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85 Comments
- benologist, on 12/04/2008, -1/+15.... why? It'll cost 3x as much and you'll need a proprietry cable to charge it.
- patpl22391, on 12/04/2008, -1/+12Let them go bankrupt, and they will reorganize and renegotiate the contracts. Why should America lose? Enough with the bailouts!
- mbraynard, on 12/04/2008, -0/+10Translation: I don't realize that Ford and GM are two different companies.
- inactive, on 12/04/2008, -7/+17"The criticism from Congress about jet travel and big executive paychecks hit home, Mr. Mulally said during a telephone interview from the road, as he was traveling through the state of Ohio.
“Its all part of a learning experience for me,” he said. “I think it’s really important that I drive to Washington to show that Ford gets what Congress is saying.”"
Translation: G.M has realised it needs to merely avoid the APPEARANCE of greed and mismanagement.
I wouldn't go rushing to lick GM's ass over this one. - Kishoba, on 12/04/2008, -5/+14Many of you may not realize, but this would not be the first time the "Big 3" have been or will be bailed out. If assure you that this will not change anything. Therefore, write to your senators and congressmen and make them understand that any more of these bailouts are unacceptable and no business is to big to fail.
- MarineDigg80, on 12/03/2008, -3/+12Well I am glad they are taking it seriously now and not just waltzing in with their hands out expecting whatever they want to just be handed to them.
Still sad when the greatest country in the world has to bail out its own businesses though. - MakanGuru, on 12/04/2008, -3/+11The US auto industry has been in trouble for many years due to piss poor leadership and total mismanagement. The credit crisis just led to the end game sooner rather then later. As it stands, GM and Chrysler products have no sense of direction or identity outside of the US. Instead of being innovators and industry leaders, they have become followers and are consistently playing catch up to the Japanese and European auto industry, Hell, even build quality in American cars are now in general the worst of all the major auto manufacturers.
Executive pay cuts are just the first damn step they need to take IMO. All 3 companies NEED to make some major corp + leadership restructuring. In fact, Chrysler should just merge with one of them. - tkilgore04, on 12/04/2008, -1/+8Maybe they should quit reaching with outstretched hands from their seats in a corporate plane. I know the cost of these planes is a fraction of their overall budget but tell that to the guy who lost his job in Detroit. If nothing else, it just looks bad.
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 12/04/2008, -0/+6GM isn't Ford...
- teemingvoid, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5Pax = Peace in Latin. The last generation to see a substantial "Pax Americana" were born before WWI
- spookyttws, on 12/04/2008, -3/+8God I hate socialism. Now that that's out of the way let's socialize our companies losses and allow them to continue to privatize their profits! They're a COMPANY they either innovate and push forward and succeed or they make ***** cars and fall behind. As much as I want to keep all of those jobs, I don't see how this makes any sense. My favorite restaurant is going to close their doors if something drastic doesn't happen soon, sure only about 20-30 jobs will be lost, but why can't they get a bailout? I say all or nothing.
- Hillsfar, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5GM market cap is now $3 billion. If Warren Buffet wouldn't buy it with 5% of his net worth, why should the government give GM $16 billion?!?
- xdre, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5You mean Chrysler's loan back in '79? The one they *repaid*, and early at that?
- Target91, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5Why are so many people confusing Ford and GM?
- DatVillain83, on 12/04/2008, -1/+5Nobody worry, the Chevy Volt is the solution. Everyone will get their money back!
- Whyso, on 12/04/2008, -2/+6In the real world SHAREHOLDERS TAKE PROFITS and PAY FOR MISTAKES.
Leave it to the natural order of things.....let the shareholders pay the price....and let the others take up the difference in the marketplace.
The government is better off paying the employees to stay home and find new industries to work in/for, rather than letting "old and tired mentality" companies keep going.
Only that sort of restructure can do any sort of good to everyone and the taxpayer in general. - mbraynard, on 12/04/2008, -0/+4At the end of the day, the debt America owes other nations is more the other nation's problem than America's problem.
Imagine if the US simply couldn't - or refused to pay foreign debtors.
Yes, mass dumping of the dollar would hurt America in the short term because the nation would have to stop deficit spending and become more self-reliant - and this is one of the only nations that really is capable of it (especially when you factor in the NAFTA partners).
However, this would cripple the rest of the world for generations. They've been sending goods and services here for decades in exchange for what is now worthless paper or investments that are based here.
As China is our largest debt holder, it is now the most vulnerable to American economic and military failure. - SpeedSteamBoat, on 12/04/2008, -0/+4As far as I know, they are all driving production vehicles to Washington.
You think they would trust their lives with a concept vehicle just to show off?
Or didn't you realize that GM, Ford, and Chrysler all produced hybrid vehicles? - Olfster, on 12/04/2008, -4/+7Bankruptcy is the answer. Just as you or I have to go through. They should be treated no different than the rest of us hard working, tax paying, individuals on the street are treated, union or not. The last time I met an honest car dealership I was the king of Egypt.
