What is Digg?116 Comments
- ColorBlind, on 12/20/2007, -4/+34Hate to burst the bubble...but these aren't 4 wheel drive. They would be all-wheel-drive.
- pjkli, on 12/20/2007, -1/+12When you look at who will be buying these vehicles, off-road is probably furthest from someone's mind. It's more like "what would get the best snow traction."
- MindTrigger, on 12/20/2007, -1/+12As a Jeep Wrangler owner, my measure for a 4WD is whether or not it is actually useful off-road. I love all wheel drive cars, especially Audi's, but I'm not using an Audi for my camping, hiking, and other off-road adventures.
- inactive, on 12/20/2007, -5/+14..and not a single one of them belongs off the pavement.
- jcaino, on 12/20/2007, -0/+8From the article:
Purists will gladly share that there’s a difference between four wheel drive and all wheel drive (AWD). And surely there is … but for a great many folks, it comes down to two simple questions: will it go in the snow and will I go broke feeding it? - allaboutdatiki, on 12/20/2007, -3/+10Not to worry, ColorBlind ... most folks couldn't explain the difference between four wheel drive and all wheel drive ... and that includes most folks that *drive* 'em! :)
- ColorBlind, on 12/20/2007, -1/+8I only say this because in an all-wheel-drive setup you have rather weak components. (Just enough to get power to all 4 wheels) They are all connected via multiple slipping points as well. And usually vehicles have some kind of on-board traction control until to allow slipping/braking/power to go to individual wheels; thus increasing the risk of breaking a CV or axle.
In a 4-wheel drive setup you have stout axles with firm links to a transfer case coupled to a transmission. This being built to take abuse....most of the time. - CedEx, on 12/20/2007, -0/+7Is the WRC not considered off road rallying? I think Subarus do just fine there. Unless your "off-road" includes climbing tree stumps and rocks.
- brufleth, on 12/20/2007, -3/+9"Full time 4WD" and AWD are very similar depending on how different manufacturers handle it. Saying something is 4WD and not AWD or vice versa is overly vague. My WRX is billed as AWD but actually puts power to all the wheels all the time while a Honda Pilot might be called 4WD but only puts power to two wheels unless there's slip. Then there's my old Jeep which actually locked all the wheels and would have torn up its tires on dry pavement.
- VeritasAequitas, on 12/20/2007, -0/+6I was all excited when I saw this, but unfortunately I don't think i could use any of those to pull my fishing boat or ice house :( looks like I'm going to have to get a cheaper old 4x4 around and only use it when I need to pull stuff and stick with my 4 banger car for daily driving.
- inactive, on 12/20/2007, -7/+13And I was thinking about getting a Porsche Cayenne; Perhaps I should wait for the hybrid. Or I'll tempt the wrath of the Digg faithful.
- pjkli, on 12/20/2007, -0/+6Your absolutley right. However your more likley to destroy the viscous clutch used in most AWD systems well before you break an axle.
- ColorBlind, on 12/20/2007, -0/+6maybe all of them combined...... (we are caption planet - sorry couldn't resist)
- subarumaniac, on 12/20/2007, -1/+7subaru wrx: turbo-charged 230hp (or 300hp with the sti) and still 20/27mpg
- KevinWhite, on 12/20/2007, -0/+5That's the whole point of the turbo engine.
Power when you need it, fuel economy when you don't....the best of both worlds. - thebenchase, on 12/20/2007, -0/+5the reply button is a useful feature
- SgtBulldog, on 12/20/2007, -0/+5http://www.christianedstrom.com/newspic.july222006 ...
- ColorBlind, on 12/20/2007, -1/+6I apologize. I should have stated "most." I was merely talking about the top of the list. I own a Tacoma as well and it is very much a 4-wheel-drive vehicle. It is also pretty close to the bottom of the list.
- pjkli, on 12/20/2007, -0/+5I would tend to disagree with the whole "on top of the snow". While it is sometimes better to stay on top of the snow, its easier to control lateral movement while in the snow. And ice isn't the same as hydroplaning. While both cause a loss of mu between the road surface and your tire, if you slow down while hydroplaning you will gain traction. On ice it doesn't really matter.
- inactive, on 12/20/2007, -1/+6Oh yeah, I can just see you driving that without being hassled by the law. "Is this your car sir?" :)
- pjkli, on 12/20/2007, -0/+5Except when you tear up 4wd parts on dry roads, and destroy clutches in high torque situations in AWD systems.
- pjkli, on 12/20/2007, -0/+4I don't think pulling a boat out of a lake would be a problem. And if the mountain has a gravel trail or the like it wouldn't be to hard to do. However if your crawling over rocks or sand then I agree.
- inactive, on 12/20/2007, -0/+4They left off the Jeep Wrangler. My 2004 TJ with the 4.0 litre straight 6 gets 21mpg combined. I'm sure the new JKs must get better mileage than that.
- Error601, on 12/20/2007, -5/+9Totally worthless to compare different classes of vehicles. I don't think a little Subaru is going to perform off road too well.
- VnutZ, on 12/21/2007, -0/+4As the others have said - most of those aren't 4WD vehicles. For a good primer on the difference between 4WD and AWD along with the fallacies of the traction in each, read: http://www.omninerd.com/blogs/4WD_vs_AWD_and_the_F ...
- Rothgarr, on 12/20/2007, -1/+5Cool, my car is at the very top of that list (Suzuki SX4). Awesome car for so little money. While it's a crossover vehicle with a decent enough ride height, I doubt I'd take it off road... but it's perfect for driving on snow and ice.
- allaboutdatiki, on 12/20/2007, -0/+4Hey Brufleth, if I hadn't screwed up the headline, we lose half the conversation here. It's Digg, for Pete's sake ... every hair we split is another nickel in Kevin and Jay's pockets. ;) Many thanks for your thoughts!
