What is Digg?137 Comments
- i440, on 10/12/2007, -6/+50Something very, /very/ significant has to occur in order to force the iPod to give up its marketshare, of that I can assure
- readme, on 10/12/2007, -19/+62It cost them over four *billion* dollars to gain that popularity. At that point it's kind of like the rich loser who has to pay people to hang out with him.
- sinfony, on 10/12/2007, -12/+46It cost them $4 billion dollars to establish themselves as a legitimate competitor in a fast growing, massively profitable industry. The Xbox project is going to pay off for MS.
- gr8one, on 10/12/2007, -5/+35Windows ME was a secret?
- WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -7/+32I'd have to agree with the thrust of the argument, which states that Microsoft isn't very good at making consumer products. Their cornerstone products are all intended for the enterprise market, with the needs of corporate customers and OEM resellers at the top of their priorities. In this market, they have had tremendous success. The only real consumer product they've tried so far is the Xbox, and while it certainly has gained a respectable following (heck, I'm no MS fanboy, and I've got a modded Xbox, and will probably get a 360 once they're cracked and cheap), it has not been a financial success up to this point.
One of the major problems seems to be that the management at MS is unlikely to make great leaps of faith, or to guess what the typical consumer wants from a product and steer their engineers in that direction with a goal in mind. They seem to approach the products they make from a technological and logistical standpoint, instead of a functional or design standpoint. This will need to be addressed if MS is to succeed in the consumer electronics space. - sinfony, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28To your average computer-illeterate user, Windows is the computer.
- Rice, on 10/12/2007, -8/+32Dugg for this:
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/2E6D9BB2-FE1B-4556-8389-67BD581FBCCC_files/money.to.png
XD - NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -11/+31Well, in a way they are, but they're circling the bowl in room that's been flooded to the ceiling. It's going to take a long time to drain, I'm afraid.
-jcr - ChewyBass, on 10/12/2007, -8/+24I've been in IT for 15 years, and for 15 years I have heard about the doom of Microsoft. When the mushroom cloud rises over Redmond I'll believe it.
- fatcat, on 10/12/2007, -19/+35what about the xbox? it may not be too profitable, but its still very popular
- likkie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16The reason there is no choice in the market is not because of Apple, its because of Microsoft. Anyone remember OS/2?
The point Daniel often makes is that rather than Microsoft succeeding by making invovative products that people want, they do it by killing competition and choice.
I am not saying that there are no great products from MS, because there are.
But our options are becoming fewer by the day. One day there won't be a choice anymore and then MS, or whoever the winner is, won't have to innovate or care about what the end user wants becuase we won't have an alternative.
We are already at the point where any new upstart company has to have something pretty spectacular just to be rated at the same level and an established ordinary product. Thats if anyone ever gets to hear about it.
By supporting the MS monoply we are voting with our hard earned cash for a bleak, vanilla flavoured, brown paper bag future when it comes to IT. - airmann90, on 10/12/2007, -10/+24Note that this article was written on a PRO-Apple, nearly Anti-Microsoft blog/website.
Just saying... - alvinrod, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15I think that you've missed the point that he was trying to make in the article. He's not saying that people don't want to buy Windows with their computer, but that manufacturers are not allowed to heavily advertise Linux or other alternatives. If they did do this, Microsoft will charge them more for each copy of Windows.
There's a lot of competition in the PC market right now and it's unlikely that any of the various companies involved could afford to have extra cost tacked on to their products. Microsoft is playing each of the companies against the other, and the companies probably don't like them for this. I'm sure if they had a good alternative they would take it. Consider how Dell is using AMD chips now and all of the shady dealings that Intel had with the different PC manufacturers in the past. - WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Just because MS is wildly successful in certain markets doesn't mean that their success will necessarily extend to new markets. That's the point he's trying to make; not that MS as a company is doomed...
- mattjumbo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14Some of you are just being asses and arguing against a point the guy never made. He is not saying MS is a failure or that they haven't been successful in the market. Of course they have. Pretending that he did say that is pointlessly obtuse.
His point is that Microsoft has never been successful by getting *consumers* to choose their product over another based on merit. And it is an absolutely accurate, clear, and easily verifiable point. If, as I said, you want to bother with even a bit of research. - mattjumbo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"Microsoft were producing some very good software for a decade between 86 and 95. Their development tools (which I used) were superb. However, they had real competition from Borland at that time and both companies had to work hard to out-do each other. The customer really benefitted at that time."
