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88 Comments
- swordedge, on 01/02/2009, -1/+20Unless you get a drastic improvement in solar tech, I don't see how you can have a totally solar powered car that can go more then a few miles.
- chronopublish, on 01/02/2009, -2/+15Tesla considered adding solar cells to its fully-electric Roadster, but abandoned the idea when they discovered that driving on a sunny day would only yield an additional half mile or so of range.
Unless there's some sort of amazing new solar tech that only Toyota is aware of, I don't see how they can possibly deliver on this in any meaningful way.
The most practical thing to do seems to be to just build an electric car. Then the driver could (at their option) install solar panels at their home to facilitate recharging the vehicle. - MrRedneck, on 01/02/2009, -0/+12Possibly up his add?
- Virrow, on 01/01/2009, -0/+11ADD* :o
- Virrow, on 01/01/2009, -1/+12First reported loses in about 70 years, i guess you can call it struggling if Toyota is losing money. I believe they should ass solar power to their current hybrid cars to make them even more efficient.
- thayanmarsh, on 01/01/2009, -2/+13Toyota is "struggling?"
- inactive, on 01/01/2009, -2/+12Make it cheap enough and clean enough and I will buy it. I would buy a Prius but here they are way too expensive
- inactive, on 01/02/2009, -0/+8you probably wanted a girlfriend as well. Apparently writing an essay on your idealogical eutopia has left you little time for the second want........
- virtualonliner, on 01/02/2009, -2/+9I hope they have made some breakthrough in solar cells. Otherwise the car will have a huge roof.
- nick111, on 01/02/2009, -1/+8There's a difference between driving on a sunny day, and driving 1km to work, parking in a sunny carpark for 8 hours, then driving 1km home again.
It's not just the driving bit that does the collecting, though for some people it would make more sense to put the cells on the garage roof. - sockpuppets, on 01/02/2009, -1/+8Where's your head?
- inactive, on 01/02/2009, -2/+8Why is everyone so fascinated with green cars these days? I like black or red better.
- greenfalcon69, on 01/02/2009, -1/+5It would be pretty obvious to blind freddy that these sorts of cars should have been designed and made in Australia long before now!
You drive to work park in the sun and then drive it home. Australia being as sunny as it is this would be the cleanest and cheapest way to move around the city. - nick111, on 01/02/2009, -0/+4The article was a little confused on this point I think.
Still, tis summer here in NZ, and a ferocious amount of energy falls on my car every day, and It's not being used at all... for the amount of driving I do, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it could run on solar alone.
I've got this silver protector that goes over the windscreen so if I park in the sun for more than about 1/2 an hour, I can still touch the steering wheel. A couple of days ago, it got so hot that the dashboard was way too hot to touch... from the heat that managed to get THROUGH the silver reflecter.
Can't see it working in Norway this time of year mind, but still... that's a hell of a lot of energy going to waste. - linagee, on 01/02/2009, -1/+4Not if the manufacturing process kills ten babies for every solar panel.
- inactive, on 01/02/2009, -3/+6I wonder if they can make it uglier and suckier than a Prius? That would take some doing!
- ReemonIJ, on 01/02/2009, -2/+5Solar is the way to go.
- inactive, on 01/02/2009, -0/+3Yeah the problem is, they are doing something about it and you are not.
- bodhibay, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2what idea?
- moduc, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2It will sure be much different if it's to be solar car. The shape will be different. Did you look at all the solar cars lately? They're mostly flat. Search for solar race cars developed by universities. People will hate them, but I would definitely drive them if I have one. People will learn to like it.
- drifter, on 01/02/2009, -3/+5Why does it seem that whatever the Japanese automakers due gets immediately hyped up? If an American auto company was doing this it would get ridiculed and pointed out that this is very unlikely and will most likely be something that won't work in developed countries like the United States.
- TVarmy, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2I don't think that's fair to say. Venture capital is all over green technology, especially solar power and wind power. Of course, selling a tangible product or service is what these companies really need, so this is great step forward.
However, I think money should really go into other areas that could help the environment that are getting overlooked. For example, there's one engineer who found a way to make more efficient DC motors by using cone shaped magnets, which uses less material and allows the motors to be smaller. However, he's having trouble manufacturing it, because no one will fund him, despite having working prototypes. Considering many small appliances and computer components use DC motors, this is an important thing. - nick111, on 01/02/2009, -2/+4Probably, if they're trying to cover R&D, but in the long run efficiency makes for far cheaper production costs.
