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95 Comments
- Frixionburne, on 07/07/2009, -1/+23The concept behind the "clunker" trade in is awful. Please tell me what good reason I have for trading in my old car that gets less than 18 mpg for a new American car (bad) that will still cost me around 5 years of my life in payment plans. I have a 1987 chevrolet celebrity that will run until the world ends. I'm pretty much 100% positive that keeping my 22 year old car and working to maintain it will cost infinitely less and leave a better carbon footprint than up and buying a new fusion (eew), cobalt (REALLY EEW), g5 (thats a cobalt again), or anything from Chrystler.
When I do buy a new car, it will be a car worth buying like a nice BMW or a Benz. Until then, I'll stick to my 1990 and under rule for buying used cars.
I also forgot to include repair costs and general maintenance. New cars that break outside of the warranty can't just be "fixed" anymore. Now you need a diagnostic tool that costs 2 grand along with the money to replace half of the car when things go wrong. - drmangrum, on 07/07/2009, -0/+12If they really want to sell more cars, they need to force their dealers to STOP PLAYING GAMES.
They need to sell cars at a set price that's fair to the consumer. The consumer shouldn't be forced to do weeks of research into pricing games just so they can stand a chance at getting a fair deal on a car. Stop the mind games. Stop the "i'll ask the manager" *****. Stop the nickle&dime games. - lAciDl, on 07/07/2009, -0/+11there's no reason to buy new when every car for the past 5+ years looks the same. buy used for almost 1/2 the price.
- Trick07, on 07/07/2009, -7/+17We are in the market for a new car and I would consider a Ford... the better half likes the Flex to replace her Mitsubishi Montero but buying from an American dealer is what will probably keep us away from them.
I long ago gave up on GM (never cared for their cars) and Chrysler even though I love Jeep's. I have had many (most recent a 1998 Cherokee) but gave up on Jeep 10 years ago because of the crappy sales practices and dealer service Chrysler offers even with their "5-Star" dealers.
People would like to buy American but American car companies just plain suck. The cars are better now yes, but the dealers are the same and now with less dealers to compete against, you can bet the bad deals will triple now... The dealers know you have to deal with their crappy service because they are only one around for miles now and figure why drive 30 miles away to deal with the other rip-off dealer... - robertisaar, on 07/07/2009, -0/+9unfortunately the government doesn't have the common sense to see it from that point of view. so, you'll be paying for other people to get new vehicles through your taxes....
ain't america great? - Kinneas12, on 07/07/2009, -1/+10I can't click Page 2
- Saint3k, on 07/07/2009, -7/+16Step 1 - Ship jobs overseas.
Step 2 - ?
Step 3 - Scream "WHY IS NO ONE IS BUYING CARS???"
Seriously. When did intelligence become extinct? - GhostInAShell, on 07/07/2009, -8/+17Hark! The village idiot awakens!
- jsffive, on 07/07/2009, -4/+12What these idiots don't understand is that, even if you GAVE THE ***** CARS AWAY... a person without a job can't even afford to register, license, and insure an automobile.
But what can you expect from these people, who are totally disconnected from reality?
Take a drive around the Northern Virginia Beltway some evening. Or better yet, stand in a high rise building near D.C. and look out the window. They have no frame of reference because THEY haven't seen the massive decline in jobs, because that entire area is subsidized by government, and the ONLY imports and exports from that region are MONEY... and POLITICS... items that will NEVER decrease, as long as they continue wielding the power. THEY think that everyone can enslave themselves to a ***** bank, so they can drive a new car around for six years, before it falls apart and has to be replaced.
And how can we expect any different story from our media, when they themselves make six-figure salaries?
Do any of you know what a Manufacturers Statement of Origin is?
It's the ACTUAL title to the car. Even after outright buying the car, you only receive a CERTIFICATE of Title, not the ACTUAL title. THAT'S why you have to continue paying property tax on the car, and that's why you have to have it licensed and insured, because you only CO-OWN the vehicle with the government! In fact, the ONLY chance you ever get to acquire the MSO, is when you first buy the car from the manufacturer. But even then, you are unlikely to get such a document, because the government threatens the car makers to not give those out.
It's all a rotten scam.
***** being a slave to an automobile. Things will change in this country, when the Congressmen and Senators, and ALL the wealthy elites, instead of riding limousines to their jobs every day, have to get on a bus and ride to work with the rest of us! - identifiedlogo, on 07/07/2009, -1/+9Just one questions, all this talk of how the car dealership are in trouble, but I don't see a significant change in the price of cars. What are they doing with all those cars?
