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65 Comments
- Spuy767, on 09/14/2009, -2/+42You know the Germans always make good stuff.
- DirtPile, on 09/14/2009, -0/+22Will you take an avi or mov or wmv?
- doublefelix, on 09/14/2009, -0/+19Three powerplants, three planetary gearsets, four multiplate clutches, and seven speeds with a manual shift mode. Plus an all-wheel-drive system where it is shifted between the front and rear axles....wow, that would be fun to take to some transmission shop out in the sticks, just to actually see a quote that's more than a new car.
- mourne, on 09/14/2009, -0/+14I don't know if I'd say 'better', but definitely cheaper.
- orlyfactor, on 09/14/2009, -0/+13Watch your language, young man. My grandparents also washed people's mouths out with soap.
- protodon, on 09/14/2009, -2/+13Can I get an mpg?
- inactive, on 09/14/2009, -1/+11They'll love my nuts.
- inactive, on 09/14/2009, -0/+9Hey, they did kill efficiently. :(
- inactive, on 09/14/2009, -0/+8KM/L? Who uses that?
L/100KM is standard. - vault, on 09/14/2009, -0/+7They still need to make it drive like a BMW. Can't just power it like a Prius clone and call it a day.
- woofers07, on 09/14/2009, -0/+6And that would be different than servicing any luxury German car how?
-Audi owner - Spuy767, on 09/14/2009, -0/+6Thank you for getting the reference.
- Jektal, on 09/14/2009, -0/+6"most" != "all"
- gavroche, on 09/14/2009, -0/+5I want a matroska with some moskovskaya.
- PsychoPNut, on 09/14/2009, -0/+4not a wmv please
- tomjthayer, on 09/14/2009, -4/+8so tired of "possible future concept hybrids" can somebody just make one that doesn't look like a roller skate and start selling it already!
- wjlaw100, on 09/14/2009, -0/+4Looks as if BMW will need some EE's just to service the thing.... wow.
- cplusplus, on 09/14/2009, -0/+4That cutaway of the complicated transmission is a good argue against hybrids and for pure electric.
- Logicexe, on 09/14/2009, -0/+4You do know that the Tesla's battery packs weigh a total of 900 pounds right? That's almost half the weight of a normal Lotus. Now it's a big step up from the EV1's 1500 pound battery pack, but it's still got a long way to go. That's fine though, gasoline cars weren't perfect when they first came out either.
As for battery swaps, yeah, good luck. We don't even have a standard plug design and you're looking to a standard battery pack? These things weigh upwards of several hundred pounds and more, it's not like popping out the battery of your car and replacing it with a new one. Then you've got battery memory. Would you give someone a brand new battery for their battery that already has 50,000 miles on it? What happens if during your swap your almost new battery gets replaced with one that's old and barely holds a charge? Despite my criticisms I still think it's a innovative idea, and it can work in some places, I just doubt it'll ever be mainstream. - solidsnake1298, on 09/14/2009, -1/+4I see what you did there.
- wyzik, on 09/14/2009, -0/+3How about just selling more diesel-powered cars in the U.S.?
- prisoner24601, on 09/14/2009, -0/+3How much does the battery pack on a tesla weigh?
- Logicexe, on 09/14/2009, -0/+3It's not like studies have shown that powering an electric car with coal produced electricity actually pollutes less than your average car. And of course, everyone knows that coal is the only source of electricity. Screw them know it all scientists and their "data."
- danieldantastic, on 09/14/2009, -0/+2Brilliant retort.
- pathouston22, on 09/14/2009, -0/+2"The only thing the EV 1 and current electric cars fail at is driving for long trips and torque for heavy loads."
And cold weather.
There goes half the market. - mfawcett, on 09/14/2009, -1/+3"most", not "all".
- danieldantastic, on 09/14/2009, -1/+3BMW hydrogen is crap. They just funnel hydrogen into the internal combustion engine and it gets like 4mpg.
- Jektal, on 09/14/2009, -0/+2Theora 4 Life
- erkokite, on 09/14/2009, -2/+4Km/L?
- unclefire, on 09/14/2009, -1/+3Seems like a wasted effort and alot of complexity for not a lot of value to me.
- merky1, on 09/14/2009, -0/+2These just seem like a horrific waste of technology. I'll hold final judgment for the MPG ratings, but it seems that these cars were designed with hybrid technology to qualify as hybrids instead of increasing mileage / decreasing emissions.
- consoneo, on 09/14/2009, -0/+2You and at least two other people, at the time of this writing (+3), didn't read the article. It says these are not prototypes, they are production cars.
"The ActiveHybrid X6, due to go on sale in the U.S. later this year" - guyincognitoo, on 09/14/2009, -0/+2Having nice things is a negative personality trait? Does that include things like a computer and internet connection?
- ShiftyBizniss, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1***** WMV.
- Logicexe, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1I agree, but the battery technology just isn't there yet. People are weird with their cars. Technically, I only need a car that can drive about 60-80 kilometers a day. It happens maybe 3 or 4 times a year that I'll drive more than 80km in one day. Despite this, I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that if I ran out of power I'd be stuck for hours while it charged up.
Hybrids are a great necessary transitional step towards fully electric vehicles. - yngtimmy, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1cross-sections are always fun
- etx313, on 09/14/2009, -1/+2I heard a couple years ago they were working with GM on this. I wonder if that relationship didn't work out. Looks like an amazing design.
