What is Digg?158 Comments
- Luigi239, on 10/10/2007, -9/+55The sad thing is it would take about 30 minutes of Apple's time to open up the file system for us.
Bah humbug. - Mth3ory, on 10/10/2007, -2/+45I'm part of the third party iphone dev community. There's a very good reason why apple isn't releasing an official SDK. Looking at their code a lot of the things that the phone is pulling off, things like the multiple browser windows or even getting the correction bubble to appear above the keyboard, aren't actually happening very elegantly on the back end. A lot of their code is a hack job just to get it to work.
In essence they aren't going to release an SDK because they don't really have one internally. - gothicform, on 10/10/2007, -8/+46Once again the Apple idealists miss the point. Apple exists partly on a product lock-in. If you think Apple is some utopian lifestyle company think again, they are doing what they want to do to maximise their profits. They don't care about their users any further than their own PR can throw them... when are people going to realise that Apple is just Microsoft with snazzier packaging?
- Sethwm2, on 10/10/2007, -2/+38Yeah!! This is something that is bugging me. I need to hear something from Apple telling me that everything that I have installed on my phone is going to be OK from one update to the next. I am not saying that they have to check every single application to make sure that they don't break it... I am just saying don't intentionally break things. These 3rd party apps are things that people such as myself enjoy using on MY iPhone that iBought!!
- PinkoComrade, on 10/10/2007, -3/+31I think digg needs an iPhone section under technology
- undetected, on 10/10/2007, -8/+28It would take a tremendous amount of $$$ investment for Apple to truly open up the iPhone. Initially, all they'd have to do is assign people to polish then publish the API (that's more than 30 minutes, btw). However, in all future versions they'd have to check for and maintain some sort of backward compatibility.
People are already complaining now about games they sell not working in newer iPods. Can you imagine the testing they'd have to do if we're now talking about applications taking advantage of OS X? Or if they don't maintain compatibility, imagine the uproar then. You spend $200 on amazing software only to have them all break with the next hardware upgrade.
Yes, I can only dream of the applications possible in what could have been the most capable pocket sized computer I've ever held, but I can also understand the reasons why it's a closed platform. - redfox2600, on 10/10/2007, -1/+19But I can write software for my Windows embedded phone.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+16They really need to, the iphone can be so much more with 3rd party apps , it would become a selling point for apple.
- fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -1/+14The sad thing is Apple doesn't need to they're going to get sales anyway.
- totorototoro, on 10/10/2007, -5/+18"It's time to show Jobs that his most loyal customers are not going to hold on much longer."
They haven't been "holding on much longer".
1) The loyal customers who are also adventurous hackers have gone ahead and hacked their iPhones, and made some cool apps
2) The loyal customers who are happy with their iPhones now are using their iPhones in their lives, and are waiting patiently for v1.1
3) The loyal customers who aren't happy with their iPhones returned them within 14 days for Blackberries :p
4) Then there is this one disgruntled blogger....:p - fjc8, on 10/10/2007, -2/+14So the iPhone isn't "finished" yet? Is that it?!
Apple definitely wasn't "finished" when they first released OS X 10.0; they've continually added new APIs to expose new OS functionality. Yet developers were able to develop applications for OS X well before 10.0's general release.
If the APIs are designed to work with third party applications and the applications are using the APIs properly, this won't be a problem. And if Apple were to release an official SDK and documentation, guess what: programmers would be able to use the APIs properly! If Apple was truly committed to allowing third-party native software development on the iPhone by the public, they would have started providing demo equipment or at least an emulator months ago, and started publishing documentation *before* the actual release of the hardware.
I'll continue to use PalmOS, Windows Mobile, or Symbian... - Radan, on 10/10/2007, -7/+17I might be a complete mindless Apple fanboy, but personally I think the reason that they haven't opened up the iPhone yet is mainly because it's not finished yet. As we've seen Apple is updating the iPhone very frequently (Another big update is coming soon with the UK launch) and with each update many third party apps stops working, not because Apple is trying to break them, but because they have simply changed something to make the update work which in the same time also breaks the apps. Because of that Apple simply can't open up the iPhone yet (well, the could but then a lot of people would get kind of angry when their apps stops working because on an update).
I believe that when Apple is "finished" with the iPhone, they will release an API, but until then, they simply can't do it. - ryancalderoni, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9I have tons of third party apps on my phone, it's not hard to jailbreak the system and it doesn't mess it up, they work GREAT. Also I recall reading an interview where some apple dude was like, have at it. I have my iPhone totally customized with designer graphics, icons, my own icon arrangement, and tons of apps that run without having to be connected to the web. To me it feels like it's already being done, just get the installer and it keeps track of updates and everything.
