What is Digg?169 Comments
- NtroP, on 10/12/2007, -4/+51Ah, so "Real Computer" == PC?
That's funny, I'm a Systems Administrator who is responsible for almost 10,000 computers (Mac, Linux, Windows, ec.). I have 25 years experience in the industry as an IT professional. I'm typing this on a Mac.
That last conference I went to was put on by Sun and attended by a variety of experts in the high performance computing (HPC) field. Every Single One of the computers brought to the conference by attendees were Apple Laptops. Even the two Sun engineers had PowerBooks. There was not a single Windows box in sight.
I've found this to be true more often than not: The more you really know about computers, the less likely you are to use Windows. The less you know about computers, the more likely you are to use Windows and makes ignorant comments like "I always thought it was idiotic that so many schools used Mac's instead of PC's. Kids could be so much more prepared for the work environment if they were using PC's" - kiwininja, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7This is just ridiculous. How on earth does using a mac not prepare you for a career in journalism or publishing. I've worked with publishing companies and newspapers both, and I've seen a mix of both mac and windows machines.
- 1ivewire, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6From what I've seen of "The Real World," they use Macs there too.
- Crashless, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4People need to RTFA.
"Kanouse and other teachers and students charged that Bosley's termination at the Viking News was in response to the newspaper's periodic criticism of college President Jon H. Larson and his administration's policies. The administration flatly denied the accusation."
The mac reason was a reason the administration used to cover what appears to be a case of pissing off the wrong people.
It's a fairly common misconception, that Macs don't prepare students...I'm surprised it's news. - Chewie67, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"By using Macintosh computers, this professor is raising a generation of students who will leave college, and not buy Windows based PCs. As a result, they will cause thousands of americans to lose their jobs writing antivirus software, antispyware software and registry cleaners, not to mention the countless hard working folks who make a living reinstalling Windows on computers that have ground to a halt. This is clearly bad for our country, and the professor must be fired to set the right example!"
As my Grandfather used to say "There's no use in being stupid unless you show it!" - sunmicroman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Disclaimer: I am not promoting a flamewar with this post.
>>1) Mac's are based on UNIX which currently comprises 80% of the internet servers and infrastructure.
And only about 2% of those are Macs.
>>2) most Video, publishing and graphics studios use Apple computers because they are superior.
No, it's because it's what people in that line of work have been using for years past and are used to it.
>>3) At the My Postgraduate school most of the scientists use Linux or Apple because of its superior computing performance.
I think there may be a few other reasons in that equation.
>>4) recently I built a 64 node 500 Gflop cluster of apple Xserve computers, to solve a problem that a windows computer couldn't even approach solving.
Without knowing more detail, it sounds more like the hardware was the factor there.
>>5) in my experience, most " Professionals" use Apple computers because they provide superior functionality and reliability
That is a matter of opinion.
>>6) Most of the time we give the key data entry people, and personnel who perform limited and menial tasks with windows computers.
Probably because they can get by with el cheapo low end Dell more than the actual platform of software they are using.
I actually work in IT for a public school district and feel there is some merit to what is being said about Macs not "preparing kids for the real world". If you've ever dealt with a child from K age to 12th and spoke with the teachers paid to educate them, then you will know that if someone learns a certain "way" to do things from a very early age, then that is most likely what they will gravitate towards in their later years and feel the most comfort with. And let's face it, most children will turn into adults that use computers to perform a particular task and not become a "geek". And since 90% or so of the DESKTOP in the market is of the Microsoft platform, it would tend to follow that the person should get accustomed to it from an early onset.
And all this coming from an OSS Linux geek. ;) - sleepless, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Personally I don't have a mac. I personally prefer to use PCs. But to be ousted for their choice of tool? That's just jacked up. I smell a wrongful termination suit coming.
- uacheesehead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3After reading the article, I'd be surprised if the "real" reason she was fired was because of Mac usage. There simply isn't evidence to back up their claims that it doesn't prepare them for the real world. That's ridiculous. I worked at the University of Arizona's school paper, where 90% of the work was done on Macs. They were not always the best, and often were barely able to do the simple word processing they were needed to do. This may actually be a decent representation of "real world" journalism - as friends I know at newspapers often work with rather old and not very good computers (be them Mac's or Windows machines).
