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Paypal to block 'unsafe browsers'

news.bbc.co.uk — Web payment firm Paypal has said it will block "unsafe browsers" from using its service as part of wider anti-phishing efforts.

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  • agisten, on 04/18/2008, -80/+371"The latest versions of Internet Explorer and Firefox support EV SSL certificates, but Apple's Safari browser for Mac and PCs does not."
    In Er Face Apple fan boys ! :-)
    • exomni, on 04/18/2008, -46/+82Yeah, because Safari has never been updated before, and it's impossible to update Apple software at all, right?
      • spdorsey, on 04/18/2008, -12/+27I agree. A simple update would fix this.
      • Trixrox, on 04/18/2008, -22/+35Apple is really good at updating, I have no doubt Apple can get this done. People without Safari got the update to Safari without too much effort a month or so ago.
        • myrddin97, on 04/18/2008, -14/+30How do you update software you don't have?
          • FearlessFreep, on 04/18/2008, -2/+46itunes
          • MikeSD34, on 04/18/2008, -2/+25That's the problem, they didn't have it installed and Apple Automatic Updates (which is installed if you have iTunes or Quicktime installed), prompted them to install it as an update.

            I generally like Apple as a company, but that was inappropriate. Microsoft has done similar things with WGA, Defender, and Silverlight and I don't appreciate that much either.
          • HolyChimp, on 04/18/2008, -5/+13WGA and Silverlight, yes. But Defender is different in that it adds extra protection and should be standard on all Windows PCs.
          • MikeSD34, on 04/18/2008, -7/+5It's a new application and not an update HolyChimp. If it shipped with the operating system, by all means, because it's already installed. I don't go to Windows Update for new applications though. I decide what's best for my computer, no one else.
          • HolyChimp, on 04/18/2008, -4/+7It's a security update, they just gave it a name and a frontend. If Defender did all it's work behind the scenes and the user never saw anything, no-one would have a problem with it.
          • cthellis, on 04/18/2008, -6/+2It installs, runs in the background, can slow down your computer, can conflict with other security software you may already have in place.

            To my knowledge, Windows Defender didn't just stick files on your computer and then open a window telling you what it is and in what ways you could choose to use it, but rather came in, set up camp, and did what it wanted regardless of what you already had running. (At least in the beginning.)
          • Meep3D, on 04/18/2008, -3/+13Except Silverlight is an optional update, and not flagged for download by default, despite the fact that it may actually be useful to have unlike Safari.
        • sp4zzj4zz, on 04/18/2008, -8/+39Exactly. I have never installed Safari on my PC, though I do have iTunes installed for my iPod, and yet, every time there's an available update for Safari, Apple Update insists that I install it. Another reason for me to dislike Apple.
          • Markie1006, on 04/18/2008, -27/+3That's a mighty high horse you've climbed on.

            Being offered it as an option does not equal 'insisting'.

            I mean it's not as if it would go ahead and install it anyway regardless of whether you have it selected of not, unlike a certain company in Redmond.
          • sp4zzj4zz, on 04/18/2008, -3/+28So you're telling me that I shouldn't be annoyed that a program I have explicitly NOT installed keeps asking me to install it via Apple Update every time they offer an update for the program I haven't installed?

            Right. That makes sense.

            It's already being offered to me, via the Safari website. If I wanted it, I would download it. What really irks me though, is that there doesn't seem to be an option to disable updates for specific software.
          • sp4zzj4zz, on 04/18/2008, -16/+3Also, I'm not defending M$...i dislike them just as much, but...

            M$ has never "forced" me to install anything, and if you are too computer illiterate to turn off Automatic Updates, well then, who's fault is that?
          • cthellis, on 04/18/2008, -2/+6Microsoft has frequently forced you to install something, sp4zzj4zz. (Some of them are mentioned above and elsewhere.) You may not have noticed or needed to use them, but they, and others (like getting random toolbars and other apps if you're not paying attention when downloading certain products), have done this for ages.

            I think the pressure to get Safari on is mainly to get people to have the WebKit rendering engine files on their machine at all. Just as iTunes tied Quicktime into itself, I think we're going to see WebKit calls become common a part of that software-scape, so it'll be like updating your JRE or Flash version or whatever else you're likely to run across even during regular web browsing.

            If Safari doesn't install a pre-loader, become your default browser automatically, or do anything else obtrusive, then it's one of the LEAST-offensive of these offenses. (I don't even know if it sticks an icon on your desktop.)


            They should be straightforward about it in their Updater though, to be sure. Not checked by default, visually separated from common updates, and with an "info" box telling you why they recommend you use Safari. And if they ARE planning on leaning on WebKit more in the future (especially what with the iPhone and the direction the iPods are going being what they are), make that information plainly available too.
          • itsthebrod, on 04/18/2008, -2/+8Count me as loathing Apple for regularly trying to get me to install Safari even though I only have (and only want) iTunes on my PC. Their software updater is ***** retarded.
          • Meep3D, on 04/18/2008, -2/+15Its amazing how deluded and quite frankly idiotic the MS hating fanboys are. If Safari was unchecked by default it would be 'offered'. By checking it along with all the other updates it is definately 'insiting'. That and every time you update anything by Apple it insists on spewing its crap all over your desktop, start menu and on boot up even if you've already disabled it.

            iTunes is the new RealPlayer. As I said above, I have Silverlight sitting, unchecked by default, in my windows update list. If MS does something as blatantly necessary as forcing IE7 onto people to try and phase out the disasterous liability that is IE6 people throw a fit, but when Apple try and foist software that has nothing to do with the original product* as a part of a 'software update' people still think it's fine. What gives?

            * And you can't not use iTunes without a lot of hassle. Got an iPod? You have no choice.
          • cthellis, on 04/18/2008, -3/+1Technically, you still have a choice with the iPod... You just have to flash your firmware and stick the likes of Rockbox on it. ;-)

            Meanwhile, the only thing being addressed here is the specific vitriol people are reserving for Apple. Despite dozens of publishers' software having "attached software you may not need" "checked by default" for installation (sometimes not even with a checkbox pre-install, but a new window that comes up WHILE you're installing the main software, so you have to be paying enough attention to realize that it's trying to install something completely different) over the past decade or so, it's APPLE that's being the biggest bad-guy... somehow. I'm not talking about "hidden spyware" stuff here; plenty of 100% legit publishers with desired software work up cross-marketing deals (or extra-promoting their own software you may purchase an upgrade for) to bring in more money, feeding you toolbars, sometimes software the relates to what you DO want, and sometimes software that has absolutely nothing to do with what you want. (Like downloading a new version of Acrobat Reader and getting a Photoshop Elements trial in there. Thankfully they stopped down that.) And despite Microsoft doing it consistently through their updates--even doing so with their own browser--it's APPLE that deserves the most vocal attacks. (No, IE7 was not simply a "security update to IE6." Updating IE6 is updating IE6, and otherwise you throw pointers to new software and convince people to choose to upgrade to your newer version.)

            If you're going to complain, complain equally and non-hypocritically. Unfortunately, I'm too jaded to dig up much vitriol for any of it anymore. I just know what to keep an eye out for. "Uncheck other boxes... No, I don't want GameSpy... No, I don't want that update..."
          • Speed, on 04/18/2008, -0/+6Read what he said, "without a lot of hassle".

            When I update my iTunes (which I don't even like using), I don't want Safari being installed. Gamespot and Safari are two different things. Gamespot can be useful for PC gamers who like to play multiplayer games. Safari is just a web browser I want nothing to do with.

