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274 Comments
- inactive, on 12/24/2008, -15/+349Not sure I understand what the point is, here. Christmas isn't really a 'religious festival' any more. It's a celebration of consumerism.
Im certainly not religious - I guess if pushed, I could be described as an 'Apathetic Agnostic' - but I celebrate Christmas, not as the birthday of Christ, but as a time for family and friends, for drinking and singing, and giving and recieving presents, and generally having fun.
I also celebrate Easter - not as time of rebirth, but a time of chocolate!
Besides, the whole idea of Christmas is stolen from various pagan festivals:
Babylon - the feast of the Son of Isis
Europe - Yule, basically winter solstice.
Roman pagans- Saturnalia
And don't even get me started on Mithras - count123, on 12/24/2008, -7/+128As an atheist I still wish people Merry Christmas. It is a time of cheer and goodwill, why on earth would you try to block others from enjoying that?
I'll leave the more Christian of the holidays alone (enjoy that smearing of charcoal on your forehead) but Christmas is more of a tradition than a religious holiday.
Can't say I follow the original meaning of the holiday (I tend not to kill my enemies and place trophies from them on my tree) but not sure how many people do anymore.
Also, for those who freak on the 'Christ' part of Christmas try looking at the days of the week... Can't say I worship Thor or Friga, though I'd be more likely to since their religion has less guilt.
Merry Christmas to all :) - h0ser, on 12/24/2008, -6/+92You all take life too seriously. I hope Richard Dawkins has a happy christmas away from all the bickering people do about religion.
- coheedcollapse, on 12/25/2008, -0/+62Agreed. I'm Atheist and I treat Christmas in the same exact manner as you - as a time to give presents, meet up with family, have some fun, and to cheer my ass up amidst the bitter cold that Northwest Indiana is known for.
Also, decorating the tree is a fun thing to do with my wife. We're lame like that. - SonicAD, on 12/25/2008, -2/+55That's right Planets, it is and always was a celebration of the Winter Solstice.
- rynsa, on 12/24/2008, -2/+55I think Dawkins' beef is not so much with the 'shepherd' as it is with his flock. Santa's name is rarely used when lobbying Congress to push through regressive social policies.
- wrzhydr, on 12/25/2008, -1/+53A festivus for the rest of us!
- davincih, on 12/24/2008, -5/+56Yeah, I'm not sure why everyone is acting so shocked either. Actually if anyone shouldn't be celebrating Christmas it's Christians... since it has very little to do with Christianity anymore.
It's not like Richard Dawkins set up a manger in front of his house. - cquinnd, on 12/24/2008, -0/+32I'm appalled that you would waste Christmas pudding like that.
- kingofinternet, on 12/25/2008, -5/+36christmas is a pagan holiday co-opted for christianity.
- Dipsomaniac, on 12/25/2008, -1/+32D'you know, it IS perfectly possible to celebrate the Xmas holiday season with family and friends without being religious, or even without any nod whatsoever to any religious overtones.
In any case, Christmas is not 'your' holiday. It's a derivation of a secular solar festival and various winter celebrations from other, much older religions. Calling it 'yours' is arrogance and ignorance. - h0ser, on 12/24/2008, -2/+30so angry, where are your christian values? mwhahaaahhahaha
- Pake, on 12/25/2008, -1/+24"Regardless of all that, Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Is that really too hard for you to understand?"
Nah, because if it was that, it would take place in the summer. December 25th is Mithra's birthday, which was changed to Jesus' birthday by Constantine in hopes to convert Romans to Christianity. Christians apparently idolize Mithra, because they also used land that was used to worship Mithra as the building site of the Vatican.
The only real Christian part of Christmas is the name. Everything else was taken from other religions to make converting people easier. - BlueSun420, on 12/24/2008, -2/+25The difference is that there's a common understanding that Santa isn't actually real. Adults generally appreciate the idea of Santa but don't believe he exists, but there are many people that don't recognize that christian mythology is fiction.
There's a danger in confusing fiction with reality. People are less likely to be manipulated by something that they acknowledge is fiction. There are laws and propositions being implemented in our country using christian mythology as justification. If there was a law that everyone had to have a chimney built on their home for Santa I suspect the atheists would start waging a war against the idea of that fictional character too. - gaoshan, on 12/25/2008, -2/+24In my home (athiest) we celebrate Christmas and it is our favorite holiday. It is a family holiday for us. A chance to spend time together, play games, hang out, eat lots of good food, do stuff together. Since we have a close and happy family this is great!
