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97 Comments
- vituperative01, on 04/02/2009, -1/+35It's sad that an industry that is actually something that people "need" (renewable energy and efficient transport) doesn't seem to interest American industry. I guess we'll keep making reality television instead.
- michaelpinto, on 04/02/2009, -1/+25None of this is real yet, but it shows that China is serious about an industry which we're already lagging behind: "The goal, which radiates from the very top of the Chinese government, suggests that Detroit’s Big Three, even as they struggle to stay alive, will face even stiffer foreign competition on the next field of automotive technology than they do today. “China is well positioned to lead in this,” said David Tulauskas, director of China government policy at General Motors."
- danreeves, on 04/02/2009, -2/+22Well I'm going to start learning chinese. It'll make the transition easier when they become our maniacal overlords.
- axlhardd, on 04/02/2009, -1/+19So basically, our ***** in charge, who never supported the electric car in the first place, now just have another ***** excuse to fight it. visa vis "electric car=china=communism."
This is why we can't have nice things. - willrs, on 04/02/2009, -2/+20GO CHINA!
- jhails, on 04/02/2009, -1/+18China might produce crap cars at first but they will improve rapidly. Remember when everything Japanese was junk?
- IndyDoug, on 04/02/2009, -0/+13American policy makers are committed to maintaining and preserving the current status quo while the rest of the world has moved beyond two-party politics.
- ptFoe, on 04/02/2009, -0/+9just like american made cars
- chthonical, on 04/02/2009, -0/+8Funny. I put forward an idea a while back on how to put the US on top and repair the economy by capitalizing on government-backed research, development, and deployment of clean energy technology on a mass-production and mass-training scale to employ tens to hundreds of thousands of Americans, and now China's doing it.
- PandaBearShenyu, on 04/02/2009, -0/+7I've always wondered this. I still remember when everyone rode around on bicycles in China when I was a kid. I was always kind of afraid of what the consequences are if everyone had a car like in North America, just think of the pollution. I was always fond of the idea of China just skipping the soon to be obsolete petro-powered cars and going ahead with technology for the future like electric, hydrogen cars.
Personally, I'd really love to see China invest in the deployment of hydrogen fuelling stations around the country and research cleaner and less energy consuming ways of producing Hydrogen, the technology for hydrogen cars is already ready for mass market production, it's just that the filling stations aren't ther yet. - khail250, on 04/02/2009, -0/+8Living in China the past year, I would say this is a great idea. Their gasoline is socialized, never got too expensive, but then never became cheap after the price drop. They have pretty much all the factories for all products in the world, and smog is becoming a very annoying issue here. The only times I see stars at night is after rain, just hope this helps the world/China by reducing dependencies on oil.
- davechua, on 04/02/2009, -4/+11While meanwhile, in the US, GM still continues to build Hummers...
- zeth006, on 04/02/2009, -0/+6The answer is, in the long term, YES.
If the Japanese did it...if the Koreans did it...why can't the Chinese?
Remember people, not long ago Korean cars were crap. They were the joke among the auto industry as far back as the 1980s. Now they've made major progress and their market share numbers show they're still growing. Remember...in terms of engineering talent, Korea's just a tiny little half-peninsula. China's got 1 billion+ people to hire from. - zeth006, on 04/02/2009, -0/+5That's a very QUESTIONABLE interpretation of data.
First off, Chinese cars are of bad quality because the Chinese only recently entered the automobile market. Their safety standards and quality control measures are much lower when compared against car companies from Japan and America. It has nothing to do with planned economies or the like.
Where did you hear Chinese car companies were state-owned? Did you just make that up from your own biased assumptions? Go back and research and don't come back until then.
P.S. Chery is a publicly owned and traded company. - TigerStar337, on 04/02/2009, -0/+4The USA has executions, Gitmo, invasion of sovereign nations like Iraq and Afghanistan...etc. Not only that, the USA is the only country to use the nuclear bomb...twice! The USA is great.
- jbella, on 04/02/2009, -0/+4Yes. Because we can't produce an electric car right now that can go 400 miles for $30,000, we should just stick to making reality television shows.
THis is the kind of short term thinking that gets us into trouble over and over again. Of course new technology is more expensive. The only really really expensive about electric vehicles at the moment are the batteries. These are getting better and cheaper at an amazing rate lately. There are also innovative business models where you don't even buy the battery with the car. (see http://betterplace.com) - TigerStar337, on 04/02/2009, -0/+4/News flash: Worker bees. Your overlords are calling. Your job assignment today is to read a whole bunch of "news" stories about how China is worse than the wonderful, benign free-market paradise we've created for you. Thanks to Exxon, Walmart, McDonalds, and Starbucks for sponsoring this special investigative series.
- jbella, on 04/02/2009, -0/+4@howcansheslap
That is what people used to say about japanese cars. - Gndoab, on 04/02/2009, -0/+4Yes, the one-party system China has is infinitely better than the two party we have, or the 30+ party system many European countries have...
