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199 Comments
- WestonP, on 11/13/2009, -2/+123Blah blah blah... If you're so smart, that's just all that much more reason to actually serve on a jury. Someone needs to balance out the idiots in this country and give people a shot at a fair trial.
- michaelpinto, on 11/13/2009, -2/+75My lawyer once made a very good argument to me as to why I should go on jury duty: "Imagine if you were accused of a crime that you didn't commit: Wouldn't you want an intelligent person like yourself judging the case?" I'm not saying that things can't be better with the way things are organized — but it's a small price to pay for being a part of this society. In fact when you think about the fact that Americans right now are serving in combat in two active wars the idea of being stuck on jury duty seems rather trivial.
- lorem1000, on 11/13/2009, -2/+45Yeah, God forbid someone who has the ability to do this thing required of citizens actually does it.
I'd love to experience being a part of the system, as flawed and boring as it may be to go through it.
FTA: "I believe there's nothing unethical about looking out for yourself, so long as you don't harm others." They are doing harm if they can be a quality asset and they deny it. I understand being on a jury can just wreck some folks' family and career time. But if you *can* do it, freaking step up and do it. - raydeen, on 11/13/2009, -0/+37I like George Carlin's way of getting out of jury duty.
"Some people try to get out of jury duty by lying. You don't have to lie. Tell the judge the truth. Tell him you'd make a terrific juror because you can spot guilty people
[snaps fingers] Just like that!" - Deathalicious, on 11/13/2009, -2/+331) It is never "ethical" to get out of jury duty. Serving in a jury is a duty of every citizen, and the only reason you should not serve is if either significant hardship would result, or if it is urgent that you need to work at your job (being a bigshot is not urgent; being, say, a volunteer fireman who has a shift that day, or an ER doctor, etc, is).
2) Forty dollars?!? My wife showed up and received $9 for the day she served. - pwarnock, on 11/13/2009, -2/+31My job pays 5 days jury duty. I was excited to serve until I found out they wanted me to serve on a 15 day trial. Instead of putting me on a short trial, they dismissed me. The system is broken.
- Coven, on 11/13/2009, -1/+26I love serving on jury duty. I got picked for a 3 week long personal injury case a year ago and it was fantastic learning first hand just how sleazy personal injury attorneys can be!
- LeechesOfKarma, on 11/13/2009, -0/+22Just did it a few weeks ago. Showed up at 8am and at 4:30pm my name never got called and was sent home. I spent all day reading Our State magazine and made 12 bucks. The.......best time of my life!
- shadows88, on 11/13/2009, -2/+23"Getting out of jury duty is easy. The trick is to say you're prejudiced against all races."
-Homer Simpsons - Ellipsys, on 11/13/2009, -1/+21And lo, this is why that life-changing legal decisions are in the hands of the bottom of the barrel. People who were smart enough, productive enough, or are otherwise able to get out of jury duty, do so. Thus, you are going to be trying to argue a doctor kept up with the standard of care, or that there's no evidence for malfeasance in the corporate bookkeeping somewhere, to a combination of the elderly and those who got the 400 points on their SAT just for signing their name.
The system is broken - jurors are infinitely valuable in our justice system, but they are paid so poorly that jury duty is a real financial burden to most. You're not going to get a professor of finance to sit on a fraud case despite their clear ability to understand the material, because he's also smart enough to know his mortgage is going to go unpaid if he gets stuck on a long case. There's ungodly amounts of money changing hands in the judicial system, but if some of it doesn't start to go to the jurors who make decisions there's no way we can assert people are getting a fair trial from "a jury of their peers".
"Peers" is an interesting qualification as well, and one I'm not entirely sure is being held aloft for juries today. Lets say I'm a doctor, being sued by a patient for malpractice. My case rests on complex law about standard of care and medical decision making, patient responsibility, and simply understanding the medical procedures as a whole. The prosecution's case is always this: "Big evil doctor hurt patient HURT PATIENT. HURT!!!! Give money now please. Because they're HURT". Which is easier for an attorney to get across to a jury? If my jurors aren't intelligent enough to grasp the concepts of the defensive case, I'm not going to get a fair trial and its going to be very easy for the prosecution to win on an emotional plea. This happens to physicians in court every day. Likewise, should someone who's capability falls somewhere into the "Do you want to super size it?" spectrum sit on a jury for a case involving multinational corporate culpability and fraud?
I know this country flies into a fury whenever money is spent, but we really need to reform our jury system so every case can be heard without handicap. - Hetman, on 11/13/2009, -1/+19I do not want to get out of Jury duty. I want to get into jury duty. Espicially if it is for a non-violent drug offender. Jury nullification is a must if we want to end the war on drugs.