- Nadcock, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"why use a mac when windows can do it all"
Uh, because macs can do it better? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You all are missing the point and falling for the smoke screen. This was a COMPLETELY political move. It had nothing to do with the newspaper itself or what type of computer being used to create it.
The trustees had to use SOMETHING to get her gone, so the reason's given were drummed up, but behind the scenes I guarantee you it was all politics.... - barata, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5School never prepares anyone for the real world anyhow! Yet how using an Apple influences that fact I'm not quite sure!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3because, you know, the 50-node XServe Cluster that our lab got a $1M grant from the NIH this year to develop genomic research software is just another example of working outside the "real world"
*shakes head*
i think there's a lot more politics going on in the background of this story than meets the eye... - gllmac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I've been in the IT space for almost 30 years, some of that in higher ed. I'm not surprised by this; most small colleges are clueless to what the real world looks like. In my opinion, Macs
are the best platform for naive users and certainly are the best platform for this application. The net was supposed to allow us to have freedom of choice on the desktop. I still feel that is essential, even though it hasn't happened.
This just demonstrates the insanity of decisions made by uninformed people. - joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The level of technical ignorance on DIGG.com is disproportionate to nearly every other tech site I visit. Why is that?
- kungfustickman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2While in this day and age making such a statement about Macintosh Computers publicly is unwise, I can't help but think that there are other reasons why this adviser got ousted.
Bureaucracy can be really fishy these days but I doubt that Macs were the only excuse for this case. You know I can't say more without understanding the context of the situation. Believe me, in a case like this, context matters. - GregsDailies, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I love how retards try to force their "Tech-NO-logic" on people who are either IT Pros or people you have 10 years in whatever field it is. - *Hey I know how to code, C++, PHP, Java, HTML, etc etc. and this person is telling me to use Geocities Site Builder to make a website - Because that's the "Real-World" website app.* It's like a Golfer telling a Boxer how to punch.
CrazyZ - "I guarantee you it was all politics..." - Koskun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The story isn't about the fact that she uses a Mac, it is about the fact that she was supervising articles that did not look kindly on her and the schools supervisors, they were annoyed, and used whatever they could think of as an excuse.
The fact that it was a Mac just made headlines because it seems as if MacWorld wanted it to.
Things like this go on in a lot of universities and colleges. The real story is her getting fired because the bosses didn't like what was wrote.
Good article, very bad title. - fonz0069, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3anyone email the bastards?
jlarson@ocean.edu - bpapa, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4NtroP is not BSing. My boss went to Sun's Java One and told me the same story, that everybody there was using a Mac.
- digitarius, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1*****, this is fan. Fan, meet *****. I think you two will get along...
- JDCentral, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Ahahaha...
It's funny because they're totally missing the point. The people who are writing that article are the ones who aren't prepared for the 'real world'. ... I don't think it matters what type of computer you're using, but more-so what software.
I'm also near-100% sure that every school newspaper I've ever heard of (college or high-school) is written on Apple Computers. - jflint, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3When I worked for the school newspaper in college, everything was Mac. I thought that most papers/journalists were standardized on Mac (Quark, pre-press and all that).
- dangerboy13, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Dumb, vindictive, ignorant sons of bitches.
- Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Seems like using Macs wasn't really the issue. Apparently they were looking for a way to oust her because she let students write critical comments about the administration. But firing her for allowing her students to exercise their free speech rights would be unconstitutional so they found a loophole that doesn't hold water.
- skyhighrockets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Direct Link: http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20051213&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=512130316&SectionCat=&Template=printart
Macs Rule. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3oops forgot to say...
NtroP: well done.
here in the RTP area of NC, there's a rather large Linux User Group in TriLUG, of which I've been a member for the last few years, and in that time, its gone from an iBook here, a PowerBook there, maybe 2 or 3 at a meeting of 100+ people to, I'd say, solidly half of the laptops at meetings are Macs, and these are almost all hard-core Linux coders, sysadmins, and stuff like that. Its awesome.