So much better.
And short of the Bailout loans, US policy makers have nothing to do with GM's long term business strategy. - PandaBearShenyu, on 04/02/2009, -0/+4From my view, a Chinese, I think the biggest benefit of investing in this new technology is the potential for it to be mass distributed inside China itself at low costs to the people who aren't as paranoid about the safety of their cars as Western consumers. The biggest benefit would be that a market comprising of 1/4 of the world's population won't be emitting tonnes upon tonnes of pollution/year just by commuting.
On the other hand, will American consumers take to Chinese cars quickly? I highly doubt it, but it's not like the consumers have a choice in the long run, the general trend is the world trying to move away from dependence on oil and sustainable energy. I think in 10 years, our roads will look much different, and sound much different. - chourobin, on 04/02/2009, -1/+4no
- inactive, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3Which is why hybrid should be the first step forward.
- nullcodes, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3The only thing that is holding electric cars back is battery technology, which needs at least an 10 x improvement, if not a 100x improvement.
- zeth006, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3To all the freepers who parrot what Faux News keeps repeatedly screaming about government involvement translating into hell's bells and gates:
Maybe the Communists will get it right with electric cars. Government support CAN be beneficial when aimed in the right direction.
FTA: "The United States Department of Energy has its own $25 billion program to develop electric-powered cars and improve battery technology, and will receive another $2 billion for battery development as part of the economic stimulus program enacted by Congress."
Perhaps Obama understands this as well. - inactive, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3The problem isn't gas or electric, but there shouldn't be much cars at all for Chinese, mass transit is the way to go. There isn't going to be enough road if every Chinese was driving a car.
- JKracken, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3but if you drive below 30 mph, you won't crash, will you?
- rpgmakr, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3What about the financial industry, they're also ahead of us in that one too. What about manufacturing? A big chunk of our jobs are there too.
If they are going to build electric cars that means CHEAPER electric cars for the rest of the world. God speed them. - jbella, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3Better Place's battery swap concept is to create a car wash like swap station. You put your car in one side like a car wash, and it is pulled through and the old battery is removed and a fresh one is installed. It's done mechanically so there is no heavy lifting. This is defiantly the most complicated and risky part of their system, but the nice thing with electric cars is that this is not the only way to charge your batteries. Most of the time, you will just charge your batteries at regular charging stations at your home or work. The swap stations are only for long trips, and when you dont have time to charge your car. The downside is obviously the complexity and cost of creating swap stations. The upsides however are:
1) Don't have to get out of the car to "refuel" anymore. Nice on those cold rainy days especially.
2) If you are driving around town you might have a single battery in your car to save on weight. If you need to go a longer distance, a swap station can put in 2 or more batteries in your car. When you get to your destination, you just unload a battery again.
3) The energy required to quick charge a battery is enormous (compressing a 5 hour charge time to 5 minutes for example) How safe would it be to be in your car, or stand next to it while it charges? With a swap station they can quick charge the batteries in a safe environment away from people
4) Since the energy required to quick-charge a battery is so high, the demands on the grid would be enormous. Swap stations can manage the demand more intelligently by either slowing down the charge rate (slow charging) or if they have an adequate supply of batteries, they can decide to not charge the batteries until off-peak hours. Imagine a hot day when everyone is running their AC coupled with a million cars demanding megawatts pumped into their batteries in the span of a few minutes.
5) One of the greatest advantages to this approach in my mind is the idea that you no longer own the battery. This has been the biggest stumbling block of electric cars. People are afraid of owning the battery because it's expensive. It will currently add about 10k to the price of a car. If a third party ows the battery and all you have to do is buy the car.. we could have cars electric cars that are cheaper than regular cars today. - inactive, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3Two party systems, like that in Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, China, Iran, North Korea, Cuba etc?
- zeth006, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3I think just about everything's made in China.
I'll take a Japanese or Korean brand over an American branded car any day. - PandaBearShenyu, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3I agree, Hybrids are simply a transitional technology, in the long run it'll either be full petro or full electric.
- CressCrowbits, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3Hey Gndoab,
Perhaps if people did a little more research into electric cars we might have some that can do 400-500 miles for £30k, maybe?
Maybe you should take a course in Engineering, and get off the high horse you seem to be on. - inactive, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3You forgot fast food, Paris Hilton, MTV, Kayne West, Hummers, Carpet Bombs etc Good ole' Amerika.
- inactive, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3Japanese cars were called tin-can of death when they were first introduced in America. Korean car's reputation is still below par even though they top the ratings year after year.
- Piha, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3I think he's finding the irony in the economic need actually.
I'm sure a chinese electric car is not going to cost 50k, infact I wouldn't be surprised if they actually came out with something CHEAPER than the petrol equivalent. It's feasible if every step of the way there is savings in labour costs (from the batteries on up).
