What is Digg?126 Comments
- tysat, on 10/12/2007, -48/+94Go Norway for fighting against Apple!
- letaalio, on 10/12/2007, -4/+47I wouldn't want American laws.
- invader, on 10/12/2007, -23/+63mac fanboys are going to hunt you down...
- superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -4/+39I want swedish law, down with the DMCA!
- TubaTechno, on 10/12/2007, -5/+38This is because the English contract and the Norwegian legalisties of contracts differ. In America, Apple isn't liable for any damage thier program may cause on your system. In Norway, Apple is supposed to be held liable.
I personally hate the fact that you have to download iTunes when you try to download QuickTime. (last time i checked) - grendelwraith, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32Because not everyone in the world thinks the same, looks the same, dresses the same, prays the same, mourns the same, eats the same way or things.
Oh and not everyone believes that America and it small population, should tell everyone else what to do. - BaldMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32You can get Quicktime without iTunes here. But they worked hard to hide the links to the page.
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html - arvster, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30Thank you, but no. I prefer not to have DMCA and other crap that US has. I am perfectly fine without such universal laws ;)
- FrostyFire, on 10/12/2007, -6/+33No, they ride polar bears.
Moron. - threepio, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25This isn't Pro or Anti Apple - neither of the issues that they've cited in this law are core to Apple's iTunes.
1. They've written a contract wherein the wording needs to be changed. Fix it, mmkay?
2. Take accountability for your software. No ifs ands or buts. You wrote it, it's your job to make sure it works. You may have thought you were being witty by writing yourself an out, but it's illegal in Norway. Fix it, mmkay?
3. The terms of sale are final at the point of sale. Don't piss around and write an out letting you change the deal after the money has changed hands. Fix it, mmkay?
That being said, these are small issues, easily fixable and should, if things are done right (and I think they will be), be fixed tomorrow. There's no point in fighting this one. - WinterSolstice, on 10/12/2007, -6/+27I really like iTMS and I really like my Apples, but I have to agree with Norway here.
Perils of doing business in other countries :)
First you get the whiney "Why can't I use * here?" (happens in the US with some tech, elsewhere with other). Then you get the lawsuits.
Frikin greedy people. They started this in the first place... they made the companies and the lawyers like this. (not recently - but greed keeps it rolling) The best thing that could happen is that we would see Apple have different rules there. The likely thing is that Apple will pull out of Norway.
-WS - Styleboost, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20As a Norwegian I can verify that we ride around on polar bears instead of using dirty, polluting cars. Polar bear food is the new oil.
- terminalpariah, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20In Norway, if you're found guilty of grand theft auto, do you have two weeks to give the car back?
I should move to Norway. - grendelwraith, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14It is a pretty standard American software clause that does not fly in other countries.
Specifically "By installing this software the End User is unable to pursue the Publisher for any damage the Product causes to their system"
Kind of like saying "Sorry Windows Blue Screened and you lost your doctoral thesis. We are not liable for any damages our software may cause"
Get out of jail free cards are not honored outside of Monopoly just like American laws are not honored elsewhere except by treaty. - jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17the best thing you can see happen is apple be more flexible in adapting itself to the laws of the countries it wants to operate in, otherwise ITMS will be pulling out of more and more countries in europe. Apple may hold the worldwide monopoly, but competition is a good thing; and online music downloads is still in its infancy.
- TriZz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Because the world has different governments...
...did you really just ask that? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13"Yeah i’ve always been confused by that here. Say one thing at one time and get flamed by the fanboi's and say the same thing at another time and everyone loves you. No one can make up their mind!!!"
It's all about how you say it. If you make a comment that is biased, unnecessarily aggressive, or if you fail to back up your "facts" then you will be modded down. If you add to the discussion then you get modded up.
I’m sick of people saying that digg is biased against Sony, Microsoft, and Bush. It’s just that on average the Nintendo and Apple lovers and liberals have better arguments to support there opinions. That doesn’t necessarily mean there right either, they just are better at presenting intelligent arguments and backing up there opinions.
There is and important thing all diggers should remember regardless of there opinion: Don’t want people to hate you? Don’t be a dick. - BeyondALL, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15Quite funny, Norwegian officials are fighting the stupid DRM'ish Americans while our neighbor country Sweeden officials are licking their feet (Pirate Bay case).
My solution is not buying from itms - bad product - rasterbator, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Well, there goes the Norwegian Apple site. Good luck getting your Apple hardware in the future.
- DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11http://www.codecguide.com get QuickTime Alternative from here, quicktime capability with as much evil as possible stripped out of it. They have similar things for Real Player and Microsoft crap too. I usually get the "Mega Codec Pack" and the Microsoft codecs (under "other downloads") when setting up a new box. (This stuff is all for Win32 BTW)
- TubaTechno, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12[sarcasm]thanks. reminded me of Microsoft there for a minute....[/sarcasm]
- psyon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Well, it acts as a great fertilizer. Just dont burn it for heating fuel and your fine.
- seanmac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Nothing to debate, it's just the diggers are surprised that Apple might be in violation of a law...Newsflash: companies break laws unintentionally and intentionally all the time. And the headline is stupid: A piece of software can't break a law (at least not yet, AI is not that smart yet). A company or a software developer can break a law.
- ben_nushmut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@BaldMonkey:
eMusic, for one, and no DRM to get in your way. - iSEPIC, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I would just raid and take down ALL OF ITUNES servers, until the case has been investigated for several weeks, allowing itunes to lose revenue, just like Pirate Bay, an eye for an eye, aye aye.
- teherga, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8No it does not because you are technically not buying music off of iTunes. I lost some when I had to reformat and said the hell with buying it again and pirated the stuff I lost.
