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287 Comments
- inactive, on 02/03/2009, -15/+90Once again, Toyota outdoes itself. Can we can an American car to do this please?
- BenTheTank, on 02/03/2009, -30/+95Now if they could just make it look a little less douche-y.
- diggB, on 02/03/2009, -1/+42From http://www.evworld.com/ regarding the used coal burning plants to power electric vehicles:
Yes, electric cars have no tailpipe emissions. They produce no local pollution or carbon dioxide, but they aren't entirely pollution-free, especially if they are recharged from an electric power grid that burns significant quantities of fossil fuels like coal.
So, are they any better than a normal gasoline car? Absolutely.
For starters, in terms of carbon dioxide emissions, they generate a fraction that expelled by a normal gasoline engine car. For every gallon of gasoline burned, approximately 22 pounds of CO2, an important global warming gas, are created. If a car gets 25 miles a gallon it will emit 22 pounds of carbon dioxide over that distance, as well as other pollutants. By comparison, an electric car may travel the same distance consuming 5 kilowatt hours (kWh) of electric power at a rate of 200 watt hours/mile. Assuming the local grid is 100% coal-fired, roughly 5 lbs of coal would be consumed to create that 5kWh. Depending on the grade and carbon content of the coal, one kilowatt hour creates approximately 1.4 pounds of CO2. That's 7 pounds of CO2 vs. 22 pounds to travel the same 25 miles. But recall that the power grid isn't entirely coal-fired; it includes hydroelectric, natural gas, nuclear and a small, but growing segment of renewables.
But what about other pollutants, aren't today's cars significantly cleaner? Yes they are and getting more so all the time, which is good. But so is the power grid, at least in terms of many criteria pollutants, if not CO2. And as more wind and solar electric power is added to the grid, and older, more polluting power plants are decommissioned, the grid can get cleaner, though it will still take citizen awareness and pressure, especially in the light of the fact that hundreds of coal-fired plants plan to be built around the world in the come decades, to ensure the very best technology is used, including carbon sequestration if we plan to continue to utilize coal. - rocketman42, on 02/03/2009, -9/+49Funny how those gripes are becoming less and less accurate.
2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid: 41 city, 36 hwy
2009 Toyota Camry Hybrid: 33 city, 34 hwy
Both available now. It's too bad we can't see a Japanese car company offer a mid-sized sedan with over 40mpg... - Legionaire, on 02/03/2009, -3/+36I get 65 to 72 in my Golf blue motion....Diesel, 1.9
Hybrid need to do better before I switch - Duggan360, on 02/03/2009, -0/+27Doesnt the new fiesta get 70mpg?
Or is this just about carbon emmisions? - fahrvergnuugen, on 02/03/2009, -2/+27Polo TDI. 70MPG. No batteries.
- 3mpire, on 02/03/2009, -1/+24Ford does not use Toyota engines. Are you kidding?
"To deliver the class leading fuel economy performance, Ford’s engineers spent the past three years developing in-house the vehicle’s next-generation hybrid propulsion system. It allows the Fusion and Mercury Milan hybrid to travel up to 47 miles per hour in pure electric mode, faster than the Toyota Camry and all other hybrids currently on the road. In addition, the system’s Advanced Intake Variable Cam Timing allows the Fusion and Milan hybrids to more seamlessly transition from gas to electric mode and vice-versa."
http://jalopnik.com/5116593/ford-fusion-hybrid-bes ...
The Fusion Hybrid will be available in Spring 2009:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/2010fusion/ - inactive, on 02/03/2009, -16/+36Coal powered vehicles: The solution to all of our transportation problems!
- inactive, on 02/03/2009, -2/+21Plug-in and MPG together are misleading. I doubt the miles per gallon of gasoline has changed from normal hybrids.
- chronopublish, on 02/03/2009, -1/+19@freeridstylee
1) Coal power plants are more efficient than individual internal combustion engines. The amount of pollution per mile driven is VERY different.
2) Plug-in vehicles usually charge at night, using electricity that largely would have "gone to waste" anyway (power plants never shut down, so unused electricity at night essentially evaporates)
3) Electricity is much cheaper than gasoline.