With a petrol/diesel a big part of the cost is the actual fuel, and making a saving in labour costs is difficult there, you're at the mercy of the market for oil. - Gndoab, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3Hydrogen is an energy sink. it takes more energy to compress the gas and store it then one gets by using it as a fuel source. It is more efficient to simply use batteries and plug it directly into the power grid.
- canchin, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3Who cares if American consumers want to buy Chinese cars? Chinese will buy Chinese cars and that will only stimulate the Chinese economy and improve the air in China and boost the Chinese auto industry. It is doubtful if anybody in China really shivs a get if American consumers want to buy Chinese cars since it will be a long time before there will be enough to export anyway.
This is about China - not America. - inactive, on 04/03/2009, -0/+2We at the moment their cars do suck, just like everything else they make. They are technologically well behind countries such as Japan, US and Western Europe. Maybe in 10, 20, 30 year they'll be a real force but at the moment no.
- jhails, on 04/03/2009, -1/+3Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it. Take a look around noob.
- traveler1217, on 04/02/2009, -0/+2Well, this why we can't MAKE nice things. We can HAVE nice things if we have the ca$h (or credit debt) to buy it from the likes of China, South Korea, Japan....
- deslock, on 04/02/2009, -0/+2Only a couple days ago Digg was pissing all over GM for their expensive investment in the first and only all electric vehicle that was set to be released next year. We'd be at least two years ahead of China.
Seriously, we can't crap on it and then say how important it is not to lag in the technology.
Yes, President Obama is right, GM couldn't latch their profitability hope on the vehicle. But it is in American best interest to get it out there and be the leader rather than a laggard. - zeth006, on 04/03/2009, -0/+2Neither has South Korea (or the North). Korea continues to buy F-15s from America.
The Chinese have already developed their own jets and tanks. Sooner or later, they'll have an aircraft carrier in the works. It's just a matter of time.
EDIT: Soccer has nothing to do with engineering talent. China hasn't tried hiring any good coaches (yet). - gkiltz, on 04/02/2009, -0/+2In China, they can easily just put people out of their homes with little recourse or even warning to build power lines, or power plants. That gives them an ability to pursue electric cars that not every country has!
- Gndoab, on 04/02/2009, -0/+2Saying one party is in power is your first mistake. What exactly is it you are trying to say there? who has the power? The president? He can't do anything without the congress. The Congress? they can't do anything without the president. When both houses of congress are controlled by a single party, and the presidency is controlled by that same party, you get what happened in the bush years, with the party with the congress getting rubberstamped by the president. the same thing is happening now with the democrats. the minority party can cry and complain all the want, but short of holding a filibuster, they can't actually stop the majority from passing bills like the world is going to end tomorrow.
"When 1 party is in power, the other party tries everything to undermine the effort of the party in power to do anything useful." I'd like for you to give some examples to back up such a blanket statement. The TARP bills passed through congress and the presidency both with a democratic and republican president. The Iraq war was started with consent of both parties in congress (in fact delegating their responsibility to the President, which is a whole separate discussion). Health care reform isn't faring as well, but thats because people elect representatives that think like them. If People from the midwest continually vote for people who don't want nationalized health care, then obviously those politicians will vote against it in the house and senate.
Basically what you are saying is that One person should decide what is good for everyone, and even if it's not good for everyone, those who it isn't good for have no right to speak or try and stop such an act from being committed.
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator"
"there is a reason FDR asked for a 3rd and 4th term"
And there is a reason he didn't get it. Being in power for that long corrupts and creates all sorts of problems with loyalties and favors. It may be good for the people, but it's even better for those in power. - inactive, on 04/03/2009, -0/+2"Most likely, Europe will earn by selling nuclear technology while Australia will earn by selling radioactive resource. "
China is the world leader in pebble bed nuclear fission reactor technology, the safest kind of reactor there is.
As for uranium australia or russia are good sources. - inactive, on 04/03/2009, -0/+2Did you just miss the past 50 years of china's development?
- inactive, on 04/04/2009, -0/+2to fairness to the USA, nobody has the money for a brand new hybrid right now; the economic capacity isn't there for most people. and psychologically the demand has gone down due to lower gas prices
opec, this is where you come in lol - canchin, on 04/02/2009, -0/+2...and in China, the Sichuan Automotive Group is in talks to BUY the Hummer off of GM...no doubt to turn it into a Hybrid. But then again, one of the many morons in the American government will try and block the sale citing "national security" or some such other garbage.
- rif42, on 04/22/2009, -0/+2Indeed, if it is made as serial hybrid, i.e. electrical motor and drive train and ICE only for as battery power generator.
- inactive, on 04/02/2009, -0/+2Even if tomorrow they made a miracle car, it would take decades to replace the hundreds of millions of combustion engines already on the road.
IMHO, the best solution I can think of is electric cars, powered by the grid which is run buy nuclear fission power plants and renewables until nuclear fusion technology gets up and running. -
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