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53 Comments
- crystalskull, on 02/11/2009, -1/+23I hope this doesn't mean they're waiting until June-ish to release Push functionality for the iPhone. Hey only a 9 month delay! Not bad! /s
- r3zonance, on 02/12/2009, -0/+18"Despite licensing the proprietary ActiveSync Exchange Server protocol from Microsoft for use with the iPhone, Apple is building its own Push Notification Server for messaging services in both the iPhone and Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server using open, interoperable standards."
At least Apple chose the "open, interoperable standards" route instead of the ActiveSync route. Not even sure if ActiveSync could have accomplished what Apple is trying to achieve anyway.
It would be better if the headline read "iPhone Push Notification Server ALSO PART OF Snow Leopard Server", less scaremongering. - nunofgs, on 02/12/2009, -1/+16Informative article, but still doesn't get us any closer to a release date.
- vanjab, on 02/12/2009, -0/+14Push notification is going to be AWESOME.
Can't wait till I get push in apps like ChessWithFriends. - mulderbaba, on 02/12/2009, -4/+13and your battery will last ~1hr..
Apple would do it in the first place, if the bat. will last long enough. Ppl who jail-break say that they suffer from drastically short using times. - drlha, on 02/12/2009, -1/+8As someone who has been accused on here as being a Mac fanboy: I agree. Leopard Server was a basket case until about 10.5.4. One of the major issues I had was that the AFS server would simply die after a short amount of use, so the major thing a server should be able to do: serve files, didn't work. Luckily most of our users were on our could be converted to NFS which worked fine.
That said, 10.5.6 Leopard Server is perfectly fine. - Denominator88, on 02/12/2009, -1/+7Push E-mail. It's nice knowing that Apple is keeping up with technology that's been out for a decade.
- Auzy, on 02/12/2009, -8/+14Everyone I know how set up Leopard server could get it barely working because it was so buggy..
Some examples?:
- DNS config gui would screw up the config regularly
- Software update server redownloaded all the data constantly without giving the user feedback costing businesses thousands
- Anything that used kerberos/open directory was intermittant.
- Caldav had so many problems.
- Apple Fax modem caused kernel panics on many xserve's
- RAID didn't work well either.
- Radius could have worked way awesome..... Its a pity it only worked intermittantly. So WPA Enterprise was a no-no.
I'd never seen the Apple forums so full with problems...
And yes, lots of our clients gave up with the server components, and instead used third party components. Don't get me wrong, anything that was in Leopard Client also worked well, except every Leopard server specific component other then the http server had severe bugs, that apple didn't even start fixing until 10.5.3. I'd never offer to admin OSX servers again.
No matter how bad Microsoft's reputation for poor code quality is, Leopard server was the biggest stinker I had ever seen (I guess its a side-effect of not having a public beta). Agree with me or not, give Leopard server 10.5.1/.0 a try to get what I mean. - Hercules, on 02/12/2009, -0/+6Apple servers suck... we try to run it here, and the ACLs you put on the shares and things are so atrocious it's not even funny. The desktops work fine, they are meant for our marketing department (photoshop, layouts, etc), but wow does that server suck monkey balls.
BTW, why build a push environment if you can't create any worthwhile enterprise apps? Who is going to use it? - drlha, on 02/12/2009, -0/+5Works for Blackberry though, doesn't it?
- daPhoenix, on 02/12/2009, -1/+6But that wouldn't get the fanbois on both sides of the edge agitated and posting like it was the end of the world.
- JasonCox, on 02/12/2009, -0/+4Push Notification: Coming just in time for the next iPhone that's rumored to allow background processes.
- Jfave, on 02/12/2009, -1/+5Agreed. I have not had good experiences either.
- Auzy, on 02/12/2009, -2/+6I doubt it would have mattered. There was no excuse for Apple to ignore OSX server until 10.5.3.
And this is why the place I worked (an Apple premium reseller), no longer feels safe pushing Leopard server.. Windows server, whilst much more painful in some areas, at least has a significantly better track record.
I'll be dugg down, but in all the history of software I have seen, including beta releases, I have NEVER encountered such poorly tested software - drlha, on 02/12/2009, -3/+7FYI the real Mac fanboys are the ones burying your comment right now, despite the fact that is it completely on the money. I'm guessing most people clicking the red thumbs down haven't even used Leopard Server.
