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48 Comments
- ubernerd845, on 02/07/2008, -5/+34DRM on e-books=retarded.
DRM has no place on peoples property, yet alone in libraries. Please stop ramming it down peoples throats. - GCarden, on 02/07/2008, -1/+16My local library will allow the download of audiobooks, with just one caveat: you have to have a Windows Media Player enabled device to play back the DRM. Great, now how about the 80% of us who own iPods? My tax dollars at work...
- gyrfalcon, on 02/07/2008, -4/+14DRM just doesn't have a place.
- columb, on 02/07/2008, -1/+11KICK DRM!!!!
- ralmoritz, on 02/07/2008, -2/+10Thankfully, we don't yet have this problem here in South Africa. But around here, businesses and non-profits alike all worship MS, so it's bound to just be a matter of time :(
- autosovereign, on 12/06/2008, -3/+11I live 30 miles south of Boston so I'll see if I can be there
- ggnictee, on 02/07/2008, -5/+11but this is one of the few situations where drm actually makes sense. The point of drm is that the person giving you the content keeps some ownership/control. When you're borrowing something or renting, that makes sense.
If I buy a cd; I should be able to do anything I want with it. I bought it. But if I rent it, then drm actually makes sense in this instance. Because the person giving it to me isn't purporting to give me any ownership rights, but instead is keeping them to himself and letting me borrow the content, with whatever restrictions he'd like to put on them.
I'm very against drm on products. I don't think you can justify calling it 'selling' if you're not giving me all the property rights. However; in the case of libraries, they're not selling anything. It's their stuff. They can do anything they want with it. - skeletorcares, on 02/08/2008, -1/+5The only people that like DRM are the ones who don't know what it is.
- Kippy236, on 02/07/2008, -1/+4This is the only place in which DRMs should be allowed. (Not like you paid for it). If you want to get literal: the taxes you pay would allow you to check out maybe 1/2 a book.
- FLLawLibrarian, on 02/07/2008, -2/+5That has got to be the most stupid comment I have read today. Obviously you have no clue how things actually work. It is not the libraries, it is the tax payers and the people you put in office that tell the libraries what or how to do things. Particularly when it comes to public libraries. You want things changed, then get up out of your chair and go talk to you city council member or the library board.
- johnsu01, on 02/08/2008, -0/+3A representative of the BPL has commented with their reasoning on my blog post about the story: http://johnsu01.livejournal.com/212943.html?view=2 ...
- solid12345, on 02/07/2008, -2/+4You want no DRM? Check out a book and read instead of listening to it you lazy retards!
- harlowsmonkeys, on 02/07/2008, -1/+3Yes, they are supposed to make available to everyone, but serially, not in parallel.
- lordtyros, on 02/07/2008, -4/+6Music and Video Rentals
- rlmorgan, on 02/07/2008, -1/+3Will there be a blog or forum thread somewhere covering the action in Boston?
- smackhero, on 02/07/2008, -1/+3you should raise the issue with the library staff. if that doesn't work, take it to the city council.
- NJank, on 02/07/2008, -1/+2sorry, the state police frown on me reading a novel while doing 70 on I95 on my way to DC. I can, however, put it on my MP3 player or put it in a CD. Ignorant retard.
- Greg, on 02/07/2008, -2/+3The problem with this sort of protest is that its the contracts of the content providers and the publishers that brings DRM into the equation. Libraries subscribe to the services of these content providers - in the case of Boston, NYPL, etc. they use Overdrive, another popular provider used by my local library is NetLibrary. The library apportions a part of their budget to subscribe to these services for patrons; the content offered is all provided by independent companies with contracts with these publishers.
Libraries don't control the DRM, and they have little if any say. There are no services that offer DRM-free content through libraries because it makes little sense for the publishers to agree to that. Regardless, its not the library which is at fault, but rather Overdrive. At best protesting the library would cause them to drop the subscription to the service; unfortunately the DRM-free alternative doesn't exist. The way Overdrive works is that libraries subscribe to the service and patrons gain access to it; it isn't the direct action of the library, and the library doesn't have the option to disable DRM, even if they'd like to.