We like christmas music (in general... classics especially... a lot of the more modern pop crap sucks) and we groan and joke about the more overtly christian stuff. We enjoy decorating and most of the "typical" activities. As for it being a "consumerist" holiday all I can say is it is what you make of it. We give gifts but for the most part we don't spend very much money at all... no big ticket items and certainly nothing that costs more than, say a video game or music collection.
We just make it our own holiday and have a good time with it. - du4l1ty, on 12/25/2008, -0/+22How does Santa or Christmas trees have anything to do with Christianity?
- ironhide, on 12/25/2008, -0/+21Ebeneezer, you will encounter 3 spirits tonight :)
- k3rfuffl3, on 12/25/2008, -2/+22Plus, Jesus was born in ~June, and claiming this date is basically a dick move by church - one of many.
- lolwaffle, on 12/25/2008, -0/+20I wouldn't call it a celebration of consumerism. Sure, people buy gifts. But there's also the family get-togethers, cooking a ham or turkey, putting an 8 foot air blown Frosty in your front yard, and watching "A Christmas Story" 12 times in a row.
- chikuten, on 12/25/2008, -1/+21Most everyone I know celebrates Christmas, but I can't name anyone who celebrates it because it's a Christian holiday.
- fretslide, on 12/25/2008, -3/+21I'm an atheist but I like Christmas.My reasons:
1. Free Gifts
2. Chance to score with chicks feeling homesick
3. Party Vibe - RansomHoldiay, on 12/25/2008, -0/+17i couldn't have guessed 420buddah.
- Lewie, on 12/25/2008, -0/+17@TheTaoOfBill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus#Influence ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree#Possib ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_log
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_ham
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassailing#Origins_of ...
Pagans had all of those things. - Ouze, on 12/25/2008, -1/+18I'm agnostic, and believe me, I celebrate christmas. And by "celebrate" I mean getting together with my family and having them make me miserable. But there is a tree, yes.
- whiteguysamurai, on 12/25/2008, -2/+19Happy Horus day!
May your sun deity of choice distract you from living life responsibly. - JCPahl, on 12/25/2008, -3/+19Except he's a fanatic for moving humanity forward, not a fanatic for repressive, outmoded Bronze-age superstition.
:D - neonblue2, on 12/25/2008, -0/+16How very Christian and understanding of you.
- Dipsomaniac, on 12/25/2008, -0/+16You've never actually read any of what Dawkins writes, have you?
If you had, you'd understand why your statement is fatuous. - PrintScrn12, on 12/25/2008, -1/+16Chikuten's from Japan where Christians are not common at all, so his experience isn't particularly strange. Much more common are Shintoist and Buddhists with their own occasions. There is a degree of secularisation with those occasions too. You don't have to be a pious, faithful and practicing member to take part or take benefit from matsuri or nenjyu gyouji.
If you must criticise chikuten for not knowing people who religiously celebrate Christmas perhaps you must look at yourself too. After all do you know people who religiously celebrate Buddhism and Shinto holidays? What about the rest of the major religions? Remember Christianity is just one of many many religions with religious holidays.
Interestingly though Christmas is celebrated differently in Japan where it is more commonly a day with your girlfriend/boyfriend. Yes that is secular.
Don't know why you call him an atheist though? - OneLess, on 12/25/2008, -1/+16And besides, if you ask most US politicians if Christmas is a Christian holiday, they'll say no if they think about it or have been coached. As Bill O'Reilly points out in all of his War on Christmas segments, Christmas is merely the federal government observing a holiday in memory of the birth of a great historical figure: Jesus. Never mind that there's no federal holiday for Gandhi's birthday, or Mohammed's, or Einstein's, or Da Vinci's.
Despite that last line, I think that Christmas is a secular holiday. Santa has more to do with Coca Cola than Christianity, the Bible specifically outlaws the decoration of Christmas trees, and winter gift-giving festivals are certainly pre-Christian. - Gndoab, on 12/25/2008, -2/+16Atheist buddhist?
You should practice more, so that god and not god are both irrelevant. - Secret7000, on 12/25/2008, -0/+12And have fun in the town of Fail today, my good sir.