- Refrag, on 02/13/2009, -0/+3The iPhone has supported push e-mail since day one. Yahoo Mail and MobileMe (nee .Mac) support push e-mail on it. And of course, now that the iPhone supports Exchange, it also supports push e-mail with that.
- spazzcat, on 02/12/2009, -2/+5Not only short running times, but performance sucks. I liked some of the jailbreak apps, but the the performance hit was too much.
- IamNomad, on 02/12/2009, -0/+3i dont use blackberry services for the same reason. At least apple is OFFERING it in a package you run yourself. BES is a hook that put your email temporarily in the RIM server.
- timusca, on 02/12/2009, -0/+3This will be great for turn-based games... chess, checkers, backgammon, etc. Looking forward to it.
- SteveMax, on 02/12/2009, -0/+3Other phones can multitask and still have decent performance and good battery life. You just need to assume that both RAM and CPU are expensive, and do your best to minimize their usage when you program something.
Unfortunately, having an uniform platform means you know what the app will be running on, so it's easier to assume you have all its power at your service. If the software is well programmed, multitasking should be no problem in a hardware like the iPhone's. Heck, it was no problem in a 220MHz Nokia N70! - MrChunks, on 02/12/2009, -0/+3Typical Digg.. anything mac or iphone slated.
- decker12, on 02/12/2009, -0/+3That's hilarious. You should see the amounts of posts I have made in something like 10 different forums regarding Leopard Server's problems. I still get newsletters and digests from those forums and I feel bad for anyone who's still struggling with Leopard Server.
Nobody had any answers for my questions, by the way, including Apple. I wasn't trying to save the world with my Leopard Server either. Just trying to figure out why SMB was so slow, why I had such terrible control over ACLs, why Kerberos worked only sometimes, and where to find a single page of documentation on how to setup the CalDav server. All of this on a freshly installed out of the box not customized Leopard Server no less. - IamNomad, on 02/12/2009, -1/+3buried for truth.
- MrChunks, on 02/12/2009, -0/+2Bye!
- DrunkenSavior, on 02/13/2009, -0/+2Dugg for ChessWithFriends. One of the best free apps out there.
- tim507, on 02/12/2009, -0/+2you have never played 2 player hangman? your missing out.
- drlha, on 02/12/2009, -1/+3I never said that pinchduck. I was talking about the concept of relaying emails through a notification server hosted by a third party company, which I believe was the point of the first half of IamNomad's post (as he also mentioned how crap Skybox is, which is Microsoft).
- rmejia, on 02/12/2009, -0/+2I'll believe it when I see it.
Although I get hordes of emails a day, so I wonder if the push will become more annoying than useful. Still, I'd like to have the option for my Gmail. - drlha, on 02/12/2009, -0/+2The problem with Apple as far as I see it is not the too early release of their products, but the fact that they don't give a choice once the new OS is released to buy a server with the old one. We had a Leopard server with 10.5.1 installed because that was what it came with, and there was no option to install Tiger on it. Sure, we probably could have found a disk somewhere or maybe even found a boxed copy lying on the shelves, but that shouldn't have been an issue, we should have been able to buy the Server with a known tested, stable OS.
Apple is all about the newest and shiniest thing, which may be OK for personal computers, but for a server its disastrous. FYI I found Leopard desktop to be equally as useless for a long time, mainly because the X11 implementation just didn't work and yet Apple knowingly released it with a broken X11, instead of just shipping the old working X11 in the name of "progress". 16 months later, things have pretty much been fixed, but only if you install Xquartz separately from Macports website. - timusca, on 02/12/2009, -0/+1Last time I checked, hangman was a 1-person game there buddy.
- decker12, on 02/12/2009, -1/+2Leopard Server was a piece of hot ***** trash. I doubt Snow Leopard server will be any better. We really gave Leopard Server an honest try for about 4 months but ran into nothing but performance problems and bugs and absolutely no help from Apple.