If you're going to protest, protest Overdrive, not Boston Public Library. - mutiger, on 02/07/2008, -2/+3Too bad it conflicts with world demonstrations against scientology. ;/
- daradib, on 02/09/2008, -0/+1Or those who profit from practices like vendor-lockin (i.e. Apple with iTunes music store). But what goes around comes around, so iPods are at a disadvantage because a lot of the music in libraries uses Microsoft DRM that does not support iPods.
- inactive, on 02/07/2008, -1/+2watch out you dont wear that triangle logo thingy from defective by design. the Boston bomb squad might blow you up.
- Coffeedemon, on 02/07/2008, -1/+2Whats that? Weeding a collection that has outgrown its confines and is probably out of date in terms of its content too? Actually a lot of them donate to other countries and to literacy programs inside their own cities and countries. Varies from place to place though. But if they did burn an old math book from 1978 (collections of reference works are more dated than fiction) would it really be that big of a deal?
- NJank, on 02/07/2008, -1/+2they likely subscribe to an online service such as www.overdrive.com or something. So, the library doesn't control the format, just who they subscribe to. And there aren't many other options.
- omarciddo, on 02/07/2008, -3/+4Sorry. I'm all for removing DRM from items that you actually *OWN*, but not from a library or other service where you are essentially *RENTING* content. See the difference? Taking the DRM out of library-owned audiobooks would be the same as trying to justify keeping the regular books you check out just because you can check it out for free. Sorry, DRM does have a place there.
- scolford, on 02/08/2008, -0/+1Hey, thanks for reading our response. I know that DRM is frustrating to everyone, but I'm just not sure that scrapping a new, popular service will help anyone.
- sirhomer, on 02/10/2008, -0/+1Dugg. Leave the DRM out of the library.
- Dakk, on 02/07/2008, -1/+2Libraries are the consumers in this case, they're the innocent bystander that has no choice ... why not protest NetLibrary/OCLC or Audible. They're examples of big companies that have locked up sole use licenses for electronic distribution of materials for Libraries. Patron demand for electronic formats is increasing, but there are no DRM free offerings for libraries to utilize. The Libraries are getting stuck with DRM solutions just like their patrons.
- eteepell, on 02/08/2008, -1/+2I checked out the above article.
"
Almost all of the titles available through OverDrive are also available in other formats. Customers who are unable to use DRM-protected content can certainly access the same content via CDs, DVDs, print books, and magnetic media. We also provide links to several other sources for digital eBooks, audio, and video that are in the public domain, and therefore do not require DRM.
"
good 'nuff. - mattlee, on 02/08/2008, -0/+1Yeah, we'll have something on http://defectivebydesign.org/
- Dakk, on 02/07/2008, -1/+1NetLibrary/OCLC product subscribed to by your local library. Not your library's fault that NetLibrary locked in as a sole distributor and only offers Windows-based DRM.
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- Coffeedemon, on 02/07/2008, -1/+1They're all archived somewhere and a lot of these archives will be going digital in time. Every public library does not need to keep a copy.
- elscorcho717, on 02/08/2008, -1/+1I live right around the corner from Copley square and I won't be there =)
- andycr512, on 02/07/2008, -3/+3You make some good points, and they are things that have occurred to me in the past as well. One problem with DRM on rental items is incompatibilities with existing hardware and software. However, I think the reason that this is even an issue is that the nature of information in a world where infinite copying is the norm goes against the concept of treating information as property. You can create an abstraction where infinite information is treated as finite property and a given number of copies can be sold, as the USA has - but that is not how it really is. Information is infinite, and as such when you treat it as though it were limited for the purpose of securing profits for the people who authored the information, it can only make sense up to a certain point. When you get to the more complicated concepts of true property - lending, resale, and so on - the abstraction breaks down, and it becomes very difficult to create a metaphor which imitates what true property does.