            And in my opinion, Apple does deserve the most vocal attacks since they are constantly criticizing Windows for doing the same. Ever see their Mac vs. PC bloatware ad? You can't slam Microsoft for having all kinds of bloatware installed in Windows PCs while trying to force software that's completely unrelated upon me.
          • axcess99, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2I haven't seen the windows Apple Software Updated but isn't there a way to select the safari update and then in a menu "Ignore This Update (and future updates)" like in the macintosh Software Updater? I know it's not obvious (in the Macintosh version) but it is there and then u never see those updates again (unless you reset ignored updates).
          • cthellis, on 04/19/2008, -2/+1Additional applications aren't "bloatware," however. Bloat has to do with what slows down your system operation (adding to startup time, occupying too much memory space, adding unnecessary extensions to an application itself and slow down ITS performance...) not "does it take up space on your hard drive." Otherwise having a photo program with more sample pictures than another makes it "bloated." So long as something's not being intrusive, I can usually care less if it's on my drive. (It's always of trivial size compared to any other content. And by that I of course mean "porn.")

            The main annoyance is indeed, as axcess says, that you can't key it to "ignore" either. Having it auto-checked is annoying enough, but having it pop up continually would be even worse.

            Unfortunately, I won't notice it if they do change it, since I play with way too many browsers for my own good. ;-)
          • jjk7288, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Actually there are plugins for Winamp which will sync your iPod for you.

            http://mlipod.sourceforge.net/
          • cthellis, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1They seem to have taken care of much of it: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2008/0 ...
            (Of course there's also... http://www.theangrydrunk.com/2008/04/18/oh-for-the ... ) ;-)

            Now they have to turn off the "checked by default." It's pretty obvious, though, and there IS an info screen. Which is nice. (Hopefully it'll bring in info about all of the random updates, rather than "marketing speak" to convince you to download a new program.)
        • Teej, on 04/18/2008, -1/+8Apple is really good at updating. Right. That's why Bootcamp drivers haven't been updated since October and there are still some glaring issues like no trackpad-tap clicking.
      • houndeyex, on 04/18/2008, -13/+13For a nominal fee...
      • ultrafez, on 04/18/2008, -8/+9It's waaay to easy get Safari installed if you have Apple Update installed on Windows... the bloody thing tries to install Safari automatically! Long live Firefox!
      • heystoopid, on 04/18/2008, -5/+8Safari was the reason why it is so easy for god's new overpriced toy Mac Book Air to be pwnd in less then 2 minutes flat , talk about insecurity !
      • djbon2112, on 04/18/2008, -0/+9I think it's better to ask, if this is a common feature in FF and IE, why has it not ALREADY been implemented in Safari? Or does it take a secure site threating them to get some basic security in the browser?
      • MioTheGreat, on 04/18/2008, -4/+10Absolutely...


        .....But you'll need the new version of OSX for it.
      • DarkDx, on 04/19/2008, -1/+4If this were internet explorer "Microsoft is lame! they should have had that feature x months ago like safari!!!"
    • dcollins, on 04/18/2008, -20/+107I use FireFox with my mac, and so does everyone else I know, so we'll survive. :)
      • SebHughes, on 04/18/2008, -9/+19I used Opera at first on my Mac but it was just crappy, so I swapped to FireFox and have never looked back.
        • HackerThatsme, on 04/18/2008, -6/+6Firefox FTW
        • BabyWookie, on 04/18/2008, -5/+5I use Opera as my primary browser in Windows, Leopard and Linux. It's by no means crappy.
        • Flummoxer, on 04/18/2008, -2/+1Oops.
      • ravage86, on 04/18/2008, -9/+25I love Firefox, but not on the Mac. Firefox is completely awesome on Windows, but slow as ***** on the Mac and nothing I've experienced starts and performs faster than Safari. I don't want to wait 5 seconds to open my browser, I want to click it and have it be open instantly. Plus, its just pretty. Firefox's interface doesn't just screams gtk at me and i don't like it.
        • thepyro, on 04/18/2008, -1/+23Firefox 3 works a lot better than version 2 on OS X.
        • spoogieking012, on 04/18/2008, -4/+8then download a theme/skin and make firefox look pretty.
        • heystoopid, on 04/18/2008, -1/+5Firefox is fully customizable !
        • coolbru, on 04/18/2008, -8/+2It's nothing to do with skins, the rendering in FF3 is just not as good. We're not talking window chrome here, but the actual HTML content. FF3 is still a long way behind Safari there, especially for CSS3 (and Opera is even better at that). FF3b5 is still pretty unstable - I don't actually have to do anything to make it crash, just launch it and wait a couple of hours. It is a massive improvement over 2.0 though.
          • codelogic, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2"just launch it and wait a couple of hours"

            I see, is that how you use all browsers?
          • nmnnotmyname, on 04/18/2008, -0/+1HAH?! ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS?!

            Firefox 3 has much improved support for HTML and rendering it. Much faster and much more accurate. It's nearly as good as Safari's. are you crossing unknown territory?

            If it crashes on OS X... then all i can say is... too bad for you guys.
      • unmarked, on 04/18/2008, -5/+22I like Safari -- so Paypal basically is telling me they no longer want my business. Guess I'll start looking at Google Checkout.
        • codelogic, on 04/18/2008, -0/+4Good luck using Google checkout on eBay (which happens to the primary reason most people use Paypal).
        • nmnnotmyname, on 04/18/2008, -0/+4They're telling Apple to either fix the problem or ***** off and die. The best thing you could do about now is use some sort of user agent switcher, if Safari has one.
          • sonicjosh, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2Yeah, it's built in; preferences --> advanced --> look for it, you have to have it display another menu (which I can not quite remember the name of, I'm on linux now).
      • Namelessthinker, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1I use Firefox on my mac too, but it uses much more ram than safari.
    • Cimlite, on 04/18/2008, -20/+40There's a bunch of Mac fanboys, no doubt about that... but I've found that most of them don't actually like Safari but prefer Firefox.

      I doubt that any real number of people would get upset about this.
      • RobotLeAwesome, on 04/18/2008, -30/+4most people using a computer, regardless of OS - use Firefox.
        • Trixrox, on 04/18/2008, -2/+18I do not think Firefox is the majority market leader.
        • sp4zzj4zz, on 04/18/2008, -1/+21Ummm, no. Sadly, most people use IE. Check your facts, please.
          • RobotLeAwesome, on 04/18/2008, -4/+3sorry, you're right - I should of said "most competent computer users"
          • Macskeeball, on 04/18/2008, -5/+2@Robot It's also "should have," not "should of." A little thing, but I thought I'd let you know.
          • RobotLeAwesome, on 04/18/2008, -3/+1Ah so I should of said should have
        • ArchangelZLT, on 04/18/2008, -5/+4I think by most people, he means most geeks. So basically he's right.
        • Intamin, on 04/19/2008, -1/+1I use IE for Digg b/c Digg crashes FF like the Lost's island crashes planes.

