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55 Comments
- fluidmatt, on 07/17/2009, -0/+9Shocking
- KillTheAcademy, on 07/17/2009, -2/+11almost as shocking as Marijuana saving the economy, Dammit let's stop talking and start doing.
- nomoreink, on 07/18/2009, -1/+9How long have they been "poised" now? 5 years?
- makotech222, on 07/18/2009, -1/+7wrong theres heavy demand, just not a lot of infrastructure and clean electricity
- arizona01, on 07/18/2009, -0/+6This news should recharge investor confidence.
- norman619, on 07/18/2009, -0/+4I'm curious as to how much of an impact these will have on the average person's monthly electric bill.
- EddiePotato, on 07/18/2009, -2/+5So I don't exist? Bummer.
- fury420, on 07/18/2009, -1/+4but thankfully, the efficiencies involved in the processes mean even if 100% of the electricity was generated from coal & fossil fuel generation you'd still be producing 30-40% less emissions than if you were powering your vehicle directly off fossil fuels.
keep in mind that emissions control & capture equipment is bulky, heavy, and traditionally requires more maintenance the more effective it is. It is much simpler & cost effective to increase the efficiency & reduce pollution from a coal or natural gas fed power generation station that powers hundreds of thousands of vehicles than it is to build emissions control & capture systems onto the exhaust of every single vehicle and then keep them in proper working order. - rheaume, on 07/18/2009, -0/+3Because they are really good at retrofitting Lotuses?
- esc27, on 07/18/2009, -0/+3Gasoline won't last for ever. Hybrids are only a mid term solution, and hydrogen is really just a different approach to batteries/energy storage (it costs energy, likely electricity to produce the hydrogen...) The ideal is to jump straight to direct electric storage as quickly as possible. So I'm looking forward to the era of good, reasonably priced electric cars. That is a full size sedan under $25,000 that can easily drive at 75 mph and travel for at least 300 miles per charge, and if companies like Tesla are successful, that just might be in the next 5 years.
- norman619, on 07/18/2009, -0/+3I doubt electric cars will be replacing normal cars anytime soon.
- EddiePotato, on 07/18/2009, -1/+4Let me break it down all simple for you, watermelonx. My desire to buy a fully electric car is interpreted by the market as "demand". So if demand for a fully electric car does not exist, I must not either -- and that's rough!
- norman619, on 07/18/2009, -0/+215 to 20 seems to be the eternal timeframe for most things.
- NICU, on 07/18/2009, -0/+2So why doesn't anyone wonder what will happen to the cost of electricity when cars start running on electricity? Power supply nation-wide is not increasing by much, if electric cars are popular they will cause much more demand for electricity. So we have higher demand than supply and prices go up. But now, it's not just the cost of running your car that increases, it's the cost of powering your house, your AC, your refrigerator, the cost of everything will increase.
- Ultomato, on 07/18/2009, -0/+2electric cars are more efficient than gasoline powered cars, even when powered by electricity generated from coal. up to 40% more efficient in fact.
not to mention u can charge them with clean energy(wind, solar etc).
also electric cars require virtually no maintenance, since the motor has only one moving part.
let me guess you dont want to lose ur coal plant job so you doing everything to badmouth electric cars and clean energy. - arizona01, on 07/18/2009, -0/+2Being so obvious insults my intelligence.
- roadk111, on 07/18/2009, -0/+2Auto makers need to take a lesson from the RC community. Brushless motors with Lithium Polymer batteries makes for lots of power, and a lightweight power plant. This combination has already replaced nitro-powered gas engines in the RC world.
- fury420, on 07/18/2009, -1/+3he's implying that he IS demand (would purchase an electric if available/feasible), as would many people. I would trade one of our families 3 vehicles for an electric vehicle in a heartbeat, like most families at least one of the vehicles is permanently on "short trips around town" duty and we'd have no difficulty using a fully electric vehicle, even with the state of today's commercially available & mass produced battery technology. A 150-200KM max range on the main battery pack would be perfect for our uses
the only people who are not interested in electric vehicles are the morons saying that there is "no demand" - Moralogic, on 07/18/2009, -0/+2Agreed, I dont care about the short trip thing, because there are work arounds to it. Hell, I will open my own battery swap and charge station if I have to.
