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- WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17I am kinda hoping Sun stays independent, as they are great about contributing to open source software, and represent a major portion of Linux's ability to compete with Microsoft (along with Red Hat, IBM, Mozilla, etc.). I would be sad to see Apple buy up Sun and wall off all their open source projects. On the other hand, both companies have a lot of complimentary technology and specialization, and they could both stand to learn from each other. If it's just a one-way absorption, however, it would be a sad day in tech.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Because Netbeans is actually quite good now. It's not a matter of loyalty but what does the job best. In the past that has undoubtedly been Eclipse, right now I'd call them even. When Netbeans 6 comes out I suspect Netbeans will take the lead because the new code editing components will finally be at the same level as the competitors. Netbeans already has the best project management out of the pair.
Right now though there are some very good features for Netbeans. It has fewer plugins but they are very well realised. I particularly like the UML plugin. - williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Good point. I use Eclipse every day. But candidly, NetBeans has a far better UI. Eclipse just proves you can make a confusing and user hostile UI look good. I'm not one of those people who thinks just because I went through the pain of learning Eclipse, so should everyone else.
- autoy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I remember SJ commenting on how Java was dead regarding iPhone: "who uses Java nowdays?" (or something along those lines).
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Most java these days in in the application/server space."
They're actually almost 100% in the server space these days; application development didn't really ever catch on for desktop applications (so much that Apple even stopped developing the Cocoa-Java bridge). This is why you see Apache and IBM so heavy into Java development and evangelizing. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Apple should make Sun's laptops. What a great idea. Everyone is using x86 now anyway.
- drlha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@GMorgan: Java is widely used yes. However what isn't widely used any more is embedded java applets in web browsers, which is what Jobs was referring to. Most java these days in in the application/server space.
- brd6644, on 09/01/2009, -1/+6There is pretty decent penetration of JME (Java Micro Edition) in the portable device market. There are a lot of phones out there that are Java enabled... the RAZR being a pretty popular one.
- gharding, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Netbeans 4 was pretty awful, but 5 and especially 5.5 have really shined bright. Its native support and wizards for JPA and JSF has been amazing. I agree, Netbeans 6 is going to pull ahead of Eclipse. I gotta think that this is going to be mutally good for both companies. They both make excellent hardware (and both have had a spotty past!) and have both been getting more and more involved with the open source community. I can't wait to see what becomes of this.
- DoTheFandango, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4NetBeans is a great, great IDE and I prefer it over any other IDE I use for Java, simply because it's free and does alot of in depth, helpful stuff while I code.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The next J2ME is looking impressive. It includes all the features that have been lacking that has caused the recent fall off. Java is ideally suited to the mobile phone space given the range of various procs used.
Lots of big developments in the Java space in general. Java 6 was a huge step and Java 7 will be even better. Swing apps finally look native when you set L&F. Very good tool support these days. JavaFX to compete in the same space as Silverlight and Flex, something you can be certain will be cross platform.
Write Java off in any area at your peril. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5 As a Linux user, I would not be a happy camper if Sun's open Source projects vanished.
Anyway,it will be fascinating to see how this pans out. - theblackgecko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Sun will be more valuable to Linux as more projects are moved to GPL compatible licenses.
- gharding, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@jrsims:
Whoever buys Sun hardware based on looks is a ***** idiot. Who cares what they look like? Plus, they sort of resemble the Mac Pro case. But still, it's a workstation.. who cares. - rmwimpee, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Eclipse has worked for years on Mac. why should we care about Sun's IDE?
- raynevandunem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@BajaSpyder (#6610333)
What the ***** are you gibbering about, you clueless *****? - brd6644, on 09/01/2009, -0/+2So where is Java 6 for the Mac? It's been almost 6 months since it was released for Windows / Solaris / Linux.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3More valuable to the Linux kernel yes. In general CDDL is perfectly fine for anything that doesn't link to the GPL though. There is no problem with aggregation.
Seeing Java go open source is a million times better than seeing ZFS in the kernel or even DTrace. - theblackgecko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Can someone link to the Sun laptops in question?
- NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Write Java off in any area at your peril."
Somehow, I'm not losing any sleep over it.
-jcr - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2On dead brained comments about why does sun still make processors I take it some of you never heard of the Niagara chip it only has the highest performance per watt of any enterprise server architecture.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10Java is the most used language on the planet by a country mile with the greatest number of programmers outside of things like C/C++.
The iPhone won't run Java because it will enable Apple to control the market on iPhone applications. - petepete, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2theblackgecko : http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra3
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://openjdk.java.net/
And IMO, I'd have to agree with GMorgan; Open Java is much, much more valuable to the community as a whole than DTrace or ZFS, even though I personally hope both also go GPLv2 (dual licensed?) so Linux can share in the Solaris/BSD goodness. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"There are a lot of phones out there that are Java enabled... "
Not only that, but Jazelle technology is built into pretty much every processor used in phones these days (those that are ARM-based, which makes up a very large percentage of the market), but you need a Jazelle enabled-VM to take advantage of it. J2ME is a stellar hit on the embedded market as well, but the desktop is still virtually Java-less. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4The point of buying a Sun laptop is so you don't have x86. I know they sell Opteron servers but their laptops are still Ultra's AFAIK.
