What is Digg?621 Comments
- Ajjah, on 08/19/2008, -27/+141Without religion, America would not have the atrocious lack of knowledge about Science. Over 50% of the population believes in Intelligent Design, and that Evolution is false?
- jeremyduffy, on 08/19/2008, -29/+127"To completely circumvent logic in the place of religious belief is denying the very thing that makes you able to worship, your brain."
This guy is right on. I've always said that "to believe in something with NO PROOF is idiotic". Keep in mind that people can have personal proof such as they believe in ghosts because they've had recurring dreams for years where they talked to their dead mother and learned things only she could know. I would at least respect that belief even if I didn't believe it myself.
But to say that you took a "leap of faith" is to say you had "your way with logic and truth" for the sake of feeling more comfy about the universe and your place in it. - Misterberu, on 08/20/2008, -9/+92As a person who's currently living in a Muslim country, take it from me, no good can from religion on modern-day Earth. The current people in power here used religious propaganda to get where they are, and have been doing so for a long time. My government is, without a doubt, being run by fascists, and what was once a great country, in a mere 70 years, has been transformed into a country were religion is supreme, censorship is everywhere (we no longer have access to YouTube) and the government feels that they can monitor everything you do, and if they deem appropriate, can come into your home in the middle of the night and drag you away to a police precinct.
...people like the ones I just described can only do these things by using religion to get support from the more ignorant citizens out there. While I don't deny the fact that Religion was once a benefit to mankind, it isn't anymore, simply because we know so much, that by believing in religion we alienate ourselves from known facts... in other words, if you really believe in religion right now then all you're doing is putting your hands over your ears, closing your eyes and screaming:
"NOT THERE! NOT THERE!"
Just 'cause you believe in something doesn't make it not true, and just because you believe in something doesn't make it true. What I know will always be better than what you believe. - luzai, on 08/19/2008, -21/+89Imagine
- inactive, on 08/19/2008, -9/+68No proof? Hell, there's no evidence. That's what boggles my mind. It's not like "Hey, I had a talk with a dude who claimed to be the Son of God, and he said all these really profound things and performed miracles that I can't explain. I can't prove he's the Son of God, but I have reason to believe he is." It's "I read in a book about some guy 2,000 years ago who claims to have met someone who claims to be the Son of God."
That's what I don't get. Why on Earth would anyone be so sure of something based on third-hand accounts? I mean, if someone claims to have had a personal experience, completely unrelated to any religious text, that is the origin of their personal beliefs, I may be suspicious of their claims, but certainly, I would not fault them for their beliefs. I mean, I think that would be a perfectly natural reaction to being faced with something you can't explain. But no one in this day and age has any such experiences - they just go along with whatever their pastor tells them. - EatingPie, on 08/19/2008, -43/+98While there are certainly evils done in the name of religion -- that certainly includes Christianity -- the article erroneously assumes it's all bad.
* Slavery in England was ended due to work of William Wilberforce, a Christian who concluded that within his religious belief slavery was wrong.
* Martin Luther King fought for Civil Rights built upon his belief in God, and that God created all men equal. He worked as a *Christian pastor* for civil rights.
* Programs like Alcoholics Anonymous and The Salvation Army, which have helped millions, are Christian based -- the 12 steps are literally pulled straight from the Bible.
* The statement "all men are created equal" pre-supposes the existence of God, and has no meaning if you remove a creator from the equation.
Francis A Schaeffer also gives a three-fold logical argument for the existence of God, involving Metaphysics, Morality and Epistemology. The Moral argument in particular is an iff (if and only if), meaning that morality requires the existence of God, and vice versa.
-Pie - inactive, on 08/19/2008, -23/+74
Imagine a world without religion......ANY religion. Man, that'd be GREAT. No major outbreak of pedophilia or mass murder in the "Name of God". Trains and buses would live out their service lives WITHOUT exploding. People wouldn't be so willfully ignorant. Science would flourish. Freedom would reign supreme.
Why do humans insist on being so willfully ignorant and refuse to take their rightful place as the only deities upon this planet? - Haoie, on 08/19/2008, -18/+67People from around the world would get along a lot better without religious divide.