- inactive, on 07/07/2009, -2/+9I would love to buy American, but the dealerships just priced themselves out of the market with regards to their crappy service, inflated prices, and shoddy sales practices. It's too little too late, and blaming Obama and just the unions is childishly short sited. We certainly do need a new model with respect to Automobiles, and a worker/owned model seems to be the way to go. Give each employee a share in the business / profits, then you will see QA go way up! and the disconnect between the product they are building and the rewards they get disappear.
- diggdat, on 07/07/2009, -0/+7Always surprised at someone taking the time to stop in and post, on a story they were not interested in enough to read.
I get disagreeing with a story and having a comment but not caring about it and bothering to tell someone? - doctechnical, on 07/07/2009, -1/+8Not only that, but it royally screws people with low incomes that *might* have paid a couple hundred for that clunker, but Obama's gonna pay you a whole lot more (of taxpayer money). Doesn't anyone think this stuff through?
- inactive, on 07/07/2009, -6/+13What a naive post. You touch on one topic that makes sense, then migrate towards a political target which makes little sense, except it presses hot buttons on people that think like yourself. Neanderthals.
Obama's stimulus was necessary to keep these "employers" of many alive while they bounce back with a plan to change the outcome of their future which appeared to be written in cold hard steel. Hopefully they won't squander this chance to change for the better and come up with a different philosophy.
We are screwed for reasons you don't care to touch on. Let me point a few out, and shed some light on your sound-bite ridden comment.
- Bankers (greedy greedy) abused a system for profit and ignored the almost certain consequences. Many people who you lumped in as screwed by Obama and Democrats, etc, are people who were awarded loans they did not deserve, and as such were screwed when interest rates were raised, and balloon payments became due. Hedging your future on a mortgage balloon payment is not what one should do.
- Bush brought us his War of revenge, and oil. You should be concerned with those that profited from that war.
- Big 3 and others. Why didn't we move towards alternative fuels sooner? Greed. Can you blame the unions for that? NO. Oil.
- How about people like Madoff and others like him, bilking trusted investors of all their money? Where did all the billions go? He's certainly not alone, just the poster child for the many out there not yet caught.
- Our consumptive way of life. We are a huge consuming nation that should lead by example. We don't. That ended not long after WWII. We are no longer seen as the protectors, but rather the fat, lazy, abusive invaders, pushing our will on other countries. Face it. Change it.
Do you honestly believe the GOP would have changed one thing?
I believe we are headed down the right path, though it is going to be painful, in the long run, we'll be better off, and so will the rest of the world. - vegx, on 07/07/2009, -7/+14Using "change we can believe in" sarcastically and then "B. Hussein". A fine Digg post, this is.
- mouthbreether, on 07/07/2009, -1/+7Cash for clunkers is a horrible program. The only people that can benefit are the ones that drive cars that are worth less than $4500 and can afford a payment on a brand new vehicle. If your car is worth more than $4500, you only get the $4500 and not the trade in value of your car. You might as well get the trade in value as you normally would and not participate in the program. If drive a crappy car that is worth less than $4500, you probably can't afford a new car payment. If you can afford a new car and you drive something worth less than $4500 by choice, you're probably a niggard who wouldn't buy one anyway.
- gmancometh28, on 07/07/2009, -2/+7You're right, in fact, GM is selling the new Camaro's for 5-10K OVER sticker price. Its absolutely insane. I know that the Camaro is new, and a flagship car for Chevy, but the fact is they're bankrupt. You would think that at the least GM and Chrysler would be selling for stick or a few grand less.
- Snoogs, on 07/07/2009, -0/+51) You don't need to buy American with the rebate- you can buy ANY new car under $45,000... you can still get your Benz unless you're going to afford a CL (200k on cars.com right now)
2) Carbon footprint is a big issue, but a bigger issue is being dependent on oil coming from the most unstable region on the planet. We've already spent trillions trying to make the Middle East friendly to our needs, but using 1/3 less gas is pretty significant (18 mpg +10 mpg (28) to earn the $4500 = %36 reduction-- this goes for the 18 mpg, lower mpg sees a bigger value increase)
3) This is only going to make any sense with cars worth significantly less than $4500... this type of car will typically already be paying out the ass for repairs in this condition. Yes, you can do it yourself on the older cars, but you will be doing it- often.
4) This is supposed to be benefiting the new car industry as much as any consumer. Our economy is screwed right now. Money is staying in the pockets of people rather than supporting American business (yes, even foreign cars have factories here) Our housing market is screwed too, but the tax rebates for first time buyers is already improving the market (albeit slightly) - mk2ja, on 07/07/2009, -1/+6Ford may not be as bad of a bet as we had been thinking. Refer to "How Ford Avoided Bankruptcy" at http://digg.com/d1vuis. I hadn't been wanting to buy American either, but I guess I'll take another look at their line.
