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iTunes versus Pirating

the-ish.com — Looking at a legal purchase of Lost side by side to a Pirated copy. guess which one wins.

Who dugg this? Made popular Feb 20, 2007

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  • noreturn, on 11/09/2007, -5/+238Where are you downloading these shows from? I end up getting nothing but top notch stuff whenever I pirate TV.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+126Comment abuse, but Duggmirror caught it:

    http://duggmirror.com/apple/iTunes_versus_Pirating/
  • vypergts, on 11/09/2007, -10/+92Buried as lame for being obvious.

    iTunes' inferior (read: resolution, aspect ratio, drm) video quality has been known for quite some time now.

    Plus LOST is free on ABC.com
  • LowRentDiggs, on 10/12/2007, -4/+64I believe in playing by the rules but stuff like this makes it difficult. I have an OEM version of Windows on a machine I build, activated it 4 months ago with no problems then I add a new hard drive for extra storage and all is well for a couple of weeks. Last week I decided to remove the additional hard drive, I reboot and Windows says my harddrive has changed significantly since my last activation and I can no longer use that license. If I had just pirated a retail version I wouldn't have this problem but, since I play by the rules and pay for what I'm using, I go through 10x the hassle.

    As long as the experience is better for pirated software/media, companies shouldn't be surprised that they're losing marketshare. Make the experience better than the alternatives or you'll continue to lose out.
  • bking, on 11/09/2007, -6/+66"Unfortunately, there is no way to prevent uploading while obtaining a torrent."

    ***** you. I bet you're one of those ***** who cuts the connection right after his download is done.
  • b3mus3d, on 11/09/2007, -8/+64Ninjaing == Dimensional Independence

    (works in all 16!)
  • diggimator, on 11/09/2007, -3/+58He's complaining that Apple gave him a chopped off version of the show without telling him that that's what he'll be getting before he made the purchase. Sounds like a legitimate complaint if true. But this makes me ask: if piracy is constantly providing a better quality product, what exactly does DRM succeed in protecting here?
  • tfedullo, on 11/09/2007, -7/+57this is odd, i bought prison break off itunes and it is wide screen... perhaps it varies by show?
  • inactive, on 11/09/2007, -12/+56Pirating == Platform Independence

    Ninjaing == ??
  • Quix, on 11/09/2007, -3/+40Why Lost isn't offered in widescreen befuddles me. I buy Battlestar Galactica from iTunes every week and watch it on my 57" widescreen HDTV and it looks great. Sure, I'd prefer HD resolution, but 640x480 looks pretty good...

    When will Hollywood realize that the way to fight piracy is to get the content out there in a high-quality format and make it easy (and affordable) to buy? Morons.
  • Navitron, on 11/09/2007, -5/+32Heres my jist on this kind of stuff if you can watch it on your own TV then why is it illegal to download it?
    All your doing is time shifting the show that you already have access to for watching. If anyone here ever gets a DMCA notice from torrenting TV shows retort back with a F-U letter there is no way something can be illegal if I can watch it on monday nights on a free airway signal thats just *****. Its called time shifting people and if someone is dumb enough to buy it via iTunes there just throwing money away..
  • abhiroop, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28I suppose its just the way you feel about downloading something legitimately v/s illegitimately. Although I totally understand the concerns raised in the article. It is definitely unfair for apple to give a stripped down version.
  • Keyes, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24The only true way for iTunes to be seen as a competitor to torrenting (at least marginally) is to provide High Definition. Until then, you're paying for a lot, lot worse product.

    Lost is about the only show to still be uploaded in 4:3. I think that is ABC's fault, not iTunes's. I got a season pass for Prison Break and I love the convenience of auto-downloading (though if it was true auto-downloading, checking every few minutes for new purchases - I'd be happier). The bitrate in iTunes TV shows are huge, so when I full-screen Prison Break, it ain't High Def, but it looks pretty good.

    That said, when iTunes start offering iPod-ready and 720p "bundles" of TV episodes I will go incredibly insane purchasing stuff from the store.
  • Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20I downloaded the first season of lost via P2P, loved it so (Being impatient) I went to download a few episodes of the second season from the iTunes store, I dont know if I will ever buy lost from iTunes again, I have bought plenty of shows and movies from iTunes and never been disappointed, but man the quality was so bad and it wasn't wide screen, and this is compared to videos I got P2P at half resolution (Preformatted for my ipod). The iTunes videos had noticeable artifacts and issues with quality, I have never seen an iTunes video in such bad shape as it was. Long story short: LOST Sucks on iTunes... get the DVD's or go P2P.
  • wyrdness, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23It's experiences like yours that are driving people to Linux and Mac, which don't have these ridiculous 'anti-piracy' features that hurt legitimate purchasers. If DRM makes things worse for me, as a consumer, then I won't part with my money. If everyone did that, then they'd be forced to change.

