What is Digg?27 Comments
- PabloMac, on 11/14/2008, -0/+10Toyota and Honda moved here and you don't hear them begging for money. As a matter of fact, they could probably bail out GM by themselves.
Thank you, unions. - inactive, on 11/14/2008, -1/+11
The UAW has soaked the American consumer and American car makers for decades. I remember vividly the year they asked for veterinary benefits for their pets because they already had everything else they could conceivably demand. Then there was the time the company negotiators asked Walter Reuther to list the days his boys were willing to work since it appeared there would be fewer to discuss. Not to mention in the mid 70s, when the nation was in the midst of the first OPEC blackmail, the UAW individuals laid off headed to the Gulf beaches because they were making more on government unemployment and guaranteed payments from the industry than they made when they were actually on the assembly lines. I truly don't want to see us lose even more manufacturing capacity, but how, between rapacious unions and the already socialist restrictions on business, can industry survive in this nation ‽ ‽ ‽ Our economy is going right down the drain along with this leftist crap which is being shoveled onto it. - iMattK, on 11/14/2008, -0/+9That's right, PabloMac. They had the foresight to build the majority of their plants away from union territory, choosing business friendly sites in the south where they could get a fresh start. They still pay good wages, have excellent working conditions, and other than the Toyota Tundra, are vehicles Americans willingly embrace.
- badqat, on 11/14/2008, -1/+10Both GM and Ford have moved much production south over the years - including to Mexico. The UAW has a stranglehold on the big three, and is, for the most part, responsible for the current state of affairs.
It isn't just "work rules" that are an issue - it's massive pensions and massive healthcare expenditures.
As far as the feds stepping in...loan guarantees are the extent of what I'd be willing to support. - mareln72, on 11/14/2008, -0/+7Get loans from banks that want to improve their bottom line .
Reorganize get rid of corrupt bosses . Build smaller cars .
Then when they are safe and turning a profit. Pay back loans with interest.
Move to a right to work state .
Texas would love to have them . - iMattK, on 11/14/2008, -0/+7I'm of the same mind, badqat. Give them loans or back private loans, but nothing more. Pensions and health care have certainly taken their toll too, putting the Big Three at a massive disadvantage to the competition.
- iMattK, on 11/14/2008, -0/+7The US auto industry is in a mess, particularly the unionized workforce of General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Federal assistance won't be coming under the Bush Administration and it may be too late for the Obama Administration to do something about it.
One solution would be for the Big Three to transfer production elsewhere, to countries where work rules aren't as stringent. For GM, that solution could be found in China where it already makes more than one million vehicles annually.
Oddly, the People's Republic of China may offer the best hope for the ailing auto industry. - iMattK, on 11/14/2008, -0/+6Well said, Ike. And very accurate too.
What we've allowed unions to do in this country is deplorable. At one time I would have made a case for unions, to protect workers, but their protection has turned into extortion of the automakers and the vast majority of American businesses.
Honestly, I don't want to see American production head to China (a socialist country that represses its people, pollutes it land, and has designs far beyond its area of influence) but with little choice, the companies may have to dissolve much of their American manufacturing base in a bid to survive.
I'm not absolving company management completely, especially leaders of a generation or two ago who complied with union demands. I wouldn't want to be in CEO Rick Wagoner's shoes either. - iMattK, on 11/14/2008, -0/+5Moving plants would make sense only if union involvement was off the table. Right now, the UAW and CAW have a stranglehold on General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, with little relief coming this side of bankruptcy protection.
- seeingright, on 11/14/2008, -0/+4I live in China right now.. GM sells lots of Buick's and Chevrolet's here.. very popular! Ford does quite well too. It is too bad. I used to work for Chevrolet in the US. The unions and environmental restrictions have killed the American auto makers off with greed and BS.. now before you say China is screwed up, I will have to agree, but they make money here so you can't blame ANOTHER company wanting to leave the USA because of a hostile business environment.. with the Obama administration coming on board it is is going to get worse. You better tighten your belts.. taxation, redistribution of wealth are coming.. that is if they can find any wealth to distribute.. oh, I forgot, the Democrats will just print the money.. hell, Obama has trillions to spend if he and the Democrats are just going to hand out funny money..
