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90 Comments
- inactive, on 01/07/2009, -1/+36Here's an idea - come out with a car that whoops my car's gas mileage and I'll be the first in line.
- nutsackninja, on 01/08/2009, -1/+28“The internal problems of the Big Three are so great, there is no way they can survive without government help for several years,”
So this bailout was the first of many. I don't see anything changing. No Concessions from the UAW, no real pay cut from the CEO. Nothing! What a piss of money. - PCGUY112887, on 01/08/2009, -0/+19Has anyone thought of the fact that cars are designed to last longer nowadays than they were before? I mean you can get cars with 100k 10year warranties now, why get rid of a car that is still just like new after 3 years? This isn't the 80's anymore, cars are designed to last longer thus reducing the need for an 09 model when the 04 model you already have that is paid off is still in perfect condition with all of the modern features you would expect.
- NiftyG, on 01/08/2009, -2/+18Trading in a car every three years is a luxury that the planet Earth can no longer afford, either.
- oboshoe, on 01/08/2009, -1/+14You really don't need a new car every 3 or 4 years.
And if automakers would abandon the practice of planned obsolescence, you could drive a car for 20 years.
Cars have been engineered to break after 4 years for as long as I can remember.
Simultaneously, other machines with life and death consequences routinely last 20 years or more with proper maintenance (i.e. aircraft, even the average Cessna last 30 years or more)
With proper maintenance and proper design, an auto should last a minimum of 15 years.
But..that would harm profitability....... - DiscoLando, on 01/08/2009, -0/+12The bottom line is that American spending habits are radically changing. Gone (or mostly gone) are the days of perpetual, revolving debt - cars, credit cards, HELOCs, etc...
Corporations will have to adjust or go out of business - once Americans realize the extreme benefits that Saving has over Debt, I wouldn't expect things to return to how they were. - mbraynard, on 01/08/2009, -1/+13No, Earth told me he could afford it, he just needed a couple of days to get the money together.
- cantaclaro, on 01/08/2009, -1/+12And the sad thing is that the automakers, rather than innovating new better cars (I'm looking at you electricity), will just complain for more bailouts and money from our corrupt and decrypted federal government.
Innovate, instead of complaining. Find the best minds and bring them together to create something that people want to spend there hard earned cash on and your profits will go through the roofs.
You wonder why car companies are doing so poorly while tech companies flourish?
INNOVATION! Creating incredible new ideas which push the boundaries of available technology or inventing completely new technology. Necessity is said to be the mother of invention. People have needs and wants some of which pertain to the auto industry. Find out what they are and tend to them. - jfreeman, on 01/08/2009, -0/+10Then there is no justification to bail them out so that they can keep up current levels of production. It follows that a scaled back industry should be the new norm.
- aepex, on 01/08/2009, -0/+10I really want to know who exactly is trading in a car (especially a new car) every three years. Even a little bit of common sense maintenance will make it last a solid decade, if not much longer.
- jks52086, on 01/08/2009, -0/+9They were.
- mbraynard, on 01/08/2009, -1/+10New cars are in the tank.
But if American’s were smarter, this is probably closer to what the correct level of new cars sales would be.
Buying a new car is, for most, a poor financial decision. An even worse decision is leasing a new car.
It’s almost always smarter to either buy what can be afforded with cash or to finance a used car that has already gone through its period of steepest depreciation.
Does it make sense that automakers can only get by when Americans are willing and able to make ultimately poor financial decisions?
/ I post a 100 word essay each day on my FB account. Read them here: http://www.facebook.com/notes.php?id=670081041 - cantaclaro, on 01/08/2009, -0/+9Because people haven't forced them too. Joe the Plumber for some reason or another thinks that he has to go out and buy a new $25,000 car every couple of years when he can barely afford to put food on his families table which resides in a house he can't afford.
People are constantly living above their means, and it's getting ridiculous. - EpicSelekta, on 01/08/2009, -0/+9The mesoamericans also thought that the Spaniards were Gods, so I would take their powers of interpretation with a grain of salt.
- ashwinmudigonda, on 01/08/2009, -0/+8Why am I seeing 2012 in every post this last week?? good or bad that year seems to be the IT year. God dammit! The tension is killing me.
- sinurgy, on 01/08/2009, -0/+8“Trading in a car every three years is a luxury that the average American can no longer afford,”
Trading in a car every three years is a luxury that the average American never could afford. *fixed* - oboshoe, on 01/08/2009, -0/+7That's been Detroits business plan for the last 20 years.