So actually there is a big difference in every meaningful way. - rjc5056, on 02/03/2009, -4/+21I just got an '08 Civic Hybrid that gets 40 city / 45 highway / 42 combined and from what I've learned, Honda's sold in America are apparently from the production plants IN America. So is that considered an American car? Especially when the non-Detroit Fords and GMs are Made in Mexico. It's all branding at this point.
- zacheos, on 02/03/2009, -9/+25No kidding... It is about time we stop bailing out companies that can't see past their noses. Emission reductions and movement away from foreign oil is here to stay. Get with it GM.
- mrmod, on 02/03/2009, -2/+18Good on the MPG for Ford! If they get a decent interior, decent handling, and decent styling they'll probably have a contender in real people's eyes (consumers, not magazines).
- digger28, on 02/03/2009, -2/+16Chevy Volt will be rated at 100MPG!!!!, google it.
- digger28, on 02/03/2009, -1/+14Ford uses a Ford engine.
- chronopublish, on 02/03/2009, -1/+14Is no one capable of understanding why a huge coal power plant operates much more efficiently than individual internal combustion engines, and therefore is much less polluting to drive a plug-in vehicle?
Besides, reducing our dependency on foreign oil has many benefits beyond just the environment. And electricity can be generated in a number of ways - not just coal. - iamnotcreative, on 02/03/2009, -0/+13The new Fiesta with Ford's ECOnetic engine gets around 65 mpg. Unfortunately it's only available in Europe
- dougmc, on 02/03/2009, -0/+11Of course, giving a mpg figure for a car that is plugged in is just ... deceptive.
If you only did short trips -- so short that the engine never had to come on -- and charged the car after each trip, you could easily rack up thousands of miles and use no gasoline -- infinite mpg! Or if you made one trip where the engine came on for a few minutes, now you're looking at 2500 mpg.
It doesn't mean that the car is more efficient -- just means that not all it's power comes from gasoline. (Now, a plug-in hybrid is a good thing, and perhaps the car is more efficient -- I'm just saying that any mpg figures they publish should not include the benefits of the car being plugged in. Or if it does, then they need to also give the electricity that went into the car for those miles.) - MScrip, on 02/03/2009, -0/+11Electricity made from coal or nuclear is far more efficient. A giant power plant can make tons more energy for an entire city better than one engine can make energy for one car.
- ThsGuyRightHere, on 02/03/2009, -1/+11Sure you don't mean antidote?
- MScrip, on 02/03/2009, -2/+12You're mad at how long it's taking to make the FIRST EVER plug-in hybrid?
Patience my friend... - EtherGnat, on 02/03/2009, -0/+10Yeah, it's BS though because they always seem to conveniently forget about the energy and money that goes into a fully charged battery. I'm a huge supporter of plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles, but we need some new ways of talking about "mileage".
- zgf2022, on 02/03/2009, -1/+10If your charging from a source other than the gas motor you can't compare it to standard mpg. If you do that then I have an rc car that gets infinity mpg.
- JasonCox, on 02/03/2009, -8/+17Fuel efficiency is a great thing, but if Toyota really wants the Prius to sell like hotcakes they need to make it look, well, not so fugly.
- chronopublish, on 02/03/2009, -1/+10@wtf8ove
I voted for Ralph Nader, an outspoken supporter of electric vehicles. Thanks for the sentiment, though. - SnuKs, on 02/04/2009, -1/+10$40K? No Thanks. If I can afford a $40K car the cost of gas wouldn't be an issue.
The Volt look awesome, but if you wanna go against the Prius and Insight, you're gonna have to be within their price range. - mrmod, on 02/03/2009, -1/+965 mpg (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_37 ...
But, it's a great car; attractive, torque-y, and economical, yet Ford believes their base of 'dumb' consumers(the US) won't buy it because of how bad they screwed up diesel cars in the 70's. Not realizing, smart consumers and the average buyer realize diesel has changed. They realize it's economical, clean, and powerful. This is really sad. If the interior doesn't look a plastic disaster and has been thought out, I can't see a reason not to buy one.... except that parts won't be available in 10 years. - emkaysmith, on 02/03/2009, -3/+11I don't think my Prius looks any better or worse than most mid-sized cars. On the other hand, for the 50mpg I'm averaging in city+Interstate driving, I could tolerate a considerable degree of ugly.
