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62 Comments
- meshman, on 10/11/2007, -8/+41"Apple didn’t open up the Apple TV like I had hoped, to enable it to connect to web services other than iTunes."
Well duh. These devices, the iPod and AppleTV are designed to keep you buying media from the iTunes store and that's that. Why would they not put a DVD player into the AppleTV? It's the most logical device woudln't you think? Nope, Apple doesn't want you buying standard DVD videos, they want you to buy THEIR non-standard DVD videos. Why non-standard? So they can only be played on an AppleTV. Get it now? If this wasn't Apple's marketing strategy, the device would be 'opened up' as you put it. If Apple doesn't do it, somebody else will (and already have). Don't get your hopes up. There are other, cheaper solutions. - superkendall, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8This story is absurd. The Apple TV is already a thousand times more hackable than the 360, and doesn't sound like a jet plane in your living room. There's no need for mode chips or anything, you just load new software onto the internal HD...
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -5/+12everybody's always telling steve jobs how he should run apple. he never listens.
good for him. - WiseWeasel, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10Here's hoping that it's not too long. There's a pretty decent mechanism for adding plugins for the AppleTV; now it's just a question of when the SDK is released. Hopefully, it will be sooner rather than later, as there is a LOT of value to be added by 3rd party developers. I modded my AppleTV, but it was a huge pain in the ass, and although I'm glad I did it, I cannot see your typical AppleTV customer doing it themselves (unless some nice automatic patcher gets released or something)...
- superkendall, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Actually you will probably be able to load your own Dashcode programs onto the iPhone. And Apple has been excellent at supporting open standards, and common interconnections such as USB and firewire.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5yes... you are so right. because business isn't about excellent products that make great margins and create loyal users through satisfying experiences... all leading to great stock growth.
it's about whatever you think is important.
you should be writing a book. - mrspin, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Open, as in open to third party developers with a proper SDK.
- almightySpork, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Steve will never open up the Apple TV. Plan and simple. They will continue to attempt to control every aspect of it. Sure they will add features via software update, but they will never open it up.
- avalys, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Because pretty much every open-source solution is buggy, undocumented, glitchy, hard to use, and takes so much time to set up, configure, and learn to use that you might as well just cough up for the closed version.
Case in point: MythTV. I have been using closed-source, rather expensive PVR software (BeyondTV) under Windows for years to watch TV on my desktop. I have constantly heard people talking about how MythTV is the be-all and end-all of PVR software, so I decided to give it a shot.
What a *****. It is overengineered, overcomplicated and underdocumented. After spending several hours getting it set up, I discovered that it was completely unpolished and had about 1/10th the features of BeyondTV. Apparently, in order to bring it up to feature parity, there were several plugins I had to download and install. Of course, these were all sitting around on people's personal websites, half of which have gone dead at this point, or not been updated to the latest version of Myth. I suppose, if I spent twelve hours or so on it, I could get everything working the way it had been under Windows.
BeyondTV took me thirty minutes to install and set up ALL the features under Windows - and that includes the ten minutes it took to buy and download.
I have basically the same experience with all open-source software. Firefox and OpenOffice are the exceptions - and where did they come from, originally? Closed-source products.
The vast majority of open-source software is a joke. I still use it, because the price is nice, and I am not unethical enough to pirate software I can't pay for - but it is still a joke. - fkr3, on 10/11/2007, -4/+8He's not talking about DRM.
Apple have made a conscious effort (and it's a smart move from a business sense) to lock their customers in to their products and their marketplace.
And yes, Jobs is speaking out about DRM. Now that he's the voice of the biggest DRM'd media distributor in the world. - cmadach, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Spoiler alert: It'll happen when Sony allows XBox discs to play on the PS3.
For some reason a lot of people think that just because something looks like a computer and provides a service that isn't materially-tangible, it should be "open." Jobs wouldn't be a bad person if AppleTV wasn't open, he'd be protecting his business. If you don't like it, tough beans.
As rich as he is, he deserves any profits he sees and shouldn't have to share proprietary information for the sake of sharing. I want a rocket launcher that can fire clowns, but I don't see Lockheed-Martin opening up their vault of secrets.
