What is Digg?106 Comments
- daonlyfreez, on 06/29/2008, -14/+46There is nothing wrong with making honest money, even if the "evil" oil companies are doing it.
Problems arise however when:
- Companies grow so big that they have more money (and therefore power) that nation states have
- Companies abuse this power to: evade taxes, buy "leadership" to promote their agenda, or even hire private armies to kill everybody that stands in the way of their "holy profit motive"
- Companies grow so strong that they take a blackmailing stranglehold on government/legality and even morality (you need our product, your assets need to be adjusted to use our product, if you refuse we will make your lives miserable, we'll stifle any alternatives that might threaten our power on the market)
Now take an honest look at what these huge oil-companies do, and - more importantly, what they don't do:
- They own a commodity that is made to be so essential to our society (it is not, there are plenty alternatives around), that they can mold society around their "holy profit motive"
- They manipulate society into thinking they are acting responsible (just look at the explosion of "greenwashing" marketing and advertising, if you believe them, they are the best thing that could happen to us and the earth since sliced-bread), but if you look at the numbers, they only invest a percentage on acting responsible, and only because they "have to", not because they care
Capitalism? Two thumbs up!
Unbridled/irresponsible capitalism? Big no-no!
Totally crooked corporatism? I'd say: bring them down.
Communism? Same-same as corporatism
Socialism? Why should I have to give away my care for others to others? Governments and NPO's are not exactly good at it.
So, don't worry, I'm not a "nutty liburul commy".
This article is deliberately taking some points, conveniently forgetting others, mixes it with some good looking statistics, and tries to make you feel "it's all good, nothing to see here, just move along" - davidhallstrom, on 06/29/2008, -6/+28Interesting informative article.
- xfactor72315, on 06/28/2008, -6/+27hmmm. food for thought
- DerangedPenguin, on 06/29/2008, -10/+30"The federal and state governments make a lot more money off of gasoline taxes each year than the total profits of all the oil companies combined."
This is why I find it humorous in a perverted sort of way when Madam Pelosi and the Fascist-Liberals talk about making doing something about the high cost of gasoline. Like "The Madam of The House" would do anything to kill off the cash cow. Oh yeah lower Federal Taxes on gasoline, and then levy a tax on Big Oil Profits. No corporation pays taxes, they simply pass it on to the customer. Want to do something about the high cost of gasoline, fire your legislators, demand that their replacements revoke the life time Medical and Retirement benefits, the legislators have granted themselves. - wildfire, on 06/29/2008, -3/+22Anyone willing to donate me some change to liquefy politicians into gasoline?
- inactive, on 06/29/2008, -3/+18The answer is simple. If people really want cheap gas again, we take government out of the equation. Period.
- DerangedPenguin, on 06/29/2008, -1/+11Problem is finding / producing H2 in a free state that can be used as a fuel. Breaking H2O down from water via electrolysis takes a lot more energy. Actually Hydrocarbon fuels are Hydrogen based with a few Carbon atoms attached.
I have heard that someone is working on using bacterial agents that can for lack of a better word "fart" Hydrogen gas. Hydrogen is an attractive fuel, lot of bang for the liter / Gallon. Just think you can get a bumper sticker that says "Fueled by slime farts"
Of course Hydrogen fuel still runs into the below stated problem. Politicians don't want to kill off their Petroleum fed cash cow, hence the number of articles on digg about solar power projects being put on hold by the U.S, government. - samard2002, on 06/29/2008, -5/+14Agreed. Walmart only makes a 3% profit margin. I suppose they should be made saints. The author says in the opening "the actual dollar amount of profits is not as relevant as the ratio of profit to expense, which includes the costs of research and development as well as the ordinary costs of doing business."
I could not disagree more. First off, how does profit margin include expenses, but dollar amounts don't? And the issue IS the amount made. Exxon Mobil made $40 billion in yearly profits according to the Fortune 500 list: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/ ...