- camiller, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Generally no, ITMS does not let you re-download purchased music. There have been some instances of Apple allowing it ONE TIME ONLY if you ask nicely, but it is not an automatic thing.
- BaldMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Because not all of us live in the US.
- vramdal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The Ombudsman's concerns has to do Apple's lock-in:
"Sales at iTunes are downloaded in a format expressly designed to be played on iPods, and if users want to play their music in another format on another advice after purchase, they must violate their agreement."
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1342991.ece - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7If it were up to the Apple fanboys, Apple be writing there own laws. That's not how it works, Apple decided to do buisness in Norway, now they have follow the law in that country. Do it, pay the fine, or leave, what is there to debate here?
- BeyondALL, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Norway is not a member o the EU, but still a member of the EEC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area
Therefore we have a close relationship with EU on lots of things, but still have most of our own laws intact.... - SystemsGuy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Newsflash : Show me Microsofts UAL for Norway. Hmm, looks a lot like Microsofts ULA for the states.
- SystemsGuy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10God but I love these posts. Don't like iTunes? Simple solution - don't friggin install it.. It would really make my day if Apple simply did the same thing they did with France. You want us to change our policy's? Open-source DRM? Sure - Oh, by the way, we are simply not going to have ITMS France.... What? You will change your mind?
Don't like the product?! Don't buy it.
To wrap this up, and put this in perspective.
Popluation of Norway? 4.5 million.
Population of Houston, Texas? 4.1 million.
Apples concerns about selling to Norway? Less than priceless...... - BrandonRohan9, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Atleast the Norwegians know they don't have to abide by US laws... too bad sweden isn't as bright....
- ph30nix, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9There goes ITMS for Norway...
I don't buy music on iTunes...anyone want to explain what specifically in the ToS is bothering Norway? Or is it just because it's written in English legalese? Doesn't ITMS give you back your music if your computer hiccups and you lose it? - Sagarian, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6American PhD's are easy? Must be why the rest of the world has flocked here for decades for our low-quality, cakewalk post-secondary education/research institutions.
- BeyondALL, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8While Norway is not a big country it's one of the richest in the world with higher prices than Japan - It's a good market and there seems to be lot's of iTunes fanboys here as well...
Certainly not the biggest market, but could still buy Apple CEO s a couple of nice cars :) - camiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5BTW, ITMS Europe is based in Luxembourg and the terms specify it is bound by English (i.e. United Kingdom) law, not US laws. Sorry to pull the rug out from under your America bashing.
- GlassCasket, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8This is total *****.
"Apple has to respond by 21 June or face fines."
I love it how big corporations have a deadline to fix their legal issues, orelse they get fined. But if it's a customer doing anything illegal, you better watch the ***** out, because you'll get charged without knowing. - Rayonic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@grendelwraith :
It's perfectly reasonable to have most software companies not liable for damages. If you're too stupid to keep backups of important documents, then that's not Microsoft's fault.
Software can fail for any number of reasons. The hardware hiccups or fails, a separate program destabalizes the system, or even just the wide array of possible hardware configurations and software inputs. 100% failsafe software cannot be made.
What kind of software is guaranteed to work, on pain of lawsuit or contractual penalty? Flight control software, medical equipment software, automobile software, bank transaction software, and the like. Serious applications where people could die or millions of dollars could be lost. If you're relying, I mean absolutely life-or-death *relying* on your personal computer or anything running on it, then you're stupid. - GlassCasket, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I really don't give a *****. I was simply stating the fact that it's ridiculous how big coorporations, such as Apple simply get told to fix legal issues by the court without getting fined.
- BaldMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6What other online store works with my iPod?
- LocoMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4According to the article, the three points they talk about are the fact that the contract says that it's regulated by US law (I believe all EULAs say that), the take responsibility for damages caused by the product, and the fact that they reserve the right to change the contract at any time (which would affect the songs you've bought since they're managed by itunes). I'd guess they would have the same problems with any EULA since I believe all (or most) of them have those three items on them, but I guess they're going against itunes first because unlike most eulas apple does have a way to enforce it (by updating itunes). Or that's how I see it, at least.
- WackyT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Apple really needs to be more open to the rest of the market. Being totally monopolistic is not good, especially if they want iTunes to continue to exist.
- Kyderdog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4songbird = Crap...
Horrible piece of software..couldn't wait to remove it...maybe 2.0 Might be better we will see - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7"The Consumer Council has asked Apple to respond as to whether iTunes should work on other platforms"
They have it backwards, they should require Apple to make the interfaces and specs to their online store so other music programs like:
http://www.songbirdnest.com/
can be used just like Microsoft is being required to by the EU. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7"Maybe one day we will have universal law and no borders but the way people are I wouldn't expect it in your lifetime."
And nor should we. The problem with universal law is that there becomes no escape from an oppressive/bad law. Best example, gay marrage banned, universally. - camiller, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I mentioned this above, but will repeat here.
ITMS Europe is based in Luxembourg and the terms specify it is bound by English (i.e., England, i.e., United Kingdom) law, not US laws.
I am now wondering if there is anything in the EU laws/charter/etc. that would allow ITMS Europe to specify which EU member state's law can have effect. Is Norway a member of the EU? Is there something within it's membership agreement that would makes Apples position more tenable?
If anyone more conversant in how the EU vs. EU member state relationship works at a legal level please let us know. I am truly curious.
Edit: OK, I checked and Norway is not a EU member state, so nevermind the EU stuff. - Arramol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"In January, the Consumer Council asked the Ombudsman to look at iTunes because of concerns that it breaks consumer protection law."
Where's OUR consumer protection law?! - ejm508, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3To all you dumbasses who are ranting about American law this and American law that: this story has NOTHING to do with American Law!
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