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MacOS 10.5 Leopard Phones Home, Reveals Little Snitch 2

empowerthyself.com — Apple's Mac OS 10.5 Leopard 'loginwindow' process phones home to lcs.mac.com on port 443 which is only revealed by running the new Little Snitch 2 security monitoring tool.

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  • lxpk, on 11/11/2007, -11/+46Ironically, Digg is spying on my browsing behavior to infer if I actually read the story or not. I want to see someone traffic analyze the transmissions. If they are HTTPS, they probably contain something worth encrypting, which could be personal information.
    • dkoon, on 11/10/2007, -17/+85Welcome to digg, a site full of hypocrites. We only care when Microsoft does it, move along.
      • streak, on 11/08/2007, -7/+7Microsoft pwns digg.
        • moofer, on 11/09/2007, -6/+6It's caused by a feature that isn't on by default, and isn't mandatory. You pwn the peanuts in my *****.
      • erzz, on 11/10/2007, -5/+4This story would have 5 times the number of diggs if it was Microsoft.
        Mactards on the defensive!!!!! Mobilize your Steve Jobs halloween costumes!!!! Macbook Pro's to super overheat mode!!!! Prepare to defend the logo with your hordes of bland, ethnic looking, infomercial models!!!!!!
        • ubergeek09, on 11/10/2007, -0/+1Look at all the ignorant tools who dug down your post, I am getting sick of Digg. Way to many iTards.
    • PinkoComrade, on 11/08/2007, -1/+3Doublethink?
    • r3zonance, on 11/11/2007, -0/+6As the address ends .mac.com, it is definitely Apple's .Mac service. This is confirmed by people without .Mac setup against their login not getting this behaviour.

      This is lame, at least do research before finding "things wrong with Leopard". Okay there are some legitimate issues (such as "move") but spreading FUD doesn't help anyone, except maybe your sites traffic.
  • bofhcabbit, on 11/10/2007, -8/+48Yeah, I think it's the fact that it's transmitting encrypted data that makes me worry most of all.
    • Dolomite, on 11/08/2007, -9/+21i'd be a little more worried if my info was sent in the clear
      • digudown, on 11/09/2007, -7/+15Because Church of Steve Jobs can do no wrong? It might be transferring your personal info to someone else (Apple) so you should be worried. If it was plain text at least one could have found out if it was personal info or not.
        • Giga, on 11/08/2007, -0/+3And what if you found it was personal information sent in plain text for all to sniff?
          • mikm, on 11/08/2007, -0/+1Blocking it would be fairly trivial.
          • WiseWeasel, on 11/08/2007, -2/+2Probably similar to what happens once someone cracks this encryption and exposes the personal info contained within... (class-action lawsuit)
    • thogue, on 11/08/2007, -0/+7Clear? or not Clear? It does not bother you that you do not what what information is being sent it?

      It sure bothers me most of all. What information could they be sending out thats good for you anyway? NONE
      • oneoverzero, on 11/08/2007, -0/+4I run linux, so I don't really have much of a right to speak in this thread per se... However, it's entirely possible that they're sending statistical data, which while not /good/ for you isn't really bad either. This also could explain encrypting depending on the nature of the statistics.
    • mistafreeze, on 11/08/2007, -7/+2I do not know what data they are sending, but it could just be your apple login and password, so it can integrate with their services better, such as itunes, apple store, and dot mac
    • jjmckay, on 11/10/2007, -4/+2Yes the fact that it's encrypted says Apple has something to hide. Sent in the clear would be easier to see what is sent. Transparency is good when it comes to things like this.
  • lxpk, on 11/08/2007, -3/+5I retranslated the Russian thread about it, I forgot that I hadn't saved the Altavista Babelfish translation into the file. http://www.empowerthyself.com/files/translate.html
    • Dolomite, on 11/07/2007, -2/+1cool
    • surfing, on 11/08/2007, -1/+2Here's your story description translated via Babelfish to Russian and then back to English:

      Leopard 10.5 macOS Znonit on the telephone to house, shows few Snitch 2 telephones 10.5 "loginwindow ' leopard os of mackintosh apple's process domestic to lcs.mac.com on port 443 is only shown by way to run the new small security snitch 2 checking tool.
  • wonderchemist, on 11/11/2007, -8/+126Off the top of my head I'll guess this is how .Mac's 'Back to my Mac' feature works.

