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367 Comments
- Motobike_man, on 10/12/2007, -15/+200I agree! I know 5 people who would buy a Mac tomorrow if they released a Mac Minitower.
- hotsoda, on 10/12/2007, -5/+137"I agree! I know 5 people who would buy a Mac tomorrow if they released a Mac Minitower."
Amen. Myself included.
And you know what, just call it a "Mac". Fits perfectly. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -11/+84All they need to do is get a Mac Mini, make it tall enough to add a PCI-E slot and bam....
and @ euphemizeme...that would be the MacBook - monospaced, on 10/12/2007, -10/+70Absolutely. For some reason, Apple has left a massive gap between the iMacs and the Mac Pros. I, for one, would be the target customer for a machine like this, and I half expected to see it released at the MacWorld Expo instead of the iPhone. Stupid iPhone.
- tazx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+42AppleTV (Hacked) - Mac Mini -- iMac line ---- [Missing Mac] ---- Mac Pro line
Definitely room for something in there, price-wise, and performance-wise. I have an Intel iMac I'm very happy with; but would love the versatility of a simple tower machine with a couple HD bays, upgradable video card, and external display, without the premium price of the Mac Pro line. - tracydanger, on 10/12/2007, -15/+52I would not personally want one myself (I'm happy with the iMac), but as an Apple shareholder, with my humble knowledge of business, I think this is a possibly untapped market. It's not hard to see a lot of people in the categories he mentioned wanting something like this. It is hard to believe that Apple would agree. I imagine they would say - "We've got the mac mini," but this guy already made some counter arguments against that attitude. Given Steve's philosophy when he first came back - cutting all kinds of projects - I bet he/they are real careful about adding new products.
- scott983, on 10/12/2007, -10/+44Dear Apple, I would really appreciate it if you cannibalize your existing machine sales not to mention your margins and profits and compete with Dell. Thanks a bunch!
/sarcasm
Apple makes money selling 1 consumer PCs, 2 High end PCs for graphics pros. Selling a cheap PC that can be upgraded (with other peoples hardware) gets them nothing except lost sales of Mac Pros.
Not gonna happen. - Optic7, on 10/12/2007, -4/+34I agree as well, but I would also add a full-size 3.5" hard drive to the features request list, so you could (soon) have a 1 TB internal hard drive if you wanted to.
Basically, this would be a Mac Business desktop. Think of the market potential not only with regular people but with large businesses. I would buy one. - TheFinaleofSeem, on 10/12/2007, -3/+29Precisely! I'm eyeballing a 24" iMac as my next upgrade someday over the rainbow if that mid-range tower doesn't magically appear. I'd love a Mac Pro, but it's expensive overkill for me. Quad core is nice, but I really don't need it, nor do I need FB-DIMMs. I'd just like a nice, dual-core Conroe box with some expandability options for a good deal less. That would really, really float my boat and I'd grab one in a heartbeat. As it stands now, the 24" iMac with an Nvidia 7600 is the best option.
- deuceswilde, on 10/12/2007, -4/+29When I was looking for a desktop I sorely wanted something exactly like this. I ended up settling on a 20" iMac which for the time being is great. But let's face it, I don't have the money or the desire to buy a new computer every few years just because one major part is outdated (graphics card). The way it is now I'm essentially getting rid of a whole machine full of good components and relegating it to side duty, or I'm forced to deal with an inadequate machine for longer than should be necessary.
- zweben, on 10/12/2007, -4/+28I am a current Mac user, but i'm in a situation where I really don't have much of a clear upgrade path, and the described low end tower would be perfect.
I have a 30" display and a PowerBook G4 that's getting too slow for me. The only Macs that can run my display are the PowerBook, the MacBook Pro and the Mac Pro. But I don't want or need another laptop. And I can't afford the Mac Pro.
So I don't really have any option other than to hold onto my current Mac for longer than I wanted to. - gmprunner, on 10/12/2007, -9/+32You felt wrong.
- Psyael, on 10/12/2007, -11/+33@betterth:
Sure you can, General Motors has long advertised low prices and big rebates and now they've slipped to #2 behind a company that just builds more bulletproof transportation.