! - spadin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1She didn't get fired because she uses a Mac. She got fired because Macs don't have a good spell checker. I heart my mac.
- DaWolfman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think the board actually pulled excuses out of their ass so the could fire the adviser. If you read the source article, not only did they also think the newspaper had too many errors, but they also prevented three teachers from gaining tenure.
I think they're trying to cut costs, and they came up with lame excuses like this. Everyone should calm down, since these people obviously don't know what they're talking about regarding computers. - kevbryant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1um truth is, the kids in schools these days know more about computers than most of the people administrating the school. many times that INCLUDES the person teaching them about computers. and since when was the public school's agenda been to "prepare students for the real world"? I NEVER had a class teaching me about loans, writing checks and managing accounts, maintaining a retirement plan, buying a home, getting married, or anything else of the like. THESE KIDS could probably code half of us out of our gourds, and they're fragging us left and right online. they alredy know what they need to know about computers, tell them to stop using technology as a crutch and go back to teaching them skills, like grammar, etc. the things they're actually lacking
- lampy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Does anyone else notice it is SHE that said that's why she got fired and not the board. Most likely, the paper's criticism of the school's President is why she got fired, which is a bad reason to fire anyone, and not because she used Macs. Come on people, maybe it's because she makes crazy assertions like "They fired me because we use Macs", is why she got fired.
- joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3This article is complete BS. She's a crappy teacher. This is 2005. She should be teaching her students that modern journalism has nothing to do with critiquing those in power, but rather is a simple matter of cutting and pasting press releases sent in from government and management.
;o)
"I always thought it was idiotic that so many schools used Mac's instead of PC's. Kids could be so much more prepared for the work environment if they were using PC's."
Because the most valuable skill we can teach kids is the difference between the apple menu and the START menu?
If people are that stupid coming out of school, we have much more serious problems.
"Great news. Very Funny. I agree with the board somewhat."
Scary.
"I'm a windows guy and I think Apples are overpriced and useless."
Of course, if you actually were able to think, you'd see how silly that statement is.
Wait. What am I doing? Debating with 13 year olds on DIGG again? ARGH! ;o) - kevbryant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1seems kind of naive. we should prosecute anyone of these idiots who makes decisions based on computers when they don't even know anything about computers. however, i agree they should be educated in multiple platforms if possible, but most sofwtware used in layout is pretty much the same in mac and windows.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I just sent the moron this email
Recently, I read a story in digg.com http://digg.com/apple/_New_Jersey_college_student_newspaper_adviser_ousted_for_using_Apple_Macs_
that one of the reasons you criticized a publisher was for her use of Macintosh computers, on the grounds that Mac's don't prepare people for the real world. I would like to point out the errors of this reasoning.
1) Mac's are based on UNIX which currently comprises 80% of the internet servers and infrastructure.
2) most Video, publishing and graphics studios use Apple computers because they are superior.
3) At the My Postgraduate school most of the scientists use Linux or Apple because of its superior computing performance.
4) recently I built a 64 node 500 Gflop cluster of apple Xserve computers, to solve a problem that a windows computer couldn't even approach solving.
5) in my experience, most " Professionals" use Apple computers because they provide superior functionality and reliability
6) Most of the time we give the key data entry people, and personnel who perform limited and menial tasks with windows computers.
I'm not sure where you get your money from (MS possibly) but your assertion that using apple computers do not prepare people for the real world is completely inaccurate and false. Unless your definition of the real world involves menial uneducated positions like key data entry and secretarial work. If this is what you offer than I guess that your assertion that Apple computers do not prepare you for the real world would be true.
So i guess your motto is
" come to Ocean County College, where we will help you learn menial uneducated tasks where you can be easily replaced"
Eric Adint
Systems Engineer - Vlatro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Macs vs PCs didn't seem to be the main reason for her removal in the article. It was more an excuse because they couldn't say her targeting of senior faculty and administrators in criticizing editorials was grounds for her being "moved" to other tasks. The truth is the teacher is not preparing her students for the real world. In the real world, if you piss off your boss, bad things will happen. A private university has the right to do what it wants with it's employees so screw the teacher. I just wish they had the balls to say that instead of blaming her choice of computers. Political correctness makes everyone look like a spineless idiot.