    For those unfamiliar. Back to my Mac allows you to connect back to your Mac from elsewhere. It does so though Apple's .Mac service which keeps tracks of the IP address and names of all your Macs.
    • lxpk, on 11/08/2007, -2/+13Opening the .Mac prefpane does try to connect to mac.com although not lcs.mac.com but that sounds like a likely explanation.
    • nexah3, on 11/09/2007, -16/+8That's what they want you to think..
      • lxpk, on 11/09/2007, -3/+5You might be joking but you're right, any actual hijinx would have to be transmitted steganographically behind the cover of a legitimate communication.
    • salomejones, on 11/09/2007, -2/+39That's actually exactly what it is. If you have a .mac account enabled from a previous (or the current) OS install, it will attempt an SSL connection (hence port 443) to authenticate the user with the remote .mac blob. This is really, really not a big deal.
    • rspeed, on 11/09/2007, -0/+18I was gonna say that I have been using Little Snitch in Leopard since the first version 2 beta (weeks before the release of Leopard) and I never saw this behavior. Since I don't have .Mac that would probably explain it.
      • erictheninja, on 11/09/2007, -1/+9You and I both. i haven't received this message either.
    • Firehed, on 11/09/2007, -3/+14I expect that's right; I'm not a .Mac users and thusly doesn't have Back To My Mac - and I haven't seen this connection warning, using the latest version of LS.

      So once again, an OS creates traffic that you weren't expcting, and everyone assumes the worst. It could just as easily been checking for software updates and such - in either case, GOOD traffic. Truth be told, I'm a bit more comfortable with Apple doing it than any other software maker, but that's only because they have their own additional (optional) software packages that tie in with the OS and historically have a pretty good track record.
    • theprez, on 11/08/2007, -0/+1The first thing that occurred to me was the obvious, find any leaks previous to the official launch of 10.5. But, you're probably right... I hope.
    • aduzik, on 11/08/2007, -0/+1It is definitely Back to My Mac. I guess they thought it looks suspicious because it's loginwindow, a seemingly unrelated process, making an HTTPS connection.
    • kosso, on 11/22/2007, -0/+0I do NOT have 'Back TO My Mac' active (as far as I know)
      I do NOT have my .mac details entered in Sytem Prefs
      I do NOT have file sharing on.
      I do NOT have Auto Software Updates active

      so, can you tell me why my machine IS calling lcs.mac.com

      many thanks
  • Iwantawii, on 11/13/2007, -14/+154It's probably just your password, browsing history, and all your pictures.
    • lxpk, on 11/09/2007, -6/+24I laughed out loud at work in front of my boss because of that comment.
      • Firehed, on 11/09/2007, -0/+10I'd be more concerned about browsing digg in front of your boss than laughing at a comment.
    • Faasnat, on 11/08/2007, -8/+4"....and all your pictures."

      I think it's actually all your music (which it then cross references which ones were ripped in iTunes and which ones were downloaded (not through iTMS).
    • digudown, on 11/10/2007, -1/+10And your credit card number so that uncle Jobs can charge you for all downloaded mp3's.
  • hellathatguy, on 11/09/2007, -21/+12it sounds more like an ad for little snitch 2. almost a lame infomercial.... for 4 easy payments of....
    • lxpk, on 11/08/2007, -3/+4I don't know the guy who makes Snitch but I'm pretty keen on Snitch 2 and that's hopefully what distinguishes this article from just another "look Apple can haz viruz" scare mongering. I'm frankly dissappointed that you didn't pick up on the gratuitous inclusion of EmpowerThyself.com poster pictures from Barcamp LA 4.
  • Karahna, on 11/08/2007, -16/+1The FCC probably paid apple to since there to lazy to find out on there own.
  • Rev0lver, on 11/08/2007, -13/+1Oh ****
  • CATSCEO, on 11/09/2007, -6/+1Mirror?
    • starf, on 11/08/2007, -1/+7Article:
      Apple's Mac OS 10.5 Leopard loginwindow process phones home to lcs.mac.com on port 443 which is only revealed by running the new Little Snitch 2 security monitoring tool.

