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The new Macmini is the perfect HDTV HTPC

hdbeat.com — The new Macmini is everything I hoped it would be. Here is why it is perfect as a HTPC. It has more than enough power, support HDTV outputs and SPDIF outputs. Not to mention a remote!

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  • macgabriel87, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1nice. i guess the intel mac mini is worthy of something. i thought it was just like the original mac mini with just tiny enhancements. but what im looking for a mac mini is power. and a 1.66ghz duo core with integrated gfx is just good enough for well...movies. 700 bucks just to play movies and audio doesn't blow my mind. but i dont hate the mac mini, its just not what i expected from apple
  • Philotic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"I am of course assuming that the Core Solo 1.5 is fast enough to decode H.264 HD material."

    From TFA.

    I would love a mac mini as a HTPC as well, but I will bide my time and let folks like this guy work out all the kinks.
  • hamster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm somewhat sceptical if it can play 1080p as well. We'll see. I won't buy one until then either.
  • Ignignokt01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0tiny enhancements??? in order to play HD quality films at high high resolutions in such a small package this thing must be a BEAST...im sure it will cost an assload
  • kevinrosesmom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I wasn't as dissapointed by the lack of a Macmini PVR as most, but I am curious as to where the HD content on iTunes is. The new mini screams "Play HD content on me!" but where are current users to get this content? If you don't have some sort of PVR where you can (legally) record, transfer to the mini, and watch there, you're left with buying some sort of 3rd party tuner or Apple's movie trailers (which is cool and all, but not completely satisfying.)

    Will I pay $1.99 for iPod resolution TV shows? A few here and there (I have bought some, I do like the convenience over BT), but not seriously. Would I pay $1.99 to watch TV shows at my own convenience in HD and be able to download them with the same convenience as the current offerings? HELL YES I WOULD.
  • mrfx, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2This is the worst most expensive computer ever bult for consumers......anywone person thinks for one min these are good in any shape or form needs to open a computer book!
  • gubatron, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0it lacks a microphone input, you'll have to buy an USB one, I think that sucks, specially if you spent like a $100 on a super duper plantronic's headset and mic in one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the diagram doesn't show any holes for microphones (unless you can use the Line In)
  • zybch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I gott admit I was expecting something a 'little' more powerful than a cruddy 1.6 duo with intel video (it uses intel for the video as well right).
    For normal definition stuff, it looks quite nice, although they NEED to lower the price a LOT.
    No doubt apple have 'plans' for the new datacentre they just bought regarding itunes video...
  • vhold, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What kind of support does it have for custom resolutions to compensate for HDTV overscan?
  • boshaus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4and you can get one free at http://minimacs.freepay.com/?r=14096214 ! as long as you can get 10 friends to sign up. Ah the fun of pyramid schemes. They had their site updated with the new mac specs within about 30 minutes of the release. I was impressed. If I end up getting it I'll probably return it to the apple store and ugprade it to the Duo and just pay the difference. I did that with the free iPod I got from these guys. The apple store even let me have the student discount off the upgrade price!
  • digitalgopher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0NO WAY that the integrated video is enough to handle HD video. I have a dedicated 3D Nvidia card on my HTPC and it still struggles with HD video.
  • monkeybutler, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0--This is the worst most expensive computer ever bult for consumers......anywone person thinks for one min these are good in any shape or form needs to open a computer book!--

    Good advice. If people would just open a computer book they would immediately realize that... um... what the hell is a computer book?

    You gotta love when people who can't make a coherent sentence think they should be taken seriously in any way. Keep on rambling.
  • tapezor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0TRUE THAT, the shared integrated video card CANNOT handle hdtv smoothly.
  • Goldenatom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1As far as I know decoding of HD is done by the CPU not the GPU, at least right now. I know ATI has been doing some work in that area, but its not quite ready for prime time yet.
  • monkeybutler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0There are a few reasons as to why the Mac Mini may not be a perfect HDTV HTPC. (and im in no way claiming to be a mac expert. im basing this off the specs we've seen so far)


    1) Integrated Video. I think it takes about 80mb minimum. Even with a good dedicated card I have trouble with higher end video

    2) 1 Ram slot i think so if you don't upgrade at purchase you may be spending alot more than you expect.