          Other than that, it's FF--but that's not the case with 85 percent of the populace.
        • FairDinkumMate, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3Hey intamin - what OS are you using? Digg crashes FF often on my XP system but I have no problem with it on my Linux(Ubuntu) system not sure why...
          • Intamin, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1I'm using XP SP2, so that would correlate.
      • Radan, on 04/18/2008, -5/+20Again, "I-have-no-idea-what-I'm-freakin'-talking-about-but-I-spam-the-Interwebs-with-my-nonsense-anyway-town" is that way. -------->
      • Gabberwok, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3The current release (not including the beta people keep mentioning) of Firefox is ridiculously slow compared to Safari on the Mac, so many people who would otherwise have preferred Firefox use Safari - including me. Fortunately I don't really give a s*** about PayPal. My main gripes with Safari are about compatibility with Google Docs.
      • johnpaul191, on 04/20/2008, -1/+1I dunno what i am doing, but my Safari is generally a LOT faster than Firefox. I often have Safari, Firefox, and Camino open. As expected, there are a few sites that one browser is significantly better for. I'm running OS X 10.5 btw.
    • brugger, on 04/18/2008, -25/+18just the fact that you are so excited to find an "issue" with anything Apple, tells me you would love to be a fanboy too
      • withears, on 04/18/2008, -2/+6Fanboy ENVY!
      • nmnnotmyname, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2hah, worth a chuckle. Still trying to evaluate if it was stupidity, sarcasm, or delusion.
    • santaliqueur, on 04/18/2008, -23/+18Reaching much?

      Also, why are ALL Apple users called fanboys, but there's no Windows fanboys such as yourself?
      • dortiis, on 04/18/2008, -5/+10why are all non-Apple users automatically Windows users?

        I'm more bi-OS (windows for gaming, linux for everything else)

        would that make me a lindows fanboy?
        • kipmartin, on 04/18/2008, -11/+4no, that would make you a geek with no life.
        • BrokenCircle, on 04/18/2008, -1/+12Nobody was a fan of Lindows.
        • zetsurin, on 04/18/2008, -9/+5"why are all non-Apple users automatically Windows users?"

          Because the number of those non-Apple, non-Windows users can be rounded down to 0%.
          • PARTyZAN, on 04/18/2008, -4/+4Yeah. But on the other hand, if you count the number of those non-Windows, non-Linux users, you should get the same number.

            OH SHI~
      • cubicledrone, on 04/18/2008, -8/+8They're busy rebooting.
      • zStunna, on 04/18/2008, -6/+17Maybe because most windows users don't sit around all day bragging about what a great OS it is ..
      • coolbru, on 04/18/2008, -4/+27Because even windows user don't like windows.
      • designerutah, on 04/18/2008, -1/+12Because Windows users haven't got the personality to make their OS a cult object?
      • Speed, on 04/18/2008, -3/+8Because Windows users don't act like cyber-JWs and spend every minute of every day trying to convince people to switch OS's?
      • chris1012, on 04/19/2008, -3/+4Because Windows and Linux users have things to keep them preoccupied with all day and all night so we dont go around acting like we have candy up our ass and saying everything on our OS is better than anything else.... such as great games, media center, and all sorts of other cool, fun, and interesting things on the PC. Mac users have a boring OS, we've seen it a few times this week already where mac users make desktop art out of folders... most fun a mac can have. Its no wonder mac users plague the internet with their fanboyism because they probably get so bored that they just come on and troll/spam fanboy ***** simply because they have nothing better to do
        • FairDinkumMate, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Dugg because it's the first time I've ever seen anyone put Windows & Linux users on the same team!!!
      • Incomp3tnt, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2Because you'd have to be a fanboy to want to use a Macintosh.
    • bryan986, on 04/18/2008, -3/+39"Firefox 2 supports it with an add-on"

      So almost all Firefox users won't have it anyway
      • thatcrazycommie, on 04/18/2008, -0/+14Once they start getting blocked from Paypal I imagine most of them will get it. Also, Firefox 3 has it built in.
    • xlneoMAXlx, on 04/18/2008, -16/+7Damn macfags
      • dmark77, on 04/18/2008, -2/+6I love how you make the leap from 'I disagree with your computing platform' to fag in 2 seconds.

        Do you go from sex to orgasm equally that fast?
        • MacParrot, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3From what his wife told me, yes. Yes he does
    • rasterbator, on 04/18/2008, -12/+6You can still use Safari to access PayPlenty
      Get a clue: Develop > User Agent > Internet Explorer 6
      Done.
      • codelogic, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2Uh, changing your user agent won't magically enable EV SSL, it's not an easter egg.
    • bbqsalad, on 04/18/2008, -15/+9LOL lookit all the Apple noobs get angry! HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      PS: I just put a Zune up my ass!!1
      • tikidrummer928, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1yep your cool. that was a sarcastic comment since you are most likely to much of a idiot to get it. get your head out of gate's ass.
      • uilhao, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1dude, get out side
    • Smokezz, on 04/18/2008, -1/+36Who cares about EV SSL? Its just another cash grab by Verisign, Thawte, etc...
    • jswanner, on 04/18/2008, -5/+22I think it's a much bigger deal that IE6 does not support EV SSL than Safari not supporting it.
      • Rikkochet, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2All Paypal really has to do is redirect them to windowsupdate and tell them they need to update their Windows.
        And if they're running pirated Windows... Part of me wants to say "tough, can't buy crap off eBay then" and the nerdier half wants to say they should send them to getfirefox.com instead...
        • csulok, on 04/19/2008, -1/+1ie7 is free for pirated windows copies too. if you had a nerdier half you knew about this already, but i guess your stupider half occupies that area instead...
    • MSP1, on 04/18/2008, -8/+1Do the words "grow up" mean anything to you?
    • coolbru, on 04/18/2008, -0/+29Um, EV SSL certs provide exactly the same level of technical security as other SSL certs, even self signed ones. The only difference is how much you paid for them. The only difference in browsers is what colour the address bar displays. As Smokezz says, it's just a cash grab by verisign and friends who charge you a few thousand $ for looking at your passport for 2 minutes.
      • axcess99, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3Wish i could dig this comment more.
      • 0011002, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1the cert themselves but they are more of a pain in the ass to validate than normal SSLs because you have to have a lawyer sign *****. EV Certs are very freaking overrated however. I think more users are going to say "why the hell is this site turning my bar green! It's invading my computer!" All an EV has is an extra Intermediate file. But i think what they are talking about is how FF3 you can just click the address bar to see the site identity and basically saying users are to dumb to click the little pad lock on the bottom right corner.
    • Zippo, on 04/18/2008, -2/+10So... give Apple a week to implement and update Safari.
    • tikidrummer928, on 04/19/2008, -2/+4apple fan boy here. i love firefox. i guess i'm a poser.
    • PathDaemon, on 04/19/2008, -1/+3...and the only reason Safari doesn't support is is that Apple has never bought into the whole "HEY LOOK THE ADDRESS BAR TURNS PRETTY COLORS" thing. It just displays a small, simple lock icon and leaves it at that.
    • CrashKinkaide, on 04/19/2008, -2/+1While I love the Mac (probably because I use Windows and Linux for 40% & 15% of my computing needs, respectively), I truly despise the Safari browser and use Firefox on all platforms.
    • ilgaz, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2It is great to use a browser from a company who isn't bribed to support EV certificate HOAX.
  • BXRWXR, on 04/18/2008, -7/+61It's for their own good.
    • rcarroll215, on 04/18/2008, -10/+7It really is. Safari users may think that Paypal is just being "anti-Apple", but EV SSL is added protection against phishing. Paypal scams seem to be on the rise lately.
      • axcess99, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2But it really isn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Validation_C ...

        the people that fall for phising are already neglecting the lock/gold-bar/etc to denote ssl sites, as well as the URL bar. Making the URL bar green isn't going to change that. People don't notice if something is missing. It's not human nature to think "99% of the web is one way, and this site is different therefore if i go to this site and it's like what normal sites look like and not special then it's bad".
    • palmer, on 04/18/2008, -11/+3Yeah, this is coming from PayPal, an amateur-hour Web site that USES AN E-MAIL ADDRESS AS A USER ID.