      You can reproduce and deny the suspicious unauthorized outgoing packets by installing Little Snitch 2 beta 10 and rebooting. You can tell it to deny once or forever when it tries this until we discover a legitimate purpose for this transmission.

      screenshot of little snitch 2

      I googled the strings and Russian hackers are the only ones I could find who have noticed so far in this LiveJournal post which I translated into English. Here's a not entirely innapropriate picture they posted in the thread:

      What is going on exactly? Why is Apple contacting itself? Can anyone with more expertise in traffic analysis tell us what is being sent through HTTPS?
      Little Snitch 2 For The Win

      This is a potentially suspicious behavior but it does bring to our attention the importance of independent security tools like Little Snitch that are not designed by the operating system manufacturer. Without Snitch, there is no easy way for users to audit and control their computer's security independent of the manufacturer's whims.

      It also highlights the excellence of Little Snitch 2, which is packed with new visual network monitoring features and a new Star Trek-esque configuration interface.

      screenshot of little snitch 2

      I recommend 10.5 users download Little Snitch 2 and get control over this kind of suspicious network activity. If Apple is doing it, the rest of your software could be doing worse behind your back. Buy yourself a license for Little Snitch 2 for $25 and support the indy developer because without him we would be at Apple's mercy.
      Little Snitch Secures Leopard's Area

      Leopard almost copies Little Snitch 1's preference pane and Allow/Deny dialogs with a new Application Firewall under System Preferences Security but they only monitor incoming connections, ignoring outgoing spyware like Leopard's loginwindow. Leopard imitates Little Snitch just in time to be dusted by Little Snitch 2 and caught in the act of apparently breaching user privacy.
      Apple Must Explain: Bug or Feature?

      I hope someone from Apple responds to this to show either that there is a good reason to justify it or that it will be removed in 10.5.1. Apple's overall security record is impressive compared to Microsoft but we must be ever vigilant to keep them on their toes. The obviousness of this phoning home and the inevitability of all such transmissions being exposed makes it unlikely that this is something really nefarious but even an oversight can breach privacy and great care must be taken by companies like Apple whose software is running on an increasing percentage of our computers worldwide.

      • CATSCEO, on 11/08/2007, -2/+12Oh, so its a advert...
      • senatorpjt, on 11/08/2007, -1/+4$25 is pretty steep for such a simple program.
        • arcticblue, on 11/08/2007, -6/+2Welcome to the Mac world :-/ Paying high prices for simple programs has been the biggest disappointment since switching from Ubuntu.
          • WiseWeasel, on 11/08/2007, -1/+4You do know that all your Ubuntu software can still run in OS X using X11, right? You only have to pay if you want the nicely-designed apps with developer support. Choices are a bitch, I know...
  • kigol, on 11/08/2007, -15/+10isn't 443 the SSL/HTTPS port?
    • 0ldmankdude, on 11/08/2007, -4/+21no, it's the elite hacker port that people use to own your box
    • ejreynolds, on 11/08/2007, -1/+10yes
    • OrangeTide, on 11/08/2007, -0/+2port 443 is used by the new Mac OS X worm that finds all pornography on your computer and uploads it to the next computer it infects. The purpose of this worm is to make sure nobody is quite certain if the pornography on your system is yours is from someone else.
  • starf, on 11/09/2007, -4/+34Read like an ad for little snitch 2.
    But the programs really a must have for osx, so that's not necessarily a bad thing.
    • rspeed, on 11/08/2007, -2/+3Programs like that are a must have for ANY computer, regardless of the OS.
    • HerrEisenheim, on 11/08/2007, -5/+5Must have? More like a complete waste of money. I don't need to pay $25 for information I can get by looking at the firewall log on either my computer or my router.
      • WiseWeasel, on 11/08/2007, -0/+4Once it's in your firewall log, it's too late. This intercepts the transmission as it happens, and allows you to decline it and set up rules to handle it automatically in the future, on a per-process (application) basis. I agree this article read like some Diggvertisement, but Little Snitch is crucial for Macs (as are equivalents for other OSs), and I'm always interested in knowing what info my OS vendor is sending home, so dugg.
  • jads, on 11/11/2007, -4/+36Like a previous commenter has said, it's probably for the back to my mac stuff. If Apple was collecting information then it wouldn't be using the mac.com domain but apple's own. Besides, after the bother Apple got into with the iTunes Ministore feature, I'd be surprised if Apple was collecting information.