Just by decoupling the engine from the wheels means you can chop out a hell of a lot of mechanics. Electricity means fewer moving parts. - nick111, on 01/02/2009, -2/+4Yes, but that's because you're a dingbat.
- nick111, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2Solar with gen/bio-tech backup.
- rolf, on 01/02/2009, -2/+4*****. Solar is nice, but at current efficiencys - nope. Even at 100% efficiency, nope. Partially, like the Aptera - maybe. But fully? The math wouldn't add up.
But reading the article, it's apparent that will be an electric car that can be plugged in or will have solar cells to complement it. Misleading at best. - moduc, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2It's possible with a different shape car. But to many people, different shape can be acceptable.
http://www.americansolarchallenge.org/
http://www.engin.umich.edu/org/solarcar/index.html - notrdame919, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2Didn't Digg have an article about a major advance in the ability to store a much greater percentage of the solar energy collected from the panels about a month or so back?
- notrdame919, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2if you think about it, though, (in an extreme example) the solar panel used could be tiny and account for just 0.5% of the overall power for the vehicle and the rest could still come from gasoline, which wouldn't be very "green."
...and the proportion of babies killed to each solar panel installed divided by the rate of energy provided from each solar panel makes it clear that babies are, in fact, the new preferred renewable energy source. - dmbchris, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2It is very possible to build a solar powered car... All you need is a <600lb car, a body shape that has 1/4 the drag of a prius, 100psi tires, and a motor that is 96% efficient. Did I mention a 16-person support team and $2,000,000?
http://www.umsolar.com
To those who say solar power needs to get better... this is BS because solar cells can only collect as much energy as the sun puts out. At that rate, with standard tires and a mass-production body/frame, it's only going to net you a few miles a day, even if you have 100% efficient cells. The only viable solar powered car is simply an electric that plugs into an array on your house. This "rumor" is simply PR. The only practical use of solar power on a car would be to power accessories or to top off the battery on a combustion car, to make sure it doesn't go dead. I believe this is what the solar version of the Fisker car does. - JHW539, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2You are correct about the amount of energy available, however your estimate of 340 Wh per mile (800 Wh = 2.5 miles) is probably pessimistic. A decade ago the EV-1 was pegged by the DOE as achieving 115 Wh/mile - that's a tested number (@ 45 mph) for a US street legal, two seater car on old tire tech. I would expect Toyota to be able to achieve 100 Wh/mile if they really pushed the tech (fancy solid tires and the motor/electric drive efficiencies they have worked up doing the Prius). Even better if they position it in the low-speed-only neighborhood vehicle market (limited to 35 mph in WA state for example). So, that's a theoretical maximum of 8 miles per hour in the sun. Assume 8 hours a day in the sun, and that's an excellent 64 mile range.
Add back in a bit of reality (partial sun, cell inefficiency, charger loss, etc) and you still have a 50 mile range, which is more than enough for this to be an awesome commuter car (most US households have 2 vehicles...). - DickyT83, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2They say geniuses pick green.
- Number23, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2Even if you could produce a solar cells that operated at 100% efficiency, does enough energy fall upon the horizontal surfaces of your average sized passenger sedan to power it?
- moduc, on 01/02/2009, -0/+2It would work if you charge it other day with electric and solar power. Just to go to Walmart? Oh, maybe you live in a remote area.
http://www.engin.umich.edu/org/solarcar/index.html - TVarmy, on 01/02/2009, -0/+1That newspaper reports the most random things, and seems to be mostly rumor and speculation. However, there's often a grain of truth. For example, they said Nintendo was going to make a digital camera, but it turned out it was the DS-i. They probably received reports Nintendo was buying small digital camera parts (lens, CCD, etc) and speculated from there.
In this case, I imagine they're just looking into adding solar as an option for their hybrids to act as a source in addition to plugging in (slated for 2012 IIRC) and gasoline. Plus, it's an obvious solution for fully electric cars, too. Solar technology just isn't there today, either by price or efficiency per square inch, but currently, covering the roof of a Prius in solar panels will improve mileage by 10% on a sunny day, so there is a lot of promise, and the technology will get cheaper as it improves. Plus, if the car is plugin, once the battery is full, the panel can sell electricity back to the grid. This could help develop a "smart grid" by making the solar panels more valuable than ones that just sit on the roof.