- inactive, on 08/20/2008, -4/+53Really? Then why hasn't the entire atheist population committed suicide?
- alphgeek, on 08/20/2008, -3/+49People managed to love each other before Jesus came along. People who don't follow Christianity manage to love each other all the time.
It's arrogant, as well as factually incorrect, to suggest that Christians have a monopoly on love and compassion. - curtisag, on 08/20/2008, -5/+47Your logic sucks dude. Religion is definitely right up your alley.
1) Horrible ideologies and insane rulers caused that harm, not atheism.
2) You don't have to believe in god to have a good sense of morality. It's a pretty simple thing to figure out in most cases. What intentionally hurts others is bad, what helps them is good.
3) I don't need to believe in santa claus to have fun at Christmas, therefore I don't need another fake guy to believe in to have a good life.
4) When you die you will also be dust, you just don't know it (or can't bring yourself to admit your inner doubts).
5) To declare there is a God necessitates you know everything about the universe. Given there's no evidence something as powerful as God exists, it's highly unlikely he does exist. He would make his presence known. Science can explain most things we don't know. - inactive, on 08/20/2008, -28/+64-----------A world without God, because there really is no God, would be horrible.-----------
You are obviously a weak-minded, scared child who is so afraid of dying, that you look to some magical grandfather figure to help you through your day. You are pathetic. - DiggRational, on 08/20/2008, -4/+37That article is so poorly written, filled with errors (without religion AIDS would be controlled by a condom? please, study the subject before you spout ridiculousness like that), and so overly simplistic.
I'm and atheist, and am also against religion because it is a construct of irrationality. But at least I can understand that religion is merely a means to an end. Gender inequality does not exist because of religion, it exists because of lack of education. Wars and borders would still exist without religion because they are an outcome of 1) identity (religion is but one form of identity - wars have been started because of language, ethnicity etc) 2) geo-politics and 3) resources. The examples and reasons go on and on.
It’s funny how when people give an example of religion doing good, others say ‘yeah, well they would have done good even without religion’, yet at the same time they give an example of religion doing bad. The fact is that religion is just a vehicle – oppressors will always find another vehicle. Instead of attacking religion, we should be attacking lack of education; we should be attacking irrationality; we should be attacking weaknesses in character and logic. - alphgeek, on 08/20/2008, -3/+35"Most people see natural processes randomly creating all life as highly unlikely...and they'd be right."
What information source are you basing this assertion on? It sounds like a ludicrous assertion as it runs counter to the multitude of evidence in favour of evolution. - bananasluggy, on 08/20/2008, -13/+45In an old system, religion works as a great way of unifying a small group against a larger group--it works as a way of identifying "us" vs "them" as well as externalizing justice-keeping forces and social codes without worry that the people will rise-up against the justice keeper... after all, it lives in the sky.
If religion helps you be a better person, that's all fine and good, if nothing else can make you into a better person... if the fear of some great sky-fairy hurting you horribly in retaliation is the only reason why you don't hurt others, that's a very good thing indeed that you believe... if the fear of horrible torture forces you into being kind and accepting, generous and considerate, and you would otherwise be a backstabbing little bastard, it's a good thing you've got self-serving belief.
There'll come a time when the people who don't believe will simply stop being so nice about it all. People who have knowledge rather than faith (as in, people whose knowledge can be backed by rigorous research... and no, quoting the bible doesn't count) will eventually get tired of being hamstrung by people who have lots of "feelings" about things they know very little about.
Just because you have "faith," and lots of it, and just because you read the bible, does not mean you're on equal footing with a bio-ethicist, a physicist, a neurosurgeon, or an expert in chemistry when it comes to making the big decisions in life. It does get a little tiresome after a while, people who can quote the bible assuming that, because they can quote a lot of that bible, that they can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with people who, while blind-plastered drunk, understand more about how the world works (understand, not "have faith that god did it") than that bible-reader. It's like a five year-old whom, after reading a pamphlet about something really interesting, goes head-to-head with an expert in the field and expects not to get laughed at and patted on the head.
