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83 Comments
- rocknog, on 11/07/2009, -2/+56Blood shouldn't be a factor here. Culture isn't based on genetics. Culture stems from upbringing, and I wish more people would remember that. You want your kid to carry on cultural traditions? Well teach him those traditions, and he will carry them on regardless of his genetic makeup.
Hell, I gotta admit here, I feel a tinge of remorse on this front. Both my father and my grandfather are official members of the Seminole tribe, though you'd never guess it to look at them. And recently, it's become something of a major issue. My dad and my granddad never got along, but the fact that my dad is getting up there in years combined with my grandfather's recent stroke has really driven my dad's focus on his heritage, and all of this has really made me realize that I know virtually nothing of my own heritage.
I just... you know, I never even really understood my own heritage and culture, because I wasn't brought up with that. But as I get older, I myself begin to see the position of both my father and my grandfather. I know virtually nothing of Seminole culture, and no one would guess I was part Seminole simply by looking at me, but more and more, I realize that I want to preserve the culture and traditions of my ancestors, and I don't like the idea of all of this ending with me simply because I fully embrace my "white" identity and completely forget that both my father and grandfather were Seminole. - iheartbakon, on 11/08/2009, -0/+20Blood quantum? Is that like midichlorians or something?
- anoncowardly, on 11/08/2009, -1/+18Being in a family with people of light skinned European descent, people with Hispanic descent, people with East Asian descent, and people with Native American descent I find it interesting that this man wants to preserve his culture by having his son marry "Native American", yet his own tribal heritage is Umatilla and Yakama. There is no such single thing as "Native American" culture, just as there is no such single thing as "White" culture. Since as long ago as I can remember, that is what America is... the melting-pot. Furthermore, when will we all be called "Native American"... my family has been here for at least 5 generations... maybe more? The Italians were not always Italian. The Pakistanis were not always Pakistanis.
- jaytek13, on 11/08/2009, -3/+18I was once beaten up by a group of blacks for my money
I was once surrounded by 10 white bums asking for change
Storytime is fun - TechnoRabbit, on 11/08/2009, -3/+18Learn your ***** history. Treaties were signed. Among these treaties were clauses that stated that the government would set land aside for tribes and give them money in exchange for making peace and also in exchange for their native lands.
If you want to stop paying for the Natives then you should give them their land back. Don't want to lose Las Vegas? ***** abide by the treaties.
The money the natives get is not reparations, they're payouts from treaties. Remember that the tribes are nations within the US and are not a complete part of the US. - Ghostalker, on 11/08/2009, -2/+16Sure, the same way blacks marrying whites threatens the culture of Africa... /s
- spookyttws, on 11/08/2009, -3/+17I don't think race should be a factor when you fall in love, but I do have 2 opinions on it. 1) Almost every mixed race kid I've ever met is amazingly attractive. 2) The US government likes to ***** over native Americans, and whole tribes have been denied recognition because their ancestors intermarried with white settlers a hundred years ago.
- Junkyarddawg, on 11/08/2009, -2/+15Absolutely right. "Blood" and "race" are ***** concepts no matter who uses them.
@Submissivedeath: No. You're completely and utterly wrong. Culture always comes first, and only, because it's all there is. There is no gene for "cherokee". - Junkyarddawg, on 11/08/2009, -1/+9Cultures have no intrinsic value. The well-being of the individuals is all there is; a culture is simply a vehicle to achieve that. If the vehicle no longer serves its purpose or there are other vehicles which do a better job, it should be discarded.
- trevor98, on 11/08/2009, -3/+10Buried for racism. The fictional idea of gentic race (co-variance of genotypes) has nothing to do with learned behaviors of culture. Equating culture to race is just wrong and lazy. If the point is to keep the culture alive then you can do that through learning. If the point is to keep skin color, hair type, or other phenotypes around then that is, by definition, racism.
- WhiteMinority, on 11/08/2009, -0/+6Coming from a media and society that has been actively promoting race mixing for at least two decades, I find this sudden concern over the preservation of an individual culture ironic to put it mildly.
- robinthehood, on 11/08/2009, -0/+6All races should be smartening up to the fact that it is now a "Human Culture" and has been since the dawn of the internet. Subcultures, whether one likes it or not, are going to phase out with time.
Yes, there will always be purists, but for the most part humanity is moving towards a world culture. - gfryesc, on 11/08/2009, -0/+5yep, this story is racist. When are we going to stand up to every sacred cow culture about their open racism and apply the same standard across the board?
- andreo, on 11/08/2009, -1/+6At what point do we stop being (insert your favorite race here) and just start being humans?
