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291 Comments
- Fejerro, on 02/20/2009, -9/+133It's really not that baffling of a question. In fact, according to the biblical story, it's already been tried. When Jesus was arrested, Peter tried to stop it by drawing his sword and cutting off the ear of one high priest's servants. Jesus stopped him, and said "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?"
The heart of the matter is a smug Christian and a smug atheist being smug to each other. Not really that much to see here. - oldhick, on 02/20/2009, -5/+55Have you gone off the deep end? We live in a world where we have tolerate many things that we don't want to. I have to here car guy tell me about his stupid NASCAR races and his stupid tires and it's annoying. I can go to any auto parts store and find out more about cars if I want to.
I also have computer nerd guy who tells me about every new piece of crap device that's coming out and it's annoying as hell. I don't want to hear it, I don't care about it. There are plenty of gadget stores around I could go to.
I have a female who wears awful perfume and can't seem to talk about anything other than reality TV. Seriously, that should be illegal. I can turn on the TV myself and watch the pointless crap.
But you know what. They are people. I listen and put up with them because I love people and their differences. I understand that a balance must be struck between work and personal conversations and some people lack some fundamental social skills, but you're sounding like a raving lunatic.
What are you so afraid of Alheithinn that you need the government to make speech illegal? I read your blog and think its great. As someone who's so involved in your own beliefs, why are you so threatened? This is hardly the behavior I would expect from someone as yourself. - arandia, on 02/20/2009, -4/+52I would save him. Mix things up.
- Shiftgood, on 02/20/2009, -4/+47why would you try to bring logic into this?
- geekee, on 02/21/2009, -2/+34Yes, any true Christian who has actually read the Bible would respond with an unqualified no when asked whether to save Jesus. No dilemma.
- Hetman, on 02/20/2009, -5/+36I always wondered why Christians hated on Judaist so much. Jesus had to die for everyone to have salvation. One would think they would hold Judiast in praise for these actions.
- Munk3y, on 02/21/2009, -4/+35Buried because it's just an idiot's ramblings.
- inactive, on 02/20/2009, -0/+28All well and good, but I have to draw the line on people talking about reality TV shows ;-)
- Alheithinn, on 02/20/2009, -28/+54Good post. People like that should stalk us at our jobs. I've had to deal with it myself, as most of us who are not Christian have. People who proselytize at work should be fired and proselytizing should be illegal. Nobody has a right to push their religion on anybody else, on my property, on another's property. If I want them, there are plenty of churches around.
- inactive, on 02/21/2009, -1/+23According to the bible, Jesus couldn't be saved - it was his will to be sacrificed. Remeber, St.Peter whacked off Malchus's ear.
- CpAmerica8, on 02/21/2009, -3/+25His Christian co-worker sounds like a bigger moron than the guy writing this. Why would he be baffled and unable to answer this question? It's not like a tree falling in the woods or something. Hell, I'm not even a practicing Christian and I can tell you that this is in no way a good argument. Christians believe that He HAD to die... that His death is part of a bigger plan. They've already rationalized that His death was needed for salvation. Thus, any interference on a Christian's part would be an interference on God's plan: something that would be seen as being infinitely more "amoral" than not stepping in to help a dying man.
Add to this the Christian belief that Jesus was God incarnate, and you have even MORE reason as to why they would not save Him.
If atheists want to read a more intelligent version of this argument that doesn't smack of the condescension that this ***** seems to hold, I would suggest the "Grand Inquisitor" section of Dostoyevsky's "Brothers Karamazov." Far more thought-provoking than this idiot. - nealparr, on 02/21/2009, -2/+22Exactly Fejerro... and so goes most theological arguments. It's just two douchebags trying to feel superior to each other, each one feeling they know more than the other, and neither of them doing anything more than annoying their opposite douchebag. It could just as well be politics or sports their talking about.
- palehorse864, on 02/21/2009, -1/+21Not exactly a dilemma. Peter himself said he would and was quickly rebuked by Jesus ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matt%2 ... ). Jesus said he must do that and even called Peter satan (literally meaning adversary).
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matt%2 ... - Muspar, on 02/21/2009, -0/+19If I were alive back then, there's no doubt I'd want to rescue him from it but would be too afraid of interfering with an execution sanctioned by the Roman government. Those guys tended to get crucifixy.
- irvin666, on 02/21/2009, -2/+19I am a Cyberdyne Systems series T-800 model-101. My mission is, to protect you.
"Stop, stop killing Judas!" - oldhick, on 02/20/2009, -3/+19I've never met any Christians that held any particular feelings on Judas at all... But I can imagine they exist and that is silly.
- TheKillDoctor, on 02/20/2009, -3/+18That doesn't give you permission to annoy people or to coerce young children towards your belief system.
