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89 Comments
- triska, on 10/31/2007, -1/+90I think the important thing is it's no longer using X11, rather it's using a mac port of GTK+. By default that's going to make no difference to the UI, except it won't have to go through X11 for its UI, and one less step is fewer wasted CPU cycles.
- NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -22/+87Native? Not hardly. One glance at the menus inside the window is enough to tell you that.
-jcr - judgeFire, on 10/12/2007, -8/+55@beguiledfoil re: "Who cares what it looks like?"
It's not about looks, it's about how it functions. OS X software is expected to behave in certain ways, to keep the UI experience more coherent from app to app.
This includes menu structure, keyboard shortcuts, button placement, titling and naming of UI elements, expected behaviour (drag and drop, textarea edit behaviours, spelling &c) and more.
A lazy half-assed app just shifts the burden from the dev to all the users having to cope with the non-logical UI. - brewno2k, on 10/12/2007, -12/+53I agree, it needs the Aqua look and feel, urgent.
- hotdamn, on 10/12/2007, -5/+38Because stealing is illegal and Photoshop is expensive.
- NeoRicen, on 10/12/2007, -13/+39Holy ***** that's a God awful interface!
- invision, on 10/12/2007, -8/+32Bring on the competition?
We're talking about OS X...
You know, the OS that almost every graphic designer worth anything uses.
word up.
[digg me down for my fanboyism] - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+28Mirror, because imageshack sucks balls.
http://i11.tinypic.com/4gtgmqx.jpg - ilgaz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20RE: "Gimp is a GTK application (GTK = Gimp Tool Kit) and is theme-able..."
It is not like they want shiny Aqua buttons. They want this:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGIntro/chapter_1_section_1.html
These users even bitch about Apple breaking their own guidelines on some apps. While I don't agree the negative/flaming language against an open source effort, I understand the deal. - baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -8/+27RE:["I agree, it needs the Aqua look and feel, urgent."]
Gimp is a GTK application (GTK = Gimp Tool Kit) and is theme-able... - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19If people don't like it they always have the option not to use it. I seriously doubt the authors will shed any tears over that. In all likelihood this port was made for a person who already likes the way the GIMP works and just wanted to get rid of the X11 dependency on OSX. In that case it is not intended for use by general Mac users.
- therearenorules, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Nice huge icons on the desktop... he should learn to use the Dock and/or Quicksilver.
- ilgaz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Besides the launch time of X11, I don't think X11 on OS X is "slow", it is in fact optimised by Apple to use OS X display technologies.
It is the complete non-native look of GIMP on OS X, getting rid of X11 is not the solution to it. That App has to say "GIMP" at first Menu, has to use OS X file selector etc. There are many great opensource applications which shares the same problem.
While I am against the complete "Nerdiness" and unprofessional "support" userbase which managed to takeover everything connected with Gimp (IRC etc), I won't say it "sucks", you should learn to respect peoples effort and way of doing things. - ilgaz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13GTK means "Gimp Toolkit", go figure the meaning of suggesting it uses an old version of its own toolkit :)
- jellomizer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11@katalieb
It is not that the location of the menu bars in gimp is wrong for Gimp it is more that it is wrong for OS X. Good interface design says things should be consistent among all else. Even if it bad it should stay consistent. The Native GIMP project still really isn't complete because for it to be a native application it needs to follow some basic interface guidelines. Apple put the menu bar on top of the screen for a reason. First it is actually a good way to maximize real-estate on the screen. without each application having to use an additional 32 pixels for a menu bar on for every window. It feels weird for when a person who first makes the switch because they have been brain washed into thinking the other way is the only way. But after using both they are actually both about the same what I loose in one method I gain in the other... - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"hi people. Is there a single sentence explanation why GIMP doesn't have 48bit image editing capability?"
Quite frankly, that kind of precision is ridiculously hard to code for, and stay efficient in the time and space domains. Not to say that we're not working on it: Google GEGL (read this one aloud and giggle at google and geegle). - griz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Getting away from X11 is step 1. I use NeoOffice on a daily basis. Anyone who uses that knows where it came from and how clumsy it was in the beginning. Now it runs as a native app and is very usable.
