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73 Comments
- alfredscakes, on 07/03/2009, -1/+45Anybody see the latest reports from Portugal where drug use is no lomger a criminal offence - not exactly legalised but there are no lomnger prosecutions, Crime rate has dropped and so have the number of users. Perhaps we should consider following their example. make something legal and the young won't want anything to do with it?
- Crptq, on 07/03/2009, -3/+28The drug war is a failure.
- govsucks, on 07/03/2009, -6/+30Well no *****. There was no crack or meth before the war on drugs. You can't legislate people off drugs any more than you can legislate them out of poverty or into an education. All of this is a personal choice and if a person doesn't CHOOSE to avoid drugs, CHOOSE to educate themselves or CHOOSE to save their money instead of buying shinny rims, all the ***** government, social programs and cops in the world won't change it.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. Although I'm sure a collectivist would try, probably with a gun. - charlie6969, on 07/03/2009, -3/+24FTA:Will politicians take notice of such a model? Will Brownsberger, a drug policy specialist who sits as a Democrat in the Massachusetts House of Representatives, is sceptical. Even if more detail is added, economists will struggle to get the attention of drug policy-makers, he says.
My question; WHY is that?
Why would you cover your ears and sing lalalala at the top of your lungs?
Refusing to dignify SCIENCE when it doesn't agree with your worldview is , well, retarded!
(My apologies to the Special Needs community) - mrsteveman1, on 07/03/2009, -2/+20The drug war in the US is about ideology, not science or protecting anyone from anything.
- ZenMojo, on 07/03/2009, -1/+18Technically, they replaced drug criminalization with forced rehabilitation if caught. So you won't go to prison, but you do have to go to rehab for a time. It hasn't suddenly become a party country or anything.
And yes, rehabilitation is often more effective than strict punishment in quite a few cases across the criminal spectrum. - Frankyfan3, on 07/03/2009, -2/+16The addiction we REALLY need to break is to Incarcerex
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRPxN7DGy5c
Drug use is a public health issue, and treating it as a criminal justice only exacerbates any negative consequences.
Prohibition = FAIL! - DigablePlanet, on 07/03/2009, -2/+14The police acting this way is like over protected parents of a child. Of course the child will rebel! I rebelled and so should the populous. *****, America was founded on this type of behavior.
- TumblingDice777, on 07/03/2009, -3/+15More enforcement -> more competition in black market -> more violence.
Not sure about the conclusion about lower prices, because I think they assumed an illiquid market. In neighborhoods where there is a lot of drug traffic I would think prices would go higher, while their conclusion of lower prices would hold for suburban neighborhoods. Either way though there are adverse effects of more enforcement in both.
Legalization (or at least decriminalization) of drugs is the easiest lay-up for making the country better for our politicians and they refuse to take it. - inactive, on 07/03/2009, -6/+17When an officer dies while undermining our civil liberties, an angel gets its wings.
- inactive, on 07/03/2009, -2/+13Bah! This is yet another example of the absurd West. Let people be people! Why must the government demand so much? Drug use will never stop and if the Prohibition taught the US anything, banning something will form a black market. Legalize the drugs, and you stop the gangs.
- ipushmycar, on 07/03/2009, -1/+9Even if, forced rehabilitation for being caught with a small drug like marijuana is just as nonsensical as slapping a charge on the person. I can understand if it's a third or forth offense for something like heroin, but throwing someone in rehab for a joint of a small blotter tab would accomplish nothing other than trying to deter the user from using it (also see: drug enforcement).
Of course, I don't know how the laws go in Portugal. As an American, I'm comfortable in saying the USA would never follow another country's working model. And that I am sad for. - realeskimopimp, on 07/03/2009, -4/+11Legalize it and take the money out of the drug dealers pockets.
- tomarocco, on 07/03/2009, -2/+9Duh
- alamedaman, on 07/03/2009, -3/+10DUH
you can't use force to tell people what to put in their own bodies. unless, of course, you're a fascist. - WoWii, on 07/03/2009, -2/+9This should be common knowledge by now.
- m3arvk, on 07/03/2009, -0/+6Bottom line is that if you want to win the war on drugs you either need to make possessing/using them a capital offense or you need to legalize them. Which makes more sense?
- maz2331, on 07/03/2009, -0/+6It also causes the importers to become more creative, sneaky, and try to move more loads. This has the effect of causing an over-compensation and increases the available supply.
- diggduggjoe, on 07/03/2009, -0/+5Pols only like models that demand they must have more power to run our lives. A model that implies the police state doesn't reduce, but actually increased drug use. No use for that.
A model the demands world wide control and higher taxes for all, even if it is pure speculation using computer models that fail to account for the ice cores and satellite temp data. Yep, got a need for that! - DarkCloud515, on 07/03/2009, -0/+5I believe it's optional, not forced.
