What is Digg?224 Comments
- hifiDesign, on 10/10/2007, -9/+146One one hand, Apple really pisses me off with the way they're heading toward completely closing off devices that for all intents and purposes could completely revolutionize mobile computing (or at least set the bar really high). They are stymieing their own work which is super confusing and something I would expect Sony to do.
On the other hand, this guy was making public his plans to dump a Touch's source code onto the web, thereby exposing it to competitors, etc. Apple would've been within their legal rights to file a complaint after he did it (I'm not so sure about prior, though). Make no bones about it, the hacking we do on the iPhone is illegal as per their TOS. We just want them to pull the stick out of their rectums.
So is it *****? No. Do we have to agree with Apple all the time? Certainly not. - wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -21/+99Troll? no. The guy is totally correct. Apple forks FreeBSD, people call them innovators. They threaten to brick your cellphone if you install apps? Get apologies. Sever laptop quality isues? Excuses from the faithful. DRM in Itunes? No problem. Unnecessary ipod-db encryption? Again, excuses.
Apple has been notorious since its inception to want to control its users in a walled garden. Was the case when MS buried them in the inception of the PC by being open because they chose a closed system route. Its just as true today. - akf2000, on 10/10/2007, -5/+73I've never understood the attraction of these Wordpress error pages.
- Bukowsky, on 10/10/2007, -9/+71he's a troll because he submitted a story you didn't like?
huh? what does that make you then? - Shigglyboo, on 10/10/2007, -55/+108***** Apple. Steve used to be a hacker. now he's got an overpriced crap phone that's all locked up only available through the largest most crappy company around in the phone business. Apple killed Emagic's Logic too btw. I can do without AT&T and I can do without another iProduct.
- wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -4/+54Actually, Jobs has always been the business part of Apple. Wozniak was the hacker.
- lukifer, on 10/10/2007, -4/+45Full-screen is now free in QuickTime and iTunes. It only took 'em ~10 freakin' years.
Oh, and developer tools for OS X have always been free (they're included with the OS, and downloadable with a free Apple ID). - Scruffydan, on 10/10/2007, -5/+33of course this isn't the only issue where apple gets a free (or almost) free pass.
The recent crap they pulled with the ipods disabling many third party addons, charging an extra buck for ring tones and more as mentioned here :(http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments ... would have gotten people howling if MS had done the same thing.
I hate the apple double standard. - sunbane, on 10/10/2007, -7/+34Maybe we aren't outraged as posting code that isn't yours actually is illegal.
- str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -24/+50It's because Apple has somehow managed to do something that every company is in awe of, form one the most loyal cult followings. This cult used to be somewhat ostracised and was not accepted, but after the IPod became a commercial success - this community has been readily accepted. What is amazing is that there are many who will take all sorts of abuse and still praise the company, I'm not pulling any punches - that alone is an amazing feat for a company. They have an absolutely amazing PR team that is able to take controversies over their product and spin them so cleverly that it seems as if the PR team didn't do anything at all, when in fact they most likely averted disaster. Like any other company, there's also fanboyism, but that's to be expected.
I'm still peeved over Quicktime - pay for fullscreen, lack of free developer tools for OSx, the fact that software for OSx or hardware for Apple products is way too expensive (at least compared to the non-Osx alternatives) - I don't know if they make these products so costly so as to maintain some sort of privilleged class distinction or if the developers are just really greedy. - RogerStrong, on 10/10/2007, -4/+30No, it isn't that simple.
It used to be common practice to use cheaper 3rd party print cartridges on your printer, and printer ribbons before that.
One day Lexmark started chipping thier print cartridges to stop to stop thier printers from working with cartridges from 3rd party manufacturers. Think they have the right to do that? Imagine if GM put a chip in your car so that it would only fill up one brand of "licensed" (and no doubt more expensive) gas stations. And only GM licenced tires, air filters and fuel filters would work. If we allow it in the computer industry - where people are more accepting of this sort of thing - we set a precident for the automobile industry.
A third party manufacturer duplicated the chips in thier cartridges. Lexmark sued under the DMCA.
