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Video: Steve Balmer 'Explodes a Laugh' at the iPhone during CNBC Interview

youtube.com — Word of Advice for Steve Balmer: You can Criticize but Never Laugh...you may just find yourself in another embarrassing Monkey Boy Video

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  • IamBobX, on 10/12/2007, -18/+142I'm confused. Steve Ballmer says he has 20 to 25% of the market for MP3 players 250 and up, yet Steve Jobs says in the launch month the zune only took 2% of the market.

    The numbers make my ears bleed.
    • CLIFFosakaJAPAN, on 10/12/2007, -16/+191Steve Jobs' numbers are for the overall market; but I still think Steve Ballmer fudged his numbers up considerably
    • Jpantoga, on 10/12/2007, -22/+175Do the Microsoft v. Apple math

      Apple numbers + Microsoft numbers / 2 - ***** constant
    • chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -35/+488currently, DRM has a 99.9% share. So we all lose.
    • swOhio, on 10/12/2007, -64/+556Yeah, $500 dollars for a high end smartphone is almost as funny as $400 for a new bloated resource hogging OS.

      Sounds like nervous laughter to me.
    • wageslave1, on 10/12/2007, -78/+150Its easy as pie.

      SteveJ, in an effort to marginalize Zune's traction, talks about the whole market, from $20 to $600 MP3 players.
      SteveB, in an effort to maximize Zune's traction, talks about the $250+ MP3 players.

      Why? Because Zune isnt really competing in the whole market yet, and SteveJ wants to label Zune a failure. Which it is not.

      MS could simply BUY Sandisk or some other large player and "shotgun" the market, and take Zune from 2% overall to ?%... but the Zune is a longer play. Think XBox360.
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -56/+19there's a bit of marketing spin. but apple talk about ipod. Microsoft talk about playforsure powered players+zune, which is essentally everything except ipod and walkman. was that so hard to figure out?
    • anicejew, on 10/12/2007, -180/+51lol zune... who wants a brown product that squirts everywhere?
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -124/+31who wants a white product that EVERYONE else, purely because everyone else does, that has one of the worst track records for audio quality in the market, and is overpriced?... oddly, all the people that 'think different' these days hopped off the ipod bandwagon years ago.

      fyi, zune comes in other colours too.. numbnuts.
    • MinaSulo, on 10/12/2007, -53/+18Obviously you are not educated on the subject of computers. Go kill yourself.
    • GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -48/+19swOhio -

      If you think you can label Vista based on the betas, I suggest one thing to you: NEVER BETA TEST ANOTHER PRODUCT. Beta != Finished. Hasn't web 2.0 taught you anything? Remember Digg in Beta? Wasn't as functional as it was now.
    • Refrag, on 10/12/2007, -82/+245Well, Balmer says Microsoft sells millions of cellphones every year and they don't even make cellphones, so I am not going to believe a word he says.
    • r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -13/+36"MS could simply BUY Sandisk or some other large player and "shotgun" the market, and take Zune from 2% overall to ?%... but the Zune is a longer play. Think XBox360."

      That 2% that Steve Jobs mentioned was the market share of sales for the month of November ONLY. iPod still has something like 80% marketshare overall (Apple sold 62% of the all MP3 players in November).
    • GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -38/+106Windows Mobile, don't be a smartass.
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -9/+49Amusingly, Ballmer--with that comment--is also trying to squirm around the Zune's comparing to any direct competitors (i.e. "hard drive players 20GB and up") which come in just below $250 to compete on price.

      I also tend to disagree with those numbers, as I'm pretty sure he's listing "shipped" instead of "sold," and likely looking only at a small bracket of time to get the most favorible number. On Amazon, the Zune was remarkably thrashed since its' launch (the first entry would usually show up behind all the current iPods, a couple Zen Visions, a 5th gen iPod or two, and the occasional Gigabeat or Archos player; the next would lag notably behind) and continues to do so, and while Amazon may not entirely reflect the overall retail market, it DOES fairly well represent the consumer Microsoft is targetting with the Zune.

      I'd want to see numbers from multiple sources before I give it any credence toward being a reflection of actual, sustained purchasing.
    • EnderTheThird, on 10/12/2007, -5/+51@Refrag:

      You're right, MS doesn't sell cellphones as a manufacturer, but I'd imagine they have at least a decent share of the market when it comes to their mobile OS for smartphones: Windows Mobile. I don't see many Palm smartphones out there anymore, at least not any new models; the Treo is the most recent one I can remember, but that comes in a Windows Mobile flavor now too. That's probably what Ballmer was talking about, but I don't usually try too hard to figure out what Ballmer is actually saying when he's talking... that's how aneurysms happen.
    • wild, on 10/12/2007, -51/+141Screw the numbers, he flat out lied when he said the iPhone doesn't have a keyboard and wouldn't be worthwhile for email. Maybe he can't wrap his head around the idea that when you are using the email application, a keyboard is on the screen, and when your not, it disappears to allow for optimal use of the iPhone's surface.

      Numbers are one thing, lies are another.
    • SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -11/+33Microsoft has very large market share in mobile cellphone/PDA devices, and I am actually (although it pains me to admit it) very happy with my Windows Mobile PDA/phone. It sure beats the hell out of most proprietary mobile phone OSs I've used both for functionality and ease of use (and considering it's Windows that doesn't say a lot for most other Mobile phones!).
    • furyritchie, on 10/12/2007, -111/+20"Yeah, $500 dollars for a high end smart phone is almost as funny as $400 for a new bloated resource hogging OS.

      Sounds like nervous laughter to me."

      You sir, obviously have a very old computer and to top it off you have EXTREMELY LIMITED computer knowledge.

      Let me point a few basics out for you, when a product says BETA it means that its uncompleted. It should be used in a testing environment. Now, maybe you have only had a computer since Google went prime and labeled everything beta to avoid certain laws, but thats ok, your new.

      Second, have you used Vista? I mean USED it, not heard about it from your "professional" IT friends? Rhetorical question, obviously, as if you have then you will realize its performance is quite similar to XP.

      Third, Resource hog? Why because it uses 700mb of RAM (when Aero is on)? Oh thats right, idiots tend to think that using more ram alone slows the computer magically, WRONG, tool, when the minimum specs for an operating system say 1024mb of RAM, that leaves 300mb to work with. XP left 90mb free when talking minimum specs. That would mean XP would run slower than Vista when you open other applications. If I am going to fast for you, try getting educated in this field, then re-read it. But apart from that, all the minimum requirements are up, therefore it must be slower than XP. Again, your stupidity entertains me, comparing two identical computers that meet the specifications for Vista, one with XP and one with Vista, you will find that they are equally as responsive and things will actually run faster on Vista, mainly application startup time due to SuperFetch.

      $400 - hmmm IF you are running a business, maybe. IF you can use a computer, certainly, for the ULTIMATE edition. But THE AVERAGE JOE will only be using the HOME PREMIUM version at around $239 (AU$285). The basic version is 40US cheaper as well. But regardless, you must of $400 out of A) Ignorance or B) You support Apple charging $500+ for a phone. Good work, tool. Business's and people need Operating Systems for their computers and they will buy one at that price. And of course business's need phones but the Apple phone doesn't cut it for business features and it most certainly doesn't cut it when you talk pricing.

      My rant ends here as you are clearly not capable of understanding further.
    • cooldudevamsee, on 10/12/2007, -21/+6Every one is ***** no body get the credit for their work either at Microsoft or Apple.
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -8/+56@ furyritchie

      Your rant could have ended much earlier, because both "ranting" and "being a dick" are not conducive to any real conversation.
    • simplenation, on 10/12/2007, -11/+26http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSIMeRtVebM
      and
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5Kkl-Ii_M

      Remember this is a software company
    • Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -31/+126On CNBC, Ballmer is laughing at the iPhone.

      Internally, Microsoft is scrambling to copy features and ideas.

      It's a typical Microsoft response. Someone should do a montage of Ballmer laughing at Apple products through the years.
    • adiqiucorp, on 10/12/2007, -26/+10Balmer Who ? he's just a monkey.

      Tell me who's the real STEVE
    • geoken, on 10/12/2007, -35/+22"Screw the numbers, he flat out lied when he said the iPhone doesn't have a keyboard and wouldn't be worthwhile for email. Maybe he can't wrap his head around the idea that when you are using the email application, a keyboard is on the screen, and when your not, it disappears to allow for optimal use of the iPhone's surface."