- BoxAdorable, on 02/21/2009, -0/+15Dugg for crucifixy. I'm going to try and work that into a sentence tomorrow.
- orithidon, on 02/20/2009, -1/+15Freedom of speech protects individuals to discuss just about anything but it is the general policy of companies to frown on or outright disallow discussions involving politics or religion (which I find that it's slightly ironic to see CSPAN or CNN on the televisions in breakrooms or lobbies).
- rotundo, on 02/21/2009, -2/+15I admit I was only 16 or 17 at the time, but I had my mind changed by religious discussion. I was raised in a strongly Christian family -- my grandfather was the pastor of the church. I would argue with people about religion all the time and I was 100% sure of my beliefs, as are so many Christians.
But one night an atheist guy that I was talking to at a party confronted me with the problem of evil, and without being rude or dismissive he made an impact. I didn't admit anything then, but those seeds of doubt sat with me. I went to the bible and started reading it more earnestly. Within a year I was seriously questioning the whole thing. A year after that I was admitting myself to be agnostic, and then later, atheist.
I never saw or talked to that guy again, but he may think to himself "people never change, there's no point in discussing this stuff", but in fact there is. It just doesn't happen at the pace we like. - inactive, on 02/20/2009, -2/+14eat his/her brain?
- julielynn1009, on 02/20/2009, -5/+17I understand what you are saying, it is annoying, but it is also nice to have an opportunity to dilute some of the brainwashing with these kind of encounters. Although the Christian in the post will most likely never consider other possibilities, there are those listening to the conversations that will. Still, a part of me knows that if anyone is going to get fired for expressing their religious opinion it will be an atheist and that is just wrong.
- sloppyjoes7, on 02/21/2009, -2/+14Let's say there's a certain Jew. This jew was born in 1915, and was placed in a Nazi camp for extermination. This jewish person figures out a way to save 500 people from the gas chambers, but gets caught, and is killed. The plan succeeds, and the others are saved.
Would you stop him from going through with the plan, to save his life? Even though it would result in the deaths of 500 other people?
I wouldn't. - apastafarian, on 02/20/2009, -6/+17That's a great retort, one that I will happily "steal"! It won't work on my jewish friend and coworker who tries periodically to get me back in the fold, but what can you do?
- Berkana, on 02/21/2009, -1/+12You could try, but it wouldn't necessarily do much good. Peter tried; he drew a sword and cut off the ear of a servant in the arrest party, and got rebuked. If Jesus was determined to be taken and to be executed for your sins, I don't think trying to save him would make much of a difference.
- wombat767, on 02/21/2009, -0/+10Of course you don't save him. He stopped his apostles from attacking the men who originally took him prisoner. He even healed the ear of one of the guards sent to take him. He was fulfilling his Father's commandment, it's not selfish to allow Christ to perform the most selfless act ever.
- JesusTeaseUs, on 02/21/2009, -1/+11People generally don't tell me I'm going to hell if I missed the last season of Buffy, or treat me differently if I don't know anything about NASCAR....
Just saying. - ZeroDarkness, on 02/20/2009, -8/+17Interesting question. I'd says "Hell yeah" to saving him. If you have the ability to stop suffering and refuse to do so, you're just as guilty as the person causing it. I'm not a Christian, so I couldn't comfort myself by saying "It's ok. It's god's will and he's doing it for us".
I have a better question... given the opportunity, would you travel back in time and murder Abraham before he started this religious mess? (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) - contradictator, on 02/21/2009, -2/+11I'd save him because he was a nice dude who didn't deserve to die.
And I'm an Atheist. - spookyttws, on 02/21/2009, -2/+11HOMER
Oh right, the God dude. Hey, I got a question for you. (pulls out a piece of paper) "Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?"
NED
Well sir, of course, he could, but then again... wow, as melon-scratchers go that's a honey-doodle. - whatthefu, on 02/21/2009, -0/+7Trying to save him would lead to your death too. But there is a possibility you'd end up in scripture even if he wasn't crucified on that day. Hell yes.
- Cofaloaf, on 02/21/2009, -2/+9I would save him so he could turn all of my ***** natty light into premium beer and get the ladies for me by doing cool miracle stuff.
He would be the best wingman ever. - CptBuck, on 02/21/2009, -1/+8Actually everyone has a right to push their religion/non-religion. See the first and fourteenth amendments.
- lavantin, on 02/21/2009, -1/+7Why is this such a "deeply philisophical and moral" dilemma?
If I went back in time and I was there beside him and had the chance to save him, I'd just ask him, "would you like me to save your life?"