In all other areas, we'd toss the person with so little grasp of reality out on his ear and laugh at him. Because the person professes to "believe" we're expected to give him due time and attention? No. Sorry. But no.
It's time we let religion be religion, off in a quiet corner, out of the way of sharp objects and things that go "boom," and let everyone else get on with the whole process of advancing humanity.
Religion is a childish thing and, considering all that we can crap up in the world with the abilities we've got now, I think it's time we put childish things aside.
Aren't we adults yet? - StaticThunder, on 08/20/2008, -2/+32I see supernatural processes randomly creating a God as highly unlikely. And I'd be right.
And since I don't see life as anything other than the extension of natural processes, it doesn't seem all that unlikely to me. Citric acid cycle and central metabolism is not ALL that unlike geochemical processes. Compare it to the autocatalytic oxidation of mineral substrates such as occurs in acid mine drainage, even before the bacteria accelerate it, and its not all that exotic. - inactive, on 08/20/2008, -1/+30Why exactly would not believing in an afterlife cause someone not to have the will to live? That is just idiotic.
- ryan83189, on 08/20/2008, -7/+36People, cowards and leaders use religion as a veil for their shortcomings, hate, and dubious activities. If religion were gone it would be replaced by something almost as effective like patriotism, fear, or financial gain (The war in Iraq, patriot act). Many people have done bad things in the "name" of religion, but those people could have been coerced into it with whatever farce the bad people could come up with. Religion did not produce hate, for gays or blacks, or women, or any one really, man did. Man made religion, and use it to support their views, no matter how wrong. The crusades weren't really about reclaiming Jesus's stomping grounds, they were a turf war and a giant theft and pillage. The Quran doesn't really say that women should be treated like *****, sexist men did, they interpret it that way to fit their needs. The Bible says, love thy fellow man, yet the KKK is not obliged to do that, but misquote it to suit their needs. If you get rid of religion, you give these idiots one less thing to hide behind but you don't get rid of them. Power hungry, self important, and stupid humans existed before religion, after all, who do you think invented it?
- StaticThunder, on 08/20/2008, -4/+30You can hit them harder if you pity them than if you just insult them. And they do deserve pity. They are trapped within their own minds, enslaved by a mental virus for which they never developed an immunity and it causes them endless suffering in the sense they feel they are trapped in a dirty, sinful reality from which the only escape is a life of subservience to ancient and arbitrary rules, with only the hope of something better after they die to make it bearable. You should feel sorry for them. ;-)
- Risingashes, on 08/20/2008, -3/+29@estvir: Yes they are.
---
The thing about people who believe in religion is that they choose to suspend disbelief. It's not about convincing them that there is no God- they purposefully delude themselves so they can avoid the crushing weight of a limited existence and the sorrow that comes from losing those they care about.
You try explaining to a kid that mommy is rotting in the ground and you'd likely want to push eternal life as well. I'd much prefer to be able to believe in fairy tales and Santa Claus, I just can't. - inactive, on 08/20/2008, -2/+26Spaz, you know you've been shown how wrong you are many times before, so why do you keep at it? After we show you statistical thermodynamics and how the field demonstrates that your little improbability claim is infantile at best, an intelligent person would accept the facts - but you keep lying. Why is this? Do you get points for dishonesty and douchebaggery?
- jeremyduffy, on 08/19/2008, -3/+27Exactly. At least personal evidence is evidence and that can be debated as to what it really means, but to say something is true with no reason at all... well it's no wonder you can't have an intelligent conversation with someone like that because they don't have any evidence to argue!
- inactive, on 08/20/2008, -5/+28------------A world without religion would be terrible. Everyone would lose the will to live----------------
Wow! What a cowardly, scared little gutless Wonderboy Religion has made you.
Mad, thats really too bad
...sad - mikepictor, on 08/20/2008, -0/+23Thank you. I'm an atheist, and frequently feel religion is against the better interest of humanity, but I agree with you fully that even if much evil has been caused in its name, a lot of good has be done as well. There is no point in building an argument against without fairly considering the argument for.