  • DarkStalker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18128k... you have to be kidding me. Piracy wins yet again.
  • jmp120, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17@geminitojanus

    So if I use a DVR and record the show and then fast forward through all the commercials how exactly am I paying for that by your logic. That is a perfectly legal thing to do and you are not watching any commercials.
  • mikelieman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15MythTV comes with this great key you hit to just jump over the commercials.

    Is my choice to commercial skip immoral? No. Those bits are mine. They're on my harddrive. And I never signed a license limiting what I may do with my bits.

    Now let's say I'm too lazy to hit the skip key? Is it immoral for me to d/l a torrent which has already been commercial skipped?

  • Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17@caketank:
    I'm sorry. Do you watch ads on your PVR? That's a damn lazy excuse.
  • MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15"Hell, I dunno where you get your torrents from dude, but I stick with the ones that are about 200M for a thirty minute episode."

    I go 700mb for a 45 (one hour with commercials, obviously) show. Beautiful beautiful quality... HR Stargate episodes rule.
  • fugazi, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19Usually for compression purposes.
  • magnusbe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Outside the US we are not even allowed to buy Lost on iTunes.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16@Navitron
    Which is all well and good, I suppose, until you start downloading cable shows for which you don't have a subscription. Granted, I suppose most people with high-speed internet access would have have cable, but I don't, for instance. Or then there are shows that aren't even on TV anymore, and the company intends to make money from DVD sales. I dunno... I can see your point, but from a legal point of view, it seems like a slippery slope.
  • node3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15"He's complaining that Apple gave him a chopped off version of the show without telling him that that's what he'll be getting before he made the purchase."

    That's what iTunes has a "preview" button for.

    From my casual observations, it seems that ABC is the only network stuck at 4:3. This is a nonsensical move on ABC's part (esp. with ABC being Apple's launch network!), and I probably won't buy a single show from that network until they move to widescreen.

    On the other hand, the majority (as far as I can tell, all) of the other shows are the same aspect ratio as the best broadcast version, making the article *highly* inaccurate. It's not that iTunes shows are 4:3 compared to 16:9 pirate downloads, it's that ABC's shows on iTunes are 4:3, which still sucks, but is a very different story with a very different headline and a very different focus.
  • elev, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Exactly what I've been wondering. If I can tape or tivo a TV show, there isn't much difference between that and downloading it. With tivo I can skips the ads, so I don't think that is a problem. As long as I'm not getting shows that I'm not paying for original access to (HBO, Showtime, whatever), I don't think it should be called "pirating". Navitron is right, it is fancy time-shifting.
  • Navitron, on 11/09/2007, -0/+11Enjoy your iTunes while I watch my Heroes.s01e16.720p.HDTV.x264-CTU.mkv
    ;)
  • Gerz1219, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12@Taikomochi -- Yeah, except that as we already know from the move to 480p, Apple will expect you to purchase your Lost episodes all over again in order to get them in widescreen. Then they'll try to make you pay again for HD. Or you could just download the HD torrents of Lost, seeing as how Lost is broadcast for free in HD and can be recorded with a $100 capture card.
  • LowRentDiggs, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14"It's experiences like yours that are driving people to Linux and Mac, which don't have these ridiculous 'anti-piracy' features that hurt legitimate purchasers."

    Yeah, when this machine dies I'm going with a Mac unless Adobe has their products ported to Linux by then. There's no way I'm going to use Vista.
  • Uranium118, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12And that not even a HD torrent. This would be good quality "Lost S03E08 720p x264-CTU"
  • djbelieve, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Meh...kids these days. Back in my day we had to shoplift if we wanted to pirate movies. We risked incarceration! Now with all of your bit turrets and wide-screen aspect rations you call yourself pirates? Amateurs...the whole lot of you!
  • jmkiii, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12To imply that one method of acquiring video is better than another based upon a single example is a silly thing to do!
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@Fordi:

    Navitron asked why, and 'advertising' is the answer. Let's not pretend we're just talking about time-shifting. We're talking about distributing the content with none of the ads, and with no replacement revenue for the producer of the content.

    Incidentally, 'advertising' is also the reason they don't like PVRs much more than piracy. Remember when ReplayTV got sued for its automatic commercial-skipping feature?