    I'd be interested to see a non .Mac subscriber try this to see if it still does the same...
    • pixelmatrix, on 11/08/2007, -2/+3Exactly my thoughts!
    • mattym, on 11/08/2007, -4/+42Dont have .Mac, and my Macbook Pro is not phoning home. Looks like it is .Mac
    • NSResponder, on 11/08/2007, -4/+22"it's probably for the back to my mac stuff."

      It is.

      If you do a verbose boot, you can see that "Back to my Mac" starts just before the login window shows up.

      -jcr
    • ninetimes, on 11/08/2007, -5/+11That's what I was thinking, and in that case, it doesn't seem too nefarious. "Every time you use Apple's online services, it connects to Apple's servers!!" Um, yeah... what else do you expect?
    • virtualball, on 11/08/2007, -3/+21I don't have .mac and it isn't phoning home. FUD!
    • Gryffydd, on 11/08/2007, -3/+12OH MY GOD APPLE IS TAKING THE DATA I CHOSE TO SEND TO THEM OH NOES!!!11!
    • DigDugDigger, on 11/08/2007, -3/+7"I don't have .mac and it isn't phoning home. FUD!"
      Same experience here.
    • kosso, on 11/22/2007, -0/+0I do have a .mac account for *when* I use iChat, but none of my info is entered in to the .mac section of System Preferences.
      I don't even know what 'Back To My Mac' is - never seen it.
      When booting up my machine, Little Snitch tells me that my machine is indeed making a hit to lcs.mac.com - I want to know WHY?
      i do not have auto Software Update checking on at all. So, why is this happening?
      My machine has no right AT ALL to attempt to call home every time I boot up my machine.
      So, are there any Mac people out there with knowledge of a) a good reason why this could be happening and b) how to stop it happening.

      thanks.
  • mashlin, on 11/08/2007, -10/+3so anyone know a good way to counteract the flavor or horseradish in a pasta?
  • Jvhowube, on 11/08/2007, -6/+0mirrorrrr!!!!!!
  • joeycerone, on 11/08/2007, -8/+4how do you know this isnt to check for software updates, etc?
    • luchid, on 11/09/2007, -0/+3It's for the "Back To My Mac" function...
      • kosso, on 11/22/2007, -0/+0I do not have that actived at all wither - no file sharing active at all.

        Yet my machine is still calling home to lcs.mac.com

        any idea why?
    • kosso, on 11/22/2007, -0/+0Mine machine still attempts to hit lcs.mac.com and I do not have auto Software updates activated.
  • colincornaby, on 11/09/2007, -3/+18Gee... it contacts something @mac.com, which would maybe kind of sorta imply that it's part of the .Mac service? Doesn't the .Mac service transmit dyndns information if you opt in?
  • Microdot, on 11/11/2007, -4/+46its back to my mac... a feature in the os. wow. lot of paranoid people in here.
    • jferrari, on 11/09/2007, -1/+7Yes, it could easily be confirmed - just block the access and see it it still works.
    • kosso, on 11/22/2007, -0/+0so, what if (like me) you dont have any of that activated. No file sharing. No auto updates. Nothing
      ?
  • Refrozen, on 11/09/2007, -4/+29My Leopard installation is -not- calling home when loginservice is invoked. I just checked using their crappy Little Snitch 2 software. There is no connection made to *.mac.com through natural use of the computer (tried login, tried changing System Preferences, tried all kinds of things).