- nutsackninja, on 12/04/2008, -0/+3I would say your incorrect when you add up all the pension and health care costs the UAW costs are almost double
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/07/uaw-pricing-th ... - linagee, on 12/04/2008, -1/+4Monty Python: "I'm not dead yet"
- L0NER, on 12/04/2008, -6/+9Let them slowly die and be replaced with silicon valley car companies. I can't wait to drive an iCar.
- Olfster, on 12/04/2008, -2/+5"..a learning experience..." We are expected to hand over BILLIONS of tax payer money to someone that needs a "learning experience?" No thanks. Send them to bankruptcy court where they belong.
- inactive, on 12/04/2008, -1/+3Dont bother, all the tweens on digg jerk off over Hondas and Toyotas because they all have a huge boner for the Fast and the Furious.
GM and Ford have both come a long way, anyone who knows anything about cars knows they make quality cars now. Let the little diggiots overpay for a Honda or Toyota with less features, if they are dumb enough to get suckered in by marketing thats on them.
Right now Ford and GMs issues center around the Union keeping wages to high for them to compete with the non-union shops of the over seas car makers. - Slacker1031, on 12/04/2008, -1/+3"sorry guys, times are tough, we'll only be giving 5 million dollar bonuses to the head execs instead of 10 million dollar bonuses this year."
"aww..." - SpeedSteamBoat, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2It's certainly a big step in the right direction.
Like it or not, the Volt isn't inherently bad just because it's being produced by GM. You could at least give a little credit where it's due. - linagee, on 12/04/2008, -1/+3If they can do it cheaper than we can, why should we be propping up a failing company?
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 12/04/2008, -2/+4Uh, most of that money will end up in the pockets of employees and most of the rest will end up in other parts of the economy through operations spending. I fail to see that's robbing anyone of anything.
By the way, don't get ahead of yourself. We're not in a depression yet. I can understand why you are trying to get comfortable with that idea since letting our auto industry fail in a severe recession would be a huge step in that direction. That's fine, I mean, you need to stand by what you believe in, and if it's an American depression than why mince words about what you mean you state you want to let the American auto industry fail? I, on the other, believe we should at least TRY to avoid a depression, and a big part of that effort is keeping the big 3 afloat at the very least for a little while (to avoid a depression) and hopefully on into profitability and competitiveness. - Swivelstick, on 12/04/2008, -1/+3That isn't meant to fool congress just the general population.
- mousky, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2Congress needs to focus on cutting back spending not loaning money to GM, Ford or Chrysler.
- gothicform, on 12/04/2008, -4/+6Only their salaries are going to be one dollar a year... there will of course be other forms of executive compensation retained. This isn't like those Japanese businessmen you see who do literally give up their share options and benefits too...
- masaono777, on 12/04/2008, -1/+3American people are looking down their manufacturing industry in this 3-4 decades.
They lose steel companies, chemical companies and electiric parts companies.
In the end, they lose big car companies.
Big 3 can't survive without storng steel, chemical, electronic suppliers.
That's another reason why they are in crisis.
Amecia has lost manufacturing industry except miritary,energy,healthcare,IT. - tkilgore04, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2In the first sentence.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7889a9ec-c0db-11dd-b0a8- ...
As far as trusting their lives in concept vehicles, I'm sure flying a corporate plane is far more dangerous. And yes I realize the "big 3" produce hybrids, but are their CEOs aware of this? - SpeedSteamBoat, on 12/04/2008, -1/+3General Motors will not make it out of bankruptcy. No one but no one would buy a car from a bankrupt company.
If you let these companies go bankrupt it will not by a simple "getting back on their feet." Look up what bankruptcy actually means. It's not a flowery place full of free money and time to ponder what went wrong and fix it carefully as some seem to think. Corporate bankruptcy is a LITTLE different from private bankruptcy, and it should go without saying it impacts the economy in a much different and larger way.
Mark my words. If we let the big three go bankrupt it will be the end of the American auto industry. You say good? Consider that industry produces a sizable percentage of the GDP of our entire country. Consider the 1million+ jobs that would disappear or otherwise be affected by the sudden disappearance of this huge industry.
It seems to me no one here really understands the scope of this situation. You're all too caught up in your high talk about corporate welfare, and too busy patting each other on the back for having all the answers to see the big picture.
If you live in the United States and you believe the collapse of the American auto industry won't affect you, you're dead wrong. - Zomgondo, on 12/04/2008, -2/+4Eh... the French nationalized Renault, retooled it into a profitable company, and sold it back to private investors and got the taxpayer's money back. By doing so they averted what could've been another French Revolution, which I guarantee nobody here wants to go through.
We can do the same with GM - we can say here's the cash, here's our conditions, once you're profitable we'll get our money back and cut you loose. Capitalism works well overall, but when it doesn't, TEMPORARY socialism ftw... it's a lot better than finding yourself on the guillotine. - SpeedSteamBoat, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2You don't understand how stock options work.