      What are you talking about? A keyboard is a hardware device. Software emulation of a keyboard is not a keyboard. His point was that heavy blackberry (and other smart phone) users can use the keyboards on their devices (which offer tactile feedback) to type at an acceptable rate. The lack of a keyboard, and by extension any tactile feedback while typing, will hinder their ability to use the product in the manner they want.
    • JurneyAhed, on 10/12/2007, -20/+14What I don't get about MS is their desire to enter, and attempt to take over, any market that seems lucrative. The Zune and XBox are two recent examples.
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -11/+25@ geoken

      The human mind is a particularly easy thing to trick. A little bit of key-clicking (and, of course, the visual effects) might be all it takes for most minds to make the transition to "tactile" to "virtual." Primitive monkey-brains like SOME kind of stimulus/response, but it doesn't have to be the same kind of response.

      So long as you can type at speed, people will find what they first assumed would be annoying and prohibitive becomes their method of choice.

      The iPhone's first proving point will be providing typing with no lag. Discernable lag would be the major kicker. Accuracy and self-correction help you type at speed and are important too, but those are more easily improved and not as immediately important for our aforementioned monkey brains. ;-)
    • aacidusX, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1maybe that includes the phones with built-in mp3 players.
    • JustinPM, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12@adiqiucorp

      The real is Steve is Steven Hawkings! He's out for the good of humanity, not for the good of a company.
    • malavalla, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Both(AP/MS) are laughing all the way to the bank, and they got most of us danging like puppets
    • Nitro187, on 10/12/2007, -14/+109"EXPLODES A LAUGH" Pardon me? I watched the whole clip looking for where he so called 'exploded', and saw no such thing. He giggled a bit, when he was mentioning the price point, rightly so.... just like I did when Sony announced theirs for the PS3.... but EXPLODE? Oh my good lord.
    • sam10685, on 10/12/2007, -20/+28wow. he really is dumb.
    • ohgr, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Heh I could listen to Balmer talk all day. Sure 90% of what comes out of his mouth is total bs, but I can't help but find him entertaining to watch.
    • almightystoph, on 10/12/2007, -25/+18@furyritchie

      That is about the most idiotic argument I've ever heard.

      Summary:
      Step 1. Go buy a PC that meets Vista's minimum requirements.
      Step 2. Load Vista and XP on said PC and compare performance
      Step 3. Stand in awe because they are similar.

      The part you seem to be overlooking is that I have to buy a PC with twice the CPU power and thrice the memory to even begin to use it in the first place.

      So, if I buy a Hummer with a 500 gallon gas tank instead of a 30 gallon tank does that make it less of a resource hog?
    • Monolith2, on 10/12/2007, -5/+52So where the hell does he "explode a laugh"?
    • phoomp, on 10/12/2007, -10/+2"Steve Ballmer says he has 20 to 25% of the market for MP3 players 250 and up"
      "Steve Jobs says in the launch month the zune only took 2% of the market."

      So, who are you to believe? Neither of them.
    • feucht, on 10/12/2007, -20/+24I'm sorry the iPhone looks cool and all, but the lack of a real keyboard is a real downside. Apple do some funky stuff but they are not magicians, and they don't employ a super-race of designers that other manufacturers do not have access to. The virtual keyboard has appeared in various guises big and small over the years, and click or not, they do not supply the tactile experience of buttons, otherwise I would be typing this on a flat Optimus style keyboard with animated buttons, and virtual sparks flying from my fingers as I hit the "keys". All design is compromise, and they have decided to drop a real keyboard to allow the super thin form factor. Typing will suck period.

      The real killer for anyone who wants to do anything serious with their phone is the lack of proper email sync, see this article: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=185&tag=nl.e539
    • invader, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14when the iphone enters production, won't it quickly grasp 100% of the 'high end' (say.. $500 and up) market?
    • Rodzirra, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34Yeah, I don't think he "exploded" a laugh, either, Nitro. It looked more like he "squirted" it.
    • Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11@wageslave1:
      "SteveJ, in an effort to marginalize Zune's traction, talks about the whole market, from $20 to $600 MP3 players
      SteveB, in an effort to maximize Zune's traction, talks about the $250+ MP3 players"

      Ok, I'm with you there...

      "Why? Because Zune isnt really competing in the whole market yet, and SteveJ wants to label Zune a failure."

      Still got you...

      "Which it is not."

      Say what?

      Sorry, but you missed the part where MS's offering isn't competing in the sweet-spot market (the $50-$150 slot that consumer products sell best at). That alone puts the Zune in a bad direction. Mind you, you're partially right; the Zune is not /yet/ a failure. It's also not /yet/ a success. It's too early in its release to know that. They're going to have to seriously rethink some stuff to prevent failure; i.e. not DRM'ing the sharing feature, better wifi/bt support (ie: if you've got it, do it right for god's sake), sacrificing a little space for a lower price point, and maybe coming up with some added-value flash-based models.

      Apple's got them beat in style, and those craving style won't look at MS twice. MS's strength is almost always tentacle-hentai levels of functionality. Their products normally do EVERYTHING you could ask it to (so, of course, you need look nowhere else). The Zune really falls down on this.

      On an only tangentally related note, one of my favorite quotes is, "Apple for elegance, Windows for functionality, Linux for flexibility." That simple split almost always has fanboys on all sides raging, and I can't for the life of me figure out why.
    • tralalaa, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6"currently, DRM has a 99.9% share. So we all lose."

      Maybe YOU guys lose, but none of my music devices have one shred of DRM crap material on it.
    • wastern, on 10/12/2007, -1/+50I've never seen a Zune in the wild
    • M4v3R, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15Apple iPhone timeline:

      First, they ignore you.
      Then, they laugh at you. [we are here]
      Then, they fight you. [microPhone?]
      Then, you win.
    • tracydanger, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22Admittedly, I love Apple products (aka fanboy), but I thought Steve Balmer was very respectable in this interview. It's silly to scrutinize him chuckling when asked that question.
    • skyshock21, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6He also said that the iPhone has no keyboard. If he hasn't paid any attention to the competition's presentation of their new products what makes you assume he knows anything about his competition?
    • brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1@IamBobX

      Wow, nice leaving out the clear detail in Ballmers comment - he said they took 20% of the *high end* - $250+ of the market.

    • ProximaC, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9have any of you tried typing an email on a pure touchscreen that small before? It's painful. It's one thing on a phone with keys because at least you have the tactile response of the keys and you can count how many times you've hit each one to get the desired letter, but on a touch screen with no "touch" response, it's entirely different. Even using T9 on one isn't that easy. God help you if you're trying to drive, because since you can't feel the keys, you have to watch it the entire time to make sure your finger taps the right location. To get a full qwerty keyboard on it, even tilted sideways, you're going to be mashing keys all the time. I've watched the videos and they seem to have some difficulty dialing actual phone numbers at times on the thing.
    • Mitchl, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4@Nitro--- why are you on digg if you are not sucking on Apple's tit? Either that, or praise your love for all things Kevin Rose or the Wii. You can be an XB360 player, but you can go straight to hell for denying that Steve Ballmer gave anything more than a drooling half-witted answer during his screams and gaffaws in that video.
    • CornStarch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think he meant 25% of people who have a $300+ device.
    • hoppdawg, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21
      This is what happens when your company is ran by a salesman rather than a visionary.

      He is crazy: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
    • j0c1f3r, on 10/12/2007, -11/+9Im wondering......is everybody on digg becoming mac fanboys because kevin is?........no really because its lookin that way....whatever mr rose says everybody seems to agree with......now I like kevin and all but arent you just being sheep?
    • Embrace, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Microsoft sells alot of cell phones each year... Smartphones running Windows mobile! Such as the T-mobile dash.
    • gregfadein, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Fordi said, "'Apple for elegance, Windows for functionality, Linux for flexibility.' That simple split almost always has fanboys on all sides raging, and I can't for the life of me figure out why."

      Probably because Vista is just now getting essential features like a useful search, system-wide color correction, system-wide anti-aliased fonts for WYSIWYG, minimized window previews, that 3D-window-thing-Exposé-knockoff, and, y'know, passable security.

      Windows has been pretty much barren in comparison to the essential functionality that Mac OS X (and to a lesser degree Linux) have had for years.

      A better quote would be "Mac OS X for features and elegance, Linux for features and flexibility, and Windows for games.
    • Rage67, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3The iPhone has just started....
      when any good thing is discovered...
      it has true potential and the iPhone,
      like the iPod, will develop to be one of
      the next greatest inventions since the PC
    • mateo60, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I remember when buying an mp3 player as expensive as an iPod seemed silly.
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3gregfadein said: "A better quote would be "Mac OS X for features and elegance, Linux for features and flexibility, and Windows for games."

