What is Digg?Sponsored by Travelzoo
All-time Low Fares for Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Year view!
travelzoo.com - Flights $52 and up. Nifty all-airline calendar identifies absolute cheapest dates to fly.
108 Comments
- IamBobX, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30"We have the greatest OS in the world on the Iphone, but you can't install any programs"
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32Kinda frustrating that you have the opportunity to have a very robust mobile OS, but at the same time no 3rd party applications. I mean, there are so many slick, powerful open source, freeware, and shareware apps out for OS X as is. Think of what developers could do on a mobile platform.
- DRTED, on 10/12/2007, -8/+31I cant wait till someone hooks a wiimote to an iphone then posts a youtube link to video footage of it
- danglerman, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30I would love to be able to emulate the Mini OS X on the PC or Mac, that would be awesome.
- nogami, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17I was nothing short of floored when I found out that Apple wasn't letting people use their own music for ringtones in the iPhone. That comes very, very close to being a "purchase killer" for me - not that I particularly care about using my music as ringtones, but because the design philosophy behind the scenes is clearly designed to benefit big business instead of people shelling out the $500+ to buy it, and that doesn't bode-well for the future...
Now that consumers, and the phone industry as a whole has a glimpse of this unit, there are going to be other major manufacturers who have gotten the "kick in the seat of the pants" that was necessary to put more polish on their own smartphone devices. It's entirely possible that before Apple's 2-year Cingular lock-in expires, that other, similar devices with more expandability will be released. - kleepklop, on 05/01/2009, -8/+20it would be just one gigantic cornucopia of awesomeness
- ndm007, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Exactly! All week on MacBreak, Merlin Mann has been asking developers about the iPhone, and all of them seem really bummed that Apple aren't allowing third-party apps to be written for it, as many have some really cool ideas. Personally, I'm hoping for Skype and/or iChat to be on there, along with some form of YouTube uploader (if the camera ends up supporting video), since Eric Schmidt is all excited about "merging without merging".
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11so umm... turn off the logging? Damn, I'm a genius.
- zachblume, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11frankie: 'Cause it's cool. *rolls eyes*
- KWhat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Just like apple to have a fantastic idea and then shoot them selfs in the foot to maintain absolute control over it. I guess it ensures a good customer experience as every application will be guaranteed to work properly however the price you pay is that you only get the applications you create....
- mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Jozwiak? seriously? Is he Woz's brother Joz?
- Darthypoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8The BSD Licenses are very different from the GPL, which is the license everyone seems to be assuming Darwin and the BSDs are released under. Free BSD licence's two provisions are:
"1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution."
- http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/freebsd-license.html
Thus source code does not need to be released when modifications are made to any derivative of FreeBSD.
Something can still easily be OS X without Darwin, as long as it has Quartz and the Cocoa APIs, it is OS X, and as both seem to be rather portable, regardless of the Kernel, I don't doubt that the iPhone really runs OS X. - steven401, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10I'd call it nerfed more than 'optimized'.
- zweben, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Hopefully they'll at least open up the platform to other established software companies (eg no single man software companies, but Skype and such are a possibility.) It'll prevent the buggy code free-for-all they want to avoid, that i've seen on Palm OS smartphones, but allow for some expansion at least.
I am surprised that this is truly OS X though. I was thinking that all the talk of OS X was purely marketing and that it was OS X only by a stretch of the imagination. - omaryak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"Press reports today said the phone will not accept third-party applications, though Apple may allow third parties to program mini-application 'widgets.'"
– http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20070110/tc_zd/198403
I think Apple's going to bend to that demand too. - ahknight, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5DARWIN DOES NOT COME FROM FREEBSD.
Stop spreading this misinformation and do a little research. The kernel is XNU (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU) and came form NeXT. The user-land tools are from FreeBSD, yes, but those tools are likely not present in the version of OS X on the iPhone.
As others have pointed out, however, EVEN IF they are, the BSD license does not prohibit closed-source derivatives. - Frankie4Fingers, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13Are you dumb? Why would you want to emulate a cell phone OS on a computer? I can see wanting to do that if you are a developer and you need to see what a program will look like when installed on the phone, but why just to have it on your computer? You aren't going to get anything out of it.
- ahknight, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@Heembo
Sure it is. Kill syslogd ... idiot.