- jayhawk, on 10/10/2007, -8/+16AT&T is holding Apple by the . . . on this issue.
i think it all comes down to this -- 3rd party apps would be fine if 1 thing was out of the mix: Skype.
the second iPhone users can easily use Skype for making calls while on a local wireless network would mean that those calling minutes aren't being charged to AT&T. 90% of my calls on my iPhone happen while i am at home or at work and I am using broadband in both cases, so I'd love to use Skype instead of AT&T. - xspinkickx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8the 3rd party apps are the reason why I love my iphone.
- unmarked, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11If you think it only takes 30-minutes to "open up the file system for us", then you haven't a clue of the work really required. There are a ton of issues that have to be considered when opening ANY API, especially one that will be popular and one that some folks will look for security cracks it. It's more than "30-minutes" by a very, very long shot.
That said -- Apple does need to provide some SDK. If security is an issue, I would think they might consider a widget-like approach. Javascript (already on the iPhone) would allow for a bunch of new functionality without threatening security and Apple can expose the appropriate APIs to the Javascript environment. I hope that Apple has been working on something like this. Maybe they'll announce in at macworld 2008. - franklymister, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8I loved my iPhone when I got it on day one. Two months later, when I decided to take the plunge and open it up for third-party apps, it was like getting an entire new phone. Actually, no, it was like getting a new computer.
The iPhone as Apple wants it to be is a great phone, and a good internet device, and an excellent iPod.
Once it's opened up, it's the most amazingly portable, usable, and just plain sexy UNIX machine I've ever used.
I agree, Apple should be able to block the unlocking - after all, that's their contract with AT&T. Just put out an SDK and open this amazing platform up to developers the way it should be. The iPhone has the potential to be the next great dev platform, I'd hate to see Apple blow this opportunity. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9"If we sit here and wait, the iPhone will become a closed platform"
Isn't that what Apple wants? - kelly, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11Apple has gone on record to say that there is no guarantee that all the things you installed on your will remain ok. They said that they won't intentionally break things... but wont hesitate to do so if they need to.
Install all the apps you want. just don't expect Apple to do anything they said they would not do. - fjc8, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Apple seems to have done okay with OS X; if anything, they introduce a lot of newer APIs in OS X all the time that require a newer release once applications begin to use the APIs.
Microsoft, Palm, and Symbian have managed to create mobile APIs that stay relatively stable over the years. Why can't Apple? The lack of an iPhone SDK is *not* a technical limitation in any way. - jopsen, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7I agree and hope that the IPhone won't get a become popular, it's probably the worst thing that could ever happen to the smart phone market...
While Microsoft is bad, real bad, Apple is far worse... At least Microsoft doesn't lock the hardware...
But I don't hope any serious company would ever make hack to the IPhone, so in it's current state it's pretty much doomed... Why? Developers, developers and developers... That's what you do need...
So everybody stop developing for the IPhone and work on an open platform like the greenphone or openmoko.. Or whatever they are called! - drewfer, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5This is why i love app tapp, took two minutes to install. Still we need open apps and i desperately want flash.
- WiseWeasel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4"Apple" is the iPhone section...
- kelly, on 10/10/2007, -5/+9It's not that its a difficult thing to do so much as a strategic thing to not do.
- Jrr6415sun, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4if Apple became dominant, it would mean it is ok to lock everything down.. then sooner or later, everyone's phone will be locked.
- catalysis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4But you can use skype on AT&T windows mobile phones...
- EarlOfLade, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8It's Apple, for crying out loud!
They are not opening anything.... Apple is no better than MS for all practical purposes. Now the fanbois will start digging. - skoles, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Don't be surprised if the next firmware update kills the 3rd party stuff AND brings you apps to be purchased from Apple through iTunes.
- fjc8, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Why would AT&T want that?
Nearly every other AT&T phone allows users to download games and apps; of course, AT&T would prefer that you buy their games, but you can download stuff from other websites (like Opera Mini, Google Maps/Mail, etc) or upload them via a data cable/Bluetooth/etc, On a smartphone, you can add applications via a multitude of ways -- memory card, internet, Bluetooth, data cable, wifi, etc.
It's never been a problem for AT&T for any other device in the past. And AT&T isn't the only carrier for the iPhone. - superkendall, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5Are you sure you want Flash? Have you used flash on other mobile devices? Yes technically it can work, but remember that Javascript execution is 80x slower on the iPhone Safari browser. Flash may suffer a similar slowdown... flash video at least would probably be unusable.
Simple flash things might work, but again it would be slow... and some mouse operations a flash based executable might be expecting would never happen. - hotdamn, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3AT&T would probably throw a tantrum if Skype ever made it onto the iPhone.
