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- RyeBrye, on 10/10/2007, -8/+47"It's further believed that ZFS is a candidate to eventually succeed HFS+ as the default operating system for Mac OS X"
What retard writes crap like this. They write for a tech site and don't know the difference between OS and FS? - hotdamn, on 10/10/2007, -1/+24I believe they just weren't paying attention.
Which they also should've. - nakile, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22The Dock was first used in the NeXTSTEP, Jobs own creation. As for ZFS, it's open source. That's like saying Apple stole OpenGL.
- adude, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19Some info on ZFS: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/whatis ...
- newbill123, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13I'm excited about ZFS, but it looks like what is coming in three weeks or so isn't yet up to the hype that people were talking about with Leopard and ZFS last year. Don't get me wrong; any news about ZFS on OS X is great news, but it looks like progress with ZFS is slower and more cautious than when it was first revealed as a Leopard feature.
Here's an article someone else wrote that gives a good dose of reality to counter the rah-rah hyperbole of the appleinsider article: http://macjournals.com/news/2007/10/04 - rspeed, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11In fact, they seem to be very happy about Apple implementing ZFS in OS X. That's how open-source works.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8...When did Sun say Apple was stealing the Dock and ZFS? Oh, never.
- Garfunkel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8ZFS is ***** awesome, i run it on my linux box via fuse to my external drive, it's not a realistic test because of fuse being the middle man, but man it's nice even with fuse.
- zmjone2992, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10totally ***** awesome
- iChainsaw, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Excuse me, but those don't look anything alike really...and your monitor is copying my monitor because it is a rectangle.
- Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I think he realised a long time ago Firewire was a better way of doing it. :p
- counterplex, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Wikipedia has a fairly easy to grok article that contains the kind of details you might be interested in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS - variaas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4So I've done a couple searches for ZFS, but all the pages are purely technical. Can someone provide an overview of what benefits the average user will see with ZFS? Or would a shift from HFS+ to ZFS be transparent to an average user?
- kahrn, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4You'll be mocked for that comment in a few years. You're doomed!
- nixfu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Well...that IS as long as NETAPP does not become the owner of ZFS and takes SUN's rights away.
http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2007/09/05/ ...
http://blogs.netapp.com/dave/2007/09/netapp-sues-s ...
/***** - Me1000, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3If we are going to personify ZFS I guess she would be in the womb...
(if we are talking about leopard implementation) - Churnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Just run FreeBSD or PC-BSD and get the ZFS goodness now. However, I will say that requiring 1GB of RAM for a filesystem is kinda harsh.
- variaas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Thanks - but let's say you had to describe ZFS to your parents (given they aren't technical). Would it be a feature worth discussing and how would you discuss it at such a level?
- ilgaz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2A basic example feature would be, the “Volumes” approach may go bye bye. For example, one can plug a ZFS formatted USB drive to his/her machine and the space on that machine becomes available to master volume.
Only guy who can explain ZFS in a way the general public can understand and actually “demand” it is really Steve Jobs.
It is an enterprise storage system, in use on enterprise class servers (mainframes too) and very high end Workstations which the overhead is impossible to figure. - enicholas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Who pissed in macjournal's Cheerios? That "good dose of reality" sounded a lot more like "I have a giant stick up my ass". Based on both the tone and sheer stupidity of that response, I doubt the author has ever actually used ZFS.
In the interest of full disclosure, I'm typing this on a Leopard machine and my home directory is on a ZFS partition. - ilgaz, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Web 2.0, IT media 2.0. They have no clue about how hard it is to change a default filesystem of an established,commercial OS either. They should ls -la from Terminal and see "Desktop Folder" hidden on their Octo Xeon machine having nothing to do with Classic.
- rende, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/1446/zfs_ten_reason ...
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Xsan oh Xsan how I love thee... now where is Final Cut Server!?!?!?!?
- OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I'm somewhat familiar with WAFL, having studied it for a filesystem project. And when ZFS was announced I simply could not believe how close some of the main features of it is to the patented parts of WAFL that I was studying.
- 0xception, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1apparently people can't take a joke anymore :) sorry you can digg me down some more.
- ilgaz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yes, just like the idea you do nothing when you add RAM to your machine. It is more like "online" version of the RAID 0, a lot more dynamic and advanced of course.
- ilgaz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1To get commercial OS support such as OS X, they need something else.. Diskwarrior support :)
There is no professional I know who would use a filesystem without commercial third party utility support. Same goes for Windows Enterprise and Workstations too. You can’t fire chkdsk or fsck -f and pray for the best if you have $100k project on disk. - astrosmash, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1And a discussion:
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/05/ ... - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Still no word on proper Linux support, FUSE doesn't count despite the fact that FUSE developers will continue to preach that there is no disadvantage over kernel support. Sure with some specific optimizations it might be almost as fast as a kernel based fs (Like NTFS-3G currently is) but that still doesn't remove the fact that you need the userspace software which makes setting up a bootable system 10x more annoying, requiring an initrd with the fuse and zfs modules etc... Plus the fact that distros will tend to ignore it, even NTFS on Ubuntu still needs to be manually setup (even if that only requires "sudo apt-get install ntfs-config; sudo ntfs-config".