- norman619, on 07/18/2009, -0/+2Actually I'd love to have one IF they work as advertised. I'd like to have one as my everyday driver and keep my gas powered SUV for long distance traveling and hauling things. The best of BOTH worlds and I would spend FAR less money on gas since I would not drive the gas vehicle nearly as much as I do now.
- S1ngular1ty1, on 07/18/2009, -1/+3Electric cars powered by the coal of the future! Much better than gasoline. /s
- S1ngular1ty1, on 07/18/2009, -1/+3You guys do funny math. A gallon of gas is about 34.7 kWh. At about $.15 / kWh for electricity it would cost:
The Tesla gets about 250 miles / 53 kWh = 4.716 miles / kWh
Average person drives 15,000 miles a year or so / 12 months = 1250 miles / month
1250 miles / month * 1 / (4.716 miles / kWh) * $.15 / kWh = ~ $40 / month
Which is a little over half of what I pay per month now driving a 6.0L V8 sedan. If you compare this with a more economical car the differences between electric and gasoline are a lot less as far as monthly cost for fuel. Keep in mind my car probably weighs twice as much as the Tesla so this isn't really a fair comparison. You will save some on the cost of fuel with an electric car but not as much as people think. This example is a sort of a best case scenario.
You would probably never make back the fuel cost savings over the life of the vehicle since it costs so much to start with. You could buy an equally performing gasoline vehicle for less and save money. - marx2k, on 07/18/2009, -0/+2Or hydroelectric, nuclear or solar.
- socoolisme, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1pun
- fury420, on 07/18/2009, -2/+3take what you currently spend on gasoline on a monthly basis and add between 1/6th to 1/10th of that figure onto your electric bill, depending on efficiency of the vehicle your replacing, local electricity/gasoline prices, and if you set your charger to charge at night rather than at peak usage times
- fury420, on 07/18/2009, -1/+2for whoever buried me, ok.. do your own research then.
the cost estimates i gave are based on the experiences of Tesla Roadster owners in California, as compared against a similar style/performancegasoline sportscar's mileage, and not factoring the purchase price or costs of ownership beyond gasoline/electricity used into it.
It seemed like the most honest comparison one could make at this point, considering the vehicles are already in production and in the hands of owners. It may not be the most useful comparison for the everyman, as the price point of 2seater convertible sportscars is far removed from what most people drive, but I'd expect energy usage rates to be comparable even when scaled down to non-performance vehicles, and I'm sure theres figures available for non-production/prototype EVs one could use if they wanted. - Bloodwine, on 07/18/2009, -1/+2The jolt will be about as strong as when you stick your tongue on a 9V battery.
Maybe, just maybe, it'll help years down the road when they are more affordable and people are ready to replace their current cars. - hoodedrobin, on 07/18/2009, -3/+40 - to - 60 in 3.7 seconds is not crap...
Neither is their sedan... - Ultomato, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1all this info was in the article, u might want to read the article for once instead of spreading bs
- S1ngular1ty1, on 07/18/2009, -1/+2Welcome to reality. It will be 10 years at least before there is wide spread adoption of fully electric cars. They only thing jolting the auto industry anytime soon would be hybrids.
- Samueul, on 07/18/2009, -0/+12010 the year of linux on the.... oh wait, wrong thread... dammit...
- Ultomato, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1FTA"Car makers are working with power utilities and others to define the standard for a planned 440-volt charger which would recharge Nissan's electric car to 80 percent capacity --good for 80 miles of driving -- in 26 minutes "
this pretty much solves the charge time considering it takes 10 minutes to get to the gas station, and about 5 minutes to fill up and the 10 minutes to get back home.
and this technology is only improving, so there can be quicker charge times and longer ranges. - arizona01, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1Grrrrrrr...
- marx2k, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1Holy *****! It can do 0-60 in 3.7 seconds??? *****, give them my money!