      Any site doing that has zero credibility in general, let alone the authority to lecture anyone about security or to set standards.
      • Blandyman, on 04/18/2008, -1/+10An amateur-hour website that has so many clients and so much money it would make your balls into dust.

        Good job idiot. Good ***** job.
      • codelogic, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2Paypal also supports hardware token based authentication FYI in addition to email addresses.
      • Rikkochet, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2An email address is a reliable way to ensure a unique primary key and no more trying to dream up another login name because 'LoveToSpooge' is taken on half of the sites you join. What's the problem with that? No, seriously. As a software developer, I ask this.
  • loudthing, on 04/18/2008, -34/+114Any Mac users out there actually use Safari and not Firefox?
    • XxtraLarGe, on 04/18/2008, -20/+13I have PowerBook G4 running 10.3.9. Most images don't display using FireFox 2, so I still use Safari.
      • Macskeeball, on 04/18/2008, -0/+5That is odd. You might try creating a new Firefox profile folder by moving ~/Library/Application Support/Firefox to another location. Relaunching Firefox after doing that will bring Firefox back to square one.
      • chris1012, on 04/19/2008, -5/+3that's odd, firefox 2 for PC (windows, linux, etc) never has that problem. Guess mac isn't so good
    • spdorsey, on 04/18/2008, -10/+50I absolutely LOVE Safari. If for nothing else than for its ability to resize form fields on the fly. Wow, is that ever handy!

      But I find myself using FF more for its FoxMarks plug-in. I can distribute my bookmarks across all my computers. You can do this with .mac on Safari, but it does not work well, and it's SLOOOOW.
      • skyshock1, on 04/18/2008, -8/+2http://del.icio.us
        • spdorsey, on 04/18/2008, -1/+5I have an account there. I'm not a fan of that approach. I know it's popular, but I have a hard time adopting the style.
      • HolyChimp, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3I use delicious for saving articles that I might find useful later or that are generally a good read.
        Foxmarks lets me sync the bookmarks I don't use delicious for, like the ones in my bookmark bar.
        They both have their uses, but one couldn't really replace the other.
      • jze17, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Resizable textareas can be done in IE/Firefox too. It's not on the fly but all you have to do is click on the bookmarklet and whaa laaa. The script can be found here. hxxp://en.javascript.gibney.org/resizer/
    • skyshock1, on 04/18/2008, -22/+69Absolutely. FF on Mac positively blows. The webkit rendering engine is superior in every way possible. Unless you need some functionality provided by some obscure extension, there's no reason to use FF on a mac.
      • zorinlynx, on 04/18/2008, -5/+27Try Firefox 3. Things are much improved.
        • skyshock1, on 04/18/2008, -10/+3That's what I was basing my original comment on. Tried the latest beta. No thanks.
        • appleswitch, on 04/18/2008, -1/+4I've always hated Firefox for the Mac, and been VERY vocal about it.

          Posted from Firefox 3 beta 5 on the Mac :) best browser I've ever used.
        • Mast3rDigg3r, on 04/19/2008, -1/+3no, safari is way faster than firefox 3.5
      • xike, on 04/18/2008, -3/+13I need consistency across platforms (no Safari for Linux), and the ability to customize my browser for my own tastes. Apple's generally of the opinion that their products are perfect as-is, and doesn't do much to support customization.

        There's no reason to say that there's no reason to use FF on a mac.
        • skyshock1, on 04/18/2008, -13/+2You fail at reading comprehension. "Unless you need some functionality provided by some obscure extension..."
      • carnag3aus, on 04/18/2008, -1/+4AdBlock Plus.
    • leffunov, on 04/18/2008, -20/+11Are you kidding? Safari has always beat Firefox (on a mac)
    • exomni, on 04/18/2008, -8/+26I prefer Safari. Firefox is a memory hog, plug-ins are bloated so I don't use any, and the rendering engine is far inferior to webkit. There are a bunch of very helpful features in Safari that just aren't there in Firefox, and the general layout and usability of Safari trumps Firefox any day.

      I sue Firefox on my linux machine, though.
      • HolyChimp, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2I wish I didn't need Firebug and foxmarks, because Firefox 2 is so slow in comparison to Safari, especially on JS intensive sites like digg. Firefox 3 became incredibly unstable for me after beta 5, so guess I'm waiting for RC1 for a less memory hogging firefox.
      • IEatHamburgers, on 04/18/2008, -0/+17Woah woah woah, there's no need to resort to legal action. Firefox can't be that bad on your linux machine can it?
        [/sarcasm]
      • Psythik, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3So upgrade to Firefox 3. It doesn't have those problems.
    • modusop, on 04/18/2008, -5/+17I like Safari - and besides, why would you think that the majority of users wouldn't be using the default browser?
    • Aidje, on 04/18/2008, -2/+6Everyone once in a while I'll try out Safari, Firefox, Camino, and Opera. I'll occasionally use Safari for a few days, but Firefox always wins in the end. The main reasons for me are 1) I hate to part with the few extensions that I use and 2) the keyboard shortcuts in other browsers make so little sense to me.
    • DeFex, on 04/18/2008, -11/+6How could apple possibly make a product thats inferior? Unpossible!
    • kipmartin, on 04/18/2008, -3/+11im fine with Safari. its got a very small footprint, it tests faster on all the Mac benchmarking tests--by far, and it accepts my hotmail, gmail, work (lotus--yikes!), and AIM email in one sidebar. oh yeah the webkit rendering engine is awesome and i dont need anything fancy with email--i just want the damned emails!!!

      did anyone stop to think that this may be paypal's fault? it is their silly system that gets hacked to death. or maybe the lowend paypal users who open mail from paypal@suckyoudry.hackyouup.ru?

      paypal is still in the 90s. Safari is lean and elegant.
      • MacParrot, on 04/18/2008, -1/+2I stop using PayPal a long time ago. Right around the wsame time I stopped using eBay. I think there's a connection
        • codelogic, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2So? What's your point? That everyone should stop using eBay like you? That's like telling a Mac parrot to stop using a Mac.
      • codelogic, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2kipmartin, you're right, but it's not only "lowend" paypal users that get caught in phishing scams. In case you're not aware of the current state, many phishing sites have valid SSL certs and use much more sophisticated methods than email links like "OMG T0 R3cover ur Payp4l passw0rd cliK h3re. LOLZ".
    • LargeTrout, on 04/18/2008, -3/+7I use Firefox. I tried Safari a few times but just couldn't get used to it. Besides, it doesn't render some websites I frequent properly.
      • MacParrot, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3I keep FireFox and a few other browsers for those times. Doesn't happen that often at least for me.
      • codelogic, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2I like Firefox, one reason being that Firefox supports showing icons in the bookmarks toolbar, which I find very useful. By default it's disabled on the Mac, so that it resembles Safari, but it can be enabled using this extension:

        https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/680 ...

        Simple addons like this are what Firefox a better browser IMHO.
    • saikyan, on 04/18/2008, -0/+8I see no reason not to use Safari. It's fast and widely compatible, at least for me. On my PC, I've been using Firefox for years, and I've never felt the need to change that either. Whatever works for you, works.
    • Angostura, on 04/18/2008, -0/+6I've got both Safari and the FireFox 3 RC on my Mac and I almost always use Safari. Why? I find the integration with the OS more important than the excellent plug-ins that FF provides. So I like my autofill, I really don't want to do without keychain integration. I also like the resizeable text boxes (he look, I don't need to type this comment into a letterbox) and the find functionality is puurty.

