What is Digg?343 Comments
- inactive, on 12/24/2008, -29/+153The union leads a company into backruptcy...and they are STILL being greedy? UAW sucks.
- nutsackninja, on 12/24/2008, -14/+129I used to work in a unionized factory that started bringing in non unionized contract workers. You can tell in about 3 seconds which employee was part of the union and which one wasn't. The contract workers actually gave a ***** about their jobs and where actually working.The unionized workers probably had about 25 min a day of productivity and played cards the rest of the time. When you know you can't get fired you would be surprised how little work you will actually do.
- michaelpinto, on 12/23/2008, -11/+83I wish the Bush administration would single out bankers for pay cuts...
- kronzdigg, on 12/24/2008, -5/+73ive seen similar things in union shops. "I can't do that its not in my contract" says the union guy. "But Im just asking you to move the pallet over there with the forklift so work on the assembly line can continue" says management. "I am under contract to only move car parts on pallets with my forklift, not parts for the new robot arms, you will have to get someone else" replies the union guy. Productivity stops. Union Labor slowly dies.
- kanundro, on 12/24/2008, -15/+79Getting paid 6 figures to push a button or guide a robotic arm on an assembly line is ridiculous. Some of the smartest professions don't even make that much especially not without heavy duty experience.
Why should they?
I've seen tunnel workers earn their pay. They make 6 figures too, but tunnel work is dangerous... falling icicles in winter, large pieces of loose rock overhead, dealing with explosives and tight corners. Mining accidents happen frequently.
Firefighters in NYC who run into burning buildings don't even make that much, and their job involves taking risk that's why their pay is where its at because its a risky job but still they don't make as much as the UAW.
UAW doesn't deserve to have any say. - shimmyNshake, on 12/24/2008, -15/+76***** the unions. Theyre no different than the mob, and if youve ever had dealings with a Union negotiator, you'd think you were dealing with the mob. Theyre nasty, nasty people, who will threaten and walk all over anybody who gets in the way of what they want. Obviously it looks like they'll threaten and walk all over the entire rest of population of the United States if need be.
- muckemuck, on 12/23/2008, -8/+63doesn't matter... they're going bankrupt anyway.
- Coolone84, on 12/24/2008, -18/+68Dear Unions
Die - PsychThreat, on 12/24/2008, -9/+52The UAW would cut off it's nose to spite it's face.....now they'll KILL an industry to prove a point instead of keeping their jobs and securing the future. Doesn't make any sense....all it is, is legal extortion: "give us what we want or your business will fail". Sounds like the mob at work....
- kronzdigg, on 12/24/2008, -21/+64Please let this system fail. It will anyway. Union Labor is so stupid, their game is up. bye bye.
- partrow, on 12/24/2008, -15/+53The Union STILL doesn't get it. Oh well . . . down they go!
- deduction, on 12/24/2008, -3/+40Yep... The unions are really out of control. Oh, and Gettlefinger is whiny little prick.
- csstudent, on 12/24/2008, -1/+34The Bush administration has done more than enough already. It will take years to (hopefully) recover from the damage they have done.
- AnGryTreE, on 12/24/2008, -4/+34When you compare salaries to salaries the union workers of one the big 3 are not that far off from the Japanese car makers running plants in NA. However, when you add up all the benefits and pension deals and other union "sacred cows", it's a whole 'nother ball game and it put's their staffing costs way up there. I agree that management must be held accountable and make changes, but if the UAW or CAW wants any kind of support from the general public, they will have to at least be willing to put some things on the table.
- DutchGuilder, on 12/24/2008, -4/+33If the UAW wants $15B from the taxpayers they should be forced to make the same concessions as the bankers who received $5,000B from the taxpayers. Oh wait a ...
- LordRedSnake, on 12/24/2008, -5/+29No, nobody has criticized their executives... Have you been reading/watching the news?
- DBrez8, on 12/24/2008, -2/+25FTA "The union also must take company stock instead of cash for half of the money that car companies pledged to finance a health-care trust. "
This is a great idea. Fund the UAW with company stock. Then the whole system should self regulate. As the UAW gets benefits over what competitors have, the stock price will suffer, making them keep their demands in check. Seems like the best idea to me, management and workers are in the same boat instead of working against each other. - urothane, on 12/24/2008, -1/+23Having worked in places where unions ruled the roost I have long believed their time has come and gone. I freely admit that the work conditions demanded the creation of the unions, and I am grateful for things like 8 hour work days and weekends. However now they merely make it too expensive for companies to compete when using American labor and that has caused us to become a service sector economic base. This very fact is at the heart of the current econoclypse.
