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71 Comments
- Retrospekt, on 07/10/2009, -2/+17Range is disappointing.
- chronopublish, on 07/10/2009, -0/+14Not a factor. Cars are typically charged overnight during off-peak hours. Studies have shown that the existing grid can support over 100 million plug-in vehicles because of this.
- ideaash, on 07/10/2009, -0/+13I read this on GM-Volt.com , it is gong to cost 47 grand and will have just 14 miles all electric range, for God sake give me something for 25 k $ which gives 30 miles on electric, and rest on gas, I will buy in a second, so many many others.
http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/04/toyota-commits-to-ma ... - sockpuppets, on 07/10/2009, -0/+10Try the microwave instead.
- TVarmy, on 07/10/2009, -0/+9Yep. Also consider that electric cars are almost certainly going to charge via a scheduling computer. Thus, they'll aim to charge the fastest when electricity is cheapest. Combined with smart grid technology, or even just an internet connection to the power plant to get the current rates, plug-in EVs and hybrids are bound to work with the grid. Plug-in hybrids may even work as a "flywheel" for the power plant, storing excess electricity and selling it back during the day.
- inactive, on 07/10/2009, -0/+8Hydrogen is a dead already. Top gear is like Mythbusters, it may prove a result under certain circumstances but they are hardly peer review. For EG Mythbusters ran a show proving Ion winds fail in a vacuum. What they don't recall is America has 2 explorer missions using ion propulsion. One of them went to Jupiter, the other to Pluto IIRC. I would call that a fail! Ion winds actually work better in a vacuum.
- appleseed1234, on 07/10/2009, -1/+9I'm so sick of these "plans to"s and "hopes to"s for stuff like this, how about a "will" for once?
- drallo, on 07/10/2009, -2/+10How do you figure the coal required to power an electric car generates more pollution than an internal combustion engine in a similar car?
Because there sure as hell isn't any science that agrees with you.
Not to mention that lots of energy isn't generated in coal-burning plants. - rocketman42, on 07/10/2009, -0/+7"The trouble with plug-in hybrids is that once you use up your electric range, you're towing around a dead battery, which hurts fuel economy"
As opposed to the problem with all-electrics, that once you use up your electric range, you're literally towing around a dead battery. - Gman1223, on 07/10/2009, -0/+7Chevy Volt?
- diggB, on 07/10/2009, -0/+7Although I bet the average daily commute for most people is less than 18miles, I wish the range was in the mid-20's at the very least.
- inactive, on 07/10/2009, -0/+6Otherwise the energy is converted to heat and dissipated. The generators keep running.
- TVarmy, on 07/10/2009, -0/+6The generators at even coal plants are more efficient than an internal combustion engine, as they don't have as many design constraints as a car's engine (size, noise, etc). Further, most electric cars will be charging at night, when electricity is off-peak and cheaper. Thus, it's using capacity that's already there but is going unused. I think there's room for something like 20 million electric vehicles charging at night already, and it's not like everyone will buy a new EV at once. The grid will have time to adapt.
PS: Also, currently only about half of the power in the US comes from coal. Nuclear and wind power are starting to become more popular, and solar power has been growing dramatically cheaper and more efficient recently, so it's hard to tell what the dominant fuel or fuels of the future will be. - magus_melchior, on 07/10/2009, -0/+5Potentially phenomenal gas mileage for 40+ grand? If I had that kind of cash I might opt for the Tesla sedan for a few grand more, especially if Toyota simply mods the Prius. If they do it to their entire fleet, however, that would be monumental.
What would really be the next game-changer is a lowered SUV (aka a "crossover") that is either plug-in hybrid or all-electric. The best way to do it is with a composite body/chassis, but that would drive costs through the roof, unfortunately. - xerodustrial, on 07/10/2009, -0/+5Only 30,000? That's how many they should be making every month, by the year 20 ***** 12.
- bman85, on 07/10/2009, -1/+6(-1) Energy is created far more efficiently in power plants (even coal) than in an internal combustion engine, not to mention the fact that not all power plants are coal. The pollution per unit of work numbers are far better for electric cars than for gas cars, so get off you're high horse with that...
(+1) I'm not very educated on the impacts on Li-Ion batterys in the long term, so i cant argue that, but I would imagine its not good, so...
-1 +1 = 0 so your comment was deserves neither a digg up or down, so off I go... - TVarmy, on 07/10/2009, -0/+4Woosh.
- MarkBrent, on 07/10/2009, -0/+4But killer for the environment sooo better pay for electricity.
- chronopublish, on 07/10/2009, -2/+6The trouble with plug-in hybrids is that once you use up your electric range, you're towing around a dead battery, which hurts fuel economy. Presumably this is a relatively small battery since it only gets 18 miles, but from an efficiency standpoint this still bothers me. For any household with 2 cars, it's almost certainly more efficient to have an electric car and a gas car than 2 plug-in hybrids.
It's my opinion that the market for electric vehicles will actually be much bigger than the one for plug-in hybrids, once both are on the market. Time will tell. - Feenix566, on 07/10/2009, -0/+3He already is.
- AMSRay, on 07/10/2009, -3/+6The range makes it totally useless except for applications where you might use an electric golf cart. Electric-only (not hybrid) vehicles will not go mainstream until they can go the same range (or close) as a fossil-fuel vehicle on a tank of fuel. And they need to cost within 10% of what a combustion engine vehicle in the same class would cost. So far, Tesla is the only company in the ballpark, and if they can get the prices down they're there. But climate change will not happen unless we have non-carbon electric plants such as more nuclear, more hydroelectric, more solar, more wind or whatever that lets us close coal and diesel generating facilities.