    3) Front Row is awesome but the remote is rediculous. Simplicity is great but the 5 button remote sucks. Average consumers may be technically-challenged but we could handle a remote that actually does more than move up and down.

    4) Content. How exactly will we get this content? I really wanted a mac media center but we didnt get it. So we're stuck with cruddy itunes downloads until front row starts supporting non-apple formats. (dvr-ms would be good to stream over the network for MCE owners but that will never happen).
  • geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"TRUE THAT, the shared integrated video card CANNOT handle hdtv smoothly."
    -1, Inaccurate.

    Go read Intel's spec sheet for the GMA950. (Here's a link: http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/ ). Or read one of the reviews: (thanks Google, http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1821804,00.asp ). The GMA950 is probably the most powerful integrated graphics processor ever made. It's fast enough to run Core Image and Core Video, the CPU alone in the machine is fast enough to decode 720p video (sorry kids, that's all I had with me when I was demoing the new iMac), which stands to reason it's fast enough to decode 1080p (as the GPU supports lots of fancy things like true 16:9 output, and HDTV enhancements). Encoding is an entirely different matter.

    We'll have to wait and see. It's a pretty good pricepoint for a machine with all of the features they've crammed into it, it's much, much smaller than a comparably equipped Dell (though if you're a PC fanatic you'll not like this; the Dell you can change out hardware easier), it should be extremely quiet seeing as its max power use is 110W (and without a display, it stands to reason that number is inflated, it's likely to run normally at 45W). But, there are problems with the machine too (slow ass HD, optical drive is lame, just adequate RAM, etc), but even Apple has to cut corners somewhere.
  • digitalgopher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@goldenatom:

    HD is an mpeg stream. most 3D cards ease the burden on the CPU by decoding mpeg (ATI and NVIDIA have been selling this as a concept in their cards for 4+ years now). while the CPU can decode mpeg by itself in absence of a dedicated card, it will be very poor in doing so unless you have a high-end CPU.
  • geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"2) 1 Ram slot i think so if you don't upgrade at purchase you may be spending alot more than you expect."

    2 ram slots. Default configuration is 2x256MB. SO-DIMMs (laptop RAM for the less computer inclined).

    "3) Front Row is awesome but the remote is rediculous. Simplicity is great but the 5 button remote sucks. "

    Good thing it has 6 buttons then eh? ;).

    "4) Content. How exactly will we get this content?"

    I guess they forgot to mention in bright bold letters this thing has integrated WiFi on all models now, (integrated bluetooth, but this isn't really for data acquisition), and a Gigabit ethernet interface. The internet is full of video content, and it's growing very quickly. Apple's really trying to push online distribution models, and their computers are tailored to support that. And of course, there's always the DVD drive in the front.
  • s0ny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Guys, the integrated video isn't bad for this. Yeah, it wont run 30fps games, but if your buying a mac just to play games then your retarded. Apple could never fit a video card in a mini with 256MB or anything equivalent to play HD material for the price point, the integrated graphics allows the mini to run normal stuff with 80MB of ram, but for when your playing 1080p material it can use as much memory as needed. Personally I think its a smart move and regardless it is a step up over the previous 9200.

    "it lacks a microphone input, you'll have to buy an USB one, I think that sucks, specially if you spent like a $100 on a super duper plantronic's headset and mic in one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the diagram doesn't show any holes for microphones (unless you can use the Line In)"

    Thats what line in is for. I haven't seen a mac with a dedicated microphone input for 10 years! Optical digital in and out is a HUGE step up over the previous minis. Not to mention the addition of standard wireless & bluetooth 2.0, built in 1920x1080 support, 2 ram slots, front row, infrared remote for actually controlling your media library, dual core option, dual layer dvd burning option, AND a 667mhz bus vs 133mhz for the older g4, I think the new minis are a HUGE upgrade over the previous incarnation. And anyone complaining about anything else lacking, the Mini is all about stackability. There are DVR's that fit the minis form factor if you need, and for 50$ you can buy an empty shell that adds numerous ports and lets you add any HD you want to it.