- inactive, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1@arizona01
lighten up - Ultomato, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1and let me get this strait, your saying electric cars are bad because they are somehow going to wipe out the human race?
- Ultomato, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1charging your car would take the same energy as your computer or LCD tv . also you could buy a solar panel if u have a house
- LokitheComplex, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1The electric car has won. Its just a matter of when.
The other option is the horse. - zebraz, on 07/19/2009, -0/+1RC cars weigh what ?
One pound max ?
When you scale them up to the size of a real car the Brushless motors with Lithium Polymer batteries will not work.
Scale is not linear in engineering. - Ultomato, on 07/18/2009, -0/+1"Second, you guys must not be economists, but you must realize that in our economy, our resources are limited, so the way we chose to use them to increase our quality of life is very important."
umm so instead of building more efficient cars, you want to build extremely expensive public transportation systems that span the whole US? you do know how big the US is right? where is the money going to come from to build and maintain the hundreds of thousand miles of speed rails? do you really think americans want to give up their freedom of having a personal car, living where they want, going where they want? sure stuff like bullet trains would be useful to get you across the US, but for every day travel, no public transportation today beats the car in the US, in terms of efficiency and cost. - nimadude, on 07/18/2009, -0/+0I thought Nissan was a Japanese car company? Arent these loans meant to help American companies?
- zebraz, on 07/19/2009, -2/+2Electric cars are stupid.
- mstan2190, on 07/18/2009, -3/+3When you know how the electric grid works electric cars become much less exciting. Renewable like wind and solar run whenever they can because wind mills and solar cells cost the same weather they are producing electricity or not. Nuclear usually runs at 100% because it has the highest initial cost of all types of power plants but it fuel cost are lower than fossil fuel plants. The remainder of the load is taken up by fossil fuels, mostly coal. So, when you plug your electric car into the grid and increase the load what happens is more coal gets dumped into a boiler somewhere and your car is still running on fossil fuels.
- fury420, on 07/18/2009, -1/+1I used $0.05/kWh as my electric rate, as that's what i've seen tesla owners quoting for nighttime off peak electric rates from PG&E in California. (note: not a Californian, so I haven't looked that closely into how available/feasible that is)
keep in mind $.15/kWh is the current cost of residential electricity with no adjustments made based on peak/offpeak demand. Many utilities that offer varying rates based on peak/non-peak usage offer between 50-65% savings when comparing daytime peak to nighttime-offpeak rates, which would bring the cost per kWh down a fair bit when one considers typical charging behavior.
between $2.70 and $8 per 240 miles seems quite reasonable, especially since even assuming a very good 35 mpg combined city/highway mileage for the comparison car would cost you $20 for the same 240 miles at $3/gallon, or aprox $30/240miles if looking at a more standard 25mpg combined city/highway mileage (what you'd expect from a lean sportscar)
I believe i said between 1/6th and 1/10th the cost depending on energy rates & replaced vehicle efficiency, which would work out to just under 1/10th of the cost of taking a 25mpg mileage vehicle 240 miles @ $3/gal, or just over 1/8th of the cost of a 35mpg vehicle when using an electricity rate of $0.05/kWh. If using a rate of $0.15/kWh my math gets slightly worse, although a comparison against a 25mpg vehicle still gives you a 75% reduction in costs per mile - Ultomato, on 07/18/2009, -1/+1@singularity
thats why people want a cheap electric vehicle. so we can buy a solar panel with the money left over. - norman619, on 07/18/2009, -1/+1watermelonx:
I'm glad you are secure in your homosexuality but this is hardly the forum for your coming out. If you are Digging from inside prison then my mistake. - Evilblobs, on 07/18/2009, -5/+5Why do they keep giving money to the utterly inept company Tesla.
All these government loans are ***** anyways, but of all the companies, they chose one which only makes a crap roadster and [soon] an overpriced sedan. - Ultomato, on 07/18/2009, -2/+2yes, a electric car with virtually no maintenance, 40% less emissions than a gasoline powered car(not to mention u can charge with 100% less emission if u charged from clean energy such as solar and wind)lots of torque, and cheap to fill up.
what a mistake we are making. -
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