FUSE isn't supposed to be used for real filesystems, its meant for things link wikipediafs, unionfs and such. And maybe prototyping.
The Sun CEO said he wanted to see ZFS everywhere including the Linux kernel. Still no word on Solaris GPLing either. - Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Read and ye shall learn. :p
- DooDooFace, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Anyone want to explain what this means for the end-user in layman's terms?
- variaas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Oh that's a pretty nice idea. I like that concept and see where it works in the enterprise and possibly the user. So with ZFS your file system can grow and shrink as needed?
- ilgaz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1If you check Sun Workstations and Sun mainframe class servers RAM specs, you will figure why :)
- ilgaz, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2The idea of ZFS is a basic thing. Once you completely implement it, you will never, ever have to "upgrade" your filesystem. Even if holographic drives ship, ZFS will be able to support them without a single change.
Remember the Mac Path: HFS , HFS+ , HFSJ+ (journal), HFSX+J (case sensitive/journaled) and the amazing time of work needed to upgrade entire filesystem. (Speaking in theory) If ZFS existed in MacOS 6 times and Apple used ZFS in such low configurations, they (and users) would never need to update it in 1TB home disk times. - ilgaz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well, it is what Apple will ship on Leopard, a filesystem plugin (OS X is plugin based but not userspace) which supports ZFS read. When they are sure ZFS is completely stable, they will enable writing too.
I bet one can hassle and add Fuse-ZFS to pre OS X 10.5 right now too. I don't think anyone would dare since some idiot may wipe his files and blame the poor package maintainer for it. - ilgaz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Gruber linked that article, enough said :) If they make sure it is stable and commercial quality disk tools (e.g. diskwarrior) ships with support, all DTP and Graphics friends are considering ZFS for their DATA directories (not boot)
- JoeOReilly, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Maybe he meant.
It's further believed that ZFS is a candidate to eventually succeed HFS+ as the operating system default for Mac OS X - ilgaz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1If Apple puts ZFS to boot volume, it will be the first general public use of ZFS on home computers.
Nobody understands the point of Apple saying "World's most widely used Unix system" when advertising OS X. "Wide" as in general public, 50-60 year olds who only browse the net and use office tools are using Unix when using a Mac. - sfty, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1There is nothing preventing anybody to port ZFS to Linux except Linux' very own license! Apple and the BSDs are already using it (think about it) and I think Sun would in fact be very happy if Linux would too.
- ilgaz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1No kidding, when first G5 Apple shipped, industry laughed at Apple for sparing money to 64bit home/professional (workstation) computing. Now some home users have EXR images in hand which are fine edited in 64bit environment. Professionals use 39 mpixel as standard for sometime anyway.
- ilgaz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Fiber/XSAN using people are booting from HFS+ too. Nobody would need such massive overhead on boot drive.
- iFungus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1There's a certain level when everybody is "stealing" from someone else. I really hate it when people say "OMG Exposé is a blatant copy off of Beryl, KDE invented the preference panel, blah blah blah" There are legitimate claims of stealing, such as advertisers using deviant material for commercial purposes, but that is completely different.
- CraigJ, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Are you kidding me? That had me drooling. ZFS is, apparently, the *****!
- metanym, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Um, yes he does. He knows it's a filesystem, so for the article to say it's going to be replaced by ZFS as the default *operating system* is not clever.
There's precious little that can make you look more stupid than incorrectly correcting someone's correction. Congratulations! - duprasi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+01. Ubuntu 7.10 will include NTFS-3G by default.
2. Why do you want to boot from ZFS in the first place? It's safe, but definitely not fast. It's for media storage, which needs no speed. Use ext3, or even XFS or ReiserFS, for the boot partition. Just as OSX would do fine booting from HFS+ instead of ZFS. - Nerotique, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Isn't NetApp currently involved in a lawsuit against Sun; claiming that *they* own ZFS (an open source project... sounds like SCO eh)? Maybe this is why Leopard isn't out yet? Purely speculation, but I can't wait to see what all the hype is about when 10.5 finally does hit the stores.
- swissboy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1better know what YOU are talking about before blabbering along. You obviously have no idea what HFS is...
- omababy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1u mean someone told him. That's the thing about Jobs, he's good at making choices. But he is far from being a tech, in any sense of the word.
- 0xception, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1your right... the bottom one is much nicer :)
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