This satisfies both moral and spiritual obligations. A Christian would be comforted when he would say "no" and not save him because he believed it was according to God's plan. An atheist would be comforted by saving him anyway when he said "no" because he would be doing what he thought was right (which isn't to say it's right or wrong). Also, I've never met any Christian who's harbored negative sentiments towards Judas. Maybe Christians of old, but that's not what they're supposed to do anyway. The guy who wrote this article is basically patting himself on the back for stumping an idiot. Doesn't take a Christian, Bhuddist, Jew, Scientologist, Atheist, etc. to qualify to be an idiot. - KittySpark1es, on 02/21/2009, -0/+6I would definitely try to save Jesus, because if it really was God's will for him to die on the cross I'd probably get speared in the head by Pilate in my feeble attempt to thwart God's will.
- Mankind121, on 02/21/2009, -1/+7One day we'll have the Terminator save Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pUrsUORF4Y - azureskies88, on 02/21/2009, -4/+10Psh, why bother saving someone who's just going to come back in a few days?
- darkstar949, on 02/21/2009, -3/+9@vuke69 - If you understand the theology behind it, it makes sense though. To think of it in a bit more modern context, the act of the sacrifice of Jesus could be seen the same way as a solider jumping on a grenade to save the rest of his platoon.
- PhilMoskowitz, on 02/21/2009, -7/+13I would save him, then lead him into a life of debauchery and crime.
- KublaiKhan, on 02/21/2009, -1/+7There is a particular strain of theology that contemplates Judas's role in the crucifixion, and wonders whether he should be considered the great sinner and traitor that the popular memory makes him out to be (with Dante's help, for sure).
So, saying that 'Christians are always hating on Judas' neglects the point that there is not just some blind observance of a complex theological issue; rather, people should realize that Judas is not some black and white character. - Alegoo92, on 02/21/2009, -2/+8C'mon atheists. There's a lot of good arguments, but according to theology- Jesus was aware that he was sent to Earth with the purpose of dying for our sins. Any intelligent christian would leave him to die, that is his reason for being.
Furthermore, it's his death that makes him so worshipable. The selfless act of letting one's life go at the hands of evil for the purpose of saving everyone is basically the most pure thing one can do.
Anyway, I'm an agnostic and strongly disagree with theology, but this question is not baffling for followers. - Charklii, on 02/21/2009, -3/+8I'm a Christian and I digg it .. I appreciate the brainfood.. but most importantly I like that Digg has finally got back to religious topics in a way that's not blatantly disrespectful .. so thanks :p
- kalvinb, on 02/21/2009, -0/+5On top of it being "already done" why would a believer stop something that Jesus himself said had to happen? That would be going against God which is a sin.
Why would a non-believer care? - boydrew, on 02/21/2009, -1/+6the existence of "evil" or suffering in the world is a product of our free will. I cannot speak for most Christians as I have a more deistic view but that is my answer. Whatever God is, he allows us to choose to do things to each other, it matters not whether we are "good" or "bad" instead that each of us has choice and ultimately there will always be someone choosing to do something against his "brother". I don't see why God would want to have an integral part of our lives in this century. What have we done? We pollute the world and then argue on whether our pollution is what is really the problem. If we can't take care of our own planet why would God want us in heaven with him? My personal philosophy (not that anyone cares) is that no matter what happens you should strive to do good to those around you (in reference to Job, not forsaking what your morals and beliefs just because stuff happens). I hope i answered your question but if not, I hope an answer can be found.
- ZenMojo, on 02/21/2009, -0/+5What about that part where Jesus asks, "God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
Or was that just a bit of theatrics to keep the peasants enthralled? I'd try to stop him from dying of course. - pantana, on 02/21/2009, -4/+9If God's plan was for his son, Jesus, to die, I highly doubt anyone would be able to save him. Let alone jump in a time machine and impossibly go back in time to do so.
Nothing like asking a completely useless question to prove to yourself your right. - Winkythecat, on 02/21/2009, -2/+7That's not even close to the best argument I've heard. Being a Christian, I've heard much more perplexing things that make me think. You'd be surprised at how many Christians question and analyze their faith, it's just the ones with a skewed perspective that ruin it for the rest of us.
Personally, I wouldn't save Jesus. He knew he had to do it. I think the idea of a benevolent creator that created the universe has a better action plan then me, the guy that can hardly eat and walk at the same time.
Just my opinion though. - inactive, on 02/21/2009, -2/+7Get their jew gold.
- lavantin, on 02/21/2009, -2/+7I like how people are already burying you even though you're trying to show an example of logic of a Christian's side and not necessarily raving or ranting against either. Welcome to Digg!
- judicar, on 02/21/2009, -2/+6An even better argument would be, why does evil even exist at all. If there is an all powerful God, a prime mover who created everything, then he must have created evil, why?
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