    I do not use .mac.
    • iPhrankie, on 11/08/2007, -0/+2I agree with your comment except for the "crappy Little Snitch 2 software" portion. Little Snitch has been around for a while and every Mac user should have it installed. You would be amazed at the amount of third-party apps that phone home.
  • aldenhg, on 11/08/2007, -10/+5So tell your router that lcs.mac.com is 127.0.0.1. Problem (if there really is any) solved. Unless the process has the ip address and doesn't use DNS you could otherwise edit the hosts file in the OS.
    • mike17032, on 11/08/2007, -0/+1Or you could turn off the feature that you turned on that caused it to do this.
  • PinkoComrade, on 11/08/2007, -16/+5APPLE IS PEACE
    FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
    IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
    • tgoose, on 11/08/2007, -3/+6We need a variant of Godwin's law that applies to 1984 rather than Nazism.
  • Sorte, on 11/08/2007, -16/+6*Begins to break out the pitchforks..." Oh wait, its Mac doing it, thought it was Vista. Guess its ok since they can do no wrong.
  • pulsifier, on 11/08/2007, -8/+6anyone know of a comparable program for linux?
  • suo97119, on 11/08/2007, -9/+2Maybe mac users should think with portals.
    • zephc, on 11/08/2007, -0/+4I'm going to portal your mom into my bedroom, via the ceiling.
    • phort99, on 11/08/2007, -5/+3Mac users only wish they could... too bad macs can't play any games worth playing. Enigmo aside.
      • Naga10, on 11/08/2007, -0/+1I really wish I could play Starcraft...
  • JasonCox, on 11/08/2007, -17/+3I'm just going to sit back and watch the Mac fanboys defend Apple and berate Microsoft while the Linux guys laugh at all of us.
    • mike17032, on 11/08/2007, -0/+1Maybe that time sitting back would be better spent making yourself into less of an idiot.

      This is a feature. Its not spying on anything. I think its even off by default.
  • chromerium, on 11/08/2007, -6/+38buried for being incorrect sensationalist *****
    • streetstealth, on 11/08/2007, -1/+3It is admittedly sensationalist spin, but it's important that we're aware of these things lest they actually violate our privacy next time.
      • bradleyland, on 11/09/2007, -0/+6If you got a notification for every mundane action that your PC performed on a daily basis.... you'd have Vista's UAC. And we all know how well that's been received.
  • bsdboy, on 11/08/2007, -5/+4I just looked at my fw logs, we have several leopard machines and don't see any hits to lcs.mac.com today.

    I call BS.
  • HypocriteDigg, on 11/08/2007, -15/+16Notice how the anti-Apple zealots always flock to the Apple stories? What a bunch of losers.
    • digudown, on 11/08/2007, -6/+5You are a Apple fanboy and a loser in life..
    • over90000, on 11/09/2007, -3/+9notice how the anti-windows zealots always flock to the windows stories? what a bunch of losers
    • webcrumb, on 11/09/2007, -0/+4notice how the anti-ubuntu zealots always flock to the ubuntu stories? what a bunch of losers
    • limpits, on 11/09/2007, -0/+3notice how most users tend to read articles on the top10 list in a section? thats so odd...
  • LaughingMan11, on 11/08/2007, -4/+4One thought... does this guy have the .mac "Back to my Mac" feature enabled on his computer?

    If so, then isn't he effectively opting in to notifying .mac about his mac's presence so a remote mac can log in?
  • over90000, on 11/08/2007, -7/+3lol apple
  • jdkullmann, on 11/08/2007, -2/+11I call Shenanigans - it's Back To My Mac. Either an ad for Little Snitch2, some anti apple fanboi, or just someone clueless.
  • superrcat, on 11/08/2007, -1/+13It is "Back to My Mac". It is enabled by default if you configure .Mac. To prove this (if you have .Mac configured), go into the .Mac System Preference, choose the "Back to My Mac" tab, click Stop, then click Start again. If you have Little Snitch installed, it will throw up an alert to..."lcs.mac.com"
    • thogue, on 11/08/2007, -1/+3this appears to be correct. Making this article. BS.