- kinerry, on 12/24/2008, -6/+26it's called asking for more money all the time when the product they produce isn't selling
- moses141, on 12/24/2008, -1/+21Yes! If we are going to ask UAW for concessions (which I think we should), let's do the same for the bankers, traders, and whatever the ***** the people at AIG do.
Everyone is complaining about Wall Street Execs making huge bonuses, but there's hardly any backlash against mid-level Wall Streeters, many of whom are easily making 7-figure bonuses this year -- from OUR tax dollars! You'll notice that Congress or Treasury didn't even consider putting limits on those bonuses. - ZeroSum1975, on 12/24/2008, -16/+35The whole reason the American Auto Industries is getting flushed down the toilet is BECAUSE of the UAW. What's wrong with this guy?
- vertigo32, on 12/24/2008, -5/+22Richard Shelby, the senator from Alabama was very quick to lambast the Auto Executives for taking private jets (a $20,000 writeoff due to tax laws passed by Congress) to DC. Interesting...since Alabama has a ~$800 million budget shortfall and Senator Shelby still flies back and forth to DC - and he's not volunteering to fly coach or drive.
Not to mention that Alabama subsidizes the foreign auto makers who build plants there.
Regardless, this isn't a bailout, it's a loan to be paid back with interest. The Japanese automakers already have an open line of credit with the Japanese government, Europe has already pledged $70 billion to their automakers, and the Korean automakers are for all intents and purposes nationalized.
Everyone is hurting right now because people aren't buying cars, and the people who want to buy cars can't get financing. If Congress hadn't let the economy run into the ground (and it was a group effort) all of these jealous arguments from people who think a skilled trades worker with 30 years experience should make less then them because THEY earned a college degree would be moot. It's really pathetic how quickly and easily the labor of hard working Americans is trivialized by people who have no concept of what is really happening. - TheRedNewt, on 12/24/2008, -2/+18Unions can be and certainly are abused regularly. I would point to the UAW as an example of that abuse.
The ability to unionize is important for when conditions are bad, but in many of these longstanding unions the leaders are as corrupt as the small set of executives you point to.
Your love of unions and hatred for executives is ignorant. Not all executives are evil, but not all unions are good. - dusanmal, on 12/24/2008, -5/+21And if you haven't yet heard: UAW have had contractual deciding role in WHAT is produced and WHERE is it produced while not having a clue how to sustain business over long time. Their greed is a good part of the reason why USA automakers focused on a wrong (temporarily highly profitable) products. Also, by pushing unreasonable wages they forced companies to cut what is possible: quality of the product... Two very executive roles from UAW.
- NiftyG, on 12/24/2008, -8/+24Toyota's CEO makes less than $1 million / year while GM CEO Wagoner took home $14.4 million in 2007, a year that GM lost $38.7 billion.
The unions only build what they're told to build. Detroit's CEOs and executives are the ones deciding to make cars that people don't want to buy. They take home enormous salaries while driving their companies off a cliff. If you want wages in line with the Japanese, leave the unions alone and start at the top. Bring executive wages in line first. - Demener, on 12/24/2008, -0/+16This would've been my 1st year getting an xmas bonus (recent grad) but the small company I joined said "no bonuses" because of the recession.
Oh and if next years sales drop more than 20% everyone gets a salary hit.
Dear Wall Street, ***** You and your "we need keep wages the same and to give out bonuses with bailout money so people don't quit" horse *****. - LordRedSnake, on 12/24/2008, -3/+18Actually, when you remove the pensions and health care costs of retired workers from the equation, UAW workers still earn $10 an hour more on average than workers at nonunion US auto plants.
- FieldAnonymouse, on 12/24/2008, -0/+15Even worse when they can have you fired for doing their job. I worked for a big government contracted company one time in college. I was bringing a computer from one end of the building to the other. On the way I got stopped by a union guy saying that was his job, and technically I could be fired for doing it (my boss confirmed this too). A single computer. Not even a monitor, just the (midsize) tower. Complete BS. If we had gotten the union guys to do it in the first place it would have taken at least a week.
- murrdpirate, on 12/24/2008, -11/+25***** these guys. They are begging us to loan billions to their failing companies so they can keep their jobs, but they scoff when we ask for conditions that will actually enable them to *possibly* compete with foreign companies, and thus actually get our money back. Unfair?? The ***** nerve of this guy! What's fair is that we let your ***** companies go bankrupt and you get to start looking for a new job.
- Darkgh0st, on 12/24/2008, -5/+191) Company makes tons of money
2) Employees make tons of money because company is making tons of money
3) Company starts losing tons of money
4) Employees refuse to stop making tons of money
5) Company dies
6)?????