      How true that is. Curse you, Direct X! Oh, but for open gaming standards...
    • rasterbator, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I just love watching Steve Ballmer speak, especially his large head otherwise known as the Dome of Solitude.
    • d3c0yn4m3l355, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5The Iphone for sure will be a hype, but after 6 months when every other big telephone producer ala samsung, nokia & co got all these goodies pushed into their mobiles. For 1/2 the price, to make things worse, Apple took 3 years research to release this gimmick, on average releases every year 1 new generation if their gimmicks, so maybe in a year they will release Iphone V2.0 in that time most mobile producers are already 2 generations further. Apple doesn't have the speed nor production lines in place to actually compete with others, and for sure now its cool (even lacking serious items like G3, locked-in software which wont work with anything else, same for the hardware you break your battery you will be forced going to apple again *catching* and not to forget no proper support for your mail software/hardware wise) but after half a year its dead normal, if not out-dated and then its nothing more but a cool design.
      Apple should send a designer team to Nokia and design a line there. Let the engineering work up to the engineers, not Apple they never succeeded that.
    • davdav, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I don't know whyd 3c0yn4m3l355 is getting dugg down; he has a valid point.
    • 5ymb10t3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Steve Ballmer is the devil. Nothing against Microsoft, I just think he should be shot. He personifies evil, look at any picture of him or the monkeyboy video, and you'll see what I mean.
    • ScornForSega, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1He's right though.

      When you reduce the functionality of a device to increase the elegance, you essentially eliminate any commercial base you might've had. Without that core of users in a commercial environment, you basically set yourself up for obscurity.
    • Odiwan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1I absolutely love how Steve Ballmer proclaims that if it doesn't have a physical keyboard, it isn't good for business use; that a touch-screen keyboard just can't cut it.

      So: He is either full of it, or he has tried the iPhone's touch-screen keyboard.

      Former, or latter? You decide. Digg up if he is full of it, down if not.



    • stuf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@ProximaC
      "God help you if you're trying to drive, because since you can't feel the keys, you have to watch it the entire time to make sure your finger taps the right location."

      Protip: you don't type while you drive.
    • BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"""Screw the numbers, he flat out lied when he said the iPhone doesn't have a keyboard and wouldn't be worthwhile for email. Maybe he can't wrap his head around the idea that when you are using the email application, a keyboard is on the screen, and when your not, it disappears to allow for optimal use of the iPhone's surface.

      Numbers are one thing, lies are another."""

      Steve Ballmer has little or no regard for the truth, that's quite clear to me - look at his claims that there is Microsoft's "work" and "intellectual property" in Linux and the intimation that anyone who uses it has some sort of legal doubt hanging over them, just because the implication is probably the most positive thing he can do. Nobody knows better than Steve Ballmer, in all likelihood, how unsavoury this is.

      I'm happy with Steve Ballmer running Microsoft though - the man is running the company into the ground, there's no limit to the billions he'll spend without making profit in any given market, he keeps on making people sorry they signed deals with Microsoft, he keeps on squandering good will and public relations, he is "directing" Vista down the pan, and he doesn't actually seem these days to have the knack of market dominance Microsoft is famous for. A bit here, a bit there, they're losing market share in all sorts of areas and it all mounts up.

      Microsoft is becoming a self-righting machine. Once decapitated, it will have the chance to expunge the black, rotting canker of plotting and revenge, and resume making decent software (it's been a LONG time).

      However smart the man is, Steve Ballmer seems consumed by hubris and blind to the idea of just doing the right thing because it's the right thing.

      Maybe that's a trick in itself, but a god complex is a dangerous thing any way you cut it.
  • Kinser, on 10/12/2007, -72/+23Jobs is full of *****, so is Ballmer, but the iphone is laughable.
    • Crustibooga, on 10/12/2007, -17/+43He reminds me of Homer Simpsons sinister twin brother. His conversation was great, kind o' like "We've 25% of the market for the $250 and over bracket, and that 20% is pretty healthy start. We feel that having 15% shows we're right to be competing." I'm sure if he had an hour to speak, he would've reached the correct figure. ;o) Still I'm glad that there is such a high profile monkey boy in the world, he's entertaining in a sinister sort of way (kind of sounds like Bush as well).
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -31/+5well, let's look at that with adult ears.
      - if they had 15% of the market they would assume that they made the right choice to compete in that market
      - to start with 20% would have been great. (obvious, since this is better than 15)
      - but they actually have closer to 25%, which is even better.

      it's nice to hear that you transpose cartoon based fiction on to real life on a day to day basis though. I hope that works out well for you.
    • CLIFFosakaJAPAN, on 10/12/2007, -10/+115I remember when many (including Ballmer) laughed at the first generation iPod.....
    • cooldudevamsee, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17BTW his voice didn't change from his crappy windows 3.11 ad to this.
    • MikeCerm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17Everybody laughed at the first-gen iPod. It was ridiculously overpriced and Mac-only. It took the iPod a few years to catch on, and only did so after iTunes was ported to Windows.
    • Triene, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17The fact that anyone could find the technology used in the iPhone laughable is beyond me. It has its bad points, but there is no denying that it is an amazing piece of technology, and something that other companies should aspire to.

      Remember to consider this as the first generation of the iPhone. It's doubtful that it's going away, and it will only get better over time, just as the iPod did. I'm sure that over the next year and beyond that, we'll be seeing an iPhone that, like the iPod:

      1. Comes in different shapes/sizes/price points/feature sets for different kinds of customers;
      2. Is available on different carriers (that doesn't really apply to the iPod I suppose);
      3. Is available with additional and improved features and applications;
      4. Is even more slim and pretty, and in different colours;
      5. Has more storage capacity.

      I agree they made a pretty big mistake going with one carrier, let alone Cingular, for god's sake, but I'm guessing that we'll be seeing that change eventually.
      I mean, the Razr was only for Cingular at first as well, but we see how that's turned out, now, haven't we?

      ...longer post than expected, sorry.

      Oh, PS: This guy's voice gets on my nerves, and his personality is a close second.
    • brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -11/+14Its true the iPhone is laughable - this is a $600 phone with nonreplaceable battery or memory, requiring a 2-yr Cingular commitment, which is generally valued at $40/mo as a hardware subsidy.

      That makes the iPhone, sans contract, a $1500 2g smartphone with a crappy carrier and 8GB of memory and no keyboard, which is completely absurd.

      Ballmer is absolutely right when he says that iPhone wont appeal to business customers - no CTO is going to order 10,000 $1500 iPhones to replace a more usable Blackberry fleet (Assuming they even used Cingular!).

      There are comperable Windows-mobile based smartphones with real keyboards that can be had for *free* with a 2-yr commitment (T-Mobile MDA recently, for one). Oh and they can do IM and run third-party apps, which Jobs says is dangerous because they could 'crash the network'.

      The only real advantage I can see of the iPhone is that there arent any smartphones I know of which can carry 8GB yet, but thats just a matter of time.
    • weareglass, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The part that made me react the most was when he talked about how business users wouldn't want the iPhone. He then went off on a long tangent about why. Now, I'm not going to dispute his points (even though some have) as to why, but it's a straw man argument. Business does not make up 100% of the phone market. I'd even hazard to guess business users are more in the 25-33% range.

      They DO make up a significant portion of the smartphone market, but this is what Apple is good at. Realizing there is demand for a consumer-oriented smartphone, filling that demand lusciously, charging a premium but laughing to the bank as people who see something they can't find in any other device shell out for their luxury product. I think by the time the dust settles, the people who said "There's no keyboard support" or "PUSH e-mail was implemented half-assed" will look a lot like people who criticized the original iPod for lacking things the rest of the market provided. I don't care if my phone has a tactile keyboard, I'm used to multi-tap, so anything is a step up, and I'd hazard to guess many other consumers are like me.
  • NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -27/+86Ballmer's been whistling past the graveyard ever since it became clear that Longhorn was a disaster. MSFT's shareholders better toss monkey-boy soon, or they have nothing but a slow decline to look forward to.

    -jcr

    • wageslave1, on 10/12/2007, -52/+14Are you kidding? Vista is going to be an unmitigated success. Its not even released yet.

      NSResponder/jcr, are you totally dillusional? "slow decline" huh? The Apple Fanboy hate is simply laughable.
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -40/+19seems everyone that uses vista, legally or not, likes it. Even the odd mac fanboy here and there. Still, keep up with the FUD NSResponder... there are plenty of sheep here on digg willing to follow your tripe infested line of thought.
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -33/+9"Are you kidding? Vista is going to be an unmitigated success. Its not even released yet."

      It was released for purchase on the MSDN back in November and it will soon be released to consumers who will upgrade and push its marketshare way past anthing OSX can muster. I would guess you will retort with something along the lines of, well its not better than OSX! Well, we have learned from apple themselves that you don't have to have a superior product to capture market share, just make it look nice and have people used to it - then it will sell.
    • ray901, on 10/12/2007, -24/+9@wageslave1
      Dug you down simply because you used the very tiresome 'but it is not yet released' excuse. It is plainly FALSE, and even if it wasn't, it is a cop out on your part.
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -18/+6"Until it's not released officially (31th of january) and the drivers are stable (especially those nvidia drivers that are slow and bugged like hell) please stop with all those early judgements on Vista.