      FF3 is nice, but I prefer Safari.
    • TheTSArt, on 04/18/2008, -3/+3Stopped using Firefox when version 2 came out. Safari 3 is great, I use other browsers less and less now, but when I do it's mostly Camino.
    • Phil13, on 04/18/2008, -2/+6I prefer Safari over Firefox any day on my Mac. Firefox just doesn't do it for me, and I don't care for plugins. If I'm stuck on Windows I go Opera, or Firefox on Linux.
      I really don't get this whole 'my browser is better than your browser' bull. I like Safari and so do many other people. Firefox isn't God and your opinion doesn't speak for everyone.
    • designerutah, on 04/18/2008, -0/+4Depends on how important it is to have a Private Browsing porn mode as to whether it is Safari or Firefox I'm using...;)
    • saxreturns, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3Camino. A nice intermediate between the two, I find.
    • MonkeyFarts, on 04/18/2008, -1/+4"Any Mac users out there actually use Safari and not Firefox?"
      Um, yes, that would be almost *all* of us...
    • tpawloski, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2I love both browsers however Firefox has two features that Safari does not.
      1. The option to click the drop down on the address bar to find a recently used domain.
      2. Clicking the search field in Google to find a past used search query.
      These are two lazy features that do not require any typing. But I like to use them. Firefox wins.
      • gravityboard, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2I don't have a strong opinion although I tend to use Safari, but I wanted to correct your #2 -- Safari absolutely saves forms on google and other sites, giving you the option of clicking on the search field and seeing a list of alphabetized past queries. I'm sure of this because.. um, well, let's just say I had a bad experience...
    • Kronk42583, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1i use firefox on PC, and always did on mac, one day, maybe 8 months or so ago, firefox just started eating a dick on my computer. it was so slow it was unusable. so i used safari and its been great. the new firefox seems to have gotten much much better, but safari is still marginally faster. i hear firefox 3 is going to be the one to beat soon though. honestly, i don't think it matters that much as long as im not using IE. opera is also very quick on my mac.
    • kevanloy, on 04/19/2008, -1/+1i use safari because firefox still doesn't always render text and images correctly on my powerbook or new imac. there's really no advantage i can see from using camino over safari because it doesn't support any of the plugins firefox does

      ...let's be honest though most of us are still using internet explorer on our macs. you know, the one that hasn't been updated for like 5 years.
    • WraythX, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2I use Safari exclusively.
    • sonicdeviant, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1I use Safari too, though I use Firefox when Safari isn't supported on a website; this will be another example of that until either Apple changes or PayPal changes.
  • blah247, on 04/18/2008, -19/+90I get sick of Itunes trying to install Safari every time it Itunes updates. I'm quite happy with Firefox.
    • megatard, on 04/18/2008, -6/+8Just tell it to ignore the update and you will never see it again.
      • HolyChimp, on 04/18/2008, -0/+12Until there's a new Safari update.
        It's a solution, but the problem shouldn't be there.
      • Kratos76, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3And in the mean time, you have a Minimum of four apple services running All The Time on your computer, even when you're not using the software. Apple is getting as bad as the bloated HP printer software.
    • Twinnie, on 04/18/2008, -6/+2Use Songbird. It's a little (read: very) unstable right now but it'll play fine with an iPod and won't pester you with all the Apple crap. I can use it to do both my Nokia phone and iPod in the same program.
    • BFisch06, on 04/18/2008, -0/+1I do just fine with WMP.... and Firefox, for the record.
    • krahzee, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3amen. I hate the fact that itś bundled to itunes to begin with. itunes is the only software on my system that prompts me to update when it is completely closed.
      Smack dab in the middle of playing COD 4. Creeping up to a sniper position and boom! ¨Do you want to update?¨ Then I get shot in the ***** head.
    • zanthrax, on 04/18/2008, -0/+5The same thing goes for quicktime.
      Realplayer did the same thing... Apple will start losing fans if they keep this up.

    • FvckingFvck, on 04/19/2008, -0/+0I uninstalled i tunes the moment Safari showed up in the update. Lameness. I have nothing against the browser, but to push it on ipod/itunes users is in bad taste. That said, Firefox FTW.
  • Kumah, on 04/18/2008, -31/+10And thus Paypal alienates Mac users.
    • OneLess, on 04/18/2008, -8/+29Just like the rest of society, then.
    • dext3r, on 04/18/2008, -6/+12No, Paypal alienates Safari users. I use Firefox. Hurr there, guy.
    • 24imac, on 04/18/2008, -5/+3I dont use PayPal, and I use Safari.
    • sp4zzj4zz, on 04/18/2008, -5/+1Boo Hoo.
    • bigkevheck, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2Quit using Camino or quit using Paypal? Sorry Paypal... [Fires up firefox one last time to withdrawal his paypal balance.]
      • codelogic, on 04/18/2008, -0/+1Camino will probably get EV SSL support sooner or later. Open source is usually fast when it comes to necessities.
  • Supernova36, on 04/18/2008, -3/+427If you're still using IE 3, you don't deserve to be online.
    • drastik21, on 04/18/2008, -3/+31someone please take away their one free internet coupons.
      • ANT1138, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3They never got one. They get nothing but goatse, day and night.
    • Shiner6, on 04/18/2008, -28/+144If you're using IE you don't deserve to be online.
      • Ravatar, on 04/18/2008, -3/+53You heard the man 90% of the internet, gtfo.

        =/
        • JulyZerg, on 04/18/2008, -0/+5Well... there is a law that states "90% of everything is worthless"
        • NathanCH, on 04/19/2008, -0/+790% of internet users don't use IE. It's like 65% now.
        • gravityboard, on 04/19/2008, -1/+1"Well... there is a law that states "90% of everything is worthless""

          please direct me to the 10 useful % of the internet. I've been dying to see it..
        • JDoorjam, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Let's be more forgiving than that, please, people.

          ***** or GTFO.
      • robthom, on 04/18/2008, -22/+5Firefox wierdos should be rounded up and sent to a leper colony.
    • pizzas, on 04/18/2008, -14/+12i clicked it about 30 times but my green digg button no longer seems to be working

      [meant to reply to shine6....same difference]
      • Hockey37, on 04/18/2008, -22/+5Hmmm, weird. My red one works just fine. See...
        • DefaultGen, on 04/18/2008, -1/+12Everyone else's does too apparently.
    • joelito, on 04/18/2008, -1/+27I use Windows 3.11 YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!!!
      • Altanar, on 04/19/2008, -0/+22Yeah, why downgrade to Windows 95. It's a friggin' system hog! Compared to Windows 3.11's requirements of 3 MB of RAM and 16 MB of HD space and a 386 processor, XP's greedy need of a 486 with 16MB of RAM and a whopping 400MB (!!!) of HD space. I hear that tons of people tried 95 and decided that 3.11 runs much better on their system, so they "upgraded" to the older OS. MS's being so unfair by no longer selling the superior 3.11. Damn them!
    • iNunchuk, on 04/18/2008, -2/+2It seems as though Paypal is handing its ***** over to Microsoft on a silver platter. I mean, really, EV SSL certificates and this hasn't been picked up by the open source community (which makes Safari and Firefox) ? That just seems a little too suspicious.
      • erkokite, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3EV SSL is in Firefox 3. And it is available as an addon in FF2.
    • thegreatanti, on 04/19/2008, -1/+1The same goes for Opera 9(.5) users.
  • RobotLeAwesome, on 04/18/2008, -30/+14They should block Internet Explorer because it's garbage.
    • RobotLeAwesome, on 04/18/2008, -11/+6people are digging me down because they think Internet Explorer *isn't* garbage?
      • mickstephenson, on 04/18/2008, -18/+6people are digging you down because the new versions of internet explorer are clearly superior to safari
        • spdorsey, on 04/18/2008, -2/+10I totally disagree - as a web developer, and I edit strictly in standards-compliant CSS.