The embedded OS is not running things like Apache or CUPS or whatnot, so there's very little logging to be had. Simply don't provide the service (or configure it correctly) and it won't write much, if anything at all. - lostboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I personally see some solution to this in the future. Everyone is clamouring about this, but there is a lot of info that we don't have so I am going to wait patiently for more concrete info before I completely write off the iphone. I personally think that either apple will have some solution to allows devs to develop for the iphone or someone will work out how to hack it and then the community will just go ahead and do it anyway.
Look at the ipod. There's a healthy community based around hacking it so it will practically make your tea and wash the dishes.
Apple sure are getting some good publicity though! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7It means it's not more than 500MB. That is "something".
- triddle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@stikkitjim
Please read up about how the BSD license works, then open your mouth. For your convenience, from Wikipedia:
"Supporters of the BSD license argue against the copyleft nature of the GPL. They argue that the BSD license is more free than the GPL, because it grants the right to do nearly anything with the source code, second only to software in the public domain, and that the nature of the BSD license has encouraged the inclusion of well-developed standard code into proprietary software. BSD supporters feel that the GPL takes away fundamental rights from the users, forcing them to write their own software for tasks that are covered by GPL software if they wish to redistribute it with a non-GPL-compatible license." - Heembo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The Phone supports Flash and Java. Plenty of ways 3rd party developers can participate.
- shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10i don't see how a 500mb osx is even impressive, when we have fully featured linux distro's with a whole suit of applications (office, productivity, internet, games etc etc) running from a single CD....
- andydumi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5So out of the 4GB or 8GB, half of a GB is lost to OSX? Thats obnoxious.
- MrViklund, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Ehh. Look. It it OSX no matter what you think.
You know, just as Linux can run at Supercomputer, it can run on normal server and desktops, laptops, PDS, smartphones, tablets, clocks, phones, cars, robots, satellite and more and it's still called Linux. So, it does not matter if the iPhone can't run normal OSX apllications, it is still OSX... - SpacedCowboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@ Uruviel:
Um, why would Apple need to open-source their own OS ? The licence you're talking about is what *OTHER* people have to do if they want to use the OS... Apple can do whatever the hell they like - it's *THEIR* OS.
Your logic, isn't. Your premise, flawed. Your conclusion, wrong.
Personally I can't see why it's such a big deal that they've managed to fit OSX into 500MB. Arm processors aren't hard to target, there's a GCC port, and they may even have used the 'thumb' version (so 32-bit opcodes are compressed into 16-bit words for storage).
As for 'skinfitz', AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH. The i386 kernel has been open-source for ages. It wasn't initially, probably because Apple were tidying it up...
Simon. - drizek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Actually, you have distros like SLAX which have a fully featured browser/music player/video player/office suite/image editing/games in 180mb.
- rodrigo74, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8You probably got http://digg.com/apple in your browser's address bar...
- Ratty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I don't think darwin was ported, and even if it was, apple own the copyright so they don't need to release the source.
- omaryak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The iPhone's limitation comes from the cost of flash memory. As it become mass-produced, the cost of flash memory will go down. Larger flash drives are already in the works but are too cost-prohibitive, and a hard drive on a cell phone wouldn't be a good idea either. We'll just have to live with the technical limitations until the market catches up. You can also choose to wait for the 2nd-gen iPhone.
- NeoPlatonist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Frankie4Fingers
That is for the most part true imo. Unlike you, however, I don't see why this is a problem. I am not an Apple fan boy but you have to admit that they take great ideas from other sources and make them usable for the average user. Yes, Linux is getting easier to use every day but it has a long way to go. Take the iTV for example, you could build a linux box and put PVR software on it but you have to be pretty damn tech savvy to do it. Apple has found its niche providing stuff that, theoretically, just works without needing a Ph.D. in Comp Sci. - Frankie4Fingers, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Until the product is released there is really no confirmation of anything.
- NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's not about room for the flash ram, it's about the cost. If you wanted to pay $2K or more for it, then sure, you could build an iPhone with 100+ GB of storage. I'm sure Apple very carefully considered just how much memory to offer in the first version of this product.
-jcr - blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Still "considerably less" is a stupid formulation. I meant if it's about 500 mb, just say 'about 500 mb'. If it's 300 mb, then don't say it's "considerably" less than 500.