- iMattK, on 11/14/2008, -0/+4I certainly don't blame General Motors if they choose to redeploy most of their U.S. production to China. And, I don't blame the Chinese with welcoming the industry with open arms.
While attending the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) in Detroit earlier this year, I heard one of the executives employed by a Chinese automaker (whose cars were on display there) urge the U.S. to do that very thing: allow China to build our cars. Sounded crazy (and almost scary) at the time, but I wonder if it could some day come to pass. - iMattK, on 11/14/2008, -0/+3I think GM would be better off failing, at least domestically. They could restructure, scale back their US operations, dump excess brands (keep Cadillac and Chevrolet), trash the unions, and come out better for it. Sixty percent or more of GM's vehicles are sold overseas anyway.
- inactive, on 11/14/2008, -1/+4This is not about saving GM but about saving the Unions, which heavily backed Obama.
If GM goes, so do all those Union contracts, Union pensions, Union members... a huge pool the Democrats use to fund their campaigns.
In this light, I say let GM fail. Companies come, companies go. That's business, and it has no brother. Or brotha, as the case may be. - inactive, on 11/14/2008, -0/+3The USS Titanic Nationals going vertical,
live boats for NONE !!
Drown all you corrupt, fraudulent lying thieves !
I'll stop from saying what I really think ! - mareln72, on 11/14/2008, -0/+3True but can't we get rid of them? They really do more harm than good.
- seeingright, on 11/15/2008, -0/+2exactly.. DUMP the unions and the Auto industry might survive.. then get rid of government intervention and this enviromental Green *****.. is a joke.. scientists are now saying we may be looking at another ICE AGE because we don't have enough carbon dixoide in the atmosphere.. but Noooo, we have to GO Green and get rid of even more carbon.. Al Gore and company, what do you expect!
- iMattK, on 11/14/2008, -0/+2You were being quite clear to me!
- PabloMac, on 11/15/2008, -0/+2Hmmm…I see at least 8 or 10 Tundras a day.
- seeingright, on 11/15/2008, -0/+2Amen brother.. I agree with you all the way.. a restructuring under the protection of bankruptcy laws would really help GM.
http://seeingright.com - these3remain, on 11/15/2008, -0/+2Sure, move it to China. No unions AND lower taxes. But Obamunist owes the UAW big time - so Pelosi will push to bail them out. Interestingly enough it is the unions AND EPA regulations that have the US auto industry in the tank - both favorite liberal causes. Let'em tank, restructure and relocate to good ole SC (like BMW) where people want to work and aren't unionized.
- these3remain, on 11/15/2008, -0/+2Amen. Let'em tank and restructure. For a lot of reasons.
- cyberdork, on 11/15/2008, -0/+1Oh really? Germany has an unemployment quote of 7.2%. I currently live and work in the Netherlands, it has an unemployment quote of 2.5%, which is basically FULL EMPLOYMENT!
For the Eurozone it's 7.5% and for all the EU 7.0%. The US has around 6.1% - chibichibie, on 11/14/2008, -1/+2if only they had stopped making such HUGE cars....
- cyberdork, on 11/15/2008, -0/+1" to countries where work rules aren't as stringent."
You mean where they over cheap slave labor and have zero safety rules and environmental regulations?
And you guys should stop whining. Here in Germany work rules are MUCH more 'stringent' than in the US and German automakers are doing just OK and are not going bankrupt (even with the current economic crisis).
Why do you only blame the workers and the government, but not the management? - ImFrakkinIt, on 11/19/2008, -0/+0If GM funds Unions and Unions fund Democrats, then why do all Republicans drive huge domestic SUVs or trucks?
- cyberdork, on 11/15/2008, -1/+1"... it's massive pensions and massive healthcare expenditures. "
So how come foreign automakers are still around when they suffer from much higher pension, healthcare costs and government regulations? You guys should learn to look further than the edge of your plate! - seeingright, on 11/15/2008, -1/+1>> Why do you only blame the workers and the government, but not the management?
Because the unions and government in the USA are screwed up.. give me a break, Europe has a 10 to 12% unemployment rate right now..
Here's another European trying to tell the USA how to conduct our business.. worry about your own socialistic problems first before you start in on the rest of the world.. take your wrench and make sure it is calibrated properly.. that's what the Germans are best known for...
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