is. Nearly all bikes get far better mileage than a car. - Sporky023, on 04/12/2009, -0/+3What about depression and alcoholism? Those don't kill people quite as fast as a motorcycle accident, but they can certainly ruin lives.
- Mizery, on 04/12/2009, -0/+3True, but it's still transporting me from point A to point B at double or triple the mileage of a car or truck, and that's all I care about. And, it out-accelerates any car on the road, so you get super-fun-factor plus good mileage. Win-win ...until I get killed on it.
- mjlandy, on 04/12/2009, -1/+4We need graded licensing in the states. Lee Parks does a great course on this topic, combined with practice sessions. It is all about risk and skill and knowing how to gauge your degree of control of the situation. This is NOT a skill that young folks have, it is learned. We need riding courses that teach people to ride. What we have are traffic law courses.
I am on my third sport bike since taking up riding and taking it seriously (upgraded engine size as I got more experience). For those who need an outlet which is somewhat healthy, but is risky - its a good one, compared to drinking and other risky behavior. For those who do take this seriously and gear up always, and take care of their machines and their minds its very rewarding. For those who think it wont happen to them..... it does - DataMonkey, on 04/12/2009, -0/+3You can ride your motorcycle all the way to Alice's Restaurant.
- Ruger11mcrdpi, on 04/12/2009, -0/+3The current rules are getting a little insane. I'm an active duty Marine, and I wanted to get my motorcycle liscense recently... I just decided to wait and do it while on leave at home.
- oldhick, on 04/12/2009, -0/+3It's a bit different here. In most states there are two ways to get a license. You start by passing a written/computer test to get a learners permit. This allows you to ride with a licensed biker during day hours. After having your learners for 3-6 months, you can then apply for your actual class M license. Again, in most states that I'm aware of, this happens one of two ways. You head back to DMV and pass a riding skills exam that includes some tight cone work, figure eights, starting and stopping quickly, etc... With a large bike, this is an extremely difficult exam. With a small bike, it's easy! The other method is to pay for a class similar to what you described. They're usually two days and on successful completion, you get your license.
Now once you have a license, you can jump on what ever kind of bike you want and go crazy. - vtnerd, on 04/13/2009, -0/+2Agreed. There are tons of low-CC bikes available in Europe and Asia, but all we get are antiquated Ninja 250s here in the US.
I ended up with a Honda Nighthawk 250 as my starter bike, but it wasn't ideal. I still tell everyone I know to start small and learn, but few listen. I've been down on it once and it took a few hundred to replace the bent pegs and handlebars as opposed to the few thousand I would have spent on new plastics and paint for a sport bike.
Oh, target fixation was what took me down. Stupid mistake, but every new rider makes stupid mistakes. I had full gear on so I was fine though. - jeenyus2004, on 04/12/2009, -0/+2"what......the..hell?"
"dude I have no idea what your sayi-" - dank123, on 04/13/2009, -0/+2ummm... shouldn't the military be focusing on veteran suicide since it is the actual number one cause of off-battlefield casualties? not to mention the suicides rates are exponentially higher for those veterans who happened to have served in Iraq? While were at it... why not put that money into the VA hospitals.....
- dhughes, on 04/12/2009, -2/+4 The motor displacement on motorcycles is increasing each year, it's not uncommon to see a six cylinder bikes these days and engine sizes over one liter are getting common. Just being a motorcycle doesn't mean it will get good gas mileage it's energy use, fuel is energy, if you drive a big bike and tear around all over the place you'll use a lot of fuel i.e. energy.
It's the same thing with the Prius you see people with them driving fast and taking off from stop lights as fast as they can, the car isn't magic, part of the increased mpg is how you drive. - Nerys, on 04/12/2009, -0/+2Requirements in the US are very low. You take a computer test to get the permit you take a road test to get the license. That's it. Once you have the permit or license you can ride any motorcycle you want.
Most states also have Motorcycle Safety programs some free some cost. I live in PA and its free. If you succeed in the MSF program (they supply everything bikes gas helmets instructors) you get your License free (the Motorcycle endorsement) So its a very nice incentive. I won't ride my bike until I take the MSF course. - jasdf, on 04/12/2009, -2/+4Motorcycles get pretty horrible gas mileage when you consider how small they are.