      I don't recall anybody judging OS X on the betas that Apple distributes to developers, do I?"

      You can get Vista RTM if you want, whether it be from the MSDN or elsewhere. It is the release. As for the Nvidia Drivers, the newest ones are pretty good - I really don't know what you are talking about. Also, do you know why tons of people don't review or even use the OSX betas? Because nobody cares.
    • ray901, on 10/12/2007, -18/+28@Mythos
      "can you go in a shop and buy vista?"
      I can buy Vista - Vista has been released. Whether or not you think it hasn't does not change a thing. Right now as we speak there are legal purchased copies of Vista running on desktops.
      It does not matter whether it is a business or an individual that can or cant buy them. The fact is Vista has been released. I'm sorry this upsets you so much.
    • ray901, on 10/12/2007, -9/+12@Mythos
      "you can buy it only if you have a business, it's not available to all the consumer maerket."
      So we are agreed then that Vista has been released. (Maybe not to you, but it has been released)

      "If you want to make judgements about speed and stability then you should wait for decent drivers before trying it out."
      Please stop making stuff up, first Vista had not been released then you attribute things to me that were never said. Show me these judgements that I have made.
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/17/gameplay-only-gets-worse-with-vista/ happy reading."

      Using my 7950 GX2 they worked just fine. They used a 7900GTX in the test setup which is the same core.

      My best guess is this.
      " eVGA 122-CK-NF68-AR, LGA 775
      Nvidia nForce 680i SLI, BIOS version 2.053.57"

      I dont think Nvidia has released stable Vista drivers for the Nforce 6 series yet, I use an Intel 965P so maybe that is why.
    • 7of7, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Nvidia's drivers work just fine. In fact I'm running Vista Business right now which I got form MSDNAA and it's running very nicely, using about the same amount of resources as XP and far less than Ubuntu.
    • JustinPM, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3I'd figure gameplay would get much worse if you were using a Mac, as the number of titles would diminish incredibly.
    • NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -10/+18For the record, Vista and Longhorn are not the same thing. Longhorn is the largest software project failure in history, eclipsing the previous record, IBM's "Office Vision" ($900M spent, nada delivered. Looks like a bargain against the $10B+ that Microsoft pissed away on Longhorn.)

      Vista is the face-saving attempt that MS threw together after they tossed out their work in progress, and rolled back to the Windows Server 2003 code base. Look at the feature list that Longhorn was supposed to include. Look at what's actually in Vista. Case closed.

      -jcr

    • Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Nvidia drivers are great, I can run all my opengl games and half-life (inc. counter-strike) without any noticable speed decrease.
    • NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -13/+18wageslave,

      Microsoft's decline has already started. They will lose over 30% of their market share in the next five years, and unless they have a major shareholder revolt that removes at least their top six(!) levels of management, they don't have a prayer of becoming an effective engineering organization again. Longhorn was the last chance for Microsoft with a hell of a lot of customers, and they've blown it. Those customers are not going to wait another six years to see if the next version of windows is finally securable, reliable, or any less of a pain to use. The Mac will pick up the lion's share of the desktops, and Linux and Solaris will pick up most of the server business that Microsoft loses.

      MS has lost their power to set industry directions, just as IBM did in the PS/2-OS/2 debacle. They have lost their inside track on recruitment, because the "spend five years at MS and become a millionaire" story has failed, now that their stock has been stagnant for over three years. No engineer in his right mind who has offers from MS and from Google or Apple would go with Microsoft. They have alienated all of their hardware OEMs, who got royally screwed both by MS's failure to ship Longhorn, and MS's entry into the game console market, as well as their abandonment of the "Plays For Sure" partners suddenly made it very clear to every electronics manufacturer that jumping on MS's latest bandwagon is not a safe move.

      For my part, I'm watching MSFT shares very closely, because when the scale of the longhorn disaster finally becomes clear to Wall Street, there's a fortune to make on MSFT puts.

      -jcr

  • ckr4282, on 10/12/2007, -4/+42Ah, the memories.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSIMeRtVebM
    • crackhammer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Ohhhh yea, that was a good time - and now for the remix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hadxBZWxNrs
    • daeyeth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Oh yes, good memories indeed.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5Kkl-Ii_M&NR
    • anagoge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Best comment thread on YouTube I've ever seen.
    • Triene, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2As many times as I've seen that video, I just realized that he was ALREADY sweaty when he went into the whole developers bit. What's with that? I usually just realized later on that "woah, look how sweaty he is," but really, what is the deal with that?

      And not to mention the voice again...
    • Genesee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3ah, no matter how many times you see those, they still bring a cringe and grimace to your face....

      there can be no better indictment of the modern american corporation than those crowds of employees mindlessly cheering such displays by a man like that.
    • bradleyland, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Somehow, I think that Microsoft would be better off with a bobble head doll for their front man when compared to Steve Ballmer.

      I think I'm in the 1% niche of Mac users who actually don't despise Microsoft products, but it's people like Steve Ballmer who make me embarrased to say so.
  • themulf, on 10/12/2007, -6/+69During the month of December, I think my store sold around 200 ipods to every one zune. Some of the zunes that were purchased were later returned. oh well.
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -12/+35That would be because the Ipod has become a fashion device, mostly because of its design. Microsoft needs to realize that it cannot beat the Ipod with features, but is going to have to out design apple - which I don't think will happen soon.
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -33/+6Here, can I throw in some anecdotal evidence too ?

      I told a friend about the Zune and he told 3 others, who in turn told 7 more and so on. So, because of me everyone in Australia has stopped buying iPods and are now waiting for the Zune to be released.

      Oh, and just for fun, this company who has never entered the car market before released their first car but Ford is outselling it 200 to ! SHOCK !
    • ThankTheCheese, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13@ mirunit
      I agrree, though MS realises this. They're trying to be cool with the whole "welcome to the social" indie thing. Love it or hate it, the zune campaign is smart, but I feel it's trying a bit too hard to be cool.
    • danielman94, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I would believe it. This Christmas and last Christmas, my family and friends have purchased about ten iPods. Sure, the Zune wasn't even around when about half of them were bought, but even if it was, none of us would have bought one. I don't think the Zune will do well, because most of the people in the market have already bought an iPod or a Creative or Sandisk or something else. So, most people want one like they already know how to use and stuff, and if they purchased music, then one where you can play your purchased music. Since Microsoft made it so Plays-For-Sure, their own little group, doesn't work on the Zune, no one's purchased music will play on it. Niiice.
    • Soulhuntre, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Over the holidays I gave 2 iPods as gifts and bought a Zune for myself to replace my own iPod.

      The gifts were iPods because those people are non techies and non early adopters. I wanted them to be able to get help from other friends and so on if somehtign went wrong and / or they needed help with iTunes.

      For me, the Zune has been kickign ass. Bigger screen, subscription based music (all you can eat) has let me experiemt with and discover a lot of music I woudl never have payed $1.99 a song to try and so on. The battery life is fine, it's easy to set up with podcatching and it playes mp3's. It works flawlessly under Vista.

      What, exactly, woudl an iPod do for me that it doesn't besides screem "look! I am cool like Steve Jobs says I should be!"?
    • dropoutfilms, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14If someone bought me a Zune, I'd punch them in the face.
  • featherston, on 10/12/2007, -13/+60How can you not dislike this guy?
    • nbeighley, on 10/12/2007, -3/+53It's too bad Ballmer can't be the 'PC Guy' on the Mac commercials...he would be perfect for the part!
    • daeyeth, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7No, how can you not like this guy? He's adorable. Like Elmer Fudd+Wiley Coyote=double the entertainment.
    • GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -8/+55My dad had the "pleasure" of meeting Ballmer. He said "Are you REALLY doing everything you can to help the stock of Microsoft?".

      Apparently Ballmer went cherry red, and shouted out in the middle of the meeting "DO YOU KNOW HOW ***** MUCH I DO FOR MICROSOFT?! DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH STOCK I HAVE?"

      Heh.
    • ezkiel, on 10/12/2007, -6/+25The most smug, narcissistic, unworthy spokesperson for MSFT.

      I'm voting with my stock. That guy belongs in a used car lot. The old boys club is all that saved him from becoming an average Joe. What he lacks in intelligence and coherence he makes up for on the obnoxious side of things.
    • bradtacs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22how is this a DRM crippled phone? can you not put mp3s on it? can you not put ANY mp4 video on it? you don't need to put anything with DRM on it at all if you don't want to.
    • themacx, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Hey Balmer smile!!! "Apple reports a 78% jump in quarterly profits"... damn funny huh!
    • NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Gawtmilk,

      I'm sure that Ballmer really is doing all he can. The problem is, the entirety of his qualifications for his current position is that he knew Bill Gates in college. I don't fault him for lack of effort; it's just that he's simply not competent for the job he's in. Frankly, Ballmer, Alchin, Gates, and Simonyi created such a horribly disfunctional corporate culture that I'm not sure anyone can save them. Apple had Steve Jobs to turn to. Microsoft doesn't appear to have anyone who cares enough and is capable enough to stick into Ballmer's job and get them back on track.

