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219 Comments
- Zanneth, on 10/12/2007, -6/+53Cool! I didn't know it was that intuitive.
- elroy, on 10/12/2007, -7/+49''Cool! I didn't know it was that intuitive.''
Um... it's a Mac! - georgemoore13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+41Since the Google vid is down, I am posting this here for visibility.
Same exact vid, just youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcOZc3rv8-Q - chesterton, on 10/12/2007, -5/+41Who cares... they've implemented it with style.
- LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -3/+39Skyshock:
The compiz demo you showed is a fairly impressive display of graphics horsepower (and annoying loud music), but none of those effects are useful in actually managing your desktop, your windows, and your workspaces...
Your window jiggles like its made of jello... that's very nice, but is it useful other than for showboating?
The workspaces as sides of a cube seems like a groovy idea at first until you realize that it's less useful than tiling the workspaces on a flat 2D surface because you CAN'T SEE the 3 surfaces on the other side of a cube...
While visually, something like Expose doesn't have the visual appeal that some of these other newcomers do, what Mac OS X has figured out is that eye candy for the sake of eye candy is a waste.. instead, leverage it to improve your workflow. That's a lesson that our friends on the Linux side and Windows Vista side will have to learn soon enough. - Antialias, on 10/12/2007, -6/+40Nobody is saying it's a new idea. But like many things, Apple takes an idea that has been around for awhile, and figures out how to make it really work. Virtual desktops have been around forever, but moving things between them, and finding things with 30 windows across 4 desktops was a pain. With this implementation I might actually start using virtual desktops on a regular basis.
- danglerman, on 10/12/2007, -9/+35my mouth is watering
- kirakun, on 10/12/2007, -7/+31I wonder if each individual "space" can have its own dock too.
I would love to set one space to have a dock with all my podcasting tools, another space with a dock that has all my programming tools, and a third with all my internet uses like emails and chats. - Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -11/+34Very nice, i like it. This should dispell anyone who's calling either function eye candy, i hope someone rips off.. ahem, implements that for windows.
- cubbieco, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23@skyshock21
Read the comments. It's not just eye candy, its something that we actually see ourselves using. Its taking the virtual desktop idea that has so much potential and implementing it in a way that we (people who aren't currently using virtual desktops) will use.
It's grouping your windows and being able to find that one window you want instantly no matter what desktop its on or how much crap we have open. - SPThom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23Uhh... When does Microsoft actually improve something it borrows from other products? The problem isn't that MS copies, its that their implementations come five years too late and typically suck.
- DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -7/+26But compiz has wobbling windows! That's so useful!
- trekkie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22This one of Apple's strengths I feel. They take a good idea, further. They may not innovate everything from the ground up, but they sure as hell know how to implement it in a totally useable, and awesome way.
- Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -10/+29@manfrin:
Congratulations on injecting the first nasty note into what was just a simple discussion about some cool technology. Nobody ever said Apple invented virtual desktops. Looks to me like they've come up with some new ways to implement them though. - jnagel, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21holy cow dude, that is indeed awesome...i didn't think i'd need multiple desktops like that but with total expose integration it's not looking nearly as useless
- SPThom, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19The XGL vids are indeed very cool/badass, but I'm not sure how practical they are. This is pretty practical.
- ahdustin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21The difference is: When Microsoft copies it turns out to be extremely crappy. When Apple copies they make it work even more intuitively and even more attractively.
- cubbieco, on 10/12/2007, -6/+23@diggywiggit
I love it. A fully functional easy way to organize all of your windows and it "can't compare to compiz."
Don't get me wrong, I love compiz, and I'm sure they'll copy spaces soon, but this is much better than compiz as far as doing anything actually useful.
Besides, the final release of Leopard might have the jiggly windows that you are in love with. - cubbieco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16@prockcore
Nobody is bashing compiz here. Compiz is brand new. It's better than anything that has been previously done in linux.
And BTW, the unwrap in compiz while great and a good step forward is not the same as seeing all windows in all desktops simultaneously and adjusting their locations like in this video.
I'm sure compiz will do this soon as this is an exciting way to do this, and when that happens I'll praise compiz too, but right now this switching video in Leopard is better than what anybody else has done. - TheScareScrow, on 10/12/2007, -7/+23ahh this video brought me 1 minute of levity. I think Apple is right on track where they are going with their OS. Wonder how long until MS has a dock?
- clackerd, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20wow, that is a slick virtual desktop implementation. i am using virtue desktops now (a great app), but spaces looks leaps and bounds ahead of it.
- RMSzero, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20Excellent comment, Manfrin. Really, top notch.