While NeoOffice works well to replace something as simple as Office. Replacing the complexity of Photoshop will be a long time coming. I however do not see this as a Photoshop replacement. I think it would be a fine substitute for anyone wishing to get deeper into image editing than Photoshop Elements allows while saving considerable money. I think it is also a great choice for anyone who does not have a lot of history in Photoshop. And before anyone mentions GimpShop. It is certainly a step in the right direction, however, to a long time Photoshop user, it is just not Photoshop. Gimpshop might be an alternative to pirating a copy of Photoshop so that you can get started. Then once you are editing images like a champ (And perhaps making money at it), you might consider moving up to Photoshop. A transition in that direction might be an easier move. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6If Cmd+H hides the Gimp application and all of its windows, and Cmd+` switches between windows then at least it's a start, despite the lack of a single menu bar and proper palette windows.
- MGustafson, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Gimp is a great alternative to Photoshop. Yes it has different menu layouts but I remember going from PSP to Photoshop years ago and just sitting there scratching my head for a while. The main thing I am pleased about with this is the fact that serious OSS devs are beginning to get the major programs from *nix to run as native OSX apps. The look and feel of these will undoubtably start to merge towards prettier interfaces once people start contributing in that department so if you don't like it try to fix it. This is not software like Photoshop where we just have to be content with what Adobe charges us almost us$620 for (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832105261). This is user driven, user developed software.
- ilgaz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9See those digg comments sometimes flaming? Imagine they went to gimp channel/support forum and told the same problems in a polite, civilized way.
What feedback they would get? Don't let me guess :) I have personally went to Adobe.com in all that anger and tried to order Photoshop Elements. Glad they didn't sell it online to my country :) - mercurysquad, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9@RabidSnell:
Let's see: you go to a hospital for a surgery and the doc says, if you don't like me using my bare hands a 9" buthcher's knife without anaesthesia, you operate on yourself.
Or maybe when your car breaks down, you get it fixed but the mechanic replaces the body with junk. You fix it yourself. - pilky, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6People porting to the Mac need to realise that a simple port like this won't do. And those saying "oh, we can just throw an aqua skin on it" need to realise that a port like that won't do. Mac users want Mac applications. Unless you are going to write an application that works as a Mac application will work then you aren't going to get anywhere with picking up users, maybe a few Windows/Linux users who used the app on that platform before it was ported (developers on both platforms are as bad).
A prime example would be Firefox. If Firefox was good enough on the Mac then why would Camino exist? People need to realise that UI design isn't about what the UI elements look like but how they are used - nayr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6who cares what it looks like? it doesn't use X11!!
- simoncoul, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I think the main thing here is they are making a step to easily get ALL gtk apps to easily port over for use! I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they make the gtk theme match something OSX like.
- Midnightbrewer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"It's not about looks, it's about how it functions. OS X software is expected to behave in certain ways, to keep the UI experience more coherent from app to app. [...] A lazy half-assed app just shifts the burden from the dev to all the users having to cope with the non-logical UI."
Apple is the worst cuplrit in the realm of breaking their own policies and introducing new interface designs on a whim, and yet I'd hardly call them half-assed, let alone non-logical. Also, the GIMP follows many of Photoshop's conventions, the application which arguably set the de facto standards of how an OSX app should look before even Apple had gotten around to it. As a designer, I still prefer Photoshop, hands down, but I also use Newtek's LightWave, a professional animation app with one of the fastest learning curves in the industry, and which still bears a striking resemblance to its old Amiga days. In the end, it's not about shoe-horning an app into some sort of magical, generic template that somehow makes word processors work exactly like DVD authoring software, but simply finding the best design for the job. - cvp1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Photoshop is too expensive" is a pathetic excuse. I do professional website design using only Photoshop Elements for Mac and have been able to effectively recreate any professional effect that anyone using Photoshop CS3 produces. Is it as easy? Of course not. But the client doesn't need to know that, and it's still a heluva lot easier than using the GIMP (and it makes my conscience happy too, no pirated software).
- blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6There's already a Aqua app using GIMP's engine. It's called seashore. Sure it doesn't have all the features but it's a mac app.
http://seashore.sourceforge.net/
(Shameless plug: check out ChocoFlop too for CoreImage goodness.) - timf, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Because everybody know that doctors and mechanics work without getting paid...