- stonebone4, on 11/13/2009, -0/+17Show up dressed as Princess Leia and claim you can read thoughts?
- lokee73, on 11/13/2009, -2/+18I actually wanted to serve; but got into a fight with the judge over Jury Nullification.
Bastard threw me out. - Whitebeard, on 11/13/2009, -0/+15I've seen it used before, it doesn't always work. In fact, I've seen that exact same excuse used before, and the Judge saw right through the fact that it was an excuse and assigned the lady with another jury trial that was even longer then the one she was being selected for. I wish people would stop whining and just serve their jury duty.
- Smokeydabear, on 11/13/2009, -1/+15So basically your way to get out of jury duty is to have a valid reason? Wow, that's remarkable, I can't believe I have never thought of that!
- Smokeydabear, on 11/13/2009, -2/+15Yeah but no one forced them to serve in the wars, they volunteered.
- jserio, on 11/13/2009, -1/+12When I was in college, I was called 3 times to be on a jury but had to excuse myself (as a student). Now, as a working professional, I can't get called to jury duty to save my life. I was called for duty once and dismissed after the group questioning. I don't understand these people that feel burdened by this opportunity. I would love to serve on a jury just for the experience - short or long. I can understand those that are less fortunate (economically) though.
BTW, did anyone read the comments for that story, specifically the one by "Charles Cosimano" where he goes on to say we have no obligation whatsoever to serve? I'd like to hear some opinions on his argument. Edit, here's a link to his comment (2nd one in the list): http://blog.beliefnet.com/everydayethics/2009/11/h ... - tmonsta1, on 11/13/2009, -0/+11"Ethically" shirking your civic duties... wow.... just wow
- GravyTrain6, on 11/13/2009, -0/+11there are two of them?
- jbcsee, on 11/13/2009, -1/+12I've always asked to speak to the judge privately. If he does speak to me I express the fact that I think the states supreme courts ruling on jury nullification was invalid and un-constitutional.
Every time I've spoken directly to the judge with that argument I get dismissed immediately, since the judge does not want to taint the entire jury pool.
On the one occasion where the judge did not grant me a private audience I started expressing that same sentiment publicly when questioned. I was asked to stop by the judge, they removed me from the room, I was dismissed shortly after that. I don't know if it had any effect on the rest of the jurors.
Since I believe nullification is the right of the jury I don't feel this approach is un-ethical. I actually would enjoy jury duty, but not judge or lawyer in their right mind would let me on one. - darkened, on 11/13/2009, -1/+11Q: "How do you get out of jury duty?"
A: "When brought infront of the judge to express your feelings 'Your Honor, I have a habitual distrust of police officers. I feel they make their career solely by willfully causing others misfortune with no regards to actual justice. I will find anything they say to be motivated by deceit for their own career and will never be able to act impartial.'" - IHaveIssues, on 11/13/2009, -0/+10I wonder what proclaiming yourself to be a proud atheist would do for your jury duty selection chances?
- Jeff901, on 11/13/2009, -0/+9Those are the people you want....those without any prejudice who can deliberate on the basis of the evidence presented against the defendant instead on their sometimes, baseless knowledge of law.
- smack1700, on 11/13/2009, -1/+10I get paid my normal salary for doing Jury Duty, and I've done it in the past. So I don't take a financial loss for JD...
What the hell is wrong with doing your civic duty? I figure that if every person with a job tries to get out of jury duty, that leaves the elderly, housewives, and the unemployed. You need people like us to balance out the Jury ranks.
Think about it, if you were on trial, how intelligent would you like your jurors to be?? - Thud, on 11/13/2009, -1/+10The first time (and only time, so far) I sat on a jury was for a murder case. Unfortunately, my jury was composed almost entirely of smart people.
We deliberated for hours. And hours. And hours. All in all, 3 days of deliberation after 10 days of trial. We eventually just had to give up... hung jury. I mean there was clearly overwhelming evidence that the guy committed the crime, but there ended up being 1 super-analytical-"smart"-guy who insisted that "beyond a shadow of a doubt" actually meant "exactly zero doubt whatsoever." After all, we couldn't PROVE that space aliens didn't teleport into the scene and commit the crime, and then subsequently plant the guy's DNA everywhere, so that leaves some room for doubt... right?
A jury only needs 1 or 2 smart people who can convince the rest.
By the way, there was a retrial a few months later. THAT jury deliberated for 15 minutes before coming to a guilty verdict. - JoeParanoid, on 11/13/2009, -0/+9You were dismissed because you had already decided on his guilt.