Leave your hacky-sack circles and get jobs, moon babies. - johnpaul191, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2who cares. that's like saying that Staples rules the business world because they sell a lot of paper to important people. Apple is probably a lot more significant because they are a company with pretty good stock. they buy a lot of computer components, enough to tilt the market if there is a shortage. they actually sell a hell of a lot of computers when you compare them to another manufacturer (not Microsoft, a hardware manufacturer). i don't know about today but a year or so ago Apple had WAY more cash in the bank than IBM or a bunch of other huge tech companies. i don't mean the value of the company, i mean actual cash in the bank that they could, in theory, withdraw or spend at the drop of a hat. that makes them significant. that's why there have always been speculation that Apple could just flat out buy up a lot of companies out there. they are also high profile and sell mostly consumer goods. people pay attention to them. a stock broker is going to buy and sell AAPL with no regard for what OS they have at home. they would be a fool to take that stupid OS war to work.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I'm pretty sure you are pulling those performance specs from your ass.
- Phatlip012, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3@ carguy84
Yes, a multi BILLION dollar company is irrelevant in the business world. Apple makes servers for the hell of it right? Gesh... - fowleryo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3@ carguy84
what does that even mean? a bit vague.. - kevincannon, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Why should they? The Apple TV is just a product. You can buy it or you can not buy it.
Techies seem to believe that they have some inalienable right to do whatever they want with hardware and that companies should give them those tools for free.
Apple offer a closed system, that's does a few thing, but does those things very well indeed.
Other people may offer more open systems. Then, as a consumer you chose which one you want to buy. - Eldrick, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2http://duggmirror.com/apple/When_will_Steve_Jobs_open_up_the_AppleTV/
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Oh come on, when does Apple open up anything?
- superkendall, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Kind of load for home theater use though. All the AppleTV needs to switch over a lot of Xbox users is the XBox Media Center to be ported to AppleTV...
- arnar, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2@kevincannon: well - when you buy (key phrase here) a piece of hardware, you do have the right to do whatever you like with it. After all it is yours, right? You're right though in that one shouldn't expect the manufacturer to give you any free tools for hacking.
- zydeco, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Irrelevant? Maybe. Successful? Yes.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AAPL&t=5y - focalrecursion, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I bought an Apple TV a few weeks ago and I do agree it does have some faults with not being able to be open to other sources besides iTunes, but I still use it every day because it just works for me. It is simple to use and sync up with your library i think it has a lot of potential in the future when they start to offer buying/renting shows directly from the GUI.
- superkendall, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2"We believe the answer is to build a silent, small, low power, low cost box connected to the open Internet."
Well, if that doesn't describe the AppleTV I don't know what does. Don't like Front Row? Work to put your OS or media center of choice on the box. - michant2, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I think that Apple and Steve are balencing what the consumers want with what the Media industry wants. They release that Apple as a closed system knowing that it is easily hackable, and they don't do anything about stopping the hacking; if anything they implicitly encourage it. Like the PSP for example. How many times has the PSP firmware been upgraded by Sony only because of hacking.
Besides, all Steve wants to do is move hardware, anything that encourages that, I believe he's all for it. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Well, you could wait forever for Apple TV to add it's enhancements, which really won't give you everything you want anyway, or you can just do what most others have done, and just mod a Mac Mini into a media center.
- cjschmidt, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I don't see Apple opening up the AppleTV to just anyone (officially), but I don't see them closing people out either. The backdoor will always be closed just enough to keep the majority of people from hacking it, but open enough that people like us can fiddle. That being said, I think Apple needs to add some more functionality and do it quick. Renting, ad-supported streaming, something to keep people interested. On the hacking side, once someone figures out how to mod the thing with a USB device (rather than removing the HD) we'll see the AppleTV hacks go crazy.
- WiseWeasel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1It wouldn't be necessary to mod it (which is really just enabling remote access) if they would let users manage their own plugins, and let developers add new features. It seems that would add a lot of value to the product, and would help Apple move more units as people come out with interesting things to do with that hardware. I love iTunes for music, but it really sucks balls for video management...
- Nutmegan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Steve Jobs will never open up the AppleTV unless it needs a processor upgrade.
Seriously though, that idea goes against Apple's entire marketing philosophy, much like opening up OSX to other PC makers. - Carniphage, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1What does "open" mean again?
My Apple TV was unlocked without having to crack open its tiny, silent and nice-looing case.
It responds to an SSH prompt - and I can add and remove software across the network.
I can remotely browse it's internal drive from any computer and drop in plug-ins.
It plays DIVX XVID, and will play MKV and day now. Thanks to free plugins, it now is happy to play movies across a wireless network stored on a NAS drive.