My favorite bug? When you do a simple change permission on a SMB share (for instance, you want to give the new CEO access to a private share), the ENTIRE SMB service would restart, kicking off every single user that was connected to any SMB share. Open directory managed prefs was wonky, it still wouldn't push printers to clients, the iCal "feature" was bare bones and COMPLETELY undocumented, and file sharing over a gigabit cable was dreadfully slow. Plus, if you tried to integrate any access control on folders, any Office 2008 document saved to that folder gets turned read-only. Awesome!
We went back to our Windows 2003 Server and haven't had a single problem for either our PCs or our Macs. - pinchduck, on 02/12/2009, -4/+5Blackberry uses OSX servers for their push? Somehow I am skeptical
- tim507, on 02/12/2009, -0/+1hangman!!
- uahgekido, on 02/12/2009, -1/+2The actual push notifications are simply that - notifications. Your iPhone will receive a notification via an alert or number flag on the app icon, letting you know the app has new information available. Once you start the app, the new data will be downloaded directly from whatever server the app uses. I'm sure there will be other layers and options at launch, but this was what was described when it was announced.
- ehaugan, on 02/13/2009, -0/+1You mean like Multi-touch on a mobile device?
- puma, on 02/12/2009, -2/+3Typical Digg anything anti mac dugg down. I agree who the hell is going to use apple for their serverS?
- ttamshadbolt, on 02/13/2009, -0/+1I hope this doesn't mean developers will have to run an apple server to use the push services...
- inactive, on 02/15/2009, -0/+1No. They've always said that push notification would users Apple's servers.
- t0ny, on 02/12/2009, -0/+1I jailbroke my iPod touch, I installed themes, I'm running lighttpd and many other things in the background and I've noticed NO drastic change in battery life. Push notification will leave the radio on as would running pull notification. The pull notification does not have to be the same as the app it can be its own thread or what ever and can be VERY optimized. Unless the iPhone is VERY different then the touch then I'm not wrong. I just dont want my IM or what ever to run on someone elses server when it can run on my iPod just fine.
Hell I can run three apps at the same time on my pos i415 without any problem then the iPhone should.
Let me repeat. Push notification is a BAD idea. There are better solutions. - decker12, on 02/12/2009, -0/+1I feel your pain! Read my comment further down and let me know if you've seen the same horrorshow that is Leopard Server.
- jer2eydevil88, on 02/13/2009, -1/+2Huh? Can you explain with any references to backup this claim?
- inactive, on 03/13/2009, -0/+1That's not push, it's fetch.
- MtheoryX, on 02/13/2009, -0/+1"who besides rendering farms uses their crap for servers"
http://opencastproject.org/
A fork of the build project for this will be using it. It only consists of, I dunno, 30 or 40 top universities in the U.S. - Izacus, on 02/13/2009, -0/+1Hmm... preserve battery life? For some reason, when I turn on push mail on my iPhone, my battery dies in less than a day. If I have it on 15min poll, then I get about two days from it. Funny that.
- MightyUpsetter, on 02/12/2009, -2/+2Go and ask in a proper forum.
- Auzy, on 02/12/2009, -1/+1Not sure if 10.5.6 is ok (I quit long before then, because I got sick of Apple's attitude), however, there was no excuse for releasing Leopard server in the state it was in. It was clearly rushed, and Apple didn't even start fixing it until 10.5.3. Any other company would have delayed the release, or at least tried to suck up to corporate customers and release fixes in 10.5.1. Not Apple though!
My point is, that Apple cares more about deadlines and profit then quality when it comes to their server OS. We can't rely on Apple for anything. Microsoft and other server OS developers would NEVER have allowed this product to be released as final. It might have been acceptable in 2000, but there is no longer any excuse for an established company like Apple to charge customers for a product which was mostly unusable for months.
And how do we know as admins when Snow Leopard will be stable enough? If Apple does the same again, even waiting 6 months, there may be minor, but severe issues. - inactive, on 02/16/2009, -2/+1There are no references needed. Just watch what happens.
- inactive, on 02/12/2009, -3/+1True push notification will only work with a new hardware revision of the iPhone (the next iPhone, not 3G or the last iteration).
Sorry guys. - pedronym, on 02/12/2009, -2/+0True. Especially installing themes and Winterboard stuff slowed the crap out of the phone. I restored to the basics and the speed improvement was very noticeable indeed!
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