    And just to point out, all cable boxes for the last few years have been required to have firewire ports, you can easily turn any mac into a DVR with just a firewire cable.

    http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2349&p=3

    "There are a few reasons as to why the Mac Mini may not be a perfect HDTV HTPC. (and im in no way claiming to be a mac expert. im basing this off the specs we've seen so far)
    ......
    2) 1 Ram slot i think so if you don't upgrade at purchase you may be spending alot more than you expect."

    for the record, there are 2 ram slots.
  • digitalgopher, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0@ geminitojanus:

    I've tried using the intel integrated GPU for HD, beleive me, it doesn't even get close.... and i'm doing this with plenty of ram and a 2.8ghz P4.
  • scbysnx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0no its not
  • scbysnx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0by the way "not to mention a remote" you're right.. don't mention the remote because it isn't a remote its barely there. wmce still owns the market for home pvr (set top boxes actually own it but I'm talking about computers) for one simple reason .. extenders if mac comes out with some extenders then we'll talk also a deal with the dvd's companys on rights to rip dvd's would be cool too (I don't like to work hard for my entertainment) also a built in freakin tuner I long for a computer tuner with cable card support..
  • geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"HD is an mpeg stream. most 3D cards ease the burden on the CPU by decoding mpeg (ATI and NVIDIA have been selling this as a concept in their cards for 4+ years now). while the CPU can decode mpeg by itself in absence of a dedicated card, it will be very poor in doing so unless you have a high-end CPU."

    HD can be formatted in any streaming media protocol you like; HD is a resolution, not a format.

    No 3D cards on the market currently support streaming-MPEG decoding.. at least not the way we think about it. Current graphics cards support DVD accelleration by expediting the longest part of the decoding process (which just so happens to be the last step to the monitor anyways, so it's a good place for it to be), however, current CPUs have been fast enough to decode to full frames DVD content for a while now. Both ATi and nVidia have demoed this for MPEG-4, but have not released it as of yet, meaning that Intel's GMA950 is just as suited at the task as a Radeon Xpress or an nVidia GeForceGo.

    We should also make it amply clear that CPU decoding of MPEG streams has been fast for quite a while (especially on machines that support SSE2/3), and the Core Solo and Duo processors both include up-to-date SSE extensions. That being said, the Core Solo should be fast enough to decode a 720p stream without problem (as the Core Duo make it look effortless, never spiking the second core at all during my demo at the Apple store). As for 1080p, it should be able to decode it just fine, though I haven't tested this, so it's only anecdotal for now. However, it is also a good thing to note the Intel graphics chip they went with has enhancements for displaying HD media to offload some of the tax from the CPU, and as long as Apple's applications are aware of it (which they are; Apple's been hands-on with this chip longer than they have the X1600), they will be able to take it into consideration during decoding.
  • geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@Digitalgopher:
    "I've tried using the intel integrated GPU for HD, beleive me, it doesn't even get close.... and i'm doing this with plenty of ram and a 2.8ghz P4."

    May I ask, is that a Dell with an Intel 865 chipset (aka, Pre GMA900)? Because being a P4 at 2.8GHz would convince me of that (seeing as there aren't any boards for the P4 that use the GMA950 graphics adaptor that I'm aware of).

    That's like comparing your Radeon 7500 to an 8500 my friend. Two different chips.
  • kolop1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Will I pay $1.99 for iPod resolution TV shows? A few here and there (I have bought some, I do like the convenience over BT), but not seriously. Would I pay $1.99 to watch TV shows at my own convenience in HD and be able to download them with the same convenience as the current offerings? HELL YES I WOULD"

    If apple started to put HD content for download on Itunes it would take forever to download. Plus once you started to download HD content you would need a much bigger Hard drive than the one in the Mac mini. Also if it could be played on your Ipod you would need a much larger hard drive in that to. 60 gigs of space is not alot when you are piling HD video into it.
  • waiwai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Buying an HTPC right now is rather stupid. Especially one without any expansion capabilities like the mini. You'll just be replacing it in a year or two for something with HDMI-HDCP.
  • geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"If apple started to put HD content for download on Itunes it would take forever to download. Plus once you started to download HD content you would need a much bigger Hard drive than the one in the Mac mini. Also if it could be played on your Ipod you would need a much larger hard drive in that to. 60 gigs of space is not alot when you are piling HD video into it."

    The man speaks the truth. But there are a number of consumers to which HD media hasn't really sold them yet, and it's safe to bank on older medias (seeing as 98% of us still have TVs incapable of making 800x600/720x480 look good). Personally, I'm quite happy with 400x300 or better video, and most of the video podcasts I subscribe to hit right around that mark (I'm extremely impressed with Rocketboom and their recent move to a higher definition stream). And then there's always bittorrent...
  • FreeCajunLove, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Perfect?!!?