      -jcr

    • greenreefer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2
      The look on Ballmer's his face is priceless
      when the interviewer asks him how MS will compete with a vaporphone.
      Err, buddy, so far it is millions to zero. Get it?
      Apple gets press like no company I have ever seen.
      Why? Today on CNN, big news about corporate corruption, then seg to Apple news about...
      Profits from iPods.
      Okay. Nevermind.
      ****
      As far as cool phones, I really like the Nokia N95. Pricey though.
      Nice pics of it here:
      http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/26/nokias-n95-smartphone-goes-legit/
  • jejones, on 10/12/2007, -9/+40Laugha while you can, Monkey Boy!
  • btor, on 10/12/2007, -8/+21A chimp is a chimp is a chimp!
    • fermi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9How many bananas do you think his salary would buy?
    • hansamurai, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5A lot more bananas than you'll be over to buy over a lifetime.
    • themacx, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5a chimp's IQ is 75.. Balmer has 20... go figure.
    • piper999, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1He has 20 chimps? He really is king of the monkeys.
  • Gunsmith, on 10/12/2007, -12/+3i'll take my sandisk sansa over both of them anyday
  • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -9/+33I like the Iphone but he is right. Its the same price as a PS3, for what? So 500$, plus a 2 year cingular lock-in and we should all buy it just because its apple?
    • ronmexico, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10@mirunit

      You mean like the $40 games you have to buy once you purchase a PS3?
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -12/+8"You mean like the $40 games you have to buy once you purchase a PS3?"

      They are 60$, but when you count in the monthly cingular charge + accessories it doesn't really matter anymore. Iphone is really like Apples PS3, if not please elaborate.
    • ronmexico, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18It's a fully function phone and iPod that costs a lot of money, I don't get where you're coming from. It's not like you're gaining a phone bill, I'm sure you currently have one. We shouldn't buy it because it's Apple, we should buy it because it's really an incredible device. If you don't think so, don't get one, I won't be offended.
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14To use the Iphone properly you will need some sort of data service, 3G or EDGE, which cost extra..

      "We shouldn't buy it because it's Apple, we should buy it because it's really an incredible device."
      It really is cool looking, but does a bubbly interface, tons of DRM, no openness for application developers, and a huge price tag make it really incredible? The truth here is that alot of people will buy it, just because its Apple.
    • AggroBoy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19Last time I checked the iPhone was not (yet):

      - a follow on to the most successful product in it's space
      - intended to dominate it's chosen market
      - a year late
      - based on unproven processor technology that looks like failing to deliver
      - pushed by a marketing department that think it's a great great idea to insult their customers ...
      - ... and blatantly lie to them
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Ahem. I'd just like to clear up one thing. You said the iPhone has "tons of DRM" .. but you see, iPods and iPhones don't have DRM. It's not like this is a hard concept to grasp. The iTunes STORE has DRM, but NOT the iPod or the iPhone ... or even iTunes in general. MY iTunes and iPod are happily DRM-free thankyouverymuch."

      Still, that is if you decide to 1) Buy CD's or 2) Pirate the music. We are talking about consumers in general.
    • idean360, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1DRM isnt a problem with the iPhone, most people here will just download the music off P2P, iTunes will accept it, and it will transfer to their iPhones...DRM is only a problem if you want it to be.
    • aa90digg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Yeah, what Balmer and everybody else for that matter is forgeting is that it's NOT only a phone.
      It's a phone + an Ipod + possibly the smallest wireless CPU there is!
      For $500 it's pretty good.
      Anybody remenbers the Origami? (Yeah nobody that's what I thought) Well Samsung was selling its version for $1099. And it's a brick.

      And the Treo when it first came out was about $600 (I know I wanted one but couldn't afford it)

      The fact that Balmer doesn't understand that the Iphone is not just a phone and could bet his money on a failure of the Iphone based on the pricepoint prove that guy is not fit for his job.

      I mean if I were a windows shareholder, I'd be worried.
  • v3rb4t1m, on 10/12/2007, -12/+81.go to japan
    2.buy high tech cell phones
    3.????
    4.profit
    • t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Oh, and get in major trouble with the FCC (for some reason, they own the airwaves...)
  • joel8x, on 10/12/2007, -3/+55Every time I see this guy talk I am reminded of how perfectly he is portrayed in Pirates of Silicon Valley. Big dumb drunken jock.
  • wageslave1, on 10/12/2007, -20/+38"Explosive Laughter" isnt exactly a proper description here. Id say mild chuckle. I thought the interview made him look human and sincere. He answered the questions, was respect full of the marketplace and competition (which gives a tip-o-the-hat to delivering what people want...).

    Whats with the hate? Sure, the monkey boy thing was funny, but it was sincere. Ballmer may not be as suave as Jobs, but given the opportunity, Id rather spend time with an awkward Ballmer, happy and excited than a cold, condescending hipster like Jobs appears to be.

    He smiled, laughed a little, answered honestly, what the hell is wrong with the AppleFanboys on this site? Are you all that delusional?
    • CLIFFosakaJAPAN, on 10/12/2007, -20/+16@wageslave1

      Were you watching the same video as us? Did you not see Ballmer rocking back-and-forth with his response about the iPhone taking away the spotlight from Microsoft? He slams the iPhone immediately and very 'gleefully' and reluctantly shows a little bit of decorum when he probably realized how defensive he sounded
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -19/+14lest not forget, all the many many underhanded (read childish) jibes at microsoft apple make year on year. It's quiet pathetic, especially considering the fact microsoft invested heavily in apple back when things were looking far from peachy for the company.
    • r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -14/+15"It's quiet pathetic, especially considering the fact microsoft invested heavily in apple back when things were looking far from peachy for the company."

      Yes MS "Invested" $150mill in Apple, coincidentally around the time MS was being sued by Apple for stealing technology/code from Quicktime. And coincidentally, after the "investment" that lawsuit went away! Yes there is a connection there.

      Cross-licensing of technology/patents was also included in that "investment deal", so that Apple couldn't sue MS for anything else that MS may/may not have borrowed/innovated from Apple.

      Sounds more like a "pay-off" than investment to me. I hate this 150mill being brought up all the time by the MS fans, who clearly choose to forget the impending lawsuit at the time.
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8actually. look back at your apple / microsoft history. There's plenty of it still online.
      http://www.applematters.com/index.php/section/history/2006/08/26/
      http://lowendmac.com/orchard/06/0825.html
      http://news.com.com/MS+to+invest+150+million+in+Apple/2100-1001_3-202143.html

      some quotes from the above sites.

      - "Without warning, Apple filed suit against Microsoft in federal court on March 17, 1988 for violating Apple's copyrights on the "visual displays" of the Macintosh. (Apple also filed suit against HP for its NewWave environment that ran on top of Windows 2.0.)"
      - "Apple argued, basically, that GUI operating system was property of Apple. Microsoft countered with by citing a letter that allowed Microsoft to use some Apple technology in exchange for certain programming concessions. The lawsuit dragged on for six years"
      - "The lawsuit was decided in Microsoft's favor on August 24, 1993"
      - "Apple appealed the ruling and made it all the way to the Supreme Court, which declined to hear the case"

      - "The news, [of microsoft investing $150m] coupled with Steve Jobs's announcements of new Apple board members, pushed the company's stock up more than 40 percent in morning trading." - nicely favourable for Steve
      - "Analysts said that Microsoft's assurance of providing its latest applications on the Macintosh may be more important to the company's long-term viability than the $150 million investment."
      - "Gates even suggested that Microsoft might produce the next version of Office first for the Mac. That's a notable commitment from Microsoft. If they withdrew Office support, that would have been the straw to break Apple's back." - charitable, considering there wasn't at the time, and some might argue, still isn't, a decent alternative to office on the mac.

      compared to how much money apple had in the bank at the time, the moneys that microsoft injected in to apple - whether you agree to the reasons behind it or not - , as well as the software commitments they promised, were a huge commitment for apple. Rightly, it favoured both companies. Please don't do the usual apple fanism, and deny that apple benefited at all from the deal... they did, and it marked a turning point for the company.
    • CeltiCowboy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8OK, an admitted Apple FanMan here (haven't been a "boy" for 33 years). Also an AMD Fan, who runs XP Pro on homebrew machines. The $150 Mil MS invested in Apple was indeed as pointed out, after they were sued by Apple and a drop in the bucket in Apple's cash flow.

      But. The first non-Apple app for the Macintosh, the one that made the Mac usable in the office environment, and in many ways helped it survive, was Multiplan. Remember Multiplan? You know it today as Excel, and it was released for Macs first. By Microsoft.