How much is that? That means that after all their enormous executive salaries, lobbying and creative accounting -- they still had more than forty billion dollars left. That means they made more PROFIT than the raw REVENUE of the following companies:
Coca-Cola
PepsiCo (which includes all their restaurants like KFC and Taco Bell)
Sprint/Nextel
Motorla
Cisco
American Express
Delta Airlines
Apple
Anheuser-Busch
Google
Viacom
and EVERY other company but the top 65.
Once again, they make more in PROFIT than those companies do in REVENUE. And they do it every year. This year while making that enormous amount of money, they are still fighting to not pay the damages from the Exxon Valdez oil spill which happened in 1989. An accident that happened almost twenty years ago, did incalculable damage and was entirely their fault.
So please, dear author, explain to me again what evil means. - eurodele, on 06/29/2008, -1/+9Here's the deal. Big Oil isn't making its windfall profits because of the free market. It's making them because the central banks, mainly the US Federal Reserve, have printed up a lot of free money for themselves and their friends, who run other banks and institutional investment funds, and this money has been poured into the commodities market, thus creating "artificial demand" that has absolutely nothing to do with how free markets are actually supposed to function.
In other words, the commodities market is not "free"; it's being massively manipulated by the central banks, which (by the way) own, via the usual run of front companies, shell corporations, blind trusts, and other anonymity-preserving devices, controlling interests in several if not all of the major oil companies.
See how the scam works? Essentially, the banks are picking everybody's pockets through not only interest and inflation, but price manipulation, which is just what they were designed to do from Jump Street. Time to wake up.
Down with the central banks. Down with the Federal Reserve. - ChAnG3tH3wOrLd, on 06/28/2008, -8/+15wow. quite interesting point of view.
- pakakapa, on 06/29/2008, -2/+9if you want free market, get your lobbyists the ***** out of the government
- carpespasm, on 06/29/2008, -1/+7The fact that they're not screwing us per dollar as hard as pharmaceutical companies doesn't mean they're not still making an enormous windfall profit or that they're not making money hand over fist from a wartime economy. I'm all for the spread of information but this chart alone needs to be put in the context of total profit made. You can afford to pull in a smaller profit margin when your consumer base is as enormous as the oil industry's is. People don't buy Dymatap or NyQuil by the gallon.
- Disillusion, on 06/29/2008, -2/+8I'd like to see this with updated data. In 2005, gas prices weren't nearly as bad as they are now.
- atmenterprises, on 06/29/2008, -7/+12I'm glad this info is finally being circulated.
- Mononuclear, on 06/29/2008, -0/+5Can you read? He is writing in English, look into it. He is disagreeing with the article that percentage matters and dollar amount doesn't.
- elleigh2, on 06/29/2008, -0/+5Oil fuels the world and is still the best fuel! The oil companies are providing us with the commodity that the world wants! If they are allowed to go get the fuel that is in abundance all over the world, the world would "work" and keep on keeping on! Free Market, everyone! They are providing a service they should be free to provide it as long as we want it! They are NOT in the business of alternatives. Let the free market work and, if there are viable alternatives, the free market will provide them. If they truly are "better" then they will thrive! Gov't should stay out of it! It is the "FREE MARKET" stupid!
DIGG! - dha07030, on 06/29/2008, -3/+8Who said the other industries where good they all suck one way or another.
- StingingNettle, on 06/29/2008, -3/+8They did conspire to buy out and tare up all street cars, in the end they went to court and were found guilty and fined $1
but hey, a $1 was worth a lot more back in those days. - inactive, on 06/29/2008, -1/+6I ask the same question to leftists, if America were truly fascist we would have conquered all of the middle east, took their oil and bombed Europe for disagreeing with us.
- oldhick, on 06/29/2008, -0/+5great, then we can hear about water shortages...
- zebraz, on 06/29/2008, -0/+4If it's so great how come no one is using it ?
- camelseye, on 06/29/2008, -5/+9Hmmm. So like the drug addict we are all dependent on our supplier...or need an alternative. I was recently talking with a friend of mine who works for Scottish Power in the UK, he said they are developing the utilization of hydrogen-based energy which is much cheaper.