- newbill123, on 11/13/2009, -0/+8The lawyers arguing the case will not want a bias or conflict of interest. Raise the question if your religion might pose a bias or conflict of interest in the case. In my town, I was raised in the same church as the local D. A. When I am asked of potential prejudices, I mention that fact. I'm quickly struck by someone (D.A. not wanting his case undermined after the fact, the opposing attorney suspecting bias, or the judge seeing potential prejudice and preemptively striking me).
I think I would be an unbiased juror, but I've never had the opportunity to find out. - regulan, on 11/13/2009, -0/+8In theory that's all fine and dandy, but in some places you'll get thrown in jail for contempt.
I live in Madison WI, and here in Dane county the judges will punish you if you say that. I have a friend that is a public defender in Dane county and she would always tells us that if you use that line your ass is in jail. Sure it's not illegal to say that, but it really pisses the judges off. Part of me never believed this until I was on a jury duty last month. One of the people in the pool used that excuse and the next thing you know the bailiff was taking them away. Judges know when you say this your just trying to get out of the system and in some places you will be punished. - 1town, on 11/13/2009, -1/+9Jury of your peers vs. Jury of those who think $40 a day is good money.
How does Jury duty work in the states anyway?
Who gets called on? I'm pretty sure you have to apply to be in a jury here.
Edit: and you get payed whatever you can attest to losing of workpay. - Llamazorz, on 11/13/2009, -5/+13This may work in nowhere Nebraska, but would never work in nyc or la.
This is the line I always use, it will get you kicked out of voir dire instantly.
"I strongly believe in jury nullification and believe I am ethically and morally bound to uphold such, given the tyrannical and oppressive nature of our government, especially our judicial branch. I tell the court this to its own convenience, as no matter what the crime or its severity, I will continualosly deliver a not guilty causing a mistrial" - ballsanya, on 11/13/2009, -0/+8That only works in Chicago, not New York
- Bulletbillx, on 11/13/2009, -0/+8States used to use registered voters. now a lot of them use drivers license databases or other methods because people weren't registering to vote because they never wanted to be called for jury duty.
- WilliamDavis, on 11/13/2009, -0/+7You aren't required to talk about your views on nullification beforehand. If you really believed in it, you would keep quiet until you had an opportunity to use it.
- Pentatonic, on 11/13/2009, -0/+7i had to go to jury duty about 8 months back. I just went through the motions, didn't fudge anything, spoke to when asked, etc. I wasn't "looking" to be let go. I did get to voir dire in front of a judge and the attorneys for a criminal case. The others, especially this one woman, tried to tell the judge and attorneys of their convictions and strong opinions on the case (really cheesy hamming it up type.) I told them I had the time since I wasn't working atm and a recent college grad. Everyone else looked at me with pity in their eyes. I guess they thought I was a shoe-in for the jury. Afterward, we were sent into the backroom and waited for their decision on who was to stay. The woman was adamant that she was biased enough in her replies that she'd be let go. She also made it a point to say that I'd most likely get picked. They all basically spent the rest of the time complaining about how sucky it would be if they had to stay for jury duty. I just commented on how it'd be a good opportunity to make a little money since I wasn't working then, lol. After 15 minutes, we got sent back out. Ironically, she got picked and I was let go.
- RavagedSoul, on 11/13/2009, -0/+6And the standard of proof in a criminal case is "beyond a reasonable doubt". Whether or not this is a valid level of "proof", it is the standard, and is very far from absolute.
- grnicon, on 11/13/2009, -0/+6I was on a jury once, and the selection process was nothing but a bunch of people that were looking for a way to get out.
The defendant was white, male and was being charged for drug trafficking. Anyway, one black woman says "I don't like white people" another guy says "he looks guilty" a few other people squirm out of it by giving some flimsy-ass reason such as "I don't think I could be impartial." These people made up the majority that were there that day. Isn't that nice to know? That over half the population are deeply anti-American, or completely ignorant of what America is about? - UV0001, on 11/13/2009, -1/+7Well, then don't say that you'll "always" return a not guilty verdict. Just say that you believe in your right of Jury Nullification and that if you believe that the case warrants it, you will uphold your right to it.