- omaryak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2They wanted the phone not to have any limitations and to be able to display full Web sites. 500 MB is a bit much, but I understand why it's needed for the phone's feature set.
- skinfitz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3No - they have said there are going to be no third party apps for it - that means no Skype and only things that Cingular decide you can have.
- ahknight, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@Frankie
Yes, they do own it. They are the copyright holders to the OS in its current form. They could pull it from being open source and there's not a thing anyone could do about it. It has nothing to do with "might" as much as authorship. As the author, Apple can make changes to the OS without publishing the code.
Also, the components that are not under the APSL agreement are under the BSD license, which does not force anything but proper credit. There's a reason Apple's avoided the GPL as much as possible. I'd bet hard cash there are zero shell utilities in that mini OS, and thus, no GPL fun to be had.
Sorry GPL-OSS zealots, but this is how real open source works; you know, where you share for the sake of sharing and not because it protects your interests later on? - TheYoshi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I find it somewhat interesting that people are surprised that it's a "real" version of OS X. There are two reasons why it seems obvious to me that Apple would go that route.
1. OS X is based (however loosely) on *nix which is known to be an OS that has proven time and time again that it can be compiled to run on just about anything.
2. Apple as a company has already proven tremendous ability to port OS X to other architecture, PPC -> Intel.
Given those two points it seems apparent to me that it just makes better business sense to start with a port and then tailor the interface than to start from scratch.... my guess is that's what they are doing.
As far as 3rd party apps go I think we are over-reacting a bit here, Apple hasn't said there will be NO third party apps at all simply that they will control them. Likely only a matter of time before someone hacks this howardforums is full of people who live to make mobile devices do things they aren't supposed to. And of course it's only a matter of time before someone manages to stick linux on it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@zweben : Errr it doesn't have to be. Look at the T-Mobile Sidekick. The content is locked down, just like on the iPhone, but open to third party developers. QA is made by the manufacturer, and the dev have to follow strict guideline. In 3 years, there was more than 100 games and app made by mostly indie devs on the platform.
I happen to be one of them, and I made something like 8 or 9 completed games,all of them sold in the upper thousands of users, and the only revisions I got to do so far were caused by OS changes. QA actually did an outstanding job at finding other bugs before it hit the market, and believe me, the difference in quality between the Sidekick apps and any other J2ME platform is incredible (I bought a Pearl last week. I nearly vomited)
So it is possible. And although everyone said that the Danger's (the Sidekick manufacturer) model was bound to fail, Apple is doing the exact same thing... - Heembo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Digg is on the top 20 of all web sites - certainly its not just SF people posting about Apple. Frankly, I think Apple is way to expensive - I buy cheap dell machines and they run fairly flawless for 3 years, then I replace them. I am in the majority of the world, Apple market share is a paltry 5.4%
- blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"DARWIN DOES NOT COME FROM FREEBSD."
Huh, no I think it comes from monkeys. That is only of course if you hate the baby Jesus. - kenok, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Blandyman
The iPod Nano doesn't even use harddrives... all in the Nano line (so far) are using flash chips. You might be talking about the Mini. - dhughes, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3 I thought the "500" was a typo, how is this impressive? It's a phone, I'd say 500MB is incredibly bloated.
As a company you build the phone, you build a custom OS for the hardware, you have all the specs and have had months if not longer to design and build it. The OS should be 50 MB (if not smaller) not 500MB. - wounded625, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@MrViklund
i also heard that they ported linux to toast - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If they were anywhere near 500MB for the OS on this that would be pathetic. This phone may do a lot, but anything more than 50MB is just plain sloppy programming.
- blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Not to mention that you'd have to write an app adapter to the device anyway, with big buttons.
- shank2001, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It has its own flash memory stupid.
- adc86, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah, but wasn't XP written in... like 2001?
Show me Vista in 64 megs. - moofree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Lostboy is right, the iPhone will get hacked.
People will sell unlocking services online, and the technically inclined will be able to do it themselves.
That is, of course, if those reports are correct. Things always change between announcement and release of a product. - adc86, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1[clue:]
The incorrectness of your statements have nothing to do with the rabidity of fanboys. -
Show 51 - 100 of 108 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is