- kelly, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=7668
From TFA
----
Apple's Greg Joswiak has reportedly said the company doesn't 'hate' third-party iPhone applications, but he does stress that Cupertino doesn't 'like' or 'support' them either, Gearlog writes.
These tidbits from Joswiak emerged from a conversation with two PC Magazine writers. Joswiak said that although Apple does not set out to break third-party apps or hacks deliberately [including iPhone's that stray outside AT&T's network? – ed.], updates that break hacks aren't Apple's problem either.
And, yes, Joswiak confirmed, iPhone and iPod Touch are essentially the same platform because they both run OS X. So hacks that work on iPhone should run on iPod Touch. And vice versa.
Joswiak did say as well that Apple was always open to reviewing the policy on third-party apps, but at the moment is committed only to not 'maliciously' breaking non-Apple software.
---- - astrosmash, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The question is, will they release an SDK, or are they going to start playing whack-a-mole with the existing apps?
I could believe that they would release an SDK if Apple hadn't repeatedly rebuffed questions about 3rd party application support. They usually respond with "The iPod doesn't have an SDK, so why should the iPhone", or "write Safari Web apps."
Certainly, it takes a lot of time to solidify the APIs, write the documentation, create consumer-ready development tools, etc. Plus there's the whole security aspect, and the need to prevent developers from getting access to the raw cellular network. They barely got the thing out the door in time, so it's no surprise that a 3rd party SDK wasn't a priority.
But it would be very easy for Apple to say "we're working on a 3rd party SDK and will release a beta in the future", but they haven't, and given how intentionally crippled the iPod Touch is, a 3rd party SDK does not seem very likely (unless enough people raise a stink about it, I suppose) - unmarked, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Are you aware of the actual conversation going on here?
#1 - Apple is proprietary compared to open-source. But you do know that you can write applications for OS X. And you can write plug-ins for a number of Apple products as well.
#2 - again, it appears you are just latching on to spew Apple hatred without actually knowing the conversation.
#3 - many of us don't wait in line, don't think Apple is perfect.
The fact is that the iPhone/iTouch is likely to be a major platform. I don't think it is silly to ask for an SDK, just like Apple gives with OS X. 3rd party folks believe that, just like they do on the mac, they can also improve the desirability of iPhones/iTouch products via 3rd party options.
I think Apple isn't ready (internally) to provide an SDK. One of the big issues is that when you do provide APIs, you have to support them for a very long time -- so you want to be careful with what you expose. Apple knows this from its 20 years experience. - Gee1004, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4The iPhone is still missing Flash and cut&paste
- rheaume, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4"Apple is just Microsoft with snazzier packaging?"
Wow, finally someone gets it. Just 500 million more people to go. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"Hmm, a little harsh with the MS comment there perhaps?"
Yes, especially since MS's smartphones are open (in that we can run our own programs for it) - CaptainLando, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I do this too. But the bad thing is that when you update your firmware you basically are forced to restore and reinstall everything.
- Scorps111, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I want to block him but i dont no how Oh the Humility (crys)
- tomis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4So you've seen the actual source code to the iPhone? That's worthy of a digg submission in its self. Do tell!!
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I'm not saying it is, but they are trying to convince Apple to take action against this from happening.
- n0c0ntr0l, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Yes, but is what Apple wants what you want?
- WiseWeasel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2No Service... crap! You can do a whole lot more with native apps than with web APIs...
- Firehed, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Don't bury this guy unless you've actually tried the apps. He's right - while there's a lot of effort that's gone into most of them, by and large, they're still mostly proof-of-concept quality. The "15" app, for instance - the classic 15 square tiles with numbers on them that are scrambled and you have to rearrange them, There's hardly a game that lends itself BETTER to a touch-screen interface. But for some reason that totally escapes me, the guy that wrote it decided that the accelerometer would be a better control, so you're tilting your phone around like a twit rather than moving the pieces around in the same way you would were it a physical game.
- dbbblondon, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Well i've just bought 2 from my family in NY, should be here next week - definately going to switch updating of, I can't see why I would want it on if i can do so much once i get them unlocked on the version they are currently shipped with.
- rockets, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I'll dig you up!
- erzz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I blocked him just for being a *****
- Iandefor, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3"If we sit here and wait, the iPhone will become a closed platform."
It already *is* a closed platform. This is why you have to resort to hacks to get 3rd-party applications on it. - mcorto, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I completely agree with the article. Apple, please listen to us!
- fjc8, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2It's not harsh... If anything, the GP's comment is too easy on Apple. Microsoft provides SDKs with documentation for its PDAs and smartphones, and their platforms still work fine.
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