Turns out..Is not so sustainable. - Gizza, on 01/08/2009, -0/+7"Trading in a car every three years is a luxury that the average American can no longer afford,” said consultant John Casesa."
You don't say....
The thing is, unlike something like computers, I can get a car that is 30 years old and not have any problems with it. My current car is a 93 model with just over 200,000km on it. I still just get it serviced every 10,000km and it's still going fine.
Sure there has been advances such ABS etc, but nothing so ground breaking that you need to run out and get a new car for it. - LinMorel, on 01/08/2009, -1/+7Bailing the Big Three out at the taxpayer's expense isn't what I want my tax dollars used for. History repeats itself, and big government isn't the answer. The mess we are in is precisely because we don't let the market handle itself. Look to history and you'll see that the depression lasted a lot longer because of the government, not in spite of it. Big brother does not know best.
Add to current government mandates with regard to car specifications, union costs that exceed what other car manufacturer's have to pay (another whole story of the car industry's infra-structure of "government by unions") and so called bank bail out that was to help consumers, and went into bank pockets, without accountability and you have recipe for disaster. What we need is some accountability and cooperation, not blame throwing and bail outs. - defektiv, on 01/08/2009, -0/+6How about businesses stop running their business models as if every tomorrow will bring twice as much revenue and will expand them into another country. How about we stop worrying so much about what a competitor is doing so we can sue them into bankruptcy and buy them out and just try to build a better product? How about we stop sending jobs overseas for cheaper payroll costs so we can pad executive bonuses and start focusing a little on customer service with a person who knows the product instead of reading index cards from the other side of the world?
Suck it up, tell your investors to bite the bullet and we'll see everyone when the market stabilizes again. - RenderGod, on 01/08/2009, -0/+6Where's that car I used to plug in?
Oh yeah, I remember now. You took them all.
Too bad they aren't made anymore. The american
car business would be kick butt. But no....
When I was growing up. It was all about MOPAR
and crusing the ave. maybe a little drag racing on
the side. My point is, back then, we loved our cars!
Ford and Chevy people with cars/trucks bought signs
and poked fun at eachother. AND they loved their
cars/trucks. Where has this gone to? The love and
passion for american cars? It's hard to love something
that costs you 90 bucks to fill up and get 12 MPG!
It's VERY sad to me to see American car companies
looking for bail outs and acting this way. Are the people
on the boards of these companies freaking morons?
You should have done something when your compaines
kept making car after car of gas guzzling SUVs!
They can only blame themselves! And NO I won't pay
to save the company you ran in to the ground. Sorry! - BESTenemy, on 01/08/2009, -0/+6 By bailing out the automakers they keep the production levels higher than needed. The inventory takes longer to push and the recession ends up lasting longer. Those are some of the "unintended" consequences of market intervention.
Recessions are great for getting rid of inefficiencies - purging the overextended, the corrupt and the unprofitable. What we get instead is "survival of the weakest". The good companies that did not contribute to the economic mess get their supply lines cut off while the bankrupt receive one taxpayer handout after another. - Khast, on 01/08/2009, -0/+6For a start, if people can't afford new vehicles, maybe make more vehicles in the lower tier, with fewer options. BUT make the vehicles so that options can be easily added later down the road.
I've watched the price of vehicles steadily rising over the years. Granted there is the inflation of the dollar. However, in the minds of the people, when purchasing a vehicle, I still think back to my older car's MSRP price and think how I got much more for the $15,000 than I am getting for a new vehicle which for the same types of options, costs $30,000 now. I can't see myself spending that much for less of a vehicle. (I know, people are going to say that that was then, and this is now....) But really, that wasn't that long ago, only about 6-7 years.
We are coming into a recession, what people are more likely to be looking for is, first, if I am probably going to look for a vehicle which I can afford. Second, does it feel like the vehicle is going to fall apart easily? (Lot of the very low end vehicles don't feel too durable.) Third, if the vehicle breaks down, how hard will it be to perform my own repairs and maintenance? (Since I am probably not going to be making as much due to the recession, I need to cut costs where I can..I can do an oil change for $11...why take it to a dealership when they charge $39.99?) - uptwolait, on 01/08/2009, -0/+5I learned my lesson when I was 23. I got through college without owning a car (rode a motorcycle, my parents let me "borrow" their car to use in bad weather). When I graduated they GAVE me an 8 year old Buick Skylark that had been well maintained, had around 80,000 miles, and was recently repainted. I got my first job, started making what I thought was good money, and promptly traded in the Buick on a brand new Mazda 626GT. It was one of the best cars I've ever owned. Being turbocharged and 5-speed, it got 30+ mpg whether I babied it or floored it.
