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Why aren't there any Penguins on this Safari?

talk.bmc.com — Microsoft owns 78% of the browser market. Apple has 4.9%. Is open source and Linux support the answer to bridging the gap between Safari and Internet Explorer? Another great blog post from whurley on the history of Apple ’s Safari, today’s announcement of Linux support, and the main reason that Steve Jobs should better support the Linux platform.

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  • tlockney, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3Hell yes! I was already thinking I should try Safari under Wine, but open sourcing it would be 1000x better.
    • whurley, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2You know it! I would love to help with an open source Safari project and I think that Apple would benefit from the community's input.
    • virtualball, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3I've always wanted to say this to a Linux yser: n00b. :D

      WebKit IS open source

      svn svn.webkit.org/repository/webkit/trunk
    • Oakes, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7I don't think the author knows what he's talking about. Webkit is open source, so by "Safari" he must be referring to what end-users see: the GUI interface. Does he honestly want Apple to open source that part? All he'll get is a bunch of Cocoa or Win32 code, which won't help in porting to linux at all. Excuse me while I knock my head against a wall.

      Oh, and parent, if you want to run "Safari" on linux right now, run Konqueror. It's almost the exact same rendering engine.
    • virtualball, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1oakes: it is. WebKit is a wrapper for Konquerer's engine. THough it is missing a lot of it's normal code so it'll play nice with Cocoa.
    • geminitojanus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7"WebKit is a wrapper for Konquerer's engine. "

      No, WebKit is a fork of KHTML/KJS that's had the entire widget system replaced with a generic object system (which can then be reimplemented to make WebKit run on whatever platform you want with platform-specific widgets).

      Right now the KDE guys are working on porting WebKit back to Qt, and there are also developers at Adobe working on porting WebKit to GTK+, so that we could theoretically make a GTK+ Safari as well. Adobe was also one of the power-houses on the port of WebKit to Win32 so they could use it with Apollo/AIR.

      Open Source working for everyone involved.
    • Mejogid, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1"I've always wanted to say this to a Linux yser: n00b. :D

      WebKit IS open source

      svn svn.webkit.org/repository/webkit/trunk"

      'WebKit' is open source because it IS KHTML, which is part of KDE. The author of this article is suggesting that Apple open source the actual GUI and features built on top of the engine, which is what most people care about rather than the actual rendering engine.

      Also, it's spelt 'user' n00b.
  • whurleygrrl, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5or you guys could all use Mac OS X if they open sourced the entire OS ;)
    • tlockney, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10Of course, some of us actually *prefer* Linux (or other OSes) to OSX. ;~)
  • bettermentflux, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Apple won't release ANY Linux apps any time soon. They are in a two-way uphill battle for marketshare with Microsoft. Releasing apps on Windows makes a future transition away from Windows and to Mac easier for current Windows users. Linux to Mac converts would be a very small bite from what is already a small piece of the pie.

    So, not much upside for Apple. The potential downside, however, is huge: iTunes and Safari on Linux would only serve to (further) validate Linux as a player, muddying up the waters and making it that much more of a three-way race for mindshare.

    Bottom-line: Don't hold your breath.

    It's not about browser marketshare for Apple. It's all about the sales.
    • whurley, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1Excellent points. In the end you're right, it's all about sales.
  • tripas, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2Excellent Points, whurley.

    That was my first thought, "What about Linux?!"

    Is it possible for them to just release a Linux version w/o Open Sourcing it?

    I'm not sure on the rammifications when it comes to open source distros like Ubuntu. Is there some kind of requirement that all Linux apps be open source? Safari could still be free, just not o/s.
    • nephilimx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Applications dont have to be opensource to come with linux, Opera is one example
  • whurley, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Hey guys, check again. WebKit is not Safari. Apple will not open source the entire project. See Tyler's comment here:

    "Safari doesn't count as open source already, I agree, that's what the WebKit rendering engine is. Dashboard snippets in Leopard, that's closed-source-Safari; Javascript speed improvements, that's the open-source-WebKit. WebKit is what came out of the fallout between KHTML developers and Apple when Apple wasn't playing nice in the open source world (when they were doing the bare minimum within the LGPL, instead of having their 37 pieces of flare), that *is* important to keep open source, because Linux developers can build a WebKit-based browser, just like GNOME's Epiphany is Gecko-based (Firefox's rendering engine). Safari is a closed-browser, but built atop a completely open source engine, seems like that's all we can really ask from a commercial software/hardware company.

    It is also a bit tenuous line I think to equate Open Source with success.
    To say Firefox is successful because it's open source detracts from the true quality of Firefox (and feels almost like an insult); Firefox isn't popular because it's open source, it's popular because it's *good*.

    Taking the opinion that Safari will become even more successful if it adopts an all-encompassing open source strategy is nice and all, but not even feasible (Apple would have to open source a lot of closed-components that make their applications work cross-platform as well).

    Safari will succeed now by being on both platforms, by being Acid2 compliant (http://webkit.org/blog/?p=32) and by being a kickass browser, open source doesn't hurt at all (I'm all for it), but it's certainly not the browser holy grail"
  • Practica, on 10/11/2007, -2/+0
    Oh - if it's penguins you want to know more about, look here: http://livegreenlivesmart.org/blogs/green_news/default.aspx and also in the University section there, where there are some free penguin photo you can download and use any way you want.

    You could send Steve J a penguin photo and advice....

    Jobs could save a lot of penguins and other creatures if he'd speak up and toss around some cash -- he's got to think outside the iceberg...
  • AlexTurner, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Good points, but I think you are missing out on why Apple is doing this. The whole 'Safari market penetration' thing is a smoke screen. http://digg.com/apple/Jobs_Cans_Apple_Computers
  • allywilson, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1To be honest I just think this is so that windows developers can make apps for the iPhone - Safari is one of its selling points in all honesty. This way they don't have to buy a mac to test...
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