The thing is that Diggers don't seem to realize that the reason Apple doesn't have a product like this is because there is no mainstream appeal in it. Normal, non-technical people don't want to upgrade their video card. This wish is mostly propagated by tech professionals on a budget, and Apple has no interest in them. - mfrager, on 10/12/2007, -6/+28The problem with using dual monitors with the iMac is that they will not match.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -13/+33Open letters are a vain attempt for attention.
- tazx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/
- ij00mini, on 10/12/2007, -6/+25With LED backlighting on the way, a MacTablet might not be too far off. The battery life saved by the LED could be put to good use on a touchscreen.
That a good enough iBook replacement? - Sk8SkaNJ, on 10/12/2007, -6/+24"It can be priced at around $100 to $200 more than a same spec. Windows box due to the value of OS X (esp. 10.5). "
Right, its the OS that makes it cost more... - dmeyers, on 10/12/2007, -6/+23seriously. "they arent _that_ expensive"?
Jesus I don't even want to know how much you make. If you call $4000 not expensive for a computer you are insane. My car doesn't cost that much money.
Hell, for one of those computers I have my rent for a YEAR.
For the most high end Mac Pro, I have a semester of my tuition payed off. - basye, on 10/12/2007, -7/+23Bring back the Cube!!!!!!!
Best machine I ever had, still going strong since 2001 (with a few upgrades, of course). That machine is a piece of art.
And the Mini pales in comparison to it--the Cube fits the bill for the "in-between" Mac, IMO. - mfrager, on 10/12/2007, -12/+28Okay, if you read my letter you would see that I do use Linux (OpenSUSE to be exact).
But I realize that Mac OS X is better.
For example: Beagle does not really compare to Spotlight and Beryl is nothing compared to Core Animation (upcoming in 10.5).
Also, there no Photoshop or other Adobe suite products that run on Linux. - imjustabill, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17Wow, you're right!! 2500 dollars is pretty cheap for a consumer level computer! Your anger and frustration have opened my eyes, thank you
- aston127, on 10/12/2007, -12/+27you know what i miss?
The Handle.
Its so you can attach a rope and use it as a BOAT ANCHOR! - darthsuo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19@psyael
Well, I don't see Nvidia or ATI doing so badly, and their higher-end cards sell *only* to the "tech professionals on a budget". However, I think the point is moot; the whole point of the Mac experience is that it's so top down. If users aren't locked into Apple's small choice of upgrade hardware, there'll be oodles of compatibility problems and bugs. The reason Macs are perceived to "just work" is because OS X is designed for a very limited hardware set, and as soon as you let people run with what they want, the number of configs balloons into the trillions. - Ray_Justice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14We have to remember that Macs don't have the same "enormous driver support" as Windows. So even if they made a regular "Mac" tower it wouldn't necessarily support any video card or other PCI card that you could stick into it.
- Psyael, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I like how tazx kind of just proved his point. ;P
- autoxtl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15In the mid-1990s I used to work for a company that used Apple's tower computers. Then, they started only making mini-towers, which nearly killed us until the "add-a-slot" companies came along to make the machines expandable. Now, they're making very small and very large machines, with nothing in the middle. I'd go for just this kind of lightly customizable Mac, especially one where I could put in a couple of display cards of my own choosing (like one ATI and one NVIDIA ;-) and still have it be quasi-portable -- unlike the Mac Pro. OK Apple, make one and I'll sign up to buy it.
- aule, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16@Psyael
"This wish is mostly propagated by tech professionals on a budget, and Apple has no interest in them."
You've brought up an interesting point here. In my opinion, Apple should be all over this market, why? All of the students using macs in universities today (in my opinion, the fastest growing area of new Mac enthusiasts) are going to be the "tech professionals on a budget" in the next 4 years, trying to battle student debts. A product like this coming out in the next year or so and be would fit right in. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Dig me down all you like. What he is saying is that voicing an opinion is attention whoring, and shouldn't be done. That runs contrary to everyone being able to voice an opinion, without prejudice. It's not right to condemn this blogger without even discussing the validity of what was said. I happen to think that this guy makes a valid point, and that he does not deserve to be called an attention whore because of it.
- sandbird, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Could Apple sell a ton of these? Absolutely. So why don't they?
Because 1) They don't need to and 2) It doesn't fit in with their current business model.