- ColorBlind, on 12/20/2007, -0/+4Which is sad indeed. Attempt to use an all-wheel-drive vehicle to scale a mountain or pull a boat out of a lake and you'll find yourself either in a pickle or cutting a few years off the life of the vehicle. On the other hand, using 4-wheel-drive on a high-traction surface is a no-no, particularly with locked axles.
- pjkli, on 12/20/2007, -1/+5Thats not all wheel drive it's 4 wheel drive. AWD is on all the time. Turn your 4wd on for a tank of gas then check your gas mileage.
- ColorBlind, on 12/20/2007, -0/+4Standard 4WD = one front and one back wheel are locked in propelling the vehicle at the same rate. This will also "tear up your drivetrain" whilst not going in a straight line because the front of the vehicle and the rear of the vehicle take slightly different paths around turns.
- KevinWhite, on 12/20/2007, -0/+4Let me ask you this: Why would you NOT want your car to have good fuel economy? If you need/want an AWD/4WD vehicle, it doesn't mean you have to completely disregard fuel economy.
- MindTrigger, on 12/20/2007, -1/+5Most SUV buyers buy the 2 wheel drive versions anyway, because they are cheaper.
- ColorBlind, on 12/20/2007, -0/+3Just think of ice as an infinite amount of thin water on the road. Whether you are stopping or moving your tires are causing small amounts of friction which creates a microscopic amount of water which can re-freeze and un-freeze in an instant.
When someone pounds on their brakes they are literally causing even more friction, which in turn creates more water to slide on. (Try driving on dry ice. If it were possible, you wouldn't slide.)
When you slow down in rain storms you sink in the water and re-gain traction with the road, thus allowing you to regain control.
Ok, i'll shut up now. - skippyatuw, on 12/20/2007, -2/+5If you're someone who ACTUALLY spends time off of paved and gravel roads, these cars are going to suck. But I'd say 90 percent of SUV owners that I know only use the off-road capabilities of their vehicles when they drive it on the front lawn to sell it. And don't give me the "I like to be up high" crap. Learn how to drive and you won't need to be "up high".
- RealHyperX, on 12/20/2007, -0/+3good differentials make the difference between 4wd and awd all but disappear.
- skippyatuw, on 12/20/2007, -1/+4My Subaru has a towing capacity of 2000 lbs. What kind of fitting boat do you have, man??
- MindTrigger, on 12/20/2007, -1/+4lol 2000 lbs for a boat isn't *****. And just because you Subaru will tow 2000 lbs without dropping your transmission on the ground right away, doesn't mean it will tow that weight well, or even safely. Not to mention, the wear and tear on your transmission would render it useless in about 1/4 it's regular life if you towed that weight around often.
- inactive, on 12/20/2007, -0/+3I never mentioned all wheel drive. The Wrangler is four wheel drive. The article is entitled Best Gas Mileage Four Wheel Drive. Apples and apples. It doesn't mention whether highway mileage was measured when running in 2WD or 4WD, I would assume 2WD. I can't say I've measured a full tank with 4WD on but I don't have the impression that it is that much thirstier. And I get exactly 4 commutes out of a tank so I would notice.
- charli2na, on 12/20/2007, -1/+4I prefer the best of both worlds. I own an Audi Allroad and a Toyota 4Runner. The 4Runner doesn't do too bad in winter, but it doesn't compare to the Audi. In the summer we use the 4runner for all camping/hiking needs. However the Allroad is surprisingly capable with the air suspension.
- ColorBlind, on 12/20/2007, -0/+3@unreg:
No vehicle, from the factory, will stay on top of the snow as they are not designed specifically for that. Go google ice trucks. http://www.4x4offroads.com/image-files/south-pole- ...
I'm literally talking about extremely wide, load dispersing, tires. If you sink in snow you'll get no where fast. If you stay on top, you are good to go.
I believe you are thinking more of ice situations then powered snow. - allaboutdatiki, on 12/20/2007, -0/+3The SX4 looks like it offers a lot of bang for the buck. The poor man's A3?
- Haon, on 12/20/2007, -0/+3Check out the WRC. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rally_Champions ... the Targa Newfoundland and other north American rally organizations. Subarus have faired pretty well offroad in all conditions.
- allaboutdatiki, on 12/20/2007, -0/+3FWIW, the EPA rating on the 5.0 liter V-8 1998 Mercury Mountaineer 4WD is 14 city / 18 highway. Maybe there's a lot of downhill runs and stiff tailwinds. :)
- d3dm, on 12/20/2007, -0/+3Um, you might want to rethink that, pjkli. My '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the same 4.0 liter engine, gets 22 mpg on the highway, and it's in 4WD all the time.
- ColorBlind, on 12/20/2007, -0/+3It's true haha.
- skippyatuw, on 12/20/2007, -0/+2I guess we have very different views on what a fishing boat is.
- d3dm, on 12/20/2007, -0/+2http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadra-Drive_II
- pjkli, on 12/20/2007, -0/+2AWD accounts for about 17% loss in power to the drive wheels. Where in 4wd typically the components are bigger and not made to slip at all which means the loss is somewhere around 30%. If you relate the power to economy (torque/fuel comsumption @ X speed) then it's obvious. This only applies when you have your 4wd engaged all the time though.
- pjkli, on 12/20/2007, -1/+3The Audi Allroad is such a beautiful car!
- ColorBlind, on 12/20/2007, -0/+2Only on private property as far as I know. Although, when it snows here in the south, you'll see them from time to time anyway as the law enforcement agencies aren't up on winter laws i'm guessing.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 115 discussions
Browsing Digg on your phone just got easier with our enhancements to the 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is 