- Dakk, on 02/07/2008, -1/+1Your argument falls flat when you realize that the companies that provide DRM laced services to libraries are just middlemen. They've secured sole rights to distribute the electronic versions of materials specifically to libraries. They "package" the materials into a DRM format that facilitates a library distribution plan. Libraries link to that company's servers to distribute the DRM'd materials. There is no 100+ years and books disappear from being accessible to anyone. The materials still exist in the publisher's hands and are thus preserved to eventually go into the ultimate DRM free format... public domain.
- eteepell, on 02/07/2008, -2/+2Point taken, but there is a bit of a slippery slope here. Keep in mind the inherent issues with DRM, it will play on this device not that,
provisions to self destruct in so many days, key revocation without prior warning, need for proprietary software to use, only available
for windows, etc.etc.
Imagine a new real world book lending service, available to everyone simultaneously. All books are available at any time for the standard
period of time a library would loan a normal book (~2 weeks) and no overdue charges.
Now this is what happens, you take the book on loan, it is chained and locked to your car (supports only Ford Taurus currently), it can only
by moved up to 5 feet from the car, fingerprint recognition is required to open the book. There are provisions for incendiary self-destruct
after the loan time has expired or at any time when a self-destruct code is recieved wirelessly. Please do not read book near pets or children.
As you expect I am anti-DRM. Better to have books be books rather than locked down ebooks which cannot be read where you want and on what
you want. and what happens to these ebooks in 100+ years? scary. - spamfiltre, on 02/07/2008, -1/+1Some of you don't seem to realize that libraries don't have a choice in the matter. There are only a handful of vendors offering downloadable audio book/ebook/music/video services, and they *all* use windows DRM. Why? The publishers insist on it to protect their IP. Apple won't play with libraries for iTunes downloads for cardholders, so no luck there. Libraries would prefer not to make you jump through hoops to get this content, but their hands are tied. Protest DRM all you want, but until you negotiate distribution contracts with publishers, and develop a DRM-free download service that they will allow you to use, don't complain.
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http://www.chasr.org/ - douglsmith, on 02/08/2008, -0/+0Our local library has been moving away from audio books on CD to electronic versions. But because of DRM issues, you have to also check out and use their lousy audio player. And there is more of a wait to get titles because of constrained quantities of the players.
They later added the ability to load materials on certain players of your own if it supports a Microsoft DRM system. No matter if the majority of patrons own iPods. They're simply not allowed.
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http://www.generics.ws/products/viewImage/898/424/ ... - FreeDeb, on 02/07/2008, -5/+4Except that libraries are public institutions not businesses. Their goal is to make media available to everyone, which is why we put our tax dollars into them.
Furthermore, DRM on library materials ensures that only people with certain devices and operating systems are able to access resources that we are all paying for. Publicly funded libraries have no business encouraging the purchase of certain software or devices. - bxblox, on 02/07/2008, -2/+1do they ask to see ur player or is it just the only format provided?
- schestowitz, on 02/07/2008, -8/+7It's funny how libraries do the book-burning at the end (willfully).
- Coffeedemon, on 02/07/2008, -2/+1Any incompatibilities should be the main crux of the argument against DRM in libraries. They aren't in the business of giving you *copies* of the items they lend but they are in the business of providing you free *access* to any information held in their collection. If DRM stands in the way of this access it goes against the ethos at the heart of the public library system.
/Librarian. - StormyAaron, on 02/07/2008, -2/+1Yes, "The books remind us what asses and fools we were." The only way to save the past (even if it's a math text book) so that we may learn from the past is to keep them around. By burning the books you are taking away from the past, and it's lessons. If we are to prevent the mistakes of the past from happening today and tomorrow we must keep these sources around.
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