- inactive, on 08/20/2008, -3/+25Wouldn't belief in an afterlife actually cause us to lose the will to live? I mean, there's another life right next to this one, so why the hell should we care about this one? It's not like it's the last we've got or anything, so what makes this one special?
- inactive, on 08/20/2008, -4/+25If that's what comforts you, Spaz, then by all means continue thinking it. You're absolutely wrong and you're kind of a presumptuous dick, but I won't prevent you from having your security blanket.
- StaticThunder, on 08/20/2008, -5/+26If people worshiped me, I'd at least have the decency to make an appearance, maybe say a few words, every so often.
- alphgeek, on 08/20/2008, -4/+24Your arguments are trite:
1/ They didn't kill because they were atheists. You are confusing causation and coincidence. Hitler was actually a Catholic, not an atheist.
2/ So it's better to have a cosmic policeman to ensure we do the right things, rather than taking responsibility for our own actions?
Would all Christians become rapists and murderers if God vanished one day? Of course not. Therefore God isn't required for moral guidance.
3/ You've pretty much hit this one on the head. There is no objective 'meaning of life'. So? Get over it.
4/ What does comfort have to do with truth? Non sequitur.
5/ Atheism doesn't necessarily mean 'belief that there is no God' - this would clearly require faith, or a state of perfect knowledge as you describe.
Atheism is more commonly used to mean 'a lack of belief in god(s)'. That is, looking at the evidence, there is no reason to posit a god for the universe to exist, much less the Christian God.
I am guessing that you do not believe in the existence of Zeus? Bhaal? Cthulhu? How can you be sure? - Rudegar, on 08/20/2008, -3/+23without religion people would just find something else to genocide each-other over
maybe who had the most neat sneakers
we invented religion so we are to blame and the things we did in the name of religion was things we wanted to do
anyway and just used religion to justify
i agree that much of religion is messed up but we need to take some responsibility too - inactive, on 08/20/2008, -5/+25"Look at all the evil perpetuated by atheists such as Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao tse-Tung, and even Hitler (who was more a pagan than anything else)."
"This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief."
-Adolph Hitler
"And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God."
-Adolph Hitler
"What we have to fight for...is the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator."
-Adolph Hitler - jman583, on 08/20/2008, -1/+21Roads.
- alphgeek, on 08/20/2008, -5/+25Great post.
It's an interesting picture you paint because I can see parallels to the way some Christian countries are using religion to try to achieve similar ends such as the surveillance society, censorship and oppressive laws. - StaticThunder, on 08/20/2008, -5/+24"Atheism = when you die, you turn into dust and NOTHING matters ever again. What a comforting thought. Think about THAT when you go to sleep tonight."
First, I do find it comforting. Anyone who thinks living forever is better than not being has never tried it. I'm serious. I can't think of anything worse than having to spend eternity with myself, except maybe having to spend it with JimmySpaza.
Secondly, Christianity = when you die, you turn to dust, and NOTHING matters again AND you spent your life living a lie. - curtisag, on 08/20/2008, -3/+21What you don't understand is that your moral beliefs are based around one single religion, a religion that most of the world does not subscribe to or believe in. It is the height of arrogance to proclaim that your God is the one and true God, and the bible is the only source of morality for the world.
And so in effect, you are no different than an atheist. You create your own morality by picking a single religion to base your entire morality around and discarding all other religions that are just as worthy. And all this is likely based upon where you grew up and what church your family made you attend. But the mere idea that your whole life has been based around a lie is too fearful an idea to even contemplate. Fear, this is the greatest source of keeping followers in line. Continue to believe, don't think for yourself, or else you will just be dust anyway.
You see, for you, lack of belief = pointless to live. Therefore, you defend your belief system with every fiber of your being, because there is one universal constant among all life. And that's that everything that lives wants to continue to live. The rat or the bird doesn't know why it wants to live, it only knows that it must at all cost. You are just more complicated in your desire to live, and we humans have created a fantastic fairy tale to relieve us of the burden of our own fears of death. - StaticThunder, on 08/20/2008, -2/+20The first *RNA* strand didn't have to be very complicated. A couple of bases would do, and of any sequence. You make a lot of assumptions Spaza.