    That said, I don't give a ***** whether you pirate Lost or not. I'm subscribed to torrentcasts for a dozen shows, which I use when I miss one because I don't have a PVR. I'd be happy to buy shows though, provided they didn't come with DRM and were in the same format and resolution as aired (or better).
  • 298th_Scat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I don't really see how downloading these episodes that are free over the air which I pay $90.00 a month for my cable company for is illegal. I don't think I can fit any more comcast or MPAA c0ck up my @ss. If it was up to the MPAA they would produce no content at all and just sue everyone to bring in all there revenue.. I am sure they are already working on how to accomplish this..

    Dumping tons of money into purchasing "legal or for the time being legal" media make me nacious. Cause I know without a doubt some day I will get a virus or a Sony Rootkit that will destroy my computer and all my digital media. In which case I will be ***** out of luck. It just seems like a total p1ss of money to purchase anything loaded with DRM.. Like all my MINIDISCs that are encoded with atrac now that no longer have software support..
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15@Navitron:

    Advertising.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Well...considering that he stated that the pirated file sizes were *smaller*, you'd be being charitable for nothing.
  • whiteyMcBrown, on 11/09/2007, -3/+11Is it just me or was this all simpler when we all used VCRs?
  • jgoodstein, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7People Still watch lost? lost is lost !!1!!!! that show is for $ux0rZ
  • unruled, on 11/09/2007, -0/+6there is something he actually failed to mention: the "hdtv" rip he was watching, was actually not hdtv.... it was not even an HR release...

    If the author was smart enough to get proper HDTV rips (eg. 720p) or higher.... then itunes would REALLY just drop dead....

    Quality+no drm= best thing ever.

    totorototoro: Ive never seen a crappy rip... where do you guys look? lol. its the wrong place, thats for sure :)
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Felonious...especially after season 2.

    >.>
  • sirmasterboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I cut my torrents as soon as they are done downloading, but by then i usually have a 5 ratio... Stupid college fiber where i get like 300kb down and over a megabyte up on torrents, lol.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Shoplifters are not trying to be sold the same can of beans they had last week, multiple times.
  • cbreaker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@BobMysterioso:

    40K a second? Woo.

    While I don't really care if you stop it when you're done, and it's good that you DO upload at least some of the pieces you download, you're missing the spirit of bittorrent. This is why I really like sites like Demonoid where they do their best to count upload and download ratios. It keeps people honest enough to at least contribute as much as they take, and as a result Demonoid torrents are generally more reliable then many torrents on other sites, even on torrents that aren't all that popular.
  • portis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6l0$t has seriously jumped the friggin shark!!!oneone!!11

  • fjc8, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@Fordi
    That 1:1800 figure, if based on any fact at all, is significantly less for those with pirate-friendly ISPs or using private sources.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@wyrdness

    I read the mirror here: http://duggmirror.com/apple/iTunes_versus_Pirating/

    And partially my bad. The comment mentions the following:

    "I did a similar test with BSG on iTunes vs. piracy a while ago. The pirated version was out sooner, was of a higher resolution and had a similar file size."

    For some reason, my brain inserted "smaller" instead of "similar"...but even the file size being similar while the pirated version is of noticeably higher resolution still says a lot.
  • Splutterbug, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4In the UK we don't have an option there are no TV shows or movies on itunes. It almost encourages piracy
  • mossrockss, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Wait a second here. I've downloaded a couple of 24 episodes, and it's widescreen format (640x360 or something) at 1500kbps video bitrate and 160kbps audio bitrate I believe. Studio 60 is the same way, as is The Office.

    So.... this is inaccurate insofar that it only applies to Lost, from the available info.
  • villium, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@scooterbaga:
    What your probably interpreting as a "crapy frame" rate is most likely anything under 30fps which is understandable since most people understand 30fps as NTSC broadcast quality framerate. The truth of the matter is that most if not all live action filming is done at 24fps or 23.97 fps and when broadcast additional duplicate frames are inserted in order to compensate for the refresh rate of your NTSC television. Your actually getting a poorer picture @ 30fps not to mention the havock it plays with the sound engineers.
  • Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I would like to agree with you, but may I mention that using an @ sign in place of the 'a' in ass defeats the purpose of the comment filtering system - which is only on if you're a guest or a user who's chosen to turn it on. There's no reason to hide your curse words here, unless you _want_ to annoy the random parents who come here.
  • abid786, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"seriously, it should be mandatory for digg to disclose all links that go to blogspam."

    Seeing that the damn URL for this story has the word "blog" in it, I can't imagine where else the link might take me...
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