      Bill Gates liked the Mac interface so much, he tried to license it for PCs. When he was denied, he copied it and came up with Windows.

      So yes, Microsoft did invest in the Mac early on, and not with cash but with the first viable business application. And no matter how Microsoft FanPeople spin it, Windows is STILL a copy of the Mac GUI, and never catches up - always copies the newest from Apple.

      Apple is the innovator. They create new products, with new features, and everyone else tries to keep up.

      And to beat you to it, yes, Xerox came up with the mouse and GUI, but went nowhere with it beyond proof of concept. Both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were at that original demonstration, and it was Jobs (and Woz) who had the light come on. Gates, who had started by copying QDOS (later PC DOS), had to be convinced that GUIs were the future. All Microsift has ever done is take someone else's development, copy it, and market their version as innovative. They made their money giving away the operating system and charging for support.

      Ballmer will continue to laugh at each new Apple device, because he knows MS will copy it, throw tons of cash behind marketing it, and made tons more profit after another company has developed and proven the concept.
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3"All Microsift has ever done is take someone else's development, copy it,"

      explain to me how this is different from what apple did to xerox? what stevej, woz, bill, etc saw was not a proof of concept, it was a very functional product. Whether apple copied their OS from xerox or microsoft copied it from apple or xerox is neither here nor there. Both apple and microsoft are not the true innovators, or were not at that point in time.

      to argue your point by claiming microsoft has been totally devoid of innovation since that point in time is rediculous, many user interface innovations have made their way from windows to macos - yet the average macboy conveniently forgets that.

      you get a digg for at least a semi decent counter-comment, celticowboy. :)
    • hurfydurfur, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@CeltiCowboy:

      Thanks for the recap. But even with the history, it's really not about buying a product that has an original history. People will buy Vista based on Vista alone, they don't care if they copied anyone. Even though I run all three (Gentoo, OSX, XP) at home I find myself crying when they don't even attempt to understand the carbon copy.

      1. C:\Documents and Settingsusername moved to C:\Usersusername
      Mac has /Users/username. They're killing me here. There's no justification like the Konfabulator-Dashboard thing. They could have picked anything or even left it in place. The poor Citrix farms or apps with hardcoded paths. Think of the children!
      2. You can drag favorite folders to the left in Explorer? Omg copied Finder, which is a bad idea because FTFF.

      It's just more frustrating than fanboyism. I want people to see that you can drag and drop install firefox. That you can move a game to another drive without getting into a registry mess (with "are you sure?" popup). That Yojimbo, Acquisition, Xfactor and Textmate are good because of the underlying platform. That these apps are familiar because Mac users have seen the design and components before. It's just more niceness that doesn't get communicated outside of the community because people are prejudice. People hate computers because most people run Windows and Windows is verbosely complicated for techs sake. The Mac is an exercise in optimism that software won't grind our information society into a bitterly overwhelmed and confused society. That hardware is simple but software is art.
    • aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@jrbrewin: What is it with you people and Xerox? They never brought that technology to market and Apple not only paid them Apple stock for access to the technology but they also hired away the main engineers. It was only later that Xerox began to realize the potential of the GUI.

      I also wonder if the Lisa team were already working on a GUI long before the visit to Xerox Parc. If you compare the Xerox GUI of that time with what Apple was working on and then look at the windows versions, you can clearly see that they took ideas from the Apple GUIs rather than Xerox.
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1 aristotle0dude - "you people and xerox"

      you people? you mean people question the diatribe of FUD and lies spread about by the mass of apple fanboys. whether they invested, or hired is still not the point. It was not apples' research that they stole.

      Secondly, if you want to use that argument, accept the fact that apple have gladly taken investment and support from microsoft from a very early point, and still do, yet people are more than willing to jump on the "microsoft copied apple" bandwagon, when by your standards it's exactly the same as what apple did to xerox.

      Believe what you like about lisa, but apple were not that far ahead to out-do xerox, especially given the fact that they had to pay off xerox to let them steal their ideas and concepts.

      sadly for you. apple took microsoft to court over the whole copying deal, and it failed to reach a positive conclusion (for apple) twice.
  • Browncoat, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1is it just me or does youtube appear to have been hijacked? I try going there and it goes in constant refresh mode could be my browser but everything else works and I was just on youtube about an hour ago
  • ivanov, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Bagging Apple's iPhone pricing strategy then claming to have a marketshare (of some debatable proportions) of the top end of the mp3 player market? So what's the diff?
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1the iphone isn't an phone, of course. it's an ipod. steve tells us it is to ease any potential legal issues with other phone developers that might want to use the iphone name. *rolleyes*
  • calvey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21Just on the off chance that anyone from Microsoft's PR department reads this : Steve Ballmer is not likable. K ?

    Keep him off television, off radio, and off any recordable or broadcastable media. He is the epitome of what is wrong with Microsoft and I am reminded of exactly where the company is headed and why each and every time I see this jackass.

  • sshack, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24Reminds me of a used car salesman.
  • justintsmith, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27did anyone else notice the look of insane fury in balmers eyes when the interviewer said Steve jobs?

    watch again. it scared the ***** out of me
    • fanboydcs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2northerngeek,

      Your clueless,

      "Apple still won't give user-replaceable batteries, took a long time to give video or widescreen features to the ipod, still won't allow an Ipod to be used with two machines etc And what about all that stuff Jobs said about how nobody wants a flash based ipod ("They just sit in the draw") an how video in Ipods would never catch on, they tell their fans when it's right for them to want things that everybody else has had for a long time already.

      Geez, you're right I'm gonna go back to Apple again and let them tell me what I want."

      Apple offers a battery replacement for $59 dollars on their website which I believe swaps out the entire ipod for a new one, I just did this and mine is brand new, or I could have easily went to compusa or frys and bought a battery for $20 dollars, and popped open my own ipod. Its not hard.

      They took a long time to come out with a video ipod and even said that nobody wants a video ipod because no one really uses it other than the geeks. Im sorry ask anyone, I go to college with alot of people that bought an video ipod the day it came out because it sounded cool to put video on it, but NO one uses it for that. an iPod is always bought as a music device first. Also apple wanted to have a video download service, and they needed to provide the content so people would have an easy experience putting video on the ipod. I would say a very small % of people use video on their ipod.

      The iPod can be used with two machines, just put it in Manual mode.

      Jobs never said noone wanted a flash based ipod, but he may have said no one wants a small capacity flash ipod.


  • sexualaj, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13Same ol' Microsoft knowing what there customers want without actually asking them/
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -15/+15Err, if anyone is guilty of that it's Apple.

      Did you read Steve Jobs' WSJ interview ? He went on about how customers don't want an open phone, they don't want choices, blah blah. Hell, it's present in all their products, I mean, do you have as many hardware choices as you do with a PC ? Nope.

      Microsoft may think they know what customers want, but Apple does it too, if not worse.
    • northerngeek, on 10/12/2007, -13/+14"Same ol' Microsoft knowing what there customers want without actually asking them/ "

      Eh?
      Microsoft did what many asked for of the 360 (dashboard updates, introuction of IPTV etc)
      Microsoft listened to many about the way Office should look an function and the way Vista works

      Apple still won't give user-replaceable batteries, took a long time to give video or widescreen features to the ipod, still won't allow an Ipod to be used with two machines etc And what about all that stuff Jobs said about how nobody wants a flash based ipod ("They just sit in the draw") an how video in Ipods would never catch on, they tell their fans when it's right for them to want things that everybody else has had for a long time already.

      Geez, you're right I'm gonna go back to Apple again and let them tell me what I want.
  • UnimatrixZer0, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15One of the configurations of the first iPod was US$499 - and look where it is now. Laugh at that, bitch.
  • avatarpalin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4God I love that executive speak.. it's like a secret language....

  • mattjumbo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+26"there are plenty of sheep here on digg willing to follow your tripe infested line of thought..."

    It always amuses me when I hear the folks using Windows, along with 95% of the rest of the world, call Mac users, with 5 % of the market, sheep.

    I mean zealots? Fine. Fanboys? Fine. But sheep? Do you even understand what the word means? Just to be clear you are saying that the Mac folks who comprise 5 percent or so of the market are "sheep" and the folks who comprise the rest of the *95 percent* of the market are what, freethinkers?
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -13/+3Apple users are all, like, "One of us! One of us!"

      MY mommy got me a Dell, because she heard they're the best!
    • Quag, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5I believe the sheep reference was pointing to the fact that whenever an issue arises with MS vs. Apple, no matter what the facts are in any direction, an Apple "sheep" will follow his herd to the side against MS.
    • Toast1185, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1what is the statistically significant level of market share that Apple needs to attain in order to call some of their users sheep? Please cite your source... unless of course it can be a judgment decision based on an individuals personality, maybe the fact that he switched because of that trendy neato 'mac guy' on TV
    • klawz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Being "sheep" really has nothing to do with total numbers. It's a mindset.
  • macewan, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3He needs to take acting classes - his performance was sad and kinda embarrassing. Not the type behavior you would expect from a company like Microsoft.
  • naio21, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Word of advice for Cliffy: Balmer don't give a DAMN for your advices...
    • CLIFFosakaJAPAN, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Actually, he did give a DAMN. He even cried...
  • Paroparo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8This guy should stick to making music videos.