- gorkish, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Macs, PC's... there's no difference
when you drop them on somebody's head from three floors up, they will still die. - funkytaco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Uh, I'm a network engineer. I use a Mac.
- stisev, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I am a PC user, but this story upsets me.
- Chordonblue, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I sent the guy an email. Probably won't do any good, but this is just silly...
Dear Sir,
I read with some indignation your board's decision concerning Karen Bosley and thought I should share some thoughts on the 'Real World'. The 'Real World' is that most publishing houses still use Macs and will likely continue to do so for some time. The 'Real World' is that while Windows users constantly fight spyware, trojan viruses and other hazards, Mac users continue to keep working. This, amongst many other reasons is why our school has decided to purchase more Macs than PCs in the future.
I'm not sure what 'world' you folks live in, but you should know that regardless of machine or operating system, basic computer skills are applicable. Learning how to use a desktop publisher on one platform doesn't mean you are totally lost when you are faced with another one. How do I know this? It's happened many times before. Look through your own school's history and find out how many different types of machinery or software have been used in the past. At my own school (and well before my time), we've used XyWrite, WordPerfect (for DOS and Windows), Word (in many incompatible formats - DOS, Mac, and Windows), and now OpenOffice.org. As times change, so do the tools and those changes are generally good things - providing users with a better way to do their jobs.
I can't speak for things like spelling errors and I've never seen your student newspaper to comment as such, but discrimination against a great tool like the Mac is like firing a gardener for using Craftsman instead of Black and Decker.
Please reconsider.
Sincerely,
C.T.H.
Technology Coordinator
Linden Hall School for Girls - longman2g, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think i know what the problem is. At my school our technology class or whatever it was had a couple of top of the line mac's that people could use, and then an old windows 2000 machine that some guy used kazaa too much on and got it full of spyware. Then in other instances, i take my new windows XP laptop and set it near old slow ass macintosh machines, and it looks much better. Nobody is actually comparing top of the line machines to one another, just bad experiences they had with older machines, and how much better their system is. When I bought this laptop I could have gone either way because I was looking at the best machines out there, not comparing old problems from past ones. I eventually went with the windows machine because I had more experience with it, and I am in Notre Dame's engineering program, and you will not find one macintosh anywhere near there. Only PC's and Linux.
- craigtheguru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sounds like a blow to the college and its Journalism department. I hope they are covering the situation and not covering up the situation.
- orangetiki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Time to call the dig army away from crappy camera stores to 2 bit community colleges.
- CommieSpy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I personally don't like Macs, but wouldn't begrudge someone who does. My question is, if Macs were such a big problem, who approved the purchase of them? My experience has been that faculty advisers don't really have that power--they can only make recommendations and someone else, usually in the IT dept actually purchases and sets up the computers.
- sandrino, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What a putz!
- flickr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Read it, interesting... but all these comments? hmmm
- brickbat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I just emailed Larsen telling him to start looking for a new job now.
- ayeaye, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What casedot said is correct...
When will you people learn that everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. PC or MAC who gives sh*t. As long as it works for you its all good. I'm pretty sure all of you guys have better things to do... - Casedot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sippi said "If I was a student there working on a degree in journalism, I would do my best to transfer to another college before the spring semester starts next year."
It probably wouldn't make much difference. I'm willing to bet this kind of stuff goes on at almost every college (or ALMOST every institution that has a board full of old men that are there because they have been working for a long time), it's just they havn't been exposed to the media like this one has... - thatsiebguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Its the software that matters, not the OS its running on. Besides, most of the journalism/art departments I have been in use macs.
- lampy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Are Mac users after a fight that much, that they use this as a way to start one?
- aliasunknown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I also think its funny how people try to say they're preparing anyone from grades 1-12 by teaching them with a certain OS. While anyone being taught in high school has a good chance of using the more common OS at the time, do people really think the same OS will be used in 10 years? In grade school I used an Apple, at work I use Windows & Linux. Well, maybe my school just did a really bad job at predicting the future...
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