          My pages work in Safari, and most often not in MSIE (any version) without hacks and tweaks. I'm curious to see how the latest version works. If past versions are any indication, I don;t think it will be any good. I'm very unhappy with MSIE.
          • HolyChimp, on 04/18/2008, -0/+6IE8 seems to have finally fixed the problems IE had with margins and such, so that's a good thing. IE7+ is definately not as bad as IE6, but it gets the same stick due to reputation.
        • RobotLeAwesome, on 04/18/2008, -0/+5I never mentioned Safari - as a web browser IE is horrible.
        • RevoFM, on 04/18/2008, -2/+1... But as a toaster it's great!
      • MonkeyFarts, on 04/18/2008, -0/+1People are digging you down because no sane company would block some 75% of their customers from using their service. That would be what we call *DUR* stupid.

        Stat taken from http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid= ...
  • spdorsey, on 04/18/2008, -25/+30From what I understand, MSIE is the "un-safest" of them all. Will PayPal be blocking it?
    • drastik21, on 04/18/2008, -7/+25yes, if they want to go broke.
    • SniperGX1, on 04/18/2008, -3/+10Any versions that don't support Extended Validation SSL Certificates will be blocked
    • Trixrox, on 04/18/2008, -21/+7IE is not that horrible.
      • drastik21, on 04/18/2008, -13/+2IE6 is ok, but IE7 is pure evil
        • Radan, on 04/18/2008, -2/+5Please try any of the following CSS commands in any browser and then return to me about which browser is pure evil and which is not.

          border-style: dotted;
          opacity: 0.5;
          right: 50px;
          bottom: 50px;
          img:hover {}
          body { background-image: url(images/picture.png); }
          (This is the point where I got bored)
          #thingy { position: fixed; }
          min-width: 10px;
          max-width: 10px;
          min-height: 10px;
          max-height: 10px;
          text-shadow: 1px 1px 1px black;
          text-align: right;
        • Meep3D, on 04/18/2008, -3/+2IE7 is actually pretty decent. I still don't use it, but on the occasions where I do I have been pleasantly surprised. IE6 on the other hand is simply the worst browser ever made (with the exception of IE5.5 + 5.0).
    • krellor, on 04/18/2008, -9/+3From what I understand, you fail.
      • spdorsey, on 04/18/2008, -5/+2??? - is that an obscure video game reference? I have never heard it, and your post is pointless for that reason.
      • sp4zzj4zz, on 04/18/2008, -0/+0Off with ye heads, the both of you.
    • pizzas, on 04/18/2008, -12/+7why do people get so defensive about IE? are they like the same people who still defend bush? All remaining traces of each (GWB and IE) should be rounded up and launched into deep space. Earth would be almost perfect (dont mind the other galaxies we would destroy in the process)
      • codelogic, on 04/18/2008, -1/+1What people, one guy said it's _ok_, that's not very defensive.
      • brownr21, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2Don't lump IE and GB in the same sentence, douchebag. IE7 UI > FF (IE6) UI.
    • robthom, on 04/18/2008, -11/+2IE rocks, much better than firefox. I would probley move to ubuntu except for that.
      • MacParrot, on 04/18/2008, -4/+1A browser rocks??? I think you re probley worng
      • tugger, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1thats got to be a troll...
    • 10GunSalute, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2Nah, IE 7 and IE 8 are actually pretty secure...or so I'm told
    • salvadorwii, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1they dont have the balls
  • seantubridy, on 04/18/2008, -5/+8Now, I told you to stay away from that browser! It's for your own good, ya hear?
  • eekfuh, on 04/18/2008, -18/+66Apparently Apple spent too much time getting a 100 on the Acid2 test.
    • rcarroll215, on 04/18/2008, -17/+1wat?
    • SniperGX1, on 04/18/2008, -8/+7zing
    • MichaelEgan, on 04/18/2008, -11/+3I actually prefer that to being able to use paypal. What do you need to buy with paypal that you can't get with a credit card these days?
      • iticu, on 04/18/2008, -1/+10Ebay?
        • MacParrot, on 04/18/2008, -1/+4So it's a plus then!
        • MichaelEgan, on 04/18/2008, -1/+1I said -need- and I stick by it. Unless you're on a strict diet of overpriced Wiis and original box action figures you can keep eBay. I'd trade that for not having to test my CSS for hours with jsut one less browser.
    • falafelkiosken, on 04/18/2008, -0/+16no, that's the WebKit team. The team consists of employees of Apple, Nokia, Trolltech and some individual programmers and only make the engine
    • jimthenglishman, on 04/19/2008, -1/+4acid3

      /notsafariuser
  • mickstephenson, on 04/18/2008, -6/+26NOOO now I am gonna have to stop using links2 as my main browser
    • troye, on 04/18/2008, -2/+1is it text like links.
      • mickstephenson, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3if you run it with the "-g" switch it can render images using the framebuffer.
        • mickstephenson, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3I'd like to add this means you can browse porn during a Gentoo install, and not just ASCII porn.
        • tikidrummer928, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2yeah girl show me those letters.
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          • mickstephenson, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2*****, that didn't work http://www.asciipr0n.com/pr0n/pinups/pinup00.txt
          • IronPwnage, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3Dugg for the effort.
          • cthellis, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2She definitely needs a sammich! ;-)

            ...and skeletal restructuring.
  • bumcheekcity, on 04/18/2008, -3/+102Paypal blocking browsers pales into insignificance when you think: Who the HELL is still using Internet Explorer 3? Are these the same people using betamax and horse and cart?
    • Dragular, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3I for one see no advantage in upgrading from our Sticks and Stones to MS Swords. It's a bunch of rubbish... tryin' to make people use new stuff.
    • robthom, on 04/18/2008, -17/+15IE3 is better than firefox.
      • MacParrot, on 04/18/2008, -0/+10You must be one of those vampires that needs negative diggs to live. Accordingly, I dugg you up...DIE!
      • SocialPoison, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3The positive digg is the stake through the heart!
      • Altanar, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Dugg up for trollling for diggs down.
    • TylerDCA, on 04/18/2008, -1/+11I can't imagine people with IE3 being savy enough to use Paypal. Live and learn.
    • painhertz, on 04/18/2008, -2/+10Quit picking on the Amish!
      • haylel, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3If you ever drove through Lancaster, PA and got stuck behind them on the road, you would not be saying that.
    • Kratos76, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2IE6 and 7 don't run too well on my serial 14.4 modem.
    • tikidrummer928, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1do they also go see the picture show on a friday night.
  • mytibt, on 04/18/2008, -20/+10With the fees they charge, my browser is set to BLOCK PAYPAL
  • thedingman, on 04/18/2008, -29/+7Take it a step further and block unsafe operating systems, like Windows.
    • Trixrox, on 04/18/2008, -3/+5Ok, because that makes sense.
    • sp4zzj4zz, on 04/18/2008, -1/+1We like to call it "OS Hardening". Maybe you should look into it.
    • iticu, on 04/18/2008, -7/+4Windows Vista is actually really secure, unlike Leopard.
    • MacParrot, on 04/18/2008, -0/+5Good thing this article was about operating systems otherwise some of you guys would look pretty stupid
  • cyclades, on 04/18/2008, -1/+65What about my Netscape Navigator 1.2? :(
    • zephyr42, on 04/18/2008, -2/+8My dad still uses Navigator *religiously*
      • santaliqueur, on 04/18/2008, -1/+31Like for church websites?
      • troye, on 04/18/2008, -0/+51. Install firefox 3 beta 5.
        2. Download a netscape skin
        3. Import all his bookmarks and history
        4. install all his previous plugins
        5. adjust some speed settings like http.pipellining