Lexmark lost. The judge ruled that the chips/software served no purpose other than to lock people into Lexmark's cartridges, and had no "creative" value.
A judge could easily make a similar ruling about the iPhone - saying that breaking into it for the purpose of unlocking (and sharing the knowledge with others) it is an acceptable use. If not a U.S. judge, than a European one. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -7/+33So you didn't support the DVD hack code when it was blasted on Digg AND supported by Kevin Rose?
- Lennalf, on 10/10/2007, -5/+27...as opposed to those who were forced to buy one at gunpoint.
- Raider007, on 10/10/2007, -5/+19Steve a hacker... that's funny...
he's the marketing guy with the sales pitch... - delay, on 10/10/2007, -3/+16Why should there be outrage? The guy was going to upload something that was copyrighted and closed source. If he was smart he would just post it anonymously to bittorrent and not go through his ISP. What an idiot.
I hope apple is working on an api, however I can understand why there isn't one a few months after launch as it is a lot of extra work to do this right. Apple is never one to give away their plans before they have something done so I think we may yet see an iphone api, at least I hope so. The biggest mistake apple made in my opinion was locking it in with AT&T, their network sucks and they could care less. I think apple could have ultimately made a lot more by not locking it in but what do I know...
What is sad is apple is the best we have got in the tech industry. No one is doing things completely right but Apple sure is way ahead of the competition. Present a macbook and an iphone to anyone against anything that exists in the rest of the PC and cellphone industry and what would you take? I am just surprised the rest of the industry is so damn boring and uninspired. Apple is not perfect but compared to the rest of the tech industry, it isn't even close. - Xyc0, on 10/10/2007, -3/+16It not illegal. It's against policy. Since when is corporate policy a law?
- Aiwanei, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13DRM isn't Apple, but Apple not opening up the iTunes DRM so other companies can support it on their players is damn near monopolistic. And a beautiful GUI is innovative? no not really. Almost all the features in this "innovative" UI were available elsewhere, maybe not altogether but they did exist. Higher quality does not make it innovative, just means it is... higher quality.
- trogdor282, on 10/10/2007, -2/+14My brand new Thinkpad was about HALF the price of a comparable MacBook.
Now to translate that to "asshat":
MACS
ARE
EXPENSIVE,
*****. - tubeblender, on 10/10/2007, -4/+16He's a douche bag.
- srslyfkd, on 10/10/2007, -12/+24Why the hell are people burying mstrebe's comment? He's right! The guy was uploading copyrighted code, which is illegal.
Every single person out there who complains about copyright (and who probably buried said comment) should be pointing the finger where it belongs: your legislators. Call your reps. Tell them what you want. Tell them you think what he's doing should be legal. Or don't. Point is, the law is on Apple's side, and no amount of bitching about Apple will do anything about it if those laws aren't changed. This is the exact same thing as what's going on with ringtones.
Man, you people like to bitch, but hardly anyone on Digg seems to understand the legal reasoning behind the way things are the way they are. You blame the companies using the laws without pointing the finger at the people who wrote those laws in the first place. You bitch about the DMCA, but how many of you have actually called your elected officials to tell them you want portions of it (or all of it) repealed? Make use of your democracy. It's about the last thing we have left, and it's but a shell of what it used to be. Fix it! - john2kx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13What about threatening to threaten to carry out a crime?
- mstrebe, on 10/10/2007, -25/+36Um, because copyright violation is actually a crime? What to post source code? Then cowboy up and get Linux building on the iPhone. It amazes me that someone would be outraged about such a flagrantly criminal act. This is not an open-source operating system that you're talking about, and Apple has every right to protect its property, just as you do yours.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Sorry, but to have to hit (what is it now, 6 buttons) before you can even enter a phone number you want to call IS A BAD PHONE.
- Scruffydan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11because in the bigger picture this is about the many questionable things apple has done recently
- pcpimpster, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10You didn’t read your digg today and realize the new "firmware" for the iPhone just crippled all 3rd party apps and unlocking techniques.
Now go ask your leader what to think next. - Roger, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11"They are stymieing their own work which is super confusing..."