- inactive, on 07/03/2009, -1/+6Originally preserving profits for Dupont then and now, Liquor and Alcohol products.
Look at the donations given to those for prohibition to those arguing against it.
The Alcohol manufactures are buying up politicians anywhere they can, especially now that this issue has begun to be taken with some consideration.
Dupont solved the problems they faced then. UV degradation. Plastic fibers originally turned to dust in the sun after 4 years and required gloves to handle. They also grew mold faster than Hemp fibers. When Hemp got wet it went rock hard, when it got hot nothing changed. Plastic ropes and fibers to this day are a fire hazard and the soften when heated. Hemp had its problems but Dupont could not compete with it. Inferior product (then). - WoWii, on 07/03/2009, -0/+4One model? How about you look at the whole situation from the start of Reagen's war on drugs to now?
Ignorant *****. - psyc420, on 07/03/2009, -1/+5how come amsterdam isn't leading the way in showing other countries why they should move to a more lax model.....btw, how is amsterdam doing? have they been cracking down on drugs lately?..i though i heard something about this a little while back.
- mattmeow, on 07/03/2009, -0/+4If you're in favor of legalization check out LEAP - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (www.leap.cc)
"After nearly four decades of fueling the U.S. policy of a war on drugs with over a trillion tax dollars and 37 million arrests for nonviolent drug offenses, our confined population has quadrupled making building prisons the fastest growing industry in the United States. More than 2.2 million of our citizens are currently incarcerated and every year we arrest an additional 1.9 million more guaranteeing those prisons will be bursting at their seams. Every year we choose to continue this war will cost U.S. taxpayers another 69 billion dollars. Despite all the lives we have destroyed and all the money so ill spent, today illicit drugs are cheaper, more potent, and far easier to get than they were 35 years ago at the beginning of the war on drugs. Meanwhile, people continue dying in our streets while drug barons and terrorists continue to grow richer than ever before. We would suggest that this scenario must be the very definition of a failed public policy. This madness must cease!" - TheUndertoker, on 07/03/2009, -0/+4Why don't you show me your research that refutes the article.
.....that's what I thought, troll. - s3p1vad3r, on 07/03/2009, -0/+4Don't people get it? The war on drugs is working!
Oh, wait.. let me pull my head out of my ass to see that regulating morality only serves to consume millions of dollars of taxpayer money and ruin countless lives of those that commit victimless crimes... all while not achiving any of the goals it sets out to do.
The realization that legalization is the only answer is so long overdue that we just look like fools continuing down the same path that leads to nowhere as we continue to fight the wasteful and failed war on drugs. - inactive, on 07/03/2009, -0/+4Can we just freaking legalize it already? I'm so tired of old white men in little buildings in Washington making up arcane rules for everyone to live by. They think they run everything. I'm so ready for their little system to fall apart. Let the FED print a bajillion dollars, let them try to socialize healthcare, let them try to run a fascist economy. It won't work, and they will be out on their asses that much sooner.
- inactive, on 07/03/2009, -0/+3http://members.shaw.ca/elementaleconomics/images/P ...
Take a look at what happens when there's a shortage of a particular commodity through government crackdowns / price control. You invite a ***** black market into your economy , no matter what the commodity.
In the pic above Qd( demand) outstrips Qs(supply) and the gap is the shortage.
I view entities such as the DEA as criminally negligent for increasing prices and empowering drug cartels in Mexico for this very reason. And most major Police forces too (some are better than others0> - CivicTV, on 08/14/2009, -3/+6Wouldn't more competition include lower prices? Wouldn't lower prices lead to more purchases and larger quantities? Wouldn't more product being moved mean more power thus more expansion and more violence?
- MattM0914, on 07/03/2009, -0/+3Well, one model and the law of supply and demand. Also, the fact that they've been cracking down for decades and the drug problem has only gotten worse.
- inactive, on 07/04/2009, -0/+3Part of the problem is that drug prohibitionists don't understand what it feels like to use less harmful and addictive drugs like cannabis or LSD. They just lump every illegal drug into the deadly and addictive category.
- jeffiek, on 07/03/2009, -1/+4I'm pretty sure govsucks leaves room for the anarchists.
And, yes, if you're not an anarchist or a libertarian, you're a collectivist. Kind of like saying if you're not under 5 ft tall, you're over 5 ft tall. You can debate the accuracy of the measurement, not the category. - Mujokan, on 07/03/2009, -0/+3This is talking just about local policing of dealing, not interdiction of imports. They aren't necessarily always coordinated in terms of how much effort is put into each.
- Blitzenn, on 07/03/2009, -0/+3My word exactly
- ZenMojo, on 07/03/2009, -3/+5It's funny because the United States has ecstasy prices much higher than Great Britain and we spend a lot more time policing it here. I think the model is counterintuitive and possibly just wrong.