Will Apple ZAP the machine and banish it from teh internets? (As Microsoft would) - nah - I don't think so.
As consumer electronics go, this is the most open device I have ever owned. - MacParrot, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1dugg up for wanting a rocket launcher that fires clowns. For some reason I immediately thought of Carmeggedon
- Topher06, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Probably about the same time they open up the iPod and OSX. I don't know, what part of Apple's self established monopoly niche market do people not understand? They even took open source code and pretty much closed it down by embedding it in a proprietary OS. Might as well wait for Microsoft to open Windows code before Apple will relinquish control of anything they sell.
- iheartbeer, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I thought about that, but... No hdmi out. No component out.
I personally like my apple tv and enjoyed hacking it to play divx files. The only thing I want is built-in tv bittorrent downloads, and I'm sure that's only a matter of time. - WhackingDay, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Look, it's not going to be "officially open" because it'll open Apple up to massive licensing issues and probably litigation. It's open for people to play with and make it work the way they want it to work.
In fact, it's rather amusing just how simple it is to add the features you want using open source tools. This is only rocket science for people who want everything, not have to learn how it works and want all of that essentially for free. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I want to install a 500 gb hard drive in it, and que torrents to download to it remotely. I want full avi support , with at least 720P and up as a res choice. Lets cover flow the torrented avi files ahhh nice.
- smoovegeek, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1elsJake is correct in his analysis, and the AppleTV is eminently moddable.
The reason why I won't be buying one is its poor resolution. 640x480? On a device that is marketed as something to hook up to "your new HD big screen TV"? Sure, the average person with an older TV wouldn't benefit from greater than VGA resolution, but how many of them are spending $300 for this box?
I couldn't care less about Apple opening this up because I think it's presently an irrelevant device. I can get better output to my TV with a $5 S-Video cable from my PowerBook. Sure, it's not wireless, but I get slightly higher quality, save $294, and don't have to mod anything. A DVI->HDMI cable would naturally be even better.
Open up the AppleTV? I would rather see Apple provide true HD content from the iTunes Store and true HD output from the AppleTV, and if people want to play other formats etc. they can continue to crack open the hood and do it themselves. - johnpaul191, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"Apple have made a conscious effort (and it's a smart move from a business sense) to lock their customers in to their products and their marketplace."
how so? they are the first source for major label digital music files without DRM, currently the only one. i have an iPod, and i have maybe 5 songs from iTMS. the rest were ripped from CDs. Apple has always made ripping CDs INCREDIBLY easy with itunes. they didn't make that harder so i would be encouraged to buy tracks at iTMS. they didn't make it so i can only rip it as an (unprotected) AAC file, AIFF and MP3 are right there. the DRM was the only way those old labels would allow digital downloads. no matter what you think of those labels, that is the music most of america wants.
if you have better taste in music, there are a bunch of options for stores that sell unprotected MP3 files.
as for movies, those things have had hardware and software protection schemes (though not always so effective) going back to VHS tapes. they have never been sold totally open. they have been far more vigilant about trying to stop any sort of copying. record labels knew people would tape records and never did much about it. they knew it was hopeless. i don't see major movie companies selling unprotected movies any time soon..... or actually ever. - MikeOSX, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Who doesn't own a dvd player already?
- Mediaright, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Apple's philosophy has always been a swing towards an all-in-one solution for home users. This is not made for hackers. Why should Apple always have to put exorbitant effort into making something open for only 1-3% of people when it's a huge liability for them to do so (industry wise). If you want to hack a Mac product, by a Pro. Otherwise, either hack it yourself or buy something else.
- xGORDOx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1deleted
- johnpaul191, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"made for hackers" seems to defeat the point, doesn't it?
- SVPirate, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Oh quit whining
- OrangeTide, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I think AppleTV could make a pretty interesting homebrew game console, if you can get that USB port on it working reliably. I don't see why Apple doesn't at least grant people an SDK for using it for Mac games. There is a lot you can do with party and puzzle games with such a device so you don't have to compete with high-end PC games and the new game consoles. (The system is certainly more powerful than playstation 2 and gamecube, and probably on par with the Wii).
- carguy84, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1"yes... you are so right. because business isn't about excellent products that make great margins and create loyal users through satisfying experiences... all leading to great stock growth."