I think they just don't want to sabotage any PDA they release in the future. - jstone, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9We aren't upset because Apple is defending its Copyright (except for the hackers.) We're upset because many of the same people that trash the RIAA (or Microsoft, etc) when they defend their copyrights will make an about-face when Apple does the same. There are many people here on Digg that would cheer a Hacker on if they were uploading the Zune firmware (or a Windows decompile,) but many of these same people rebuke the Hackers that are uploading iPod Touch code. It's nearly unbelievable.
- nullx42, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9about 4 layers of fat and 6 layers of hair.
- jetsetter883, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Like Apple products? Then buy them and shut the ***** up.
- jc1985, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Now, I haven't been able to read the post (the guy's WordPress site seems to have collapsed and every mirror I've tried is just helpfully mirroring the error page), but I believe the blog was commenting on something posted on Digg a few days ago (both from memory and the description above).
As I understood it, the guy was NOT posting source code. Anyone who believes the iPod touch's OS source code is on the device itself clearly doesn't understand programming. The guy was dumping the contents of the flash memory on the device, in an effort to find some way to extend the functionality of the OS, in the same way many talented developers have been writing some fantastic third party apps for the iPhone. Also, he said he was uploading the flash contents to a private area, not accessible to anyone but himself (or, admittedly, others he gave the password to).
I'm not particularly knowledgeable of the law (particularly US law), but that seems beside the point here. The point of the post (from the summary above) is that most people seem to almost advocate this action. Personally, I understand Apple was probably well within their rights to demand the files be taken down, but I'm still frustrated that they've tried to block something that could make the iPod touch a much more appealing device. Nobody's going to be able to build something that runs the touch's OS perfectly, so exposing it to competitors isn't an issue. The iPhone OS has been taken apart quite extensively, and this won't lead to iPhone knock-offs running the Apple software. Besides, the iPod touch is wrapped in enough patents to protect it from this sort of thing. If anything, the availability of some great third party apps would encourage more people to buy the iPod touch. It's not like they have the AT&T contract to protect with this one.
Just to draw a comparison - imagine if Microsoft suddenly issued takedown notices to every site hosting the Xbox Media Center (which is probably the best reason to ever own an Xbox). XBMC is built with Microsoft's copyrighted XDK software. This isn't even something provided on the Xbox hardware (as the iPod touch's OS is), it's only available to official Xbox game developers. Microsoft would be covered by exactly the same laws Apple have used here, but I can imagine the community reaction being very, very different (i.e. complete & utter outrage). I can't help seeing double standards practically every time an Apple story gets posted - usually there are a few good, reasonable, well thought-out comments, but most seem to be from Apple fans believing the company can do no wrong, and being quite unpleasant to those who dare criticise.
For the record, I'm writing this comment on a MacBook, listening to a 5G iPod, with an iMac sitting happily in the other room, so nobody here can accuse me of being a "hater". Besides, hating a piece of software or computer hardware... something's gotta be wrong there! - ZenMojo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Saving, on the other hand, is still 30 dollars.
- pcpimpster, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10My bad, comment was for here
...
You didn’t read your digg today and realize the new "firmware" for the iPhone just crippled all 3rd party apps and unlocking techniques.
Now go ask your leader what to think next. - EarlOfLade, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11There is really no difference between Apple and Microsoft except for size. They are both using the same tactics and their only goal is to maximize profit. Whenever I say this, the Apple fanbois go Ann Coulter on me.
- centerblack, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11Don't feel sorry for us, the phone rocks!
- p51d007, on 10/10/2007, -6/+13no kidding......sometimes I think these morons who worship at the alter of steve "blow" jobs are nothing more than a fricking cult!
- jasorn, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11I'm a linux fanboy. But I rank Apple ahead of M$ on the evil meter. I can't think of any Apple's practices I don't think are worst than M$'s
- Firehed, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8It isn't. But posting the source code to a closed device is a violation of the DMCA - which IS illegal. I would have expected any other company to do the same, especially when failing to do so would damage their business model.
- acarr, on 10/10/2007, -4/+10That's what I never understood....why does everyone love their iPods? I know they look cool, but those devices totally lock down your music. I want to drag and drop my mp3 files onto a device that shows up as an external hard drive. I don't want to use proprietery software (iTunes) that is going to wrap my files and control how i listen and distribute my music.