- inactive, on 08/20/2008, -10/+28"World is flat and 2000 years old! Them libril perfessers and egsperts aint no nuthin like mah pappy done teech me!"
-JimmySpaza - StaticThunder, on 08/20/2008, -1/+19Really? If Jesus' followers were as good as the teaching, maybe you wouldn't be so reviled of late.
- Murdats, on 08/20/2008, -2/+20if religion could predict the outcomes of events and explain why that was the outcome then great, until then science will keep proving that at least within the confines of our reality that it is correct.
- inactive, on 08/20/2008, -2/+19Thinking in generalities is the sign of an intellectually lazy person. ("Liberals and atheists")
- inactive, on 08/20/2008, -2/+19Don't bother the Spaz with those pesky facts. We know that he just brushes them off and continues on his immoral, dishonest rampage.
- pinchduck, on 08/20/2008, -6/+23You really think people would stop fighting without religion? What a curious thought. Tell me, what does your car run on?
- StaticThunder, on 08/20/2008, -4/+21"God has a place of infinite happiness created for you."
Doubtful. First, doubtful heaven is even possible. But even if it is, living forever would eventually get boring. I'd either get stale, frozen into one state of being, or stop being me entirely. Either way, I'd still die from lack of novelty or identity. Besides, how can one experience infinite happiness without having less than infinite happiness to provide comparison. Wouldn't it just become the status quo, and we'd go searching for even MORE happiness?
I don't know man, I don't think I' want to spend eternity blissed out of my gourd. Sounds eternally boring.
In fact, I'm positive I don't want to live forever. It would eventually be a torment no matter how nice it appeared.
"But, at least the Christian tried just in case. ... I'm not going to chance it."
God has fun toying with people who play Pascal's wager before he damns them to eternal fire. - flashback99, on 08/20/2008, -2/+18I love it when people try to counter a sound argument of science with "read this book by blah blah blah" which to my mind is really no better than telling someone to read the bible. If the argument against science is really that strong you should at least have the decency, to give us one paragraph or at least one piece of sound reasoning as to why you are more correct in your comment and not have to cite a book.
- inactive, on 08/20/2008, -5/+21Spaz: "I don't want to believe that there isn't a magical man in the sky who thinks I'm special, so I'll ignore all reality in favor of my imaginary friend!"
- inactive, on 08/20/2008, -4/+20Did Jeebus also teach that we are to hate science and lie about it at every opportunity to try to drive people away from otherwise well-known and commonly accepted facts?
It's funny how when it suits your purpose, Jeebus only taught about love and compassion and respect - but when we turn that back around on you, Jeebus said that you're to be WARRIORS OF GAWD! Lying, hypocritical scum. - eir574, on 08/20/2008, -4/+20"See, the atheist would have to be 100% accurate to be sheltered from his decision in the next life. The Christian may be somewhat wrong in his theology, but only has to be a little bit right about God existing to make it."
The Christian only has to be a little bit right if the little bit he gets right is the critical part. If the ancient Egyptians were right, you're way wrong. If the ancient Greeks were right, you're way wrong. If a deity exists but no one has ever come close to describing him accurately, you could be way wrong. If your deity provided you with the bible as a test to see if you'd eventually reject it and has been lying to you ever since, you're way wrong. - drunkenoaf, on 08/20/2008, -2/+18Oh come on! Try and study to understand the world around you, or believe the stories of magic... I mean miracles, fed to you by a big organisation called a church?
Science and rationality FTW! - inactive, on 08/20/2008, -2/+18Improbability is not the same as impossibility, and you know this. What those awfully big words, "statistical thermodynamics," mean is that even if all the possible outcomes of an event have a probability of 1x10^150000, one of those outcomes has got to occur - probability is 1.
- baithe, on 08/20/2008, -2/+17Jimmy, I hereby nominate you for the Digg Lifetime Troll Achievement award.
- StaticThunder, on 08/20/2008, -2/+17"it's not me...it's their own conscience kicking in."
You've got an egocentric answer for everything don't you Jimmy. You must be the wisest, most arrogant person on the planet. -
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