- TheCash, on 07/10/2009, -1/+4Or super efficient blue diesel engines, which are taken for granted in the UK and Europe, but our retarded EPA seems to have a bone about here, that get better mileage while providing more horsepower then a hybrid could ever dream of.
The episode where they pretty much laugh at the Prius for a half hour is one of the best episodes of Top Gear, only second to the one where they go camping, and try to haul a 5th wheel with a 4 cylinder KIA. - TheCash, on 07/10/2009, -2/+5Or, more consumers could start buying more hybrid cars, demand a plug-in option, and drive the economy in that direction.
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 07/10/2009, -0/+3Google the term "bankruptcy"
I think you could learn a lot! - SpeedSteamBoat, on 07/11/2009, -0/+2You buried me for stating a fact? Cool.
- carlosos, on 07/11/2009, -0/+2diggB,
Do you believe you can recharge your car with electricity from work? If not than your work will have to be only 9 miles away but that is still pretty good for a lot of people. I will be moving next week to be closer to work and 18 miles charge will last a week of driving to work and back.
jack12345678910,
Are you serious? Am I in the minority of people that move for a new job if it takes more than half an hour to get to work? - Oinkie, on 07/10/2009, -6/+8GM plans to produce more ***** cars and ask for more bail outs.
- howdareyou, on 07/10/2009, -0/+2The only thing Top Gear proved was that a Tesla Roadster isn't a great track day car.
- carlosos, on 07/11/2009, -0/+2Or nuclear, or wind, or solar, or whatever you electric company uses. Even coal powered will be better for the environment due to the higher efficiency compared to the many small inefficient car engines.
- ecoop3r, on 07/10/2009, -0/+2More like volt will be one lease for GM,
- chronopublish, on 07/10/2009, -0/+2You are correct, but an electric car typically gets much more than 18 miles of range.
In all-electric mode, these new plug-in hybrids need to use extra energy moving a gas engine that's doing nothing. In ICE-mode, the car uses extra energy moving a dead battery. By trying to have it both ways, the car does neither well, and in the end wastes a lot of energy.
For typical everyday driving, I prefer an electric car. For long-range driving, I'd much rather have a high-MPG gas car. If I need both and am not a member of a multi-car household, then the plug-in hybrid might be an attractive alternative, but I think the market for these vehicles will be smaller than Toyota thinks. - Indpthinker, on 07/10/2009, -2/+3hydrogen is also dangerous to store
- richlizard24, on 07/10/2009, -2/+3I was going to digg you up, but the end just made you look like a jackass.
- marx2k, on 07/11/2009, -0/+1How's that mullet coming along?
- burnt1ce85, on 07/10/2009, -0/+1ahh okay. Btw, I'm all up for electric vehicles just as long as blackouts dont occur.
- brainboy7777, on 07/10/2009, -4/+5top gear had a pretty good segment why hybrids are not worth it. the only real clean option possible is hydrogen, and that's expensive as hell to store.
- JQP123, on 07/10/2009, -2/+3We're talking "hybrid" vehicles, not battery only. The idea is to assist the gasoline engine and improve it's gas mileage, not completely take over it's function.
- bbarker, on 07/11/2009, -0/+1Actually, the dead battery can still serve the same purpose as the batteries in a normal hybrid, so it's not all wasted.
- Moralogic, on 07/10/2009, -0/+1Time to hack the power planet to get my car charged sooner.
- Indecision77, on 07/10/2009, -1/+2Hybrids or plug-in hybrids? There's a big difference.
Link? - graminal, on 07/11/2009, -0/+1I am also from Oregon, except in my Oregon we are blessed enough to get 63.5% of our power from hydro, and only 4.4% from coal.
I can give sources as well:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/st_profil ...
Oregon is on page 227.
In the last few years, as you can see from the data, hydroelectric power generation has been reduced sharply, with a corresponding increase in electricity from natural gas. Oregon only has one coal plant, at Boardman, and just from looking at the historical data, its capacity may be about double current production. - NanoChron, on 07/10/2009, -1/+2volt is slated to get 40 miles on a full charge. Hopefully Volt will be at lease one win for GM
- brian78347, on 08/12/2009, -0/+1I agree with the comments near the top. It would be nice if the range (miles per electric battery yield) could be more. They may figure that out by 2012.
- fooljoe, on 07/13/2009, -0/+1how about an all-electric SUV that gets 120 miles per change and has batteries that are proven to last over 100,000 miles without range degradation, and costs $42,000? would that be a "game-changer"?
oh wait, toyota made that car 10 years ago, but then lobbyists killed the ZEV mandate and Chevron bought patent control over NiMH batteries and has effectively squashed the technology since.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV - bunkertor7, on 07/15/2009, -0/+1You just made my day!
- specialK16, on 07/10/2009, -4/+5Because, as you can see from the posts above, americans like to bitch and moan about every single little thing.
- inactive, on 07/11/2009, -0/+0how old are you diggb? the average daily work commute alone is at least 1hr 30mins. only rich people/very poor work and live in the same city. the middle class always works here and live there.
- Amazetbm, on 07/12/2009, -1/+1Yeah okay. Give me a TDI.
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 07/10/2009, -2/+2No more dangerous than gasoline.
Actually, considerably safer. -
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