- xdre, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1BMW's more closely aligned with Daimler on hybrid stuff these days, but the underlying tech is still GM's Two-Mode hybrid.
- danieldantastic, on 09/14/2009, -1/+2Hybrids are stupid.
The desire for luxury brands is a negative personality trait.
This is the best answer I've seen to our transportation/carbon dilemma:
http://www.ted.com/talks/shai_agassi_on_electric_c ... - Jektal, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1I'm so tired of "German engineering (oh joy!)"
- danieldantastic, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1My uncle was an engineer on the GM EV 1, the electric car from the mid-90s that blew away the Corvette on the track. They had to limit the acceleration to make it feel more like an economy car and to preserve the charge on the primitive lead acid battery. By the second revision, they had upgraded to the same Nickel Cadmium crap BMW is using. Except that the EV 1 had a mere 12 moving parts to maintain, compared to the thousands in this fictional jaloppy.
The only thing the EV 1 and current electric cars fail at is driving for long trips and torque for heavy loads. In every other sense they destroy gas cars. BMW talks a big game about innovation, but they are getting their asses handed to them by GM, Nissan, and Tesla. - Logicexe, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1Well it's good to know that it's further along than I thought. Still doesn't address all my concerns though. My issue is how they would handle this sort of thing going mainstream. I agree that it would be easy to setup if all car manufacturers each released one model built around one type of battery. The problem I see is when companies like BMW try this with some of their larger luxury sedans. If the market stays with small cars it would be no problem. Honda can make an EV Fit, Toyota can make an EV Yaris, Hyundai has the Accent, all these cars could be built around the same basic battery. I'm using subcompact cars as an example, but it could just as easily be other types of cars with other needs. You're not going to be able to use the same battery you use in a Honda Fit in a BMW 7 series, an SUV or a Sports car just like you wouldn't put a small 4 cylinder ICE in each of them. How many different models of these batteries are swap stations going to have to carry?
I don't see it going much further than small subcompacts. Don't get me wrong, I'd probably buy one in a heartbeat and I think it's a great idea but I don't think it'll change the entire market. - Taiyoryu, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1Is there a reason BMW opted for a 7- or 8-speed transmission instead of a real CVT? I'm guessing performance, space, weight, and/or cost. Marketing it as a CVT doesn't make it one.
- Logicexe, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1I can't view that video right now however I did browse through Better Place's website. The website offers up an example of how Tokyo is working towards implementing their system for cabs. That's an absolutely great example of what I was talking about when I said "it can work in some places, I just doubt it'll ever be mainstream." This is where this technology shines. All the cars are going to be the same model and use exactly the same batteries. There are no worries about battery memory since they're all owned and operated by the same company. It's a great implementation of this idea.
What I don't think will work, or at least have doubts about it being widely accepted is a universal system where everyone's car uses one of these. For one thing, how many of the battery exchange companies are there going to be? One for every car manufacturer? Are Honda, Toyota and Volkswagon going to use company X while Mazda, Suzuki, Ford and GM use company Y? Are the batteries going to be interchangeable between different makes? Models? Years? A subcompact is going to need a different battery than a luxury sedan or an SUV. All I see happening is a giant cluster ***** where no one knows where the ***** they can exchange their battery when they're out of town (where they would need it most). Then you've got the problem of battery memory. Would you want to exchange you're almost new battery for something that might have tens of thousands of miles on it?
Gas stations work because you don't have to worry about whether your tank and nozzle are compatible with the gas station. - danieldantastic, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1There's two ways to deal with the battery problem. Until now, everyone has dealt with it as a technical issue. The other way is to look at it from a business model perspective. Better Place is looking at it from a business model perspective and are launching a battery-swap program in six countries:
http://www.betterplace.com/
The business model borrows from propane tank swaps and subsidized mobile phones. It's a very cool solution to what is a cripplingly stupid problem: the way we perceive what we should own and how we should pay for it. This short TED video is the best thinking I've seen in transportation:
http://www.ted.com/talks/shai_agassi_on_electric_c ... - Amazetbm, on 09/20/2009, -0/+1I'm with ya on that one.
- Majora26, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1but i love the complexity!!
- carlosos, on 09/15/2009, -0/+1I wonder what the price difference will be. I know that the last 10 years that the German manufactures have tested hybrid engines but they always said that they won't release it until it can compete with diesel engines for price and performance.
- danieldantastic, on 09/14/2009, -0/+1The video has the answers to almost all of your questions. It will be a standard socket within the Better Place system, and Renault-Nissan has committed to I think 9 different models. They are mostly adopting a cell-phone business model where you buy the car at a subsidized rate and Better Place sells you miles in the form of electric charging stations in parking lots and battery swap stations for longer trips.
By removing battery maintenance/ownership from the model, you solve pretty much every technological hurdle to going entirely electric. Even at todays prices for NiCad batteries powered by today's solar panels, the cost will be much less than gasoline. Gas is only going to be more expensive, and battery and solar panel technology is only going to get cheaper. Like with cellular technology, there is going to be some hurdles with interoperability to overcome. I'd like to see some IEEE-style standards emerge very, very quickly so the same car manufacturers could be compatible with the different Better Place-style services. The Tesla Model S has a removable battery system, but I doubt it is compatible with Better Place's automated swap systems.
I met the Better Place CEO at the World Business Summit on Climate Change in Copenhagen in the Spring. The dude is on top of his *****. -
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