Apple in the Steve Jobs era has been very careful about where it carves its niches at. Right now you have the Mac Mini, the iMac, and the Mac Pro for desktop users. A Mac minitower would swipe marketshare from all three of these. Most of all it would steal marketshare from the Mac Pro, which is a high-markup item. If someone needs a 512MB graphics card and they're working on a Mac, Apple is going to want the $2500 tower sale, not the $800 minitower sale. It's simply business. If there ever comes a time when Apple's profitability will hinge on putting something like this out, then they'll do it. Considering how their stock has done, they've been making the right decisions for a while anyway. Macs may hold only around 5% of the market, but when you're making billions on top of billions, maybe being a niche player ain't so bad. - tracydanger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14iPhone shuffle
- celerate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11The original Macintosh had the monitor integrated, so some might consider the iMac its modern day successor.
- stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11People don't want used G4 machines from 2003. They want a new Core 2 Duo machine where they can easily upgrade the hard drives, video card, sound card, etc. as they wish.
- BlueFiberOp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11This is exactly my complaint. I have a custom PC and a 24 inch LCD. The Mac Mini is too underpowered and the Mac Pro is overkill. I want a decent Mac to replace my PC desktop.
- woojoo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11THey need to bring The Cube back.
- monospaced, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I waited for something like a Mini Tower (standard computer, in my opinion) for so long, and finally did break down and get the 24" iMac. I'm a graphic designer, so the screen size and quality paired with the processing power is great, but in a year or so I'd like to upgrade, and I can't. With a Mini Tower, I'd be able to replace the screen if it malfunctioned, or was inadequate; I'd be able to add internal cards and hard drives.
On the other hand, the iMac is great because it includes a massive Apple LCD (worth half the machine in value) and can be resold (traded-in) in a couple years with a minimal loss. Oh well. - lozadaj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9More Like the iMac Pequeño
- ejtttje, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12FYI: iMacs easily do dual-heading... there's a DVI port in the back, just need a $20 adapter!
I think the upgradability argument is overblown... RAM is really easy to upgrade, and you can do most stuff with USB and firewire addons. That's kind of the point actually -- there's not much need to open the case for adding components. And if you eventually want to upgrade something like a graphics card, it's of limited utility without upgrading the whole machine anyway.
I think the idea with the iMac is that it's well balanced, and when you're ready for a new machine, you sell off the whole functioning unit as-is, and get another well-balanced machine. For instance, you have the 19" monitors now, but by the time you get another machine, it'll be coming with 22" LCDs and super-high DPI... (or whatever the latest thing is)
It's a difference of buying a whole new system all at once and then saving your money for a while and not buying anything, vs. constantly buying a stream of individual components (always having to take things apart, fixing driver issues, having one component or another bottlenecked, etc.)
If you're used to the latter strategy you think that's the way it's done and expect to keep doing it, but it's really not necessarily the best way to go about doing things. - Greer70, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Apple CANNOT build this product. It would encourage non-Apple peripherals to be attached (video cards, other PCI or PCI-Express cards) by people who would pay less than $2,000 for a computer.
Instead, Apple needs to have those people salivating for the next whole product, so they can get the whole purchase - - they only want the professionals who will not put up with crappy graphics and teeny hard drives to put new stuff in their systems.
Apple is about selling the experience. If they only sold computers, people would not buy them. They'd buy Dells.
That's also why people will spend the $100 per year to update their OS. - Bootes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8ejtttje brand new Macs today come with underpowered video cards. People already own perfectly good monitors that they don't want to replace. People don't want to have to pay for a new screen every time they buy a computer.
The Mac Mini is not powerful enough, nor upgradeable enough. The Mac Pro is just too expensive because of it's Xeon processors. Basically, Apple needs a tower that does not use processors made for servers. - celerate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I think that mentality is part of what is holding back the Mac platform. When you really think about it the integrated monitor is a big turn-off for a lot of people because when the display goes you have a huge chunk of computer that is designed to sit in front of you pushed off the the side so you can use an external monitor. How reliable the screen is doesn't matter, one way or another I am just one of many people who don't want to buy a computer that has major components integrated that are a serious pain or simply impossible to replace.