- MeNorski, on 07/07/2009, -0/+5Um no. GM is not selling the Camaro for 5-10k over. Its the dealerships that decide what they are going to sell the cars at. GM just sets the MSRP prices. There are shady dealers who always try to capitalize on demand, when popular cars come out. GM has no say in what prices a car dealer can sell there cars at. This is the same for all auto manufacturers. Its also not very hard to find Camaro's being sold at MSRP. In fact my local Chevrolet dealership "Grand Prize Chevy/Cadillac" in Nanuet NY is selling them at MSRP.
You also have to understand that in this market there are many lazy Camaro enthusiasts that are willing to pay above MSRP to get the first Camaros. There still is a wait for them. dealerships cant even keep the cars on the lot. It's called supply and demand. I dont like that dealerships can do this but they can and do.
1EE37 - Camaro LS: $22,995 V6
1EF37 - Camaro 1LT: $24,630 V6
1EH37 - Camaro 2LT: $27,330 V6
1ES37 - Camaro 1SS: $30,995 V8
1ET37 - Camaro 2SS: $34,180 V8 - MatzahMan, on 07/07/2009, -2/+7you my friend are a glimmer of hope in a ignorant community
- maximilen, on 07/07/2009, -0/+5How bad? Bad.
- mksmothers, on 07/07/2009, -2/+6Edmonds and Consumer reports ranks Toyota, Honda and Hyundai much higher than Ford. I'd buy one of them before purchasing an American car.
- Bloodwine, on 07/07/2009, -0/+4It's a good time to be a mechanic.
- yerdaddy, on 07/07/2009, -12/+16You're not the smart one of the family, eh?
- HCProgramr, on 07/07/2009, -2/+6One of the most insightful posts I've read in a long time. Bravo to you, sir.
- bmcnally, on 07/07/2009, -0/+4I wonder how many people know what "niggard" means.
I'm guessing the person who dugg you down doesn't.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/niggard - monkeymanx, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1908448,0 ...
All on one page - mouthbreether, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3A room full of engineers doesn't really surprise me that you fit in the category of people that can take advantage of this. You're $0 car probably ran great too.
- malik_nyc, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3I must have missed something, so you can only buy or lease a new American car?
For someone who has an older gas guzzler whose market value is less than $4,500 and is in need of a new car, this doesn't seem like a bad deal. Of ‘course if it is limited to just American cars then that does slim down the number of cars that would even be appealing to either me or my wife... - V3NOM, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3I had to open it in IE to get to page 2.
Link:
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1 ...
EDIT: monkeymanx beat me to it with a better solution. - inactive, on 07/07/2009, -3/+6The clunker program is totally stupid. My 22 year old cars gets 30+MPG, passes emissions nearly perfectly clean and hauls serious ass. My car gets better mileage than a brand new Civic.
Dohbama can have my 'clunker' as soon as they can pry it from my cold dead fingers. I'll not throw away a perfectly good car because some idiot politician says so. - alf86, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3Everybody's out of work and broke. Even if they could afford a new car, no one wants to buy from a company they have no faith in that is now owned by the government. Not to mention, they've learned it might be a good idea to save as much money as they can.
- FredFredrickson, on 07/07/2009, -4/+7If you think that the only auto dealers that are being saved are those owned by Democrats, you might want to up your meds - the stupid is still leaking out of your brain, somehow.
- Teknikscian, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3they need to bring back the light weight, 4cyl hatchback cars....all the gadgets and flashy ish on cars makes them heavy...needs more gas and a bigger engine yada yada
- Ebacherville, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3you can buy a import with the cash for clunkers.., its not only for american made cars.. besides most american made cars that qualify are actually made outside of this country.. the idea is to lessen the need for oil.. and pollution, a old car that gets 25mpg and a new one that gets 25mpg puts out allot less pollutants
- Teknikscian, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3how come no one thinks of the weight of the batteries in the prius or where they go once they finish out their life cycle?
- tgc1, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3Unemployment goes up, people have less money, people have less money to piss away on cars. Unemployment goes down, people have more money, car sales go up. Not a hard concept really.
Incentive programs and clunkers programs are just plain not going to work. If people don't have any money what makes them think there will suddenly be more cars sold? Deal with the unemployment issue then we'll talk about how many cars can be sold. People are going to be worrying about paying their mortgage and/or rent before a car payment. Because lets face it, living in your car ***** SUCKS! - Frixionburne, on 07/07/2009, -1/+4My point is that the repair costs for your old gas guzzler will pretty much always be less than the costs of a new car, even with the credit.