    "Developers, developers, developers, developers..."
  • rabiddogma, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11"Doesn't appeal to business customers?"

    The first thing all the business people I know said when they saw the iPhone was "I want one now!" The big innovative thing that really appeals to business people is the non-linear voice mail feature.

    The Zune was about 5 years too late. The iPhone is the real iPod killer.
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Yeah, and the Xbox was 15 years late and people called that a failure in the first few months.

      See, there are morons on both sides who don't have any patience.

      Also, from all I've read (From sites like Ars, WSJ, etc) and heard (People with smart phones), they want an iPhone but they won't get one because of lacking third-party software, cheaper, etc.

      Serious business users will not go with the iPhone unless there are numerous changes.
    • halik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm pretty sure he meant the market that goes after pocketpc phones (doctors) and blackberries/treos (corporate users)... in that he's 100% correct.
    • Quix, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2"Yeah, and the Xbox was 15 years late and people called that a failure in the first few months." - estvir

      estvir, the Xbox is still a money pit for Microsoft. Do you know how much they've lost on that thing over the years? Yet you're going to imply that it's a success?

      Strange logic. Though I suppose strange logic is required to remain a dedicated Microsoft defender.
  • novaworks, on 10/12/2007, -11/+8Regardless of what he says - the pertinent point is that most people (myself included) simply want to see Microsoft fail in everything they do.

    Why? Because they are a huge monopoly and their products are crap.

    Zune - case in point - why would anybody with half a brain cell by a Zune when you can get an iPod for the same price.
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8We're in the social! Duh!
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17Why would they want a Zune ?

      - Bigger screen
      - WiFi
      - Subscription
      - Integration with X360, Windows, etc
      - Better GUI
      - Customisation

      .. etc. But than again, people would want an iPod because of:

      - More choices
      - Games
      - iTunes
      - Trend

      .. etc.

      ----

      People like you who "want Microsoft to fail in everything they do" really need to go outside (As hypocritical as that is). It's a corporation, they want your money, so does Apple and Apple has many 'evil' things (DRM, TPM, etc) as do many other 'good' companies like Google.
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"Regardless of what he says - the pertinent point is that most people (myself included) simply want to see Microsoft fail in everything they do.

      Why? Because they are a huge monopoly and their products are crap.

      Zune - case in point - why would anybody with half a brain cell by a Zune when you can get an iPod for the same price."

      Why would I buy a zune? Screen size, and a few features that the Ipod does not have. Also, if their monopoly gives me Xbox + Operating systems that are already supported by the majority of the worlds developers, then thats fine with me. If you want to compete, you need to make a better product - thats what a free market is about. I don't really want any company to fail, the more companies the more competition. I would have no problem carrying around and Ipod and running Itunes on Vista while playing Halo PC and watching an X360 slideshow on my Sony TV. Brand loyalty is stupid.
    • SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Well see I like my iPod because it doesn't DRM my music that isn't DRM'd to start with, it only applies DRM to stuff I buy from the store... unlike the Zune...

      I'll stick my neck out here - I like the look of the Zune (ok, maybe not the brown one...), and the UI looks impressively intuitive, more so than the iPod (before the iPhone came along). The screen is very nice.

      However the Windows software for the Zune is atrocious, it doesn't play with Plays for Sure (absolutely assenine IMHO), and it is all DRM'd to hell and back. It also doesn't work on anything but Windows, but that's a minor point as most people with iPods use Windows anyway...

      If you took the Zune hardware and UI and applied some reasonable fair use principles to it, wrote an iTunes killing app for the PC, you'd kill the iPod in an instant. Sounds easy doesn't it - well it's not!
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"it is all DRM'd to hell and back."

      Both the Ipod and the Zune and the IPhone are DRM laden. The Solution - Buy CD's and straight rip them. You get higher quality sound plus you can do whatever you want with the music.
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13> Well see I like my iPod because it doesn't DRM my music that isn't DRM'd to start with, it only applies DRM to stuff I buy from the store... unlike the Zune...

      Yeah, the Zune DOESN'T do that either, hell, it doesn't even put DRM on songs which are transfered wireleslly (The restriction is in the software on the Zune), where the hell are you getting your info ? I'll take a wild guess and assume it has "mac" in the domain name.

      Good job believing any anti-MS FUD, you're awesome.
    • jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2if the zune DRMs non-DRM content. then so does the ipod. and so does your mum!
    • t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1- Bigger screen
      Wow, half an inch. Same number of pixels though, so the iPod's screen looks way better.

      - WiFi
      For... ummm... ruining your sound quality and sending other people heavily DRM'd music?

      - Better GUI
      Better? A matter of opinion, but I don't think it is.

      - Customisation
      For what? How?
  • Laurent, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19Where is the explosion of laugher?
  • mtappenden, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1The 30GB iPod is $249. So Zune's 25% doesn't include that. And Microsoft doesn't make cellphones. They're scared, leave Ballmer be.
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"And Microsoft doesn't make cellphones."

      They make the OS that runs on millions of smartphones. A sale for (cellphone maker) is a sale for Microsoft.
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Earlier comments on the matter were just averaging. Ballmer specifically says "$249 and over."

      I would still not take his comments without a dumptruck-load of salt right now, though. (It needs a similar dumptruck-load of corresponding data. And that which measures consumer sales, not reflects just how many Zunes are still sitting on shelves in the retail channel.)
  • blurplevtx, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9Wow, for someone who supposedly has business sense, he ain't very smart.
    • kickarse, on 10/12/2007, -11/+3"Isn't very smart." I suppose you don't claim to possess proper English either.
    • tdowling, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3kickarse, you just corrected him by presenting a sentence fragment. I don't think that you can possess "English" either. Perhaps you meant "English language skills"?
  • sandkiller, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3 -> Video Section
  • monkeymagik, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9wtf? the first thing he says is it doesn't have a QWERTY keypad. has he even seen the footage?
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Obviously he's talking about an actual physical one.
    • aragami, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13have you ever tried typing on a on screen keyboard on a pda (present in most pdas for at least 10 years i might add) its a pain in the ass, he was referring to a actual physical keyboard which would be an advantage for business users as its a damn sight easier to type on (perhaps a lil nifty add on mini keyboard apple)?


      then again the iphone isn't aimed at business users its aimed at fanboys and people who buy things because its fashionable (which face it, is why the ipod is so popular anyway)
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5@ aragami

      Have you tried typing on the iPhone's screen-based equivalent with prediction? A lot of the business-types seem to rate it pretty well in the overall world of typing.

      The jury is out on who will prefer what (and certainly it would take time to get used to it), but it is not an automatic loss. Also, it can be updated and modified to fit your needs, so we'll just see how it's received after it's had extensive testing. ;-)

      Certainly the iPhone is better for dialing out on. I just worry about the fingerprints... Heh.
  • eizooo, on 10/12/2007, -10/+9what a douchbag
  • imac79, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3Did he have pit stains on his shirt again? Wear deodorant dude!! I was shocked he was not running around laughing like a hyena. Balmer Blows!!
  • macen, on 10/12/2007, -11/+0can someone plz help me by telling me where i can find a generater for lyrics or something that generates music lyrics.plz it would be gr8tly appreciated.thanx!
  • jakdracula, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I liked him better in "Young Frankenstein". That part where he does "Puttin' on the Ritz" with Gene Wilder is classic.
    • cardinal91, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was JUST thinking of that!!! heh
  • AClayeJ, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Seeing as how the iPhone cost about the same as the PS3, I see it doing just about as well too. lol

    Oh BTW: Someone please buy Jobs a new shirt, he's been wearing that same ole black turtleneck for the last 10 yrs.
    • SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4The iPod used to cost the same as a PS3... The PS2 used to cost nearly as much as the PS3... look at both of them now... do your homework...
    • AClayeJ, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The PS2 used to cost $600? When was that?
    • SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3I said 'nearly as much'. However much it cost it was a crapload more than it costs now, and the price has fallen significantly over time. Get the idea?
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"The PS2 used to cost nearly as much as the PS3"

      The high end PS3 is 600. PS2 was 300. 1/2 the price.