- lukifer, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6...goddamit. The hackers will WIN this one.
- lukifer, on 10/10/2007, -6/+12...as opposed to those who bought them at gunpoint?
Despite Apple's douchitude, my overpriced touchscreen UNIX-in-pocket communications device is freakin' awesome. - scarabic, on 10/10/2007, -6/+12Maybe Apple is excused by more people for stuff like this, but let's do a quick comparison.
Without making an Apple fanboy out of myself, I think it's fair to say that Apple makes quality products that people love. They sell those products to the people who want them. They play in an open marketplace with lots of competition. Their prices have gotten a lot more realistic in recent years. They're listening to their customers, innovating the ***** out of their industry, and keeping computers fun in a time when most other manufacturers are out of ideas and out of steam (if not out of business).
The RIAA, on the other hand, takes artistic products we all love, packages them at an insane markup, and then helps a bloated, self-important conspiracy of a few large companies hold the consumer hostage to high CD prices. They are anything but innovative. They have lagged behind technological innovation, not led it. They have shown contempt for customers at every turn, and have no vision for a future that's any different.
Apple has taken a hard line at times to protect their IP and what they see as their product and how it's supposed to work. People generally cut them a break because that vision is usually awesome. If, at the end of the day, they are a large corporation that occasionally sues someone, it still sucks but yes, people are willing to forgive them a little more. Not a huge surprise. They win a ton of points with people, they spend a couple where they have to, life moves on. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Go suck Jobs *****.
- KibibyteBrain, on 10/10/2007, -6/+12You almost made a good post, but had to ruin it with homophobic immaturity.
- modix, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5The CHEAPEST iMac costs $1200, and that is a very bare bones system with the bottom of the line Core 2 duo, an old Video card, and 1gb ram. Every bump up from there is $300. I'm positive any PC dealer could outdo that even without coupons and deals, which are always available. This doesn't even scratch the surface how expensive it is compared to building your own computer, or just exchanging a few existing parts. It really isn't necessary to rebuy a monitor/keyboard/mouse/case/RAM/etc every 3 years
- Saiing, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5>Only by MS lemmings and shut-in nerds like you.
Think again. I'm a Mac Pro owner and I ***** hate Apple fanboys too. - Spamcan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Apple gets a free ride because anything other then a black and white situation is far too complicated for 99 percent of the internet. Ether "Apple sucks" or "Apple is perfect" and there's no shades of gray for most people. The truth is I've had problems with Apple in the past, including 2 lemon iPods and a monitor they refused to fix/return. I've never been completely satisfied with an Apple product ether, yet I keep buying them because overall I like the hardware and OS X.
I don't know why Apple feels the need to block iPhone/iPod Touch development, but if it's because they have a larger multi-touch product in the works then I'll be returning my iPhone directly via tied-to-a-brick-and-thrown mail. Seriously, ***** them, I can still like what a company produces and condemn their polices. - Notion2, on 10/10/2007, -4/+9i'm not sure what you mean by "free ride". it's not like the digg community does anything differently when other companies pull shady moves like this. the original story made front page, so i'm not quite sure what you want us digg users to do about it?
- KibibyteBrain, on 10/10/2007, -4/+9Except I haven't heard Apple Legal make any lame threats concerning a DMCA crytpo key type infraction. They are just making a simple plain 'ol copyright claim on the distribution of their copyright rom code without a license. Still lame, but at least its just copyright act lame, and not DMCA lame. The DMCA request they made involves forcing the ISP to do their whim in dealing with the perceived copyright violation.
- sherbertbones, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Bingo. Every company's products has its flaws. My Macbook's HD died after 3 months and my PC lasted for 4 years, but I'm not kissing HP's ass. Stop sucking the Apple dong.
- cherwilco, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5"Just like Microsoft has the right to sue people who pirate windows" um yeah, whens the last time you heard of THAT happening? see thats the point everyone bashes RIAA and MPAA for going to extreme lengths to get the little guys who are sharing copyrighted materials but apple goes after a little guy and nobody seems to give a *****!
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