Yeah, you are certainly correct about that. I'm sure we could comb around and find a few other examples of good MS software also. But, again, Microsoft would not be in business tomorrow if they had to rely on those types of outliers. The vast majority of MS' revenue, and all of their profit practically, is from Windows and Office.
And both of those were, without question, built by leveraging DOS and, later, Windows (which was itself possible by leveraging DOS). DOS was, of course, a closr to code-for-code rip off of CP/M with Tim Patterson playing the street criminal who did the theft, MS as the fence, and IBM as the Godfather.
So I think the point still holds. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -11/+19I dont like the swipe at digg in his description.. the truth censored by digg
If he has a problem with some people he should meantion that without making a swipe at the whole community.
I liked the article and didnt even mind the beseechment at the end, but i'm not diggging this for that one comment in the descriptiont hat has zip to do with the article in question. I does make me question if the submitted gets burried for legitiment reasons.
NO I am not trying to be a dick but people have to understand their tone doesnt aways come out as planned in text and some have a worse problem with this than others. - jccalhoun, on 10/12/2007, -15/+23No, the fact is the guy is a spammer. Look at his submitted stories, not only are they all for his site, on some of them he submitted the ip address in an attempt trick people so they wouldn't know it was from his lame site and finally, his stories are lame.
He is a spammer. end of story. - gravis86, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12I've got Windows on my Mac
- ductoogle, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13So compines that sell Windows cant even talk about Linux well..
http://www.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd
Dell does - Pignanelli, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Well, the begging is somewhat unbecoming, BUT, I give you a digg, because I hate asswipes who, rather than come up with creative content themselves, would rather deride others, mostly out of jealousy and spite than for any legitimate or logical reason.
- danieleran, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11hi - would you really prefer more limp articles on digg that are as interesting as flat diet coke?
There is no shortage of gushing PR paraphrasing blogs that do nothing but create "lists of 10" opinions that generate no controversy. Really: yawn. What I write makes some people upset, but clearly they were upset to begin with.
I would hope some people disagree with my ideas, because apathy isn't interesting. It would be cool if people who disagree could articulate their own ideas, rather than simply repeating the catchphrase about my stuff being so "inaccurate" and even worse, "biased!"
What would you think of rednecks who called Jon Stewart "biased" in his assessment of Bush? Would you think they were genius - or just retarded?
There are lots of people who have the capacity to critically review ideas without agreeing, without crying about them, and without trying to censor them. I'd rather say why I disagree with somebody's statement than try to prevent them from being heard
As a reader who just mailed me had in their sig:
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
Too many diggers think [agree = accurate] and [popular = good]. They are morons. - halesgarcia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The article isn't saying Windows is threatened in the enterprise, but rather that Microsoft can't use the enterprise to grow into the consumer space.
People overlook that the Microsoft monopoly is due to the enterprise. Windows is in banks, check out counters--you name a business and there you'll find Windows. When selecting a computer for the home, it was always safe to select one to match the work experience. It made you a better worker, presumably.
In the emerging consumer media market, no comparison to the work place exists. So Microsoft can't use its dominance in the work place to leverage itself into the home.
It's 'all work and no play' for the Windows dominated enterprise. - GnuTzu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"80% of the company's revenues come entirely from an OEM tax, and not from any choice on the part of consumers"
I couldn't have said it better.
There is no point in discussing consumer preferences when choice is removed from the equation. - Beowulfed, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15His last few articles have been stretching to make a point but this one nails it pretty well. Microsoft is expecting a reputation in one market to allow it to simply take over another. IBM had a similar belief back in the Eighties and look what happened. The more things change...
- sinfony, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@winmac96
You'd better tell venture capitalists that.
In the real world, though, an investment of $4 billion now for potential returns an order of magnitude higher than that is a good business decision. It takes money to make money. - drog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5This is an article about microsoft. Why is it in the Apple category?
- Cymrubeats, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15In most cases the ***** gets flushed before it reaches front page.
didn't you read his begging letter?
"Help! I need your support as a reader. I gain a lot of my readership from Digg.com, an article listing service that rates submissions. My stories are usually rated highly, but a contingent of anti-fans and astroturfers have been camping on digg to ban my stories. If you like reading my stuff, please digg my articles. If just a few more of my readers digg them, it will water out the negative minority that tries to bury them before they can be seen. " - elliotm01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I don't care about any other MS hardware, just bring back the Sidewinder game controller line!!!