- DiggingDeep, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1At JavaOne, the majority of the speakers were presenting with a MacBook.
- payload74, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sun Laptops
http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra3/index.xml - SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Because they're portable to BSD (ZFS is already available in FreeBSD and will be in Leopard)... becuase building OS X on Solaris would take years of development due to the differences in the base OS... because doing so would hold little advantage... I could go on...
- brutalentropy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I think it's a bit of an assumption to say they'd "wall off" all the open source projects Sun is working on. Darwin itself is free and open source, released under the Apple Public Source License http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Public_Source_License. In addition, they've collaborated on WebKit with the Konqueror development team (ya know, the KDE guys).
While I definitely don't agree with everything Apple does (I work on a lot of Macs at my job, and because of that I have a real love/hate relationship with them), I don't think it's fair to just assume they'd close off all of Sun's projects if they merged.
For the record, I don't see this happening. Collaboration maybe, merging is almost out of the question. It'd be sweet to see ZFS in 10.6 though. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Apparently, upon checking, they don't have any current models. Not sure when they went out of manufacturing. They existed only a few months back.
- lieutenantmudd, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Why on Earth would Sun be interested in laptops?
- DiggingDeep, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3For a beta:
1. Visit http://connect.apple.com
2. Login/Signup
3. Click on Downloads
4. Click on Java
"Java SE 6 Release 1 is based on JDK 1.6.0_b88 and brings enhanced functionality to the Java SE platform on Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger. The preview supports both Intel-based and PowerPC-based Macintosh computers and is not removable. Please see the release notes for more information. This is Developer Preview 6 of Java SE 6 Release 1 for Mac OS X Tiger."
My coworker has been using this distribution for awhile with no issues. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Apple are doing their own JDK implementation. It will be released with Leopard and will probably be entirely unavailable on Tiger.
- SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2My 2 favorite computer companies partying together. I'm stoked. They can contribute so much to each other's business, even without stepping on each others toes.
- geekee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sun used to have the same business model as Apple. i.e. make sure your software only runs on your hardware.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"""Darwin itself is free and open source, released under the Apple Public Source License http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Public_Source_License. In addition, they've collaborated on WebKit with the Konqueror development team (ya know, the KDE guys)."""
Well the "open source" system Darwin sits in was next to worthless for contributors the last time I looked into it - sort of like dropping patches down a well.
Incommunicado kernel team, no two-way movement of communication and code - they basically drove away people who would have been interesting in hacking for it, and this is why darwin stayed open source in name only.
As for KHTML, well I won't weigh in on KHTML, ironically enough. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Kilduri
It would also require a mortgage. Besides I'm cautious about the T1 on a desktop with the shared floating point unit. The T2 will solve this but is still overkill. It could probably emulate Core 2 at usable speeds and is entirely unnecessary for sane people. OTOH I left my sanity at the door when I came in :). - jrsims, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Maybe Apple could help Sun with the "beauty" layer of their products? Sun has awesome hardware that is well architected.
But their enclosures are ugly as hell.
Oh, and Sun needs a brand overhaul too. - maehem, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I think Apple will switch to OpenSolaris (or the Intel supported version) from BSD (not the GUI part) by the end of the year. They already love ZFS and Dtrace, why not go for the full monty?
- IamZed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I would have thought they could afford a real one.
- WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I know Apple's track record, and I own some of their stock, and I'm not saying it wouldn't be a smart move for either party. Apple does contribute important code, and has better practices than most when it comes to open source, and support for industry standards in general. They're a far, far cry from Sun's openness of development with the rest of the world, however. The Konqueror developers you alluded to weren't too happy with the way Apple was communicating, releasing large chunks of code without proper documentation (although they've supposedly taken some steps to address that). Sun is just much better about communication and openness for some of their key technologies. If Apple does acquire them (which I'm somewhat doubtful of), I hope they learn to open up a bit more than they have (QuickTime would be a start, all the major non-pro applications would be nice, along with any formats they've created along the way). I'd love to see what Apple interface designers could do with OpenOffice (and GIMP)...
- Hydraulix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@jrsims:
Um, the new Ultra's look just like a Mac pro.
http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra45/
Actually, I'm wrong. They look 1000X better. - SpokeM, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The Java look and feel is much worse on Mac than on Windows,If that would improve it, way to go..
- HaxorTheWorld, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2No wonder it's been so freakin hot, those damn apples made a alliance with the sun!
- ChelseaBlacker, on 12/12/2008, -0/+0Java Java, the fight against flash and silverlight gets going... i'm curious to see how far JAVAFX gets with Sun. This post is also about Sun & java fx.
http://www.itjoblog.co.uk/2008/12/whats-the-use-of ... - cmar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The new Netbeans will also become a first class Ruby editor. Including Wizards for Rails. You will be able to edit Ruby code with code completion, multivariable refactoring, debugging with break points and both JRuby and Ruby support. If you think beyond Java, a nice Ruby on Rails IDE is another great reason to use Netbeans
- kildurin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I am personally hoping for an Ultrasparc T1 based notebook. Man would that be nice.
- mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1apple has typically made their own for Mac tied to WebObjects and such.
- superpixel, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.*snort**snuffle**no jvm support on iphone?**lol**ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... whatever
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