- djscooterb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I don't want to turn this into a Gnome vs. KDE thing (because I really don't case), but it's too bad that Gimp was written on GTK and not Qt instead. Trolltech has free (as in beer and speech) versions of Qt for open-source development and compiling the same code on *NIX, Mac or Windows is very seemless if you write clean code and use the Qt API when appropriate. As of Qt4, the Mac support uses much more native Aqua code when possible and makes the application look and feel very native. If you have any plans on developing an open-source app that you might want to deploy across the three major platforms, you should really check out Qt. I have developed with it for years and it is extremely powerful.
- dschep, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Ilgaz sftu. Now in response to the actual question, no, the Gimp uses gtk-2.x.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6ugh menus stuck to windows, what a horrible interface
- ilgaz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6It is a common thing for developer machines being standard as possible. I have seen very advanced developers screenshots/machines which they didn't even change the wallpaper. You see only Xcode icon, BBEdit icon and possibly an open source IRC client running. Nothing else.
Of course, Quicksilver would help huge to a developer with some plugins. - jumpfroggy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@a0me
Far as I can tell, GimpShop modifies GIMP to use Photoshop style menus, keyboard shortcuts, etc. Also on windows it simulates (badly) a MDI interface (ie. many windows inside a bigger window) instead of the mac-style (lots of little windows everywhere).
I used it a little on windows, but went back to normal gimp. I really wish it were MDI in windows, but the deweirdifier plugin simply does not work well. I hate the normal gimp interface, but once you get into it it becomes more of a nuisance than a showstopper. That being said, I use the gimp often now and have really started enjoying it more. - ilgaz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7@hotdamn , Artists are happily paying for Adobe Photoshop as a tool to get job done, it is not like they are "prisoned" or "Stupid".
If even Java coders respect the Apple guidelines on OS X and use a Java extension to make their apps "Native looking and acting", they should care too.
They don't care? Fine, but don't call the Apple users/artists "stupid". - ilgaz, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10ilgaz: hi people. Is there a single sentence explanation why GIMP doesn't have 48bit image editing capability? Or it is common thing in Photoshop too?
(nick censored): ilgaz: yes : you haven't coded yet.
Good luck with artists :) - anonym41414, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Exactly. Getting something for free doesn't mean anything if what you get isn't what you need.
It's like needing a chainsaw and having somebody come up and offer you a free hammer. That's nice and all, but it's not gonna help me get this tree down. - diggnationdevon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I don't care if it is native or not, it's ugly. Where is the aqua???
- ishmal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3ilgaz:
Nobody has implemented it yet. - zumpiez, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4At least it's still hideous.
- protium, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yea, we're talking competition (lol), I've used GIMP, I use gentoo and GIMP is nowhere near the quality of program that Adobe's Photoshop. Gimp suffers from a hideous UI, and lacks the features present of Photoshop, it has only remained useful for linux because Adobe has not made a photoshop for linux. On OSX, I doubt many will use GIMP, aside from that the Krita project is become more and more photoshop like and I feel its a better alternative to photoshop.
- ishmal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Wow. Makes you wonder why open source guys contribute to Mac at all. All the love, maybe?
- SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Oh joy, now I can litter my desktop with 100s o native badly implemented tool windows...
- clith, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2M. Gagnon posted the actual build instrauctions to the wiki at http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/HowToCompileGimp/MacOSX
- adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Seashore looks really good. :-)
- ectogon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1GTK+ = Gimp ToolKit. So while it may be too bad it wasn't written in QT, it isn't surprising. When GIMP/GTK+ was started, I don't think QT was a free alternative. Hopefully, The effort to port GTK to OSX will involve using there HIG as well.
Thank you Immendio! - waken66, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I'm sticking with the cracked beta of CS3 for the time being... GIMP is nice because its free but I won't switch until there is a really good illustrator equivalent.
- greenriver572, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1bring out the gimp to watch over bruce willis
- KataLieb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2jellomizer:
Yea, I know. I was just being an ass on purpose. And personally, since Im a longtime linux user, Im so used to differing guis and several gui toolkits that Id feel weird in OS X :P ("What, these all work the same way! aahhh!") But then im a hopeless hippie too. Let all the different plants thrive side by side ;) Ehm, all different, all equal. Besides, its good for the brain! Forces it to adapt. - directrix13, on 06/30/2009, -0/+1Yeah, visual menu context without having to have the window be active. That is horrible.
- zioxide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's still not native cocoa.. Having some "GTK" app that is just themed like Aqua would be crap. It would be slower than if it was real cocoa, and also, if Apple decides to change the UI, then you'd have to redo the thing all over again
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