And make it better. I neeeed optical joysticks. Make everything optical. My CH Products sticks didn't live up to their hype.
Descent 3 multiplayer FTW! - 22901here, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13FWIW, I think Daniel is one of the best Apple commentators around. His overview of the terrain and insights are extraordinary. Albeit, he does like to play the victim a bit too much. Daniel, Change your Digg comment to...
"Help! I need your support as a reader. I gain a lot of my readership from Digg.com, an article listing service that rates submissions. If you like reading my stuff, please digg my articles."
The stuff I removed, although it might be true, is just whining. Daniel, stop whining and you'll get more Diggs! - Web_Weasel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I've been in IT for over 20 years and I've seen this before. Last time it was IBM and the mainframe. The arguments were mostly the same (monopoly, overpriced, low quality, unfair competition). IBM didn't go anywhere but they did make fundamental changes to adapt to the new market. MS is in the same boat. They need to make fundamental changes to stay competitive in the modern market. Gates (and probably Balmer) stepping down is a good first step. If they can change their corporate culture and vision before the shareholders revolt they have a bright future.
- WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -8/+14Yeah, I'd have to agree there's some unfounded and unnecessary MS bashing in this guy's articles. He usually makes some good arguments, but he does great harm to them by adding useless pro-Apple or anti-MS fanboyisms. He definitely needs to tone that down...
- danakin, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13Not to mention he has folks who digg down anything negative said about his site...
- danieleran, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12I know you are a digtroll lakawak, but really, 2+2... I didn't post the article.
I get heavy flack for submitting anything I write to digg, so I have to wait for a reader to post it, then mess around with the digg API because its excessively non-automatable.
I do find it interesting that the diggtard minority tries to portray me as anti-digg, when really they are. I actually contribute something interesting. That's why you have to gang up on it. It it wasn't interesting, you'd just let it die with 5 diggs.
A very few small bigot minority tries to bury my articles before anyone sees them. Even after they are burried, they get lots of direct diggs from readers, so all the chat about "democracy" is total asstalk.
There is nothing democratic about interrupting an election to make sure nobody is critical of the "product mix" your life revolves around.
Anyone using the word "Bias" on Digg is severely retarded. That's the point, trolls. This isn't the Wikipedia. - REBELinBLUE, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Has no one here ever heard the phrase "speculate to accumulate", how about "you have to spend money to make money"
- linkinpark342, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9I'm extremely tempted to mark it inaccurate just because its from RDM... but I won't...
Dugg for the pic of Ballmer and the fire, but I can't say I disagree with greymaxcat. Most of this is well known enough. Microsoft (and we, the tech community) knew trying to get a piece of the iPod pie would be costly. We know that the OEM dealers have the chance of being "boned" if they try something fishy that involves our mighty Lord, Tux. Wii knew that Microsoft sold their Xbox for super marked down just to get it out. Its nothing really new.
And one point of disagreement, about the only sales of microsoft are to OEM and never to consumers and blargh blargh microsoft is the antichrist and they never release anything good. Explain that to Microsoft Office. I admit I likes me the Open Source and OOo does exist as an alternative but its just not up to par yet IMO. I _do_ use OOo on my linux switch but for any long English essays or anything of major importance in the English language I'll stick to my shiny Office... - Beowulfed, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8It's not quite true that "MS has never produced a successful product that wasn't built on leveraging a monopoly position". Microsoft were producing some very good software for a decade between 86 and 95. Their development tools (which I used) were superb. However, they had real competition from Borland at that time and both companies had to work hard to out-do each other. The customer really benefitted at that time.
Windows 95 was probably the last major consumer success they had and that's what cemented their monopoly position in the industry. Now monopolies aren't inherently bad but when they cause the market to stagnate and competitors are forcibly manoeuvred out of the market then there is a problem. Despite using smaller development groups for recent products Microsoft still appears to have that mindset that they are big enough to be a player in any market they decide to enter. History has shown that it isn't the case. - Vaprrs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The real rubbish is having Windows rammed down my throat at the workplace. MS Access is required to do my time card instead of having the IT staff develop something web-based that can be cross platform. That way I need two computers - one to do my timecard and email, and one with Linux to run scientific applications that Windows can't. Your tax dollars hard at work!