    Perfection knows no monetary bounds...

    http://www.niveusmedia.com/gallery/k2_rear.htm
  • kolop1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0 If you want a pvr get a tivo its cheaper. If not build a computer and use Windows media center. I would rather build one with windows and choose the video card I want and the hard drive I want. If i went with Apple I would not really have any choice in this, and I would not be able to upgrade. It is not future proof.
  • Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1The most expensive DVD player money can buy.
  • ihate2regist, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1MAC SUCKS GET OVER IT
  • rani, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1People, hang-on. I'm sure that within a week or two someone will benchmark this tiny beast and we'll all know if it runs 720p, maybe 1080p.

    Don't forget that apple is targeting this appliance (yes, appliance) for the consumer market and not for a supergeek.

    It's hard to even find a 1080p display, and most of the people on this forum would not be able to afford one for at least then next 3 years... so why talk about the price of the Mac Mini?

    If the Mac Mini can deliver 720p, and maybe 1080i then it would fit today's market. I'm sure that once 1080p displays (TVs) start hitting the shelves for the masses, Apple will release a new version of the Mac Mini.

    As for the remote and audio connector - I'm sure Apple did much more research then anyone on this forum. Again, this is for the average consumer.

    Last, I believe this product is targeted as a living room appliance for displaying iTunes videos and playing iTunes audio. This is now Apple's largest income maker. This means that they did not target the product for HD video gaming - or not for video gaming at all.

    It's a great product to put next to your TV and maybe as a secondary PC. If you want to run HD games - wait for the Gintel (G5+1). The Mac Mini is not what you're looking for.
  • ArthurSucks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Damn! I called it. The future of HDTV ain't blue ray vs HDDVD, it's Sony vs Microsoft vs Apple.
  • corduroy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Most chips nowadays have a decoder on board. I had a 6800 AGP (which didn't have a decoder, paired with a xp2600+) and it stuttered while playing 480p trailers from apple. My s939 Sempron w/ onboard x200 playes 720p just fine (and it plays it just as well as my 6600gt pcie) as does my Dell 700m 1.8ghz with the Intel 855GME. I think it stutters somewhat at 1080p, i'll check later on both systems.

    So will it play HD? The core solo should definitely be able to do 720p, possibly 1080p, I'm not sure how much of an improvement they made with the "Intel Extreme Graphics 3".

    But is it right for the mac? I mean, does it even support all the core image library for the OSX gui (since it needed at least a 9600 for all effects on the ati side)? My friend was looking (and I was) at buying one soon, but I'm going to dissuade him until they at least have the X1600 in them.

    oh, and as a side note, i don't see how it can be perfect as an hdtv htpc when it has no recording or hd ota/cablecard capabilities. It's good, but it's no htpc. Oh, and pricewise, it's expensive, but not terribly so considering it's a core chip and not some centrino.
  • geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"I mean, does it even support all the core image library for the OSX gui"

    Yes. It also support's Vista UI, which is the #1 reason Intel designed this more powerful graphics chip for budget machines (you haven't forgotten yet that the Mini is a budget machine, right? Okay just checking). The GMA950 even supports light gaming.
  • nexus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1reported as inacurate, no slot for an internal tv tuner. And definatly NOT as good as some of the windows based HTPC's out there.
  • DannyMurphy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I real let down. No PVR so I would have to spend another £100 for an EyeTV and also would increase the footprint of the mac. Plus it would have been cool to have surround sound built in so I could really use it as a front room solution, We have seen that Apple do speakers, with the iPod HiFi. I think that apple have stopped innovating new products and just trying to make more money out of the iPod community.
  • fluffyturtle, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Terrible article.

    QUICK! It says MAC in the title, digg like you have never digged before!
  • mkjones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0But ut has no record functions and the remote only has enough buttons to support playing basic music/video. Imagine if it had cable card support, how would you change your channels?
  • thirdtenor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0How can it be the perfect HTPC when it crippled with sucky intel GMA 950 integrated graphics.

    There will be a slew of small form factor core duo pc's with real graphics cards debuting at CEBIT in just over a week that will easily be better than this.