        he willl never know the difference
        • Macskeeball, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2You forgot to change the app icon.
    • tugger, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1and mosaic? yes, still have that, and lynx on my working mac sehd
  • S5Z2, on 04/18/2008, -16/+9What is a browser? I don't know much about the Internet.
    • sp4zzj4zz, on 04/18/2008, -3/+5Fail. Totally, completely, and miserably.
  • bag2p, on 04/18/2008, -12/+4ok.
  • betterth, on 04/18/2008, -4/+21Many websites, especially those dealing in tons of secure transactions dealing with personal credit information and what not, should adopt a similar policy.

    Security is a two way street and Paypal can do everything in it's power and still fail when users themselves practice unsafe computing behavior.

    To cover liability and minimize fraud, this is hands down the best option for them.

    I mean, sites like CNN don't need to have the same level of security, but banking sites and sites dealing with money do.
    • dondara, on 04/18/2008, -0/+6There is some other motive here. PayPal doesn't care about anybody but PayPal. The false account locking, the unreasonable fees and very shady way they avoid being regulated as a bank should. They are the scam we should be protected from. I never do business with them and always advise clients to avoid them.
      • unmarked, on 04/18/2008, -0/+4I'm not sure if they are a scam - but there definitely needs to be some regulation and some process in place for resolving issues since they have direct access to bank accounts.
      • ThreeDee912, on 04/18/2008, -0/+1I still don't get what is wrong with PayPal. Most of the accounts that are locked are due to user stupidity. I know a person who actualy fell for a phishing attempt. He seriously thought his "account information must be updated". He got his account hijacked, and PayPal did the right think by locking it down. The next time he logged in, he didn't know why nothing worked. He thought PayPal was trying to steal his money or something. That's when he called me, and I took almost 2 hours explaining to him what really happened.

        All he needed to do was click on the big "RESOVE THIS PROBLEM" button and reconfirm his account.
  • brugger, on 04/18/2008, -14/+6just the fact that you are so excited to find an "issue" with anything Apple, tells me you would love to be a fanboy too
    • sp4zzj4zz, on 04/18/2008, -1/+2We heard you the first time, jackass.
    • HolyChimp, on 04/18/2008, -1/+2Safari doesn't show reply links either?
  • av4rice, on 04/18/2008, -4/+110"We're worried that you might mistake illegitimate phishing sites for our real site"
    "Therefore we're blocking you from our real site and only the illegitimate sites will work for you"
    Problem solved!
    • gravityboard, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1The point is to disable your account, which is the only thing of value to the phisher. If Paypal has you locked down then you can't do any damage by visiting the fake sites.. damage to anyone else, that is. If you've fallen for a phishing scam and are running IE3, congratulations! the contents of your hard drive probably no longer exist!
  • hayzeus, on 04/18/2008, -8/+107Browsers? Telnet to port 80, you pussies.
    • zephyr42, on 04/18/2008, -6/+63You lost 95% of PC users at "Browsers"
      • mhuggins, on 04/19/2008, -0/+6Just click the AOL icon, duh. AOL is the Internet.
    • DeFex, on 04/18/2008, -12/+4and 99.9% of mac users "my internet is broken"
      • starmanfalls, on 04/18/2008, -2/+5why would anyone buy a Mac anyway????
        • tugger, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2because their $1100 pc is crap despite it saying vista-ready, and they never heard of linux
    • dtfinch, on 04/18/2008, -1/+12It gets a little harder when you're on port 443.
      • hayzeus, on 04/18/2008, -0/+17Only if you can't do stream ciphers in your head. Which I can.
    • Perk, on 04/18/2008, -0/+10Wait, Browser? I found this as a Gopher article using Veronica.
    • kh99, on 04/18/2008, -2/+4Porn is not as good that way.
  • willgonz, on 04/18/2008, -1/+43Ok changing the address bar to green is a great idea. But the same idiots who fall for the phishing sites will fall for the following line. 'We are currently having problems with our servers so the above address bar may not be green, but you are still safe." Then they will continue to fall for the same trick.
  • chanop, on 04/18/2008, -3/+6I didn't see Netscape anywhere on that list, will I still be able to use paypal?
    • kh99, on 04/18/2008, -0/+11Yes, just post your credit card number here and we will enable it for you.
    • Anfidurl, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Get Firefox. It uses an updated version of the Netscape rendering engine -- oh, and it doesn't suck like Netscape/MSIE
    • ilgaz, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1If you are a Netscape Suite type of guy I don't blame you but you should really upgrade to Seamonkey. It is SAME as Netscape and even better than Firefox on some occasions. Get Seamonkey, you won't regret it. You just install a Netscape theme if you can't do without it.
  • razicop, on 04/18/2008, -6/+1well its really strange, i haven't got any problem like this, please contact help team, thanks!
  • spyd3rweb, on 04/18/2008, -14/+39The internet should block paypal, its a giant scam.
    • TylerDCA, on 04/18/2008, -4/+9Yes that wonderful Internet Inc. needs to evaluate Paypal and block it, that is brilliant.
  • tformed, on 04/18/2008, -2/+11I guess it's time to upgrade, but I don't want to make the huge leap from 3 to 7.
  • thephosphorbox, on 04/18/2008, -2/+13Ah crap.. I guess I'm going to have to retire my copy of Netscape Navigator 2.2 GOLD that came with my ISP subscription back in the 90's :(
  • spdorsey, on 04/18/2008, -9/+28Best solution: Don't use PayPal.
    • sp4zzj4zz, on 04/18/2008, -4/+8Then how about taking your ultimate wisdom a step further and offering these people some links to PayPal alternatives?
      • spdorsey, on 04/18/2008, -0/+4There's google wallet, but that's not really an alternative. Is eBay even accepting it yet?

        My alternative is to not use eBay or PayPal at all. If I need something, I go to Amazon (great payment and return policies), or I pay with a real credit card (not debit card from my bank). That way, it's going to have the full protection of my credit card company.

        If you don't have a credit card and you don't want to give up eBay, then you may want to reconsider all the stuff you're purchasing and perhaps focus your resources on cleaning up your credit so you can get a "real" credit card (visa/mc/amex). I'm not a fan of credit cards (I'm really not!!) but they do offer protections that debit cards do not.