Excellent products and great margins, ummm, irrelevant products and great margins is what I think you meant to write. But more power to them that they have such a following of users willing to over spend on products. clap clap clap. - DonCarcharo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1I've owned dozens of Macs since the System 7 days, I've made the pilgrimage to Macworld, I've got one of those white Apple stickers on my car and I'm writing this on a 20" iMac. I'm a pretty big Apple fan. With all that said, instead of buying an AppleTV and hacking the crap out of it just to get it to do what I wanted, I built myself a Windows Media Center PC. Having seen both in action, Media Center just does more and is a better solution. And the price was comparable. I picked up an old barebones MCE2004 MediaCenter desktop w/ wireless keyboard & mouse plus remote on Ebay ($79), popped in 1GB of RAM ($35) and a 250GB hard drive ($60), ATI Radeon 5500 video card ($40), ATSC TV Tuner ($69), DVD Burner ($30).
It's no speed demon, it will choke on HDTV using the built in codecs, but it works. I can play Divx, record TV (not as nice as Tivo but comparable), watch online content, browse the web, play music, listen to the radio and, if I really wanted to, play iTunes content. All this without hacking. Now as I said, I'm a fairly big Apple fan but I'm also a huge fan of solutions that just work and in this case, that solution belongs to Microsoft. - bobartig, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Put a DVD player in the Apple TV? Are you kidding me? Your Mac/PC has a DVD player, and so does your home theater. It would practically double the size of the device. Why would Apple develop a product that played DVD's on a TV? That device already exists; its called a DVD Player. I'm saddened that I'm forced to explain this to someone.
If you really want to watch a DVD on your Apple TV, there is a simple, but somewhat labor intensive process to doing it:
1) Rip DVD to computer.
2) Convert video to H.264
3) Import H.264 version to iTunes
4) Enjoy over Apple TV.
The end result probably won't look as good as a decent $99 progressive DVD player. - bobartig, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0@arnar: Not exactly. You have a number of restrictions such as the product EULA, any software licenses that may have come with it, more general laws, like DMCA, and FCC regulations that you may violate (for instance, hacking a wifi base station firmware may increase its output beyond allowed levels). So, there really are a good number of restrictions that exist on how one can use a device, even though you own it. And I agree with kevincannon that hackers always pretend like none of this exists, and its their inalienable right to mod and hack to no end. To be clear, I'm grateful that talented hackers hack everything, but I think they're delusional if they consider that a right and not a privilege.
Apple doesn't usually employ any exceedingly draconian protection on their devices (read: Microsoft), but they sure are tight lipped about the stuff they make. I don't really understand the people who take it for granted that there will be an SDK. If they really wanted people modding and installing their own software, it would have shipped with a keyboard and a mouse, and had the word 'Mac' in its name. Its not a mac. its an appliance. Yes, it has everything necessary to run full OSX (and is already running some variant of it); they used a bazooka to kill a fly. Still doesn't mean they want people developing on it. - carguy84, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1Umm, there's a difference between making servers, and people buying and using them in the business world. Name 1 Fortune 500 company that uses Mac's and now name 499 that use Linux and Microsoft.
- elsJake, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3It should be at least a small pain in the ass , if everybody modded their box no-one would actually buy anything from iTunes forceing them to shut down.
If only a small part of the general population is capable of modding their device they don't loose any money , those few wouldn't buy anything anyway. I can compare this situation to ad block for Firefox , the general population does not block ads , those that do block them wouldn't buy anything anyway (maybe there are small exceptions but those do not justify the cost of "forcing" them to not use ad block-like software),
As a conclusion as long as they don't try to "Fight" modding (they have no use for that anyway , not many people are capable of doing that anyway) i'm ok with a non-official "you can do what the heck you want".
I'm more than sure they're not selling those things at a loss (like most do with video-game consoles).
And as long as i'm on topic , the apple tv device is only opening doors. Cable companies have been providing set-top-boxes for a a while , it's about time internet-connected set-top-boxes were made available.Cable companies used their own format/technology ...so does the apple tv , the only thing different is that with the apple tv you have to secure your own communication channel. It's not realy that expensive to justify them being obliged to "open it up". It's almost like paying for a dish and other equipment to get satellite tv : " installation costs".
That being said i would not mind it being open source , or at least them providing a version so that you can do whatever you like with it. Linksys had the right mind , they say that their wrtg54g was being used with an alternate firmware , so when the time came for them to reduce costs on hardware they just continued to sell the old version at a higher price for those that wanted to flash. - ElbridgeGerry, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2@ Those burying kenvsryu.
I'm pretty sure that's a sarcastic comment, folks. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3Who the hell bought an Apple TV?
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