Two weeks after I bought it, a wise older guy I worked with asked me some questions, and the conversation went something like this:
Him: "Why did you trade in that perfectly good Skylark on a new car?"
Me: "Those GM x-body cars are prone to having transmissions go out around 100,000 miles."
Him: "What would a new transmission cost?"
Me: "Geez, they're like 1500 dollars!"
Him: "And what is your monthly car payment on the new car?"
Me: "Just over 300 dollars."
Him: "So in 5 months you could have bought a new transmission and driven another 100,000 miles for free?"
Me: "Um, yeah....*****." - mnocket, on 01/08/2009, -0/+5$1/yr sounds like a CEO pay cut to me.
- acknotSW, on 01/08/2009, -0/+5Yep, the party is over and from the top down, they just don't get it yet.
- Koushiro, on 01/08/2009, -0/+5After how they destroyed the public transportation systems in the US I hope they do suffer and fail for doing that. We used to have a street car system in MN that they convinced people was unnecessary with bribes and the like.
I do feel bad for the people who will get hurt by it though... - BESTenemy, on 01/08/2009, -0/+5One of my favorite financial analysts had recently stated: "Many of today's consumers have purchased their last car. They just don't know it yet."
- bbhill, on 06/16/2009, -0/+4I'm not sure why people feel the need to get a new car every 3 years. I drive a 96 honda accord and I have no intention of buying a new car any time in the future. Nor do I really have the money. Even worse is when I see people LEASING a car. Why would you ever rent a car for anytime over a week?????? Worst financial decisions ever
- nigelmansell, on 01/08/2009, -0/+4here's an idea to save the auto industry, make crappy cars that breakdown every 3 years and you got yourself a sustainable business model.
- LoudMusic, on 01/08/2009, -0/+4In other news, THE ECONOMY SUCKS.
- perfectfire, on 01/08/2009, -0/+4“Trading in a car every three years is a luxury that the average American can no longer afford,” said consultant John Casesa.
No it's a luxury they never could afford. The only thing that has changed so far is the insane amount of credit available to the average joe. - zacharytelschow, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3You hit the nail on the head and it was also my first thought upon seeing this article. I previously had an internship at Snap-On tools, and they had a related concern: the cars are getting so good that there may be a reduction in the number of mechanics in the United States (one of their primary markets). Cars need service so rarely that some of the shops we kept in touch with had ASE certified mechanics doing oil changes. I don't have statistics on this, but I wonder how many cars are totaled before needing anything other than standard maintenance or simple part replacements. I also wonder, based on those numbers, if there's any point in automakers improving the quality of their products. It must at least be approaching the point where the marginal returns on reliability aren't worth the investment put into them.
- tehnico, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.
- blqysmg, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3The Ford Model-T got 24 miles to the gallon. We have not done much in the way of improving gas mileage in the last 100 years.
- BradDoenges, on 01/09/2009, -0/+3Everywhere I look people keep talking about a bailout for the big three. Of course, Ford didn't accept any government money so I don't know where the three is coming from. As for car sales not returning to previous levels, it is funny how quickly people, especially the media, turn to doom and gloomers in a tough economy. Sales decline during slow economic times. They increase as times get better. That is how it has always been and how it will continue to be. When the economy gets better, the sales will go back up. Simple.
- hoist0that0rag, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3if your company can't survive because no one wants to buy your crappy products, tough *****. adapt or die.
the only parties who are in favor of bailouts are the dying companies and their paid-for politicians. the American people overwhelmingly are against bailouts. goes to show how far removed from "government of the people by the people" we've become. - TheManikin, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3Why would you get rid of a car after three years? Take care of your car and your car will take care of you, I've got 170,000 (i owe the previous owner thanks for handling the first 100,000 properly), but with emphasis of making sure every part is in tip-top shape, it still runs like new.
- acknotSW, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3"Debt as wealth"
I can't remember who said it, but I love the phrase and it sums up perfectly what we have been doing for way to long in this country.
Personally, I knew this whole house of cards was near to comming down when I started to hear ditech ads for interest only home loans often with NOTHING DOWN! WTF is wrong with people. - darkened, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3Actually you already are paying, they have your fraction of the billions of dollars already.