- Hazardc, on 04/12/2009, -0/+2ummm.. an f4i is a 600cc bike dude. Why are you getting dug up?
- evilsin, on 04/12/2009, -0/+2yes you can just jump on a busa in america.
however, good luck if you are dumb enough to jump on a busa with no expereince - Photokon, on 04/12/2009, -0/+2The military is retarded. I used to be in the Marines and you wouldn't believe the hoops I had to jump through to ride my own motorcycle. I already had a motorcycle license (no MSF card) and when I transferred to my new base after being overseas I wasn't even allowed to ride MY OWN motorcycle that I had before I got there. My boss wouldn't even let me take the course so I could ride my motorcycle, I eventually just asked someone else and finally got to take it.
So many Marines probably don't even try to do it the right way because their leadership is so damn rude. If you had a choice between just keeping your motorcycle off-base and never dealing with military rules or going through a million hoops with ***** leadership, I know what most people would do.
I always wore my gear and it saved me one time. But, for the military to act like it cares is complete crap. I guarantee that 95% of units won't let their people go to this track stuff. They'll all get the same BS line from their leadership, but hey, the Navy has this program so that means every sport biker gets to go right???!!! BS. Maybe other units are different but my unit never cared and actively tried to make it so you couldn't even use your own money how you wanted. This was 2005 btw, before all this even became a big deal. Camp Pendleton too. - Caleb83, on 04/12/2009, -0/+2I see a lot of guys on bikes in Oak Grove. Usually they are quite well covered, but sometimes you'll see the guy without sleeves and his backpack. Also, is the neon green vest required for driving on post? I'm sure it's not a civvie law, just curious about those vests.
- jeenyus2004, on 04/12/2009, -0/+2I agree with most of eod_punk's statement, but I think that what most people don't realize are those are the minimum safety requirements. Most guys I know that ride wear the (kevlar?) lined jackets which offer a bit more protection then a long sleeve shirt. I understand the urge to ride without gear, it's imposing to the rider. Helmets create blind spots, the more gear you wear makes it harder to maneuver on the bike itself. Unfortunately it is a situation of the commander covering his ass, and yours. What it all boils down to is PR, news agencies or families soldiers or civilians that are killed on or off post in motorcycle accidents, or seriously injured, aren't going to take "well we leave it up to the rider" as an excuse. You can probably "blame" countless families of soldiers who have been in motorcycle accidents for the "strict" rules on safety equipment. It could be worse, they could just not allow soldiers to have motorcycles at all.
- vendeep, on 04/12/2009, -1/+3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTFWfJZqzHo
- molamann, on 04/12/2009, -0/+2I wish more manufactuers are willing to make bikes that are smaller than 600cc yet look badass. Kawi did a good job with the 250's and if more manufacturers are willing to make similar models, people wouldn't be shamed to ride smaller bikes.
- vtnerd, on 04/13/2009, -0/+2No, we don't need the government being anymore restrictive than it already is. Government doesn't exist to protect you from your own stupidity and that is precisely what graded licensing does.
Smart people research and learn about the hobby they're interested in. I read a sport bike forum for more than year before I took the MSF class. I knew that I needed to wear full gear every time I rode and I knew to get a small bike and I gleaned tons of information from that site. I bought full gear and I bought a 250cc bike with minimal plastics. When I had my first crash, it was a cheap fix and my gear did its job. I fixed the bike and bought a new helmet and went on learning.
The opportunity exists to not be an idiot, but this needs to be a choice. We don't need another, inefficient government agency or law controlling our lives anymore than we need a bullet to the head.
There's room for improvement though. A bunch of low-speed maneuvering doesn't properly prepare you for anything except low-speed maneuvering. I'm not sure what would fix that on a national scale, but I'll kindly ask the government to stay away. - inactive, on 04/12/2009, -0/+2at MCB Quantico, a Marine in my unit was on medical hold for 3 years after a motorcycle accident. His feet was uneven, and was pulled with a screw to makeit even...speak of pain..lol.
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