    Sorry not digging apple's latest offerings or this fanatic post
  • hasanahmad, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Stupid and Expensive
  • bimmerboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0From geminitojanus post. - http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/

    Specs for the 950 Integrated Chip

    Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950 Graphics Core
    256-bit graphics core running at 400MHz
    Up to 10.6 GB/sec memory bandwidth with DDR2 667 system memory
    1.6 GPixels/sec and 1.6 GTexels/sec fill rate
    Up to 224 MB maximum video memory
    2048x1536 at 75 Hz maximum resolution
    Dynamic Display Modes for flat-panel, wide-screen and Digital TV support

    High Performance 3D
    Up to 4 pixels per clock rendering
    Microsoft* DirectX* 9 Hardware Acceleration Features:
    Pixel Shader 2.0
    Volumetric Textures
    Shadow Maps
    Slope Scale Depth Bias
    Two-Sided Stencil
    Microsoft* DirectX* 9 Vertex Shader 3.0 and Transform and Lighting supported in software through highly optimized Processor Specific Geometry Pipeline (PSGP)
    Texture Decompression for DirectX* and OpenGL*
    OpenGL* 1.4 support plus ARB_vertex_buffer and EXT_shadow_funcs extensions and TexEnv shader caching

    Advanced Display Capability
    Up to 2048x1536 resolution for both analog and digital displays
    Consumer Electronic display (Digital TV) support
    Display hot plug support to automatically detect new display connection while system is operating (CRT and DVI)
    Two Serial Digital Video Out (SDVO) ports for flat-panel monitors and/or TV-out support via Advanced Digital Display 2 (ADD2) cards or Media Expansion Cards
    Intel Media Expansion Cards available providing TV-out and PVR capability
    Multiple display types (LVDS, DVI-I, DVI-D, HDTV, TV-out, CRT)
    Dual screen support through ADD2 digital video devices
    HDTV 480i/p, 576i/p, 720i/p and 1080i/p display resolution support
    Interlaced Display output support
    16x9 and 16x10 Aspect Ratio for widescreen displays
    2x2 Panel Scaler

    Stunning Video Playback
    High Definition Hardware Motion Compensation to support high definition hi-bitrate MPEG2 media playback
    Up and Down Scaling of Video Content
    High Definition Content Decode - up to two stream support
    5x3 Overlay Filtering.

    Let's wait for the benchmarks before we make judgement based on what we read.
  • leonbev, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Now can the "perfect HDTV HTPC" NOT have a TV tuner or DVR capability? You're kinda forgetting the "TV" part of HDTV there.
  • geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Let's wait for the benchmarks before we make judgement based on what we read."

    The benchmarks are already out (Google for them, or check my post to the extreme tech site). The card's not exceptional for gaming, but it's adequate, and for a cheap machine, you get what you pay for. I don't see any Dells at or around this pricepoint shipping with anything more than Intel graphics either, and my $500 dell box (admittedly $100 cheaper) didn't ship with an AGP port for upgrading either... (though getting a free flat panel and printer takes the burn off that).
  • bjdraw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0leonbev,
    That is what we will have iTunes for, or at least hopfully they will add HD content soon. I would love to pay them instead of my cable company for my shows.
  • javamonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I see plenty of converters for outputing to a composite video but I don't see how to do the reverse. The reason for wanting to do that is if I currently own a Tivo and am happy with how that handles the dvr responsibility but want to take advantage of the other functionality of Front Row, how would I pass the video through the mini?
  • skyshock21, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1BWAHAHAHAHA, what a fluff-piece by an obvious mac fanboi trying to justify his purchase. No way that integrated video chip can do HD at 1080i. And no PVR????

    No thanks.
  • tocksin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0where's the digital audio output? or any audio output besides the headphone jack?
  • DrWho, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Downloadable legal HD content???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Not gonna happen. BluRay and HDDVD will be needing the sales.
  • geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"where's the digital audio output? or any audio output besides the headphone jack?"

    The Digital out uses the same jack as the Analog out; the jack is engineered to support both. In the back of the jack is the optical emitter, and nearer to the front of the jack are the two analog contacts. If you plug a digital cable in, it turns off the eletrical contacts and turns on the optical, likewise if the headphones/RCA is plugged in, the optical is disabled.
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