8 grand will buy you an amazing automobile from anywhere in a 20 year range of about 1970-1990. I bought a 1990 VW Corrado G60 for $500, put another $500 in the suspension, and need to rebuild the engine (you don't have to go this far, I'm just incredibly anal retentive about my cars. Also g60 superchargers are problematic). I can do all of this on a $5,000 budget. The price of a new Cobalt (for the sake of a low priced new car) is around 15 grand, about 11 grand after the rebate. I'm dumping 6-8k in a supercharged VW instead of over 10 on a new car. This gives me 4k for fuel and maintenance. Basic coverage on the cobalt is 3 year, or 36,000 miles + all the ***** fine print that will screw you into paying for something.
I won't even go into diesel cars running on used fry oil. The numbers would just make you mad. - drmangrum, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3No thanks. I used to sell cars for CarMax. Most of their cars are stupidly overpriced. For a 1 or 2 thousand more you can get a brand new car at a much lower interest rate. The only way I would buy a car from CarMax is if it was a high end car or an older car. Anything late model, it's just better to get a new one at a dealer.
- Ebacherville, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3the clunker program would not apply to your 30+mpg car.. they need to get 18mpg or less.. and then to get the money you need to get a car that gets 22mpg or better average combines milage.. to get the $4500 you need to get a car that gets a minimum of 28mpg average, thats leaves out all but the small econoboxes.
But think about this, a 1986 grand marquee (big full sized boat of a car) with a V8 in it doesn't qualify.. it gets better than 18 mpg average.
The program does kind of suck.. but it will get some low MPG cars replaced by high mpg cars..
I have a beat up 1987 CRX, gets me better milage than any hybrid.. and im not selling it :) - Akairenn, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3"cares if you apply for the program or not?"
I care, because I'm the one footing the bill for this ridiculous program.
A program which is a complete waste. More corporate welfare for failed businesses. EPA ratings have always been woefully inaccurate, and the idea that saving a few gallons of gas will stop us from sucking at the teat of the Middle East is laughable.
If you want to waste my money, Mr. Obama, at least waste it on something that might potentially return results. Fund some government science to get us some non-pricey greenmobiles. - sirdarksoul, on 07/07/2009, -0/+3If memory serves me correctly about 30 yrs ago when cheap imports began killing American industry wholesale. Steel went. Textiles went. Electronics went. The auto industry is pretty much the last to hold on. I know Diggers will scream "Those industries were dinosaurs and besides they only employed middle class blue collar workers". Those who do have no clue that it was the middle class who drove our economy. We've reaped a permanent underclass living in squalid conditions and strung out on meth. How's that for the results of globalization?
- Flagg3, on 07/07/2009, -0/+2The program is not for your car, since it get's 30+ miles per gallon it wouldn't even be eligible, since eligibility is based almost entirely on trading up to a car that get's substantially better mileage. Plus, the program is completely voluntary, so why do you think anyone actually wants your car or cares if you apply for the program or not?
But thanks again for your brilliant observations and comments. Perhaps next time you might actually learn about the subject you are complaining about before you complain... - rjey, on 07/07/2009, -0/+2I love how they have the picture of the new Camaro awaiting shipment. The Camaro plant is running two shifts (the only GM one running two shifts).
At least put a picture in there of a car that is not selling well. The Camaro is selling for thousands over MSRP as fast as they can make them with no signs of slowing down. - Beylan, on 07/07/2009, -0/+2You would think that selling cars would be preferable to NOT selling cars... but now that they are getting bailout money hand over fist I guess they don't need to anymore.
- Frixionburne, on 07/07/2009, -1/+3If you don't buy a new car, the resources necessary for making said new car are effectively "nullified".
If you want to lessen the oil consumption, buy a used diesel. Or be free of oil completely, and go down to your pizza shop and offer to take the used oil off their hands. You can run that ***** all day in a diesel (obviously with some filtering, but that just means you need to go buy some cheesecloth at your local supermarket) - Trick07, on 07/07/2009, -0/+2No argument there... I had a Mazda 6 and it was a great car, Ford Duratec V6 and all. Toyota is our last choice and the better half doesn't like the looks of most Hyundai's out there even though she loves their price.
- inactive, on 07/07/2009, -0/+2I agree, Learn to maintain your current car. People that buy cars every 6 years are morons. That's just throwing away money, which so many of today's businesses depend on. I have a 88 Toyota Supra that I plan on keeping forever, no car payment and it's only going to be worth more as it gets older because it's a classic. It's a well built car, handles great, runs great, and still turns heads. People need to get smart and stop depending on everyone else to do things for them. Throwing money at it won't save you anymore.
- darkfate, on 07/07/2009, -0/+2The situation where I am is opposite. A lot of the car dealers are literally right across the street from each other or only a few miles down the same road. This is especially true for the used car dealerships in my area.
They still do rip you off on a lot of services though. No one in my direct family has owned an american car though. Toyota, Nissan and Mazda for us. -
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