If they could just get the price down to a comparably sized non-hybrid, they could take 2/3 of the market. The other 1/3 would still be more interested in 350hp, three tons of curb weight, and zero to 100 in 2.5 seconds.
I'd support a 50% tax on any vehicle that doesn't get at least 35mpg. - mehan, on 02/03/2009, -10/+18Astonishingly, they managed to make the new model even fuglier than the old one.
- Altotus, on 02/03/2009, -2/+10Note that the EPA's definition of mpg rating changed in the intervening period. All cars had their mileage ratings reduced -- the drop being more pronounced the higher the initial mileage rating for the car was.
That's true of other cars as well. American cars panned for low mpg also saw their mpg ratings decrease. - serif69, on 02/03/2009, -6/+14But the smug emissions will go through the roof!
- rubaaan, on 02/03/2009, -6/+14tesla's are far sexier. cant wait for their 30k sedan.
- protodon, on 02/03/2009, -2/+1065
- Chupacabraz, on 02/03/2009, -2/+10By "correctly" do you mean "like a douche" and slowing everyone else down? :)
- jmcrane, on 02/03/2009, -0/+7Nice analysis, but to be perfect, it could use line losses on the grid, which would adjust the electricity figures for the slightly worse.
sleestakslayer:
You forgot about the main part of CO2, which is the oxygen that comes from the air. This is how one gallon (6lbs) of gasoline can equal 20 lbs of CO2.
See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/co2.shtml for reference. - PGPirate, on 02/03/2009, -1/+8A hummer that uses baby seal oil for fuel. And yourself?
- pathouston22, on 02/03/2009, -1/+8So how exactly long does it take to charge the battery and what are the costs for doing so? It doesn't matter if its electric if electricity costs continue to rise and it jacks up your electric bill.
- BenTheTank, on 02/03/2009, -2/+9emkaysmith,
Don't forget that some of us have to own a truck due to our jobs or where we live.
I would have a hard time transporting a 12' ladder in a Prius. - york2600, on 02/03/2009, -0/+7Some of us are quite happy with the way it looks and it seems to sell pretty well where I live. Up until the economy fell out there was a waiting list. Good luck finding a waiting list for an American car.
- moose26, on 02/03/2009, -1/+7How long before we see the cost of electricity start skyrocketing beyond what it currently is?
- Cjaiceman, on 02/03/2009, -0/+6Diesel is the way to go, everyone is stuck on gas, sucks for them. More powerful, more fuel efficient and just as quiet as gas engines, and I don't have the heavy batteries weighing me down! That's the only way to ride.
- TimeDotCom, on 02/03/2009, -3/+9Innovation is a nice anecdote to the doom-and-gloom surrounding the car industry.
- davidrools, on 02/03/2009, -0/+6Any car running on 100% electric power gets infinity miles per gallon
- beesaretasty, on 02/03/2009, -0/+6My non-hybrid Pontiac Vibe gets just a couple below 40 miles to the gallon real world. But then again, it's just a Toyota Matrix with some tweaks.
So the real question is why does my regular car get better MPG than the Camry Hybrid? - Logicexe, on 02/03/2009, -2/+8So we're smug because we prioritize fuel efficiency over aesthetics? Uhhh, ok.
- mmittimm, on 02/03/2009, -0/+5Fair enough.
- r00fus, on 02/03/2009, -0/+5McCain? Is that you?
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/election2008/ig ... - rocketman42, on 02/03/2009, -0/+5@TedTschoop
Ford does not use Toyota engines. Several years ago, Ford and Toyota agreed to a patent sharing agreement. I don't know the exact details, but part of it included Toyota's hybrid technology. However, Ford had already developed their own, so this was more to protect each other legally, as opposed to licensing the technology like Nissan did.
And I did get a little ahead of myself. You can currently preorder them, but they won't hit dealers for about two more months. And like most cars, if you are really interested in purchasing one, just contact your local dealer. They probably have plenty of time these days to answer any questions you have. - Jeremy82465, on 02/03/2009, -2/+7Yes we are switching from one fossil fuel to another, at least electricity can be renovated in the future to be provided by wind, solar, geo thermal, etc. I dont see to many cars in the future with giant wind turbines on them.
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