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/fail/welco ... - Pake, on 12/25/2008, -1/+14Nope. You're celebrating it as the birth of Christ (even though like I mentioned before, you've got the wrong date), but the rest of us are celebrating it as either a corporate holiday, a pagan holiday, or as a post Solstice (Winter or Summer based on hemisphere) celebration. We're doing nothing that Christians didn't already do by using Mithra's birthday, pagan celebrations, and the knowledge that the Sun was at it's lowest/highest point recently to have a little fun.
- Spuy767, on 12/25/2008, -0/+12What was that? I couldn't hear you through that huge pile of fail that you're covered in.
- Target91, on 12/25/2008, -0/+12I smell money. Let's get on this Santa Clause lobbying group.
- 0260, on 12/25/2008, -0/+11What makes you think he is bitter?
- ThreeE, on 12/25/2008, -4/+15Tao, you are a fool for believing in something for which there is absolutely no empirical evidence.
- GlassAgate, on 12/25/2008, -0/+11He questions your faith. He questions that idea that you believe in
a talking snake, that a women could conceive without sex, that a man
could walk on water, that he could heal the blind (by touch), that he
could turn water into wine, etc. He's trying to show you the error
in your "reasoning". Actually, you don't reason at all, you submit.
You accept without thinking. It makes just as much sense to believe
in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or that there is a teapot in orbit around
Saturn. - venomoushealer, on 12/25/2008, -0/+11@ Planets- I don't think the origins really matter as much as the what is actually being celebrated. Which is different for every person. The origins were never really in question. I mean, if what YOU celebrate is in memory of Christ, that's great! If what SonicAD celebrates is in commemoration of the Winter Solace, fantastic! But I don't even know why we're having this discussion because...it barely even relates to the article.
Stupid hyper-link effect. - fahrenheitlf, on 12/25/2008, -0/+11Tao, the Christmas tree originates from the pagan Norsemen of Northern Germany. It was done to protect against evil during the winter by bringing good nature spirits into the house. They also hung wreaths on their doors.
- r0g3r, on 12/25/2008, -0/+10We atheists can celebrate a time of gluttonous consumerism just as well as the next guy, thank you very much.
- Lazydriver, on 12/25/2008, -0/+10Every breath? Prove that he exists beyond delusions, coincidences and a book, then we'll talk.
- opticwind, on 12/25/2008, -0/+10Sorry, it's hard to tell which God did that and which religions you're talking about.
I confused them all, is it:
Christianity, the one with the crusades?
Judaism, the stoning of anyone who commits adultery?
Islam...heh? - Dipsomaniac, on 12/25/2008, -0/+9Booze.
Booze helps with any family gathering. - MacHarborGuy, on 12/25/2008, -0/+9too bad the 3 spirits are Larry, Moe and Curly...
- Racer20, on 12/25/2008, -0/+9I used to spend way too much time trying to post reasonable arguments to engage in a rational discussion with people like Mr. IUseMyWebSiteAsMyUserNameBecauseImATroll, but I've realized that the old adage about arguing with an idiot is true.
So instead of wasting my time, I'll just say that I hope someday these people come to their senses and realize that they are just flat out, indisputably wrong and stop impeding the forward progress of our civilization.
The fact that there are so many people in the country that "believe" in this way makes me angry.
Good night. - ironhide, on 12/25/2008, -1/+10Most of Christmas's roots are in religions far older than Christianity. The tree, stockings and even the date were all "borrowed".
- JustinPM, on 12/25/2008, -0/+9So give me an example of the hatred of Dawkins. The times I've seen him talk he's been relatively calm about things and just generally says his point of view.
- Dipsomaniac, on 12/25/2008, -2/+11Oh, DO explain how.
Let's see what you've got. - Mujokan, on 12/25/2008, -0/+9Dawkins has said this before. It's not hard to understand.
Being an atheist just means you don't think there is anything that could meaningfully be called "God" that exists. (The caveat is there because e.g. Einstein might say that God is the laws of physics or something. OK, that's fine, so long as you don't worship them and think they are going to send you to Heaven.)
Following on from that, you will be against religious practices that use "God's will" as an excuse to harm people.
But there is plenty of other stuff in religion that does more good than harm, and there's no *moral* reason to be against that unless you are making some big slippery slope argument or something, which is hard to justify IMO.
So you can still appreciate all sorts of religious stuff on a human, cultural level. ***** sum, humani nil a me alienum puto in other words. (I know Digg will censor "*****", but I wonder if it will also censor "puto"...) -
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