Speaking of which, I wonder if you could get a subsidy for a solar installation in your home if you bought such a car. New Jersey has one for permanent installations, and so does California, and I think any state that gets a reasonable amount of sun and has a fairly dense population has similar programs. - Anth, on 01/02/2009, -0/+1THE Math
Summer insolence: 1000W/sq meter
Winter insolence: 600W/sq meter
Solar cells are at most 20% efficient, and since the panels are flat on the roof of a car, the energy capture graph looks like a triangle, so the actual energy captured is roughly half of the theoretical max.
Summer day, maximum energy capture: 800Wh/sq meter
Winter day, maximum energy capture: 480Wh/sq meter
An electric Prius would have 2.5 sq meters of usable roof area, and would use about 275Wh/mi. This would yield about 7.25 miles per day in the summer and 4/mi day in the winter.
That all assumes no clouds or bad weather to block the sun. So the real world figures will be less, this is just a maximum. - eLuugy, on 01/02/2009, -0/+1i guess it's not a secret anymore
- SpitTheTruth, on 01/02/2009, -1/+2You'd have to make sure you never park in a covered parking spot ever again.
- Nannonybach, on 01/03/2009, -0/+1Well, they'll have a hell of a time if they ever try to market that in Wales, I can tell you!
- applesd, on 01/06/2009, -0/+1You have to "go green" because you want to, not for saving money. Pretty much anything involving green is more expensive than it's "normal" counterpart.
- inactive, on 01/02/2009, -1/+2When you take into account their C2C biomimetic approach when it comes to the processing of raw material, manufacturing, etc. It's nearly the same waste produced as building a gas-powered vehicle. In addition, the very batteries themselves should be enough reason to be alarmed, as they are lead-acid-based and cause more harm to the environment during the smelting process, and even with proper disposal can still carry traces of lead, which is toxic to people. And much more, you should do a little research before you make yourself look like an ass.
Also not sure about the validity of the site you're recommending, in demonstrating an impartial view, as it's probably biased in the way they initially chose the name, but in any case, don't have time to finish this, be sure to check out some EPA's published journals on this, Dept. of Energy, etc. and a great interview about it by Noam Chomsky. - TVarmy, on 01/02/2009, -0/+1You know what they say about the green ones. http://www.snopes.com/risque/aphrodisiacs/mandms.a ...
- Demos27, on 01/05/2009, -0/+1They are "kinda-sorta struggling"
- Demos27, on 01/05/2009, -0/+1Because of car companies like GM.
- Leviathan433, on 01/02/2009, -1/+2Thanks - You too!
This is digg, the home of unqualified opinions. - moduc, on 01/02/2009, -0/+1"The most practical thing to do seems to be to just build an electric car."
If it adds half mile (per what?), how designing an electric car help? They should design a solar/electric car instead. Here's why:
You already pointed out that with electric car, it doesn't add much. So the question is "is there some other way that could work with solar energy better?"
The answer is yes, if you design for solar car instead. About 10 years ago, I have seen many electric cars ran races and designed by many university.
So, with electricity for gloomy day, it's definitely possible.
Most people go to work or driving on their own. The load is mostly a single person. The only problem is the cost of the panel, which goes down dramatically from 10 years ago, and efficiency increased too.
The car can go 60 miles an hour on solar alone.
So if Toyota can reduce cost, I don't see any reason of not producing solar electric cars.
Sure, it's a big if, but 10 years ago, $60K car can run, probably they can do it today for $20K. - Demos27, on 01/05/2009, -0/+1There's always gasoline...oh wait that costs money too.
- TVarmy, on 01/02/2009, -0/+1Honestly, I'm willing to learn to like the looks of any car that gets good mileage and doesn't have major issues in 9 months of ownership, followed by bigger issues the day it's out of warranty. Plus, keeping value for a long time is a very good thing, too.
So, electric cars and hybrids get a pass from me. - kreatre2007, on 01/03/2009, -0/+1If I charge it, that means a higher electric bill AND... I'm likely using power derived from fossil fuels. This whole thing is a ***** joke. The Walmart example was just that... an example. I want a car that I can take around the block or across the country if I want to. There are other ways to make cars more energy efficient and clean. The engineers at the car makers are just pandering to the green crowd instead of using some creativity.
- moduc, on 01/02/2009, -0/+1http://www.engin.umich.edu/org/solarcar/autoshow/p ...
The car can run by itself
http://www.engin.umich.edu/org/solarcar/index.html -
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