- dood, on 06/29/2008, -0/+4For the non-believers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_street ... - bhattsan, on 06/29/2008, -1/+5This reminds me of something I heard yesterday on the radio.. European government duties/taxes make up 60% of the price of oil!
- davbmn68, on 06/29/2008, -0/+4Hate to let you in on a dirty little secret...If you went to Hydrogen powered vehicles tomorrow, oil would be your main source of cheap hydrogen. Oil companies make ALOT of hydrogen and they do it cheaply. So going hydrogen will be good for the environment but it will not cut oil companies out.
- inactive, on 06/29/2008, -0/+4Percentage means ***** when taken out of context. samard2002 Just gave a very well constructed Context to take that Percentage with.
- mlmurray, on 06/29/2008, -0/+3If you want lobbyists out of government, get government out of our business!
- beloitpiper, on 06/29/2008, -0/+3Scotland is also a leader in tidal power. Amazing stuff.
- mauso, on 06/29/2008, -4/+7There is nothing evil about profit.
samard2002 is an idiot. - rivalius13, on 06/29/2008, -3/+6The evil companies are making razor thin profits on retail gas. Aren't Exxon leaving the retail market because of the tiny profits?
- inactive, on 06/29/2008, -0/+3Oil companies deliver us tons of oil and gas every year and even due to the recent price increases caused by the monetary inflation caused by the Federal Reserve and the government threatening war with Iran, gas is still cheaper than bottle water.
- dcmusicfusion, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2Your data is from 2005.
The oil companies have spent TONS of money on lobbying to
a) shift us toward dependence
b) move us away from specific alternatives like industrial hemp.
c) have definiatly exploited to current situation--including food prices exploding
to the point of violence-- despite the fact we subsidized their oil flows with our military.
Big pharma sucks too. Thanks.... - LoudMusic, on 06/29/2008, -1/+3In short, it's not how much money you make, but how you earned it and what you do with it.
Tada! Paraphrase (: - greenfyre, on 06/29/2008, -1/+3Why is a 2008 analysis talking about data from a single quarter in 2005?
If that isn't picking your data to suit your analysis I don't know what is. - campingstick, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2Many pharmaceuticals spend double their R&D costs on sale and marketing.
- guyincognitoo, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2Coke, Pepsi, etc.. are not used by most everyone in the world on a daily basis. When oil is used that much, of course they will make a large profit. But because it used that much their expenses will also be that big. Hence why percentage is used.
- jgtg32a, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2I ***** love swiss cheese
- zombies187, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2MMM...yeah, swiss cheese IS fun to think about...
- myFriendDerrik, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2It isn't the ends that makes a capitalist evil, it's the means.
- samard2002, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2@mauso: I never said profit was evil. I was refuting the author's idea that oil companies don't make a lot of money, a statement he backed up with profit margin percentages rather than real numbers that would actually define "a lot of money".
The only time I used the word "evil" is when I mentioned that Exxon/Mobil clears $40 billion a year in profit and yet they have been fighting the court awarded penalties for devastating the Alaskan coast line for two decades.
Money does not make anyone evil, actions do. - blacklilyninja, on 06/29/2008, -1/+3i love the graph
from 2005 - robertstevenson, on 06/29/2008, -1/+3Dugg it. While working on alternatives. There's still plenty of oil. The transition to alternatives would be smooth if we let business run business for a change.
- SmartfulDodger, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2That's one of many, many assumptions the author made. This article may have been okay in an Econ 101 class, but I hope no one takes it any more seriously than that.
- dha07030, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2It vanished from the front page?
- bduddy, on 06/29/2008, -4/+6I understand not liking liberals, but come on, do you even know what Facism is?
- inboxnews, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2nice try socialist ;-(
- crazyjake, on 06/29/2008, -1/+3there are already better patents out there for more efficient hydrolysis!!
http://www.free-energy.ws/electrolysis.html -
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