- CrudOMatic, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3Ahhhh... poor babies. They want our tax dollars for bailout money. ***** 'em.
- trigun1, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3Cars are probably the most recycled man made item on the planet. Recycled by reselling and when they wear out. When they are recycled almost nothing is left unused, plastics, metals, oil and gas are all recovered.
- slezzzter, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3Cars are a strange product. When they are built reliably, it can actually hurt new car sales by allowing consumers to keep their cars for 10+ years. That said, I don't think you're likely to find too many '78 cars that won't give you problems.
- acknotSW, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3Here in Michigan where we use a lot of salt and rusted out ***** boxes were the norm in the city for most of my life, I've noticed that cars just don't seem to rust like they used to.
A lot of the people I work with drive 8 to 12 year old cars and none of them are rusting the way cars made in the 70's and 80's did.
I bought a 2002 ranger from a friend 4 years ago and haven't washed it more then 10 times since I've owned it and there isn't a speck of rust on it. I crawled under it last week to change the oil and was hard pressed to find any underbody rust either. The engine, transmission, rear-end, steering, and suspension will probably all fail before that body starts to go. The only reason I could see for buying a new car in the next few years would be a radical shift in fuel prices or automotive technolegy. - MagnaCarta, on 01/09/2009, -0/+3I've been driving the same car I bought new in 10/1995. Although it has over 212K miles on it, it still gets me safely and in relative comfort from point A to point B. When it doesn't run anymore, then I'll buy another car - probably it will be a CPO used car. I simply don't need a new car right now.
- Betrayer, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3"244 million cars in 2006" and probably about 300 million today....
thats 1 car for every man woman and child in america. What part of WE DONT NEED A NEW CAR! dont they understand - inactive, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3Yep.
My last new car was purchased 9 years ago. Still have it, still runs great, still passes inspection without a hitch.
If you take care of your vehicle and do the proper maintenance at the proper time, it will run until the body rusts around it. If you wash and detail it at least twice a year (in the spring, and before winter) you won't even have that problem..... I never understood why someone would buy a car that often let alone lease one.... - SilverBlade2k, on 01/08/2009, -1/+4Hmm...Lets examine the car industry.
First, they bring out ***** tanks for civilian use and ignore the customers that want fuel efficiency. Second, they strong-arm, sue, go to court EVERY time that an individual U.S State tries to change it's emissions policy. EVERY TIME. Third, they strong-arm California into scrapping it's Zero-Emissions policy, and destroy their electric cars from the 90's, ALL in favor of putting out guzzlers which serve no purpose other than to use gas, and also, SOLD the battery tech to the OIL industry, JUST to make sure that it would be a long, long time before an electric vehicle was available.. THEN, they STILL refuse to INNOVATE into fuel efficiency, while the foreign automakers got a 10 year jump start on technology. The American automakers DESERVE the lower car sales BECAUSE they were arrogant and stubborn and would refuse to bring out quality, fuel efficient/electric cars that people wanted since the technology was available.
They U.S Automakers continually shot themselves in the foot, always expecting the government to help them. ***** them, they deserve to go bankrupt. - acknotSW, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3We're Americans, we know that the first step in fixing any problem is to figure out who to blame and, of course, making sure we do absolutely nothing to fix the problem or prevent it from happening again. That’s how we roll.
- zacharytelschow, on 01/08/2009, -0/+3In regards to 3, here is the car dealership experience I have been advocating for years:
I want to go to the dealership and see just three models of every car. I want the absolute base stock model with no options whatsoever; four seats, four wheels and an engine. Next to that model I want the absolute top of the line model with every bell and whistle you can possibly get with the car. The third model I'd like is a mid-tier model for test driving. Complementing these three vehicles is a detailed website allowing you to build your car and select your options in the car dealership. You may be thinking "They have those online already," and they do, but the dealership should have access to an exclusive dealership website with higher resolution pictures displayed on much larger monitors so you can really see what the thing will really look like. The customer then builds their car and orders exactly what they want.
There are a few huge advantages to this approach. First, it makes customers wait for their vehicle so they are sure it is what they want. Second, it gets rid of these ridiculous packages that every option comes with. In order to get ABS on my vehicle, I had to get two other options I had no interest in. That would end. Third, it severely reduces the inventory of vehicles that a dealership keeps on their lot, dropping their costs. -
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