- psyc420, on 07/03/2009, -1/+3my dealer bought 2 audio tt's with all the tax free (& disposable) money he's making.... but on the other end of the shtick...the businessman selling weed legally would also be able to afford a luxurious lifestyle....but at least he would be paying taxes..
- govsucks, on 07/03/2009, -1/+3OK, are you guys willfully ignorant?
A collectivist is someone who believes that their group has the right to force their collective will on others. Collectivists are many in name but identical in one idea, that they are right about everything and that everyone else should capitulate to those ideas.
It doesn't matter if its a muslim or a socialist, a stalinist or a catholic, a democrat or a republican, the only difference is the reasoning they have for the force they use against others. Thats it, nothing more. The goal is the same, for their group to dominate,
I don't believe in that and I never will. I have no right to force my will on others and as far as I am concerned if you think you do you are less evolved. Intelligent beings do not initiate force against other intelligent beings and you won't find peace with the human race or any other species in the universe for that matter if you think you have the right to use force against another. - mrsteveman1, on 07/03/2009, -2/+4Using drugs is about money?
- MWeather, on 07/03/2009, -3/+5Scarcity alone doesn't explain current prices. Seizures just cut into profits, they don't force an increase in prices, at least not at their current scale. Remember that a seizure of $10,000,000 in drugs really only cost the smugglers a fraction of that. Seizures are just a tiny cost added to the overall cost of doing business.
That's why when there is a huge drug bust locally, on the off chance It actually affects the market, even if I have trouble finding some, it still costs the same as before the bust. - Mujokan, on 07/03/2009, -0/+2They're talking about the variable in the model that represents "search cost" for dealers and buyers hooking up, specifically the influence of police heat on both of them. It's just about that one issue. Lots of other things could also affect the model.
- inactive, on 07/03/2009, -1/+3Great Britain and the EU are the main suppliers. The USA does not produce it nearly at the same rate i.e truckloads a week, almost all Australian Eccy comes from the UK and EU.
Australians specialize in weed and amphetamines. If there is eccy around it gets cut and re-blended then re-branded to form papers. The profits go up and people have fun just the same. The problem occurs when pure English Eccy hits the market and some people take 3 in a row when nothing happens. This is what kills them. Regulation would see product purity and far less harm being done over prohibition and the crims (angry thug *****) don't make a cent and have to work for a living. - inactive, on 07/03/2009, -0/+2Its a supply issue though.
The scarcer the supply source becomes the more pricey the product so a bust on a bigger supplier might have an impact, though unlikely. The bulk of growers are probably living down the road with a few plants growing continuously hydroponically (3 every other week) in the roof space or the cellar. If they can make a buck to pay the costs of lighting then they will, usually its great price.
If you remove the clients from one suburb there is a glut that has to be disposed of. This stuff does not have a good shelf life, 3 months at best and it gets cheaper as it dries out for the clients, less water less profit for the dealers so it is their interest to move product quickly.
If the bulk dealers (kg range or garbage bin size) have too much product the price is reduced for e.g a quarter at $110 becomes $90. The same applies to the smaller dealers who deal to consume. They sell in the ounce range down to quarters (9gm or thereabouts) and they must move the product to continue the tax they take from the supply for their own personal use.
A good dealer gives a full quarter bag plus extra if its fresh and still moist, a bad dealer adds water and skims the rest and still gives you the quarter on the mark. You get less, he smokes it. (Hi Apu)
If you smoke weed then the best parties are at the small time dealers house. They smoke about a gram every other day on average between 2 or 3 people. Not much, cool peeps often, hard workers. - inactive, on 07/03/2009, -0/+2He would be doing well to out-compete my neighbors..
- m3arvk, on 07/03/2009, -0/+2Don't mix Incarcerex with the constitution or common sense. So start taking Incarcerex and keep pretending you're doing something about the drug problem.
- Frankyfan3, on 07/03/2009, -0/+2It's not clever... it's just the facts, ma'am.
- Barackalypse, on 07/03/2009, -0/+2But it IS working, if you assume the actual goal is the Government expanding its power and presence.
- inactive, on 07/04/2009, -0/+1***** yeah I learnt something NEW.. ***** hardly ever happens these days!
- stunner21, on 07/03/2009, -0/+1Obviously this is going to happen, people will do drugs if they want to do them regardless of how many laws there are and the harder you enforce them the more determined people will be to get them. Learn from babies, take the rattle they want it, let em have it and the interest diverts to something else!!!
- cmackattack, on 07/04/2009, -0/+1While that is certainly true; it just reaffirms the fact that the Drug war, just like every other War america wages is not about winning. It is only about spending, making, or taking money. Pure and simple.
- Cookieman123, on 07/04/2009, -0/+1Methamphetamine was widely available for purchase in pharmacies prior to it's being scheduled in the late 20th century.
Cocaine was not considered a controlled substance until 1970 -
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