The majority of the computer market right now grew up with PCs, and when parts broke they could either fix the parts themselves or go to a computer store to have the computer fixed. If it's not under warranty it doesn't matter which computer store fixes your computer, as long as they do a good job. Where I live we lost our only local Apple authorized repair centre and now what Mac users are up here can't get their macs fixed in any of the computer stores because the designs are unconventional and in many cases much more difficult to service. If a monitor dies on a PC it's no big deal, most models don't integrate the monitor so it's as simple as throwing out the old and buying a new one, no wasted space. If an optical drive dies it takes all of two minutes to take the old one out and put a new one in, no scouring e-bay for affordable parts. If a hard drive dies in any PC it's a far sight easier to replace than the hard drive in the Mac Mini, and if you want a RAM upgrade with a PC it's cheap and involves removing one panel and snapping the new chips into place on the motherboard, as compared to disassembling a Mac Mini in order to even get to the RAM slots.If you want to add a second hard drive, you'd better hope you have a Mac Pro or get to liking the idea of external drives taking up extra power outlets and USB or FireWire ports. In my case a RAM upgrade meant ordering some bloody expensive ram from Kingston, a 1GB kit was something like $235 CAD and when my Mini wouldn't boot afterwards because of how difficult it was to install the RAM I wasn't sure whether to cry or kill something (fortunately it was easily fixed). Had I known that more than $900 CAD later I would have a Mini that couldn't even handle scrolling on Apple's own web page for OS X without choking I would never have invested that kind of cash, I have put together PCs with better hardware and much better graphics cards for half the cost.
To be fair I did get a Core Solo Mini, but still, when I'm on Digg I need to wait for the page to completely finish loading in either Safari or FireFox otherwise it chokes when I'm scrolling. Apple needs to work on the flexibility of their models and particularly user-upgradeability, the iMacs might be easier to service than the Mini, and make upgrading (to a limited extent) easier, but the integrated monitors is an unnecessary expense and waste of space given that either the computer or the monitor will die first, but either way the cost of repairs will be more than a new system and thus one component would be wasted. As for the Mac Pros, those allow lots of accessibility, but at a huge cost, and I don't feel like selling one or both of my kidneys to afford one.
I like using OS X over Windows, and I gave up Linux a while ago, but unless I can upgrade the graphics card, optical drive, and hard drive in my Mini it's already obsolete and runs slower than the $1000 Toshiba laptop I have that I bought over a year ago. Oh, and the screen limits usability too (another reason not to get an iMac), I can't casually use a 1024x768 resolution screen any more now that I've got a 1440x900 resolution LCD display at home, I only put up with the lower resolutions at work because I have to. Apple needn't worry about their products not going obsolete, you can upgrade PCs and yet most people (including non-gamers) still get new ones every two years when their existing ones still have another three or four years of usable life in them. - ejtttje, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Oh, I'll also add that that a year-or-two-old aftermarket mac pro is essentially the midrange tower you're asking for. I know, not as sexy as a new machine, but this is perhaps why Macs tend to hold their resale value fairly well.
- ronmexico, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@ Jefferson
You're childish. - UltraMegaFilms, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Jesus Christ. Somebody give this guy a hug.
- davetoast14, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8The iMac can do multiple monitors. It has a mini-DVI port on the back.
- Petrarch1603, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6you started your comment by saying ¨I don´t care anymore¨ yet you have one of the longest comments in this thread. what gives?
- coit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Terrible letter.
The guy complains about the lack of graphic horsepower in his Mac Mini, then he indicates his solution is to access it using a PC running linux over VNC?
I think there are much more compelling cases here just in the comments. Try again Mike. - calebhawk, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8@lynx:
my macbook is black not white... i have about 7 pc's and 2 macs (ibook g4 and macbook) i dont think i've touched any of my pcs in about 6 months... maybe if you'd try something before saying its ***** you'd have a different opinion, until then...
shut up - bombadier337, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I would buy one of these in a heartbeat. I have a 21 inch widescreen monitor, and I'd love to have a Mac and my Ubuntu box on a KVM. The Mac Pro is too expensive, and Mac mini is too underpowered.
- mfrager, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13I really do not understand why Apple hasn't shipped a simple Mac like this already. It's like they don't want lots of market share or something. Or maybe they're so distracted by fancy products that they forgot about simple ones.
Now that the Mac is Intel it is really the time to make another simple, cheap box Mac that works great and sells like crazy! The key is some simple expandability: upgradeable video card, processor, ram and maybe an extra internal disk bay would pretty much do it (and a extra PCI-Express 1x or two would be nice) -
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