7)PROFIT!!!! - modsuperstar, on 12/24/2008, -12/+25The Unions are the reason they got in this mess in the first place. Of course the burden is going to fall onto the workers. Maybe their pay scale can come back in line with the rest of the real world. The rest of the work force is paying for your ridiculous health plans and job security now, so its only fair the union should have to bend over and take it.
- LordRedSnake, on 12/24/2008, -3/+16Saab is a part of GM. Toyota is not asking for any assistance.
- executorzz, on 12/24/2008, -3/+16many republicans in congress voted down the wall street bailout as well.
- kronzdigg, on 12/24/2008, -0/+13I work sometimes 7 days a week and often up to 12-14 hours a day. I enjoy work. Work is good for people. Unions are crazy. Just completely nuts. They had their place for a time and now they are going the way of the dinosaurs.
- mnocket, on 12/24/2008, -4/+16Actually, this is one of those rare situations where, in the end, everyone will get what they deserve. Both management and unions have earned this coming bankruptcy. Even at this late date, neither side is proposing a new paradigm (to use a worn out but appropriate term) for auto manufacture in the US.
On second thought, I'm wrong. The taxpayers are not getting what they deserve. They do not deserve to be screwed due to the self-serving actions of management and labor at the "big" 3. - DamnMan, on 12/24/2008, -0/+12As I recall they did consider it. All the 'bankers' started screaming like a small child in a hi-chair refusing to eat their strained peas and the idea was dropped because no one had the stones to just let them fail.
- scamper22, on 12/24/2008, -1/+13when 3000 out of every vehicle goes to legacy costs, you're damn right the line workers played a part. They vote in their unions which demanded pensions and other long term obligations. That's about as major a decision as you can get.
As to bankers. When the bailout happened, we were outraged. Don't sit there saying we think it was okay. It wasn't. Just as we think the bank bailouts were bad, so to is the auto bailout. - LordRedSnake, on 12/24/2008, -4/+16This is the cautionary tale of how big labor has actually come to hurt the lives of its members. They've been reducing job security by sucking their employers dry rather than seeking a middle ground where wages are in line with the rest of the industry and their employers can stay in business.
- digghasnoethics, on 12/24/2008, -3/+14If I was him I'd tie acceptance of any conditions to a halving in pay of all execs. The root of the problem for the US automakers is poor design and appalling management. Make sure they are the first to suffer in this.
- MatthewDuke, on 12/24/2008, -2/+13They killed steel in this country to prove a point too. Nicely done, unions....you proved your point: you suck.
Sincerely,
Youngstown - vertigo32, on 12/24/2008, -0/+11Yes, because the Chinese are going to be worse than Henry Ford and his Pinkertons or the Flint Police / Michigan National Guard during the 1936 - 37 Flint Sit Down Strike.
- trer, on 12/24/2008, -8/+18How about cracking down on your own UAW members and their four hour beer lunches?
http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/10235271/index ...
You want taxpayers to fund this garbage? - flamesrule, on 12/24/2008, -2/+12The union and it's members will learn the hard way that a but in pay and benefits is better than no pay and benefits. Have fun explaining that to your wife and kids when you sit down for dinner and you have nothing to eat. The UAW will kill it's workers and all of them will be out of a job. Think Toyota will hire them? Hell no.
- TheOneKen, on 12/24/2008, -3/+13There is a difference between 'hurting' and needing a huge tax payer bailout. GM was 'hurting' even in boom years.
- TheRedNewt, on 12/24/2008, -2/+12Bingo, TheOneKen!
The American auto companies have been hurting for a LONG time now, and their labor unions certainly did not help. Also, their claim about helping the American worker by buying American cars is crap. American companies have plants outside the country, and foreign companies have plants in America and are building more especially throughout the Southern U.S. The American companies have been struggling to even keep their American plants open. - jbass350z, on 12/24/2008, -7/+16I work in a union shop. My group's job is to fix things the union guys break or screw up. We have more work than we can keep up with.
- slvrbullet87, on 12/24/2008, -5/+1414.4 mil is nothing compared to health costs and retirement pay for UAW workers
- TheOneKen, on 12/24/2008, -5/+14Executives can be held accountable by the stock holders. Unions cannot, because they have legal protections granted by the US and state governments. They are able to use their strike powers to effectively blackmail for damn near anything they want.
- r0g3r, on 12/24/2008, -5/+14I'm not a big union fan, but I would never demand concessions of the average worker without first making the guys at the top take concessions. Cutting one CEO salary in half, for instance is enough to keep a large number of average workers still making their pay checks, while the CEO would still be quite well off, in fact still disproportionately well off.
- rocke86, on 12/24/2008, -1/+10I wish the Bush Administration did nothing during the last 8 years, we would be far better off. Also apply that to the senate and congress.
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