- asgardshill, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2So the Big Three auto execs are driving their company's vehicles instead of taking the Lear to Washington to beg for bailout money this time. I hope they at least had the common sense to choose an SUV for the trip - its a little slice of hell to squeeze your manservant, valet, butler, accountant, publicist, personal attorney, and executive secretary into a Ford Focus.
- Olfster, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1Regardless of whether I understand all ESO configurations, if allowed to go into bankruptcy, as they should, the ESOs, essentially contracts, will be looked at as part of the proceedings. I don't think that much will be done if they are just handed bail out money from congress. Just look at the TARP oversight. These companies need to go bankrupt.
- spookyttws, on 12/08/2008, -0/+1We are literally socializing their loses and allowing them to keep the profits. I seriously doubt we'll actually see most of the cash we're lending them. If a small business was failing and they asked for a couple hundred thousand to 'help' them survive do you think anyone would allow 100k loan to a business going bankrupt, with little reason to think they could pay it back?
- mousky, on 12/06/2008, -0/+1Nutsackninja: Let's compare apples with apples not apples with legacy costs with apples with no legacy costs. Those figures for GM, Ford and Chrysler include legacy costs for pension and health care - which the Big 3 decided to underfund on the basis that future profit would be used to fund them.
Over the next 10 years plenty of people will be retiring from Toyota and Honda. Let's compare costs then. - sivsta, on 12/04/2008, -1/+2And I think Somalia will outproduce China by 2012. Does that mean it's going to happen? Hell no.
Competitive with Toyota by 2012 my ass. - SpeedSteamBoat, on 12/05/2008, -0/+1@mousky
"Do you honestly believe that if GM, Chrysler and Ford all go bankrupt that no one will come in buy up the remains?"
Of course some one will buy up the remains, but that won't save us from a depression, will it?
Also, those companies are not American. That really does matter.
@Treoinmypocket:
I'm not arguing that a bankruptcy wouldn't be a better solution normally. The trouble is that a bankruptcy right now would be disastrous for the economy as a whole, and even worse for the American auto industry in particular.
If these companies were going bankrupt three years ago then yes, they should have been left to go bankrupt. Instead they are going bankrupt in the midst and because of a huge credit crisis that is out of their hands and affects everyone. You need to consider the current situation and how much bigger an impact their bankruptcy will have right now than it would normally.
What's more, you seem to repeat this meme, this idea that they aren't already changing how the do business. That's simply wrong. Ford and GM in particular have been working full speed to slim line their companies and become more competitive. They are just beginning to see the rewards of these efforts (Ford more so because it is further along). So I don't believe your claims that "It will only get worse." I believe that it is already getting better and the proof of that is everyone. They are selling off or retiring superfluous or costly brands. They are producing more fuel efficient cars and investing heavily into Hybrid, FlexFuel, and electric car technologies. It will only get worse if they have to file for bankruptcy and lose the rest of their remaining customers. Giving them a reprieve from bankruptcy is almost certainly in the best interest of these companies, and without a doubt in the best interest of the American economy at this moment. - mousky, on 12/04/2008, -1/+2The end of the American auto industry? What about Toyota, Honda, BMW, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz, Hyundai, etc? Are they all leaving the US as well? The US auto industry may shrink, but given how much over-capacity there is, shrinking is a good thing.
Do you honestly believe that if GM, Chrysler and Ford all go bankrupt that no one will come in buy up the remains? - BridgeBurner, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1You do realize that the UAW is digging into the companies for more than wages like nutsackninja says? For instance, did you know that the auto companies are obligated to provide unemployment wages at 95% of their normal wage for employees that they lay-off?
- Konrad9, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1I am so sick of this bull ***** people keep putting out.
If these companies die our economy goes in to a REAL depression. Honda, Toyota, VW, cannot simply just pick up the big 3's sales and walk on. Fisker and Tesla and those silicon cars cannot simply take up the big 3's sales and wlak on.
These companies are willing to make concessions and change their business practices. We have given trillions of dollars to the banks that keep on doing the ***** that got us in to this mess.
You want this to get fixed? Take your anger out on the people who deserve it, the BANKS. - reeds1999, on 12/04/2008, -1/+2"Still, the company said it would have been able to survive on its own if not for the continued deterioration of the United States vehicle market, because of the weakening economy and tight credit, which has made it difficult for consumers who do wander into dealerships to get loans.
“The company would not require government assistance were it not for the drastic collapse of the U.S. economy which has devastated the company’s current revenues and liquidity,” G.M. said."
And just how is handing them billions of dollars going to change this scene????? - L0NER, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1I said SLOWLY die, more like a phase out instead of a sudden shock
- inactive, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1GM's CEO took a Hybrid Malibu
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 12/04/2008, -1/+2That's not how bankruptcy works in a corporate setting. Pelosi is right. Bankruptcy isn't an option. Thank God our politicians know better than you idiots.
- firebirdx01, on 12/05/2008, -0/+1They should definitely axe Saturn and Pontiac and apologize for the Aztec while they're at it.
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