- billalbertson, on 11/08/2009, -1/+6I find myself feeling sorry for the guy's son as I read this article. I am, from both sides of my family's reckoning, both "white" and "Mexican". Culturally, I was raised as latino, but look white to anybody on the street. Because neither side of my family could come to terms with their expectations of race, I found myself a stranger to both worlds, and not very welcome in either. What neither side understood was that culture is what you are raised with, and the society you live with, and not what you look like. My best friend's family were a bunch of Apache bikers and race car drivers, and included me in their family when my own didn't want or understand me. I took on their values because they accepted me unconditionally, and didn't put any limitations on me when I had to leave or needed space. It is not like I would ever expect to be "Apache" (wtf is that, they would say, and I'd agree, but then there is the title of this article we are commenting on...), but I was closer to them than anyone else, and if they had been in touch with their language and more into res culture, I would have picked that up as well.
Nations that want to survive in the long term need to come to an understanding that it doesn't matter how much blood anyone has, it is how much they live in the ways, behavior and language of the people who accept them. That, and the people need to accept new members again, like most of the nations used to before the treaties. If folks don't find acceptance where they are, they will find it where it is offered instead, or at least go where they are not penalized as much for who their parents / lovers / kids are (which is why a lot of folks leave the res- I mean, aside from the rampant poverty, etc, that many nations still face). - curtisag, on 11/08/2009, -1/+6The Oregonian should be ashamed of itself for promoting racism.
- inactive, on 11/08/2009, -0/+4so if i submitted and article of white people try to preserve there race that would be racist right?
- StopBanninMePlz, on 11/08/2009, -1/+5So because some white dudes that died hundreds of years ago signed some papers with some brown dudes that died hundreds of years ago so we should give one race preferential treatment over another?
The past is over its time to move on. Yes we stole their land BFD that's how most countries were formed. - Suricou, on 11/08/2009, -0/+4But on the other hand, if you choose the former you get casino money.
- frisk415, on 11/09/2009, -0/+4The only way to truly preserve Native American culture is to preserve its languages. Schools that teach in Navajo, Sioux, Blackfoot etc. should be available or required on reservation lands, like what the Catalan, Gallego, and Basque governments have done in Spain.
- inactive, on 11/08/2009, -3/+7@pgoetz
Humans share 50% of the same DNA with bananas
Chimpanzes and Humans have 98% of the same DNA
In short, you're an idiot. - LegendX, on 11/08/2009, -2/+6The united states is funny. We pillaged through there land and claimed it our own. Killed many. Branded a name "savage" Once we were done we put them on reservations and now we go around saying Oh don't marry them or have babies with them, there cultural heritage is at stake! Really.... does it really matter now?
BTW Culture is not blood its a way of life. - pgoetz, on 11/08/2009, -2/+6So, this is why 2 groups of people derived from the same genetic base always have precisely the same cultures, say like the Native Americans in 1700 and the Han Chinese in Beijing at the same time? As an expert in genetics, I presume you do realize that two blond-haired, blue-eyed Swedes living next door to each other have a greater genetic variability (assuming they're not twins) than the average difference between everyone living in Sweden and everyone living in Somalia?
- billalbertson, on 11/08/2009, -0/+4Each tribe often has their own separate treaty and retains their own individual status as a domestic dependent nation. So, yes, they have the right to each make up their own purity laws, and often do depending upon their situation. Some nations haven't done so well, and are dying out- some of their laws literally allow tribal members to supersede the rights of an individual family and keep their children on the reservation. Others have done too well, and gotten greedy and don't want to spread the wealth, and have kicked other members out for various reasons, often along genealogical lines. The amount of standing the BIA has over these rules depends on the treaty signed and under the circumstances historically surrounding that specific treaty.
- TechnoRabbit, on 11/08/2009, -0/+4Hundreds of years ago? Try the 70s. As in 37 years ago.
Wow. That's so ***** long. *****. Again, learn your ***** history. - sTiKyt, on 11/08/2009, -0/+3People die too, doesn't always mean it's a good thing.
- publiclurker, on 11/08/2009, -1/+4but it's OK for some groups to be racist. Didn't you get the memo?
- Suricou, on 11/08/2009, -0/+3For legal purposes, blood will do. Just because it's convenient. Courts could spend weeks arguing if an individual is 'native enough' culturally, but you can't so easily argue over a mathematical measure.
Same reason for age limits in law: Because it's a lot easier than asking courts to determine how mature someone is. - zeabu, on 11/08/2009, -0/+3Don't understand you getting buried. For ***** sake, people STILL care about race, tribes and all that trash. We're one step away from a global town, and still people want to find differences with the man next door.
Who gives a *****, indeed. - grungegbunny, on 11/08/2009, -2/+5We're all going to be a shade of brown in 500 years anyways. The way I see it all human 'races' face extinction due to globalization. I'm cool with that.
- lazybuoy, on 11/08/2009, -0/+3Agree with your point about people, along with their environment, determining culture. People determine culture, then culture propagates itself through its people. People of a certain genetic makeup will always feel kinship with the culture of their ancestors, no matter how far away from their homeland they've traveled. One only has to look at the ethnic enclaves scattered across the US to know that is true. Even second and third generation immigrants, no matter how assimilated, have a chance propagate their culture, as long as their genetic heritage remains intact.