        It's not much, but that's my wisdom. Cheers.
    • iticu, on 04/18/2008, -2/+3Totally, they shouldn't force us to use safe browsers!
      IE3 has worked for YEARS now. Why should we change?
      • MacParrot, on 04/18/2008, -0/+1I'm guessing you and robthom are real good friends with this IE3 obsession you both have
    • senfo, on 04/18/2008, -1/+2That's a valid solution for the vendor, but what about the consumers?
    • darkamster07, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1eBay isn't a big loss, yeah it's a great idea, but i've been ***** over multiple times buying ***** off eBay. and besides, alot of vastly more legit sites (like amazon) offer prices that are near as low as eBay, and they have a hugely better site and security
  • BuddingMonkey, on 04/18/2008, -3/+7What about Mosaic?
  • bincoder, on 04/18/2008, -3/+10IE3? Oh my! An antique like that should be for sale on ebay.
    • Macskeeball, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1With PayPal as the payment method.
  • bicyclethief, on 04/18/2008, -1/+22Sorry, but people using these outdated browsers will NOT be looking for a lock icon or be aware of a green location bar.
    • Stavrosian, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3And people that fall for common phishing tactics in general might be beyond help anyway.
  • al11588, on 04/18/2008, -20/+4Block the 2 worst browser Safari & Safari. Mac OSX= Fail Microsoft-FTW
    • iceooo3, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3lmao, only in your dreamscape my fellow digger.
    • linuxpenguin, on 04/18/2008, -1/+1MS doesn't win - it only has one of the best browsers, and it happens to be one that Mac also has.
      • ferrite, on 04/18/2008, -0/+1Which means everything but IE?
        • linuxpenguin, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1Sorry, I don't consider Netscape or AOL's horrible excuse to be worthy of any such title. Maybe you're talking about Mozilla Suite but that's basically Netscape. The other ones suck - I tried them when I used Windows, they blew even compared to Netscape or Phoenix 0.1 beta (which actually was pretty sweet, except that it was a little buggy and froze too often).
    • MacParrot, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3So you want to block Safari AND Safari. Why aren't you running a major corporation?
  • Ryan121, on 04/18/2008, -6/+5Please don't let my lecturer know that people are still using IE 3 or he will actually murder his whole class! He over reacts a bit to this kind of thing.
    • stasis88, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3Next time when you have a comment here's a tip, have a point! It makes it so much more interesting for the reader.
      • Tarotsan, on 04/19/2008, -0/+0If your going to tell that to everyone on the net who doesn't have a point it will take you a life time, and it won't be interesting to the readers.
  • withears, on 04/18/2008, -3/+34Any word on support for Lynx?
    • jamesmcginnis, on 04/18/2008, -20/+1Never heard of Lynx.....you mean linux????
      • mickstephenson, on 04/18/2008, -2/+7He is referring to lynx a test based web browser for unix. Lame comment though because he presumably saw that I mentioned links2 a bit further up the page.
        • withears, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3BUSTED! That Link2 comment reminded me of when Lynx was my only option.

          I will digg you UP for your outstanding cognitive skills.
      • xsquirrel378x, on 04/18/2008, -0/+9epic facepalm.jpg
    • Anfidurl, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2Yes. That word is this: Screwed.
  • robthom, on 04/18/2008, -15/+7Paypal is complete and utter *****! It has been for years. I really wish somebody would come out with a reasonable alternative. I dont know why thats so difficult because a lot of people would use it.

    Oh, BTW firefox sucks.
    • DeFex, on 04/18/2008, -5/+2never had any trouble with paypal. firefox on the other hand...
      • robthom, on 04/18/2008, -2/+1Oh if I had the time and energy to detail my numerous adventures with paypal. It was pretty handy about 4 years ago, then it started getting popular and you could see the change in attitude it took on. I haven't been able to use paypal for much of anything in years. I'm sure it works fine for paying for ebay auctions, but rudimentary actions that used to be a simple matter like transferring money to a friend have become so convoluted with so many stipulations that its just easier to stick the money in an envelope. I'm sure its fine for paying on ebay since ebay owns it, but its nowhere as overall useful as it used to be. For me at least. And the attitude that I get whenever I have to contact them about a problem means I just refuse to use it anymore at all.
    • HorseloverFat8, on 04/18/2008, -1/+9I agree.......except for the "Firefox sucks" part. Which is certainly does not, unless you have a problem with web browsers in general.
    • linuxpenguin, on 04/18/2008, -1/+2You might be better off offering your complaints to PayPal than a bunch of diggers sitting on the 'net. Something tells me they have business reasons to take it into consideration.
      • robthom, on 04/18/2008, -3/+1My complaints about paypal or firefox?
        I couldn't care less about paypal anymore, or firefox for that matter, I was just voicing my opinion if its all right with you.
    • JulyZerg, on 04/18/2008, -0/+1Why don't you design one, robthom?
  • zephc, on 04/18/2008, -7/+3I'm using Safari and have no problem accessing paypal so far...
    • Intamin, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Look at the title again...does the word "to" mean anything to you?
  • dtfinch, on 04/18/2008, -1/+5I hope it's a blacklist instead of a whitelist.
  • WilliamDavis, on 04/18/2008, -2/+8Why does paypal need to push EV SSL?
  • Agreb91, on 04/18/2008, -8/+3So according to Pay Pal, Safari is an unsafe web browser.
    • umpres, on 04/18/2008, -1/+2Yes, you understood correctly. Great job! We're all so proud of you.
    • DarkDx, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Thanks for repeating that the article said.
  • TylerDCA, on 04/18/2008, -0/+7I'm not sure if I like the idea of websites taking responsibility for determining appropriate hardware. Too often I get error msgs saying 'You need at at least Flash 7 to use this site' while I am using Flash 8. Regardless I have full faith that paypal will get it right, it is the rest of the sites copying this concept that will pose a problem.
    • FairDinkumMate, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2I think the sites are a little more interested in the SOFTWARE you are using than the HARDWARE
  • willgonz, on 04/18/2008, -3/+2All sites dealing with money or sensitive information should just require their customers to purchase a SecurID fob. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecurID
    • tugger, on 04/19/2008, -0/+5yeah, $400 outside of europe...

      /click here to get back to reality
    • ilgaz, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Why? I can generate secure password on 1Passwd for OS X and would NEVER have to type it or even know it. Why are we getting robbed by RSA and Verisign non working fantasies in every occasion? Just because Paypal? Eh, there is Moneybookers, way more secure and serious. At least your support requests doesn't end up at Bangalore/India.
  • hakz, on 04/18/2008, -3/+14who the hell still uses Internet Explorer 3???
  • MethodOne, on 04/18/2008, -3/+2I hope PayPal doesn't exclude users of Iceweasel, Debian's build.of Firefox.
  • brstilson, on 04/18/2008, -7/+4So they're blocking IE?
  • iNoles, on 04/18/2008, -2/+8http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2008/02/27/exten ... LOL Extended Validation certificates can't block XSS.,
  • betasp, on 04/18/2008, -1/+5This sounds great until the first "phishing" list gets compromised.
  • linkerjpatrick, on 04/18/2008, -3/+25I wish they wouldn't support IE6 so I would have a good excuse not to as well.
    • ilgaz, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Even MS says IE 6 should be avoided as they have posted IE 7 as a security update and even allow pirates to install it.
      Just not putting IE 6 , the impossible to secure browser (ask ANY developer, its arch is broken) to that list, Paypal CTO shows his the basic fact that he is bribed by MS.
  • quade, on 04/18/2008, -6/+19Buried as inaccurate. IE6 can still get in.
  • saikyan, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2http://www.paypalsucks.com/
    Any questions?
  • dcolley, on 04/18/2008, -3/+1NBC took their shows off itunes. I stopped watching NBC. If paypal blocks safari, I will stop using paypal, but not before I have a long discussion with ebay. I think that I will do that anyway. The only problem with phishing scams is the disconnect between the keyboard and the computer.
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