- drewskyjones, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11A bunch of hyperbole for the most part (IMHO), so No Digg. But I'm not going to bury it as inaccurate either...let the readers decide for themselves. Clearly a fairly large group of people are digging this, since it made it to the front page.
I don't want to get into a point for point debate, but I will say I have bought a PC from Dell with no OS, the Dimension N. - LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Yes, Microsoft has gained some ground on the incompetent Sony with Xbox, but are they making any money off of Xbox? Do they have plans to?
- LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"What else would they put on the system? People don't want to pay for a mac or use linux when all they need to do is read their e-mail and search the web. "
You're way off the mark there... The Mac and Windows are comparable in terms of cost spent on software or software R&D, but Linux is another story.
If all you need to do is read email and search the web, why do you need to pay for the license of Windows to do it? you're not tied down to Microsoft software in anyway... Email != Outlook Express, and Web != Internet Explorer.
if you're a new user to computers, and you buy a Dell, Dell is passing on the cost of the windows license to you, the consumer, no matter what if you buy windows.
Why not use Ubuntu? It is free, it functions fine for email and web with FREE apps, and the bottom line, may save up to $100 from the cost of the computer... It's just as easy to use as Windows, but without the licensing cost.
Oh... that's right... because Dell won't sell a computer with Ubuntu or any other free distro because Microsoft would punish them.
If people were given the choice of a Dell computer that was $50 to $100 less expensive than a Windows equipped Dell because it ran Linux, but functioned the same, there would be many that would WANT it. - gagravaar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Great article as usual. The highlight for me was this statement:
"80% of the company's revenues come entirely from an OEM tax, and not from any choice on the part of consumers, they also have to admit that Apple's share of the market--which is based entirely on consumers going out of their way to make a choice--is not only underestimated, but a potential disaster looming for Microsoft."
That in a nutshell shows the difference between Apple & Microsoft and the people who recommend & use them:
Apple is chosen by people who want to use the platform because of an informed, independant choice.
Microsoft is forced on people because of vested interest by PC manufacturers (so they can sell you a maintenance contract & virus/spyware software), and by geeks who want to show you what a genius they are when they come along and 'fix' your PC 6 months after you bought it because it's not working anymore. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I realized the only microsoft product what I don't hate is my Microsoft Intellimouse, which of course not manufactured by microsoft :E
- fishtoprecords, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Decent analysis, begging is lame
- DrummerSi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6All this rubbish about People choosing mac & linux over Windows is rubbish! And come on people, there are more places to buy you PC from than DELL! I myself used to work in a small independant computer store in the UK... We mainly build and sold Window systems for years. Then a linux fanatic joined the team and we started placing Linux systems on our shelves next to the Windows systems.. Lower prices, same basic features... And you know what.. People went for Windows! Even those people with VERY LITTLE or NO computer experience. I believe competition is good, but people really wouldn't buy Windows if they didn't like it.
- Sagard, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12Hey. If politicians can plead for votes, this guy can too.
>>Sagar - kyriakos, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11XBox a failure? oh please! it managed to penetrate a market dominated by a giant, sony and in 2 generations managed to make Sony's product look like an overpriced toaster.
- Swoyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4billions of dollars spent is not really that big of a concern. the video game market is a billion dollar industry, and if they can get enough hype to eventually dominate that market, it will pay back to them.
- EXreaction, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12Anyone who think MS is going to die out is a moron...
There is much more to them then just what you see...
For example, I cook in a restaurant owned by Kohler Co. Big businesses have their hands in many different areas, for the Kohler example, they have 2 huge sections.... faucets/pluming, and engines/generators. Most people don't even know of both of those sections of Kohler, and I work in a much smaller section(I believe it is only in the Kohler, WI area) at a restaurant, which I doubt many, if anyone else knew they had here...
So back to the main point, even if MS does horribly in one area they have plenty of other resources to keep themselves up if they want to stay in it...they can afford to spend loads of money in other developing areas and try out new things without having to worry. - WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7It's not like that at all. The difference here is that we're comparing the consumer market to the enterprise market, instead of software vs. hardware. Who you're selling to is much more crucial to the design and marketing of a product than how you're implementing it. A consumer doesn't care if the widget they buy is 20% software R&D investment and 80% hardware or vice-versa. They do care that the product is practical to use, and offers solutions to their problems for a good value. A corporate customer, however, needs long-term commitments, the availability of many predetermined features, and are much more knowledgeable about the product they are purchasing, since it's intended for a specific purpose.
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