Take away the people, and the culture can no longer exist. - lazybuoy, on 11/08/2009, -2/+5Did you ever think that maybe you felt no connection to Seminole culture is because you look like a white guy? Suppose that your parents never told you of your Seminole heritage. Would you ever feel the need to connect with it? The only reason that you felt the need to connect with the culture of your ancestors because you found out along the way that you have a tinge of seminole blood. In other words, because of genetics.
- sTiKyt, on 11/08/2009, -0/+2I think that culture discovered is worth more than culture inherited, if more people were to discover Native American culture there would be no reason for traditional bloodlines to remain (at least in a pure sense.)
- zeabu, on 11/08/2009, -0/+3avvavaroa: you're a *****... we left our native culture behind so long ago. We don't consider ourselves celts, saxons, vandals, etc. Why can't you too, and form part of the multi-ethnic meltpot?
- MrSteamTank, on 11/08/2009, -0/+2Must be different in the US because I lived in Canada for 18 years as a "white latino" and never felt as an outsider. Maybe it just doesn't affect me as much because my family is very small and not as integrated as in the Mexican community.
- theBean42, on 11/08/2009, -4/+6Yes. Get over it.
- inactive, on 11/08/2009, -0/+2Can you imagine how much it would suck if we did all turn a shade of brown? Im happy with the way things are. Sure theres racism but you got beautiful,blonde,blue eyed Swedish girls to tan,voluptuous Brazilian bombshells.
- Equinamin, on 11/08/2009, -0/+2But our religious beliefs of welcoming all still prevails. In Canada, the past has blood segregated the women
from the clans if married a " white man." Matriarchal societies understand the sacrifices they make to love all
men regardless of race, color or creed. Indeed, eh?
Do you agree? - Suricou, on 11/08/2009, -0/+1Yes.
And this is not a bad thing. I see no reason to preserve the practice of their ancient superstitious ways. They are properly documented, and this is sufficient. - zeabu, on 11/08/2009, -0/+1Europe's fate has been decided on years ago. in 1958 to be exactly. That day was already decided who will be part of it, and who won't. Turkey and Russia and everything between them, and the current union WILL be one day part of that EU, maybe not in 2020, or 2040, but it will one day. Want it or not.
- rcguy69, on 11/09/2009, -0/+1Our white ancestors messed up big time giving 'eternal' rights to land and 'eternal' freedom from taxation to 'natives'. They didn't think it through. To their bigoted minds they could not conceive of Natives mating with white women or white men. There are few or no pure natives in North America. Since when do people get freedom from taxation as a birthright? My ancestors were slaughtered and driven from Europe and then murdered by invading American militias in Quebec. There are lots of crocodile tears for natives but none for anyone else. Everyone's family tree contains a nightmare of butchery, rape and murder. Either we're all equal or we're not.
- GhostRidr, on 11/09/2009, -0/+1"Enough" Indian blood is not what it takes to be Cherokee. It takes having an ancestor on the Dawes Roll listed as Cherokee. That's it.
- tao52nyc, on 11/08/2009, -1/+2*****. This country has all sizes shapes and colors. But they're not all rushing to intermarry. Racial/ethnic groups still tend to band together where they live, more often than not.
I work at an office where the higherups rant on and on about "diversity awareness". Then I see who sits with who in the company cafeteria. Right.
We'll still have "races" 500 years from now. We'll all play nice and sing kumbaya, but "races" will still exist. - thansveld85, on 11/08/2009, -0/+1Just to keep things educated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups - GhostRidr, on 11/09/2009, -0/+1zeabu, just because you do something your way does not mean someone else has to do it. The European immigrants have been trying to tell the American Indians HOW to be Indian, WHAT makes an Indian, and WHY their views are the best. And yeah, you may have left your culture behind, but the American Indians where here when you got off the boat, and they are still here, still being told how they should be all these years later.
- Kronos6948, on 11/08/2009, -0/+1I'm 1/4 Cherokee.
I drive well over rough terrain. But only 1/4 of the time. - nicc, on 11/08/2009, -0/+1my niece is only 1/4 Indian (I believe Powhatan) and she qualifies for scholarships at college...
- inactive, on 11/08/2009, -2/+3Yes, and who owns the media?
The most racist and hypocritical people of all.
The British colonies have been lost.
The next 15 years will determine the fate of Europe forever. - StopBanninMePlz, on 11/08/2009, -2/+3***** if you were born here you're just as much a native american as any damn indian.
- ASSASSYN360, on 11/08/2009, -5/+6{POLL} Digg me if you met someone claiming to be part Native American or have a full blood Native American grandma. {POLL}
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