Saying you'll always give a not guilty verdict is contempt of court because you're pretty much saying you're going to ignore the evidence as a juror. But if you say that you will judge accordingly but still will uphold your right of jury nullification they can't bust you because you're still gonna do your job as a juror. They'll still dismiss you though because they all don't like jury nullification. - joeTaco, on 11/13/2009, -0/+6Here in Canada I've been called for jury duty twice and had to get out of it both times, using (omg) the truth. First time was during the university semester, and I was a full-time student. So I told them that, they asked for my student number, and I was off the hook. Second time was while I had a full-time job and couldn't afford the loss of wages, so they asked me for a signed letter from my employer stating that I wouldn't be compensated for time off due to jury duty. Getting out of jury duty is pretty easy if it's actually necessary for you, and you're not just being a lazy douche. In Canada at least.
- JackSchittt, on 11/13/2009, -2/+8"I get paid my normal salary for doing Jury Duty, and I've done it in the past. So I don't take a financial loss for JD..."
And how differently would you feel if you *didn't* get paid your normal salary for serving? How differently would you feel if you suddenly fell behind on the rent/bills by a large margin because you got stuck on a long (or even mid-length) trial and lost hundreds of dollars of pay?
"What the hell is wrong with doing your civic duty? I figure that if every person with a job tries to get out of jury duty, that leaves the elderly, housewives, and the unemployed. You need people like us to balance out the Jury ranks."
I have no problems "doing my civic duty". I do have a problem when doing that civic duty means I can't make the rent that month, especially when I don't have a choice in the matter. I would agree with your position 100% of the government paid jurors the amount of money they lost by not showing up for work. Not every employer pays their employees for time served on jury duty, and not every area pays jurors anywhere near what they need to live on -- if they pay the jurors at all.
"Think about it, if you were on trial, how intelligent would you like your jurors to be??"
I wouldn't want to be judged by 12 people who are still pissed off at the fact that they've got to waste two weeks of their lives sitting in that box. I wouldn't want to be judged by 12 people who are too preoccupied with what's going to happen at work, how their kids are doing, and how they're going to pay the rent because of the lost money.
There should be professional jurors. I'd rather be heard by a reasonalby intelligent individual who is being paid a decent wage to sit there and focus on the case, instead of being heard by a reasonably intelligent individual who has too much going on in his head to be able to focus on my case. - joeTaco, on 11/13/2009, -0/+5what country are you in, 1town? Getting paid your normal wages would be fantastic.
- Forumgod, on 11/13/2009, -1/+6For anyone who doesn't want to read:
- Don't lie, but still make it sound dramatic and add some lies to the truth
- Speak up and try to manipulate people with the above
- Abuse peoples sense of compassion, play the mom-has-cancer card and the I-won't-be-able-to-pay-my-rent card
- (Hopefully) get out of jury duty with the above - darkened, on 11/13/2009, -0/+5You need to have conviction when you say it otherwise it would be obvious you're just trying to make something up.
Of course if you want an easier one you just have to notice the defendant is a certain stereotype and say something like "I'm glad to be a juror all _____ are criminals and I'll be glad to help get another ____ off the street." - miquonranger031, on 11/13/2009, -0/+5"I don't really think that it's fair for me to be on a jury because I can read thoughts."
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzusuXSj8Y0 if you don't know what that's from) - dumptaker, on 11/13/2009, -0/+5Why do people with company-paid jury duty leave hate jury duty so much? It's a day (or several) off from the hustle and bustle of work. Your mind gets a chance to recharge. You get to read a good book. You are performing your duties as a citizen.
I love jury duty. - sinurgy, on 11/13/2009, -0/+5I discovered that jury duty is actually a good place to meet chicks!
- mikemil828, on 11/13/2009, -0/+5//How does Jury duty work in the states anyway?//
Nearly everyone who drives a car gets called up for jury duty once every few years or so, you generally have no say on whether or not you will serve, but you can delay it until it is more convenient and companies are obliged to allow you to take time off to serve, but ultimately, unless you have some sort good reason why you shouldn't serve (like if you are a cop), when you get a jury summons you are expected to eventually show up in court. - bobartig, on 11/13/2009, -0/+5The jury is the "conscience of the community". If the community doesn't know anything about the law, or investigations, then the jury should represent that. That's why they choose 6-12 of them from the pool of EVERYONE, instead of just having a second judge or lawyer deliberate the case.
- KibblesnBitts, on 11/13/2009, -0/+5The no Homers club - we can't have more than one.
- Hetman, on 11/13/2009, -0/+5Deadlines. I know the employeer has to officially let you off for jury duty. However if there is a project at work that you have to do and it is on a time scale. Then sometimes you just cannot leave that long.
- woofers07, on 11/13/2009, -0/+4There are actually people out there who want to be on jury duty. Those are the people who I'd want on my jury if ever needed, not someone who's solely doing out of obligation and would rather be at their own job surfing Digg.
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