      As for the Ipod, yeah it sold great, but that was largely after the release of the Ipod Mini which cost alot less than the initial Ipods.
    • Karyyk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7SVPirate: You're an idiot, and a hypocrite. Do your homework before you tell someone else to do it for you. The PS2 was NEVER in the $500-$600 range, and debuted at $299 (much to the chagrin of Sega whose Saturn was at $399). The only other systems released here to be in the PS3's price range were the CDi & 3DO, both of which were trying to push was was then a very expensive optical media format and marketed themselves as 'multimedia entertainment systems' as opposed to simple game consoles (by the time 3DO realized that game software is what sold, it was too late, and Philips never did with the CDi).

      Then you correct yourself with "nearly as much." Hmmm...$599 - $299 = $300 (or if you want to go with the $499 model, a difference of $200). Unless you're that moneybags dude from monopoly, the last time I checked a difference of $200-$300 is a considerable one.
  • EvilTesdall, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3Doesn't microsoft own 49% of apples shares?
    • AClayeJ, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3Yes, roflmao
    • SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Actually I don't believe Microsoft own anything like 49% of Apple's shares. I can't pin down an exact number in my lunch break here, but it's certainly not a significant number/percentage of the company. It's also far from clear if they are voting or non-voting stockholders either, I think the shares have been converted to voting stocks, but again I can't pin down the facts in a short time.
    • SaintStryfe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8You both are talking out of your butts. When MS and Apple made a joint venture in '97 or so, MS got 1% non-voting stock. They then proceeded to sell it as soon as Apple started to get it's momentum back in the stock market. So they likely have little or no financial interest in the company, only a business one (that is, making money off of the MBU software).
  • autoy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7No, Mr. Ballmer, the iPhone is not that expensive to even get close to the top 10 most expensive mobiles in the world:

    http://www.dialaphone.co.uk/blog/?p=73
    • Duelist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Except that he was referring to mass-produced phones, and not jewel-encrusted or limited-edition luxury phones.

      :|
  • Nuknuk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8First time I saw this Steve Balmer. He looks offensive and has 0 charm as a CEO or future CEO. Not very good for Microsoft.
    • t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If you care about your sanity, make it the last time too :)
  • Thex1138, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Balmer is so out of touch, Zune is dead and Balmer's flogging it repeatedly..
    We will pay for the iPhone Steve'y boy! get with the picture!

    The street is talking Apple iPhone...not Loony-Zunes!

    Microsoft..the incumbent behemoth...reactive.. pro-active!
    • aragami, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3actually the street is talking wii :-)

      and the zune isn't dead yet, hell its not even out in europe asia or australia yet is it? its been out what 2 whole months,

      personally im waiting for someone to get a linux based os working on the zune then im going to buy one over the ipod :-)
      primarily because a zune with a open source os will rock with that screen and wifi and because everyone wants ipods it'll be cheaper and secondly because although the ipod is a great mp3 player, they break too easily for my liking, you can't replace the battery on your own and every bugger else owns one
    • Thex1138, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yup I know....I got one...this topic is about iPhone and Balmer dude..... ;-)
    • aragami, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1that is true, if we're talking strictly cell phones then most people i know haven't even actually heard of the iphone, they're pretty much hyped about the new nokia n series phone :-),


      although personally i just want my new SE phone to hurry up and arrive :-)
  • wilhoitm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Ballmer clearly looked like a cornered Rat and he even could not even hide it! Is this the best Microsoft can do for a CEO?
  • skipere, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sound like they get publicly personal . When business get personal , it will get really ugly. It will interesting in the months a head.
  • nomojunkscience, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2We all WIN from having two companies competing for our OS, laptop, desktop, mp3 player business. Just like we are the winners from having Intel vs AMD or Ati vs Nvidia. These companies want you to be a fanboi because it makes their job easier. Competition=better stuff at lower prices. I doubt I'll ever use a macintosh because I'm into gaming but I certainly want them to give MS a run for their money if it makes them keep improving on Windows
    • furyritchie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1AMD, ATI and nVidia were all taken to court over price rigging allegations recently. So so much for competition making things cheaper ;)
    • Chicken2nite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It might not make things cheaper, but the products will certainly become more user friendly.

      The iPhone is raising the bar in terms of what a cell phone can do, and also offers users a uniform DRM scheme which they can buy into for every conceivable avenue, so that they would only have to buy the movie/song/tv show once to watch/listen to on their ipod/computer/tv. For Microsoft to compete with the iPod/AppleTV combo they will need to create a uniform DRM scheme of their own, something that would let you play movies and tv shows and music on your Zune and Xbox 360.

      Of course the only way I'll buy into any DRM scheme is if I'm given an all-you-can-eat option ala the Zune music service. That to me would be the perfect option for tv shows so long as they could come up with a smart way to manage the royalties payments (most of the guilds have forsaken royalties from new media, having moved too slowly in the past to keep up, leaving them in a similar position to the musical artists when it comes to downloads).
  • ExSlashdotter, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I dont see why he's so ammused with the iPhone's $500 price. Have you looked at the price of a Treo these days? Right around the $500 mark. You only get a discount on them if you're signing up for a new plan. They're not offering those 'sign-up discounts' on the iPhone because they won't have to right at the get-go.

    Sure, you can get a Q for $99, but if you buy it *straight out* without a new subscription, its still $400-something dollars.

    And let me tell you, I've got a Q and you'd have to shoot me before i'd try to listen to music on it. Surfing the web is also *painful*. But as a sysadmin, I still buy them for my company for one reason: ActiveSync. When the iPhone has full Exchange functionality, I'll switch to them no problem (disclaimer: our company is 70% mac / 30% windows)
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"(disclaimer: our company is 70% mac / 30% windows)"

      Well that puts you in the vast minority.
    • wality, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3You're not buying the iPhone straight out (2 year Cingular contract) so don't compare it to a Smartphone without a contract. You can get a Dash, Q, Blackjack, ect. for hundreds less and they do everything the iPhone can do except automatically rotate the screen. No real keyboard, no Exchange, no memory card, no 3G, no 3rd party apps, and hundreds more - yeah I think I'll pass. I'm going to burst out in laughter too when I see the fanboys mail in their hard earned money to Jobs just to be cool with crippled technology.
  • dime, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6As much as I dislike Microsoft, this is really grasping as straws.
    • joaob, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5as much as I like you, it is grasping AT straws.
    • dime, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4No coffee. Brain not fully operational.
  • Machismo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10Balmer had every right to laugh. the iPhone is NOT for businesses. Smart Phones have succeeded because businesses see them as useful and are more ready and willing than the average consumer to dump 400 or 500 dollars on it.

    The iPhone will do well, and he admits it.
    The iPhone is the most expensive phone in the world is what he laughed. And if you disagree, you are a zealot, not an objective consumer.
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Depends which business people you're talking about, I suppose. The IT folk get their Treos working well enough and can deal with the glitches, but there's a reason Blackberries took off like a shot in the business community, and the iPhone in many ways continues in that direction. (i.e. "simplicity, ease of use, etc.")

      Provided the iPhone is stable and can be hooked up to a company's subsystems, it may well be appealing to lots of business folk. There are a lot more marketers and management types out there, after all. ;-)
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Also: Management likes shiny status symbols. It's true! The also make budgetary decisions for their departments.

      Funny how that works, no?
    • haloguy628, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1In all due respect, but I can hardly believe that any business will be installing iTunes on corporate IT network. If you belive that then you are smoking some strong stuff.
  • SirBotchness, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5don't really give a *****, seems anything apple makes it to the front page no matter what the topic is.
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2It gives them teh impression that Apple is bigger than what it really is.

      It drives them nuts that outside the internet, Apple is almost nonexistent.
    • shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1*yawn*
    • cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Huzzah, flag is back! It's been so long...

      Perhaps I've just been blessed to be missing your posts? Nevertheless...
  • fremeer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Zune is crippled but has good ideas. its like the psp, had awesome ideas but due to lack of support fell on its arse. The homebrew comm saved it.
    iPhone i think at the moment is just a cash in to the current trendwhores. I cant wait to hear the complaints about battery(good idea apple full size screen+talk+mp3 and no ability to swap battery) the screen scratching easily and the price for something that from what ive seen is too bulky and wide to be a good mobile. From what ive heard america has a very crappy cell phone contracts so being locked into a contract is pretty *****.
    The dream is having a good phone with linux support.
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"From what ive heard america has a very crappy cell phone contracts so being locked into a contract is pretty *****. "

      You heard right. Contracts are really bad, Currently I have cingular because it offers the best service in my area - but I do not have a contract and own an unlocked SE phone.
  • diman, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2When will everyone wake up to the fact that the Jan 9th announcement at Macworld was significant not for the "iPhone" but because of the name change from "Apple Computer Inc" to "Apple Inc".

    Apple teamed with Google, Yahoo and various Telcos will provide the next generation of Mobile Internet Devices and Services to consumers worldwide.

    My prediction: 5th Generation Apple Mobile will allow users to video chat, shop, pay bills, vote and listen to music.

    Steve Bummer can try and beat that - but he wont!
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