      oh ... please flame the poster =D
  • FredFredrickson, on 11/08/2007, -11/+2Awfully Big Brother-ish of Apple, isn't it? More so than when they restrict you from taking screenshots with the DVD Player app running anyway...
    • jkoke, on 11/08/2007, -0/+1It's not big-brotherish for them to transmit data to their servers to enable a voluntary service (that costs money) that you chose to enable and which wouldn't be able to work at all unless they could communicate with the .mac servers. The DVD player/screenshot thing is likely a licensing contract requirement, and it's easily circumvented with terminal commands.
    • Billions, on 11/08/2007, -0/+2No, the DVD screenshot thing has to do with the DVD software playing the video signal directly to a keyed area on the screen for maximum playback fluidity, avoiding the 'middleman,' so to speak, if that makes any sense - I don't know the full technical angle there but I'm sure someone has put somthing out there on the internet about it that a google search would find.
      If you need to capture DVD screengrabs in OS X, I would recommend the free and very usable "DVD Capture," a utility that I have been using for many years without problems. The name is a bit misleading, maybe it should be called "DVD Screen Capture" or something... But it works and that's what we want, right?
  • linuxinsidev2, on 11/08/2007, -2/+4Port 443 is HTTPS... Of course it's encrypted - that's how HTTPS Works.

    It's a subdomain of mac.com thereby tying it in with dotmac somehow, i'd go with it being a backtomymac feature.
    • zlam, on 11/08/2007, -0/+0Well, 443 doesn't HAVE to be encrypted. Or HTTPS for that matter. In this case it almost certainly is. However, you could have any service running on that port.
  • chrisholland, on 11/09/2007, -1/+2I posted some rebutting arguments to Alex's stance here http://chrisholland.blogspot.com/2007/11/macos-105 ... ... posing the theory that this connection to lcs.mac.com might be part of a NAT-PMP transaction.
  • aazn, on 11/09/2007, -4/+11Wow, submitter just got raped because it was a feature that was opt-in and does what it's supposed to.
  • barl0w, on 11/08/2007, -7/+2I've played with Leopard for a few days now, and is it me, or is it a close knockoff to Solaris/Any favorite Linux distribution? I'd almost rather use Ubuntu than Leopard. I mean spaces has been around forever, rsync instead of Time Machine, and I just hate browsing in the Applications dir for the programs I haven't docked yet. I wish there was a Win key + E alternative to getting to browsing the files system, like there is in XP too.

    I'm not against X, as a matter of fact, Apple is the only laptop or desktop that I'd put money towards right now for a family computer. But I find myself more productive in XP/Vista/Ubuntu after trying Leopard.
    • Billions, on 11/08/2007, -2/+2Maybe it's just part of the generic direction all of these OS's are converging towards right now. "Spaces" is pretty slick - but like I seem to mention once a week now, the 'multiple desktop' has been available for a long time on the Mac via third-party software - it wasn't a 'linux' exclusive or anything. If you really think all of those comparable linux solutions are better, why not give it a try for a few months? If it works out, cool, if not, bail out. I wouldn't do it myself as I like OS X, but if you do end up with an Apple intel machine, you could run all the OSs you mentioned in your post.
  • sonicdude, on 11/10/2007, -6/+6This should be confusing and frightening only to people who fit into one of the following groups:
    1) People who have not used Leopard
    2) People who have neither used nor even heard of Back to My Mac, which is a service that people explicitly turn on
    3) People who lack rational thought

    Which category does the original poster fall into?
    • ubergeek09, on 11/10/2007, -0/+1People who buy Macs obviously are incapable of rational thought.
    • kosso, on 11/22/2007, -0/+0So, I use Leopard, I have never turned back to my mac on and I am rational.

      SO, any explanation as to why my Mac is hitting lcs.mac.com every time I boot up the machine?

      I have no auto updates at all switched on. No file sharing of any kind active. No .Mac details entered in prefs.
  • DDDoc, on 11/08/2007, -3/+2another case of applications taking advantage of open ports in the firewall mainly opened to allow web-browsing!
    • mike17032, on 11/08/2007, -0/+2More like an opt in service using the port for exactly what it was intended for, sending encrypted data.
  • computerfreedom, on 11/10/2007, -3/+3Closed source, closed standards. Don't scratch your head as to why this happens, this is just business as usual for Mac.
  • gerkin, on 11/09/2007, -1/+2It's probably the machine locator service that goes along with .mac subscriptions. At some point it has to login/register with the servers so you can use this feature. What better time to login to the service than when you login to the screen.

    Nothing to see here, move along.
  • t3hX, on 11/09/2007, -1/+2http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/11/08/ten-myths ...

    How'd I guess RoughlyDrafted would join the party :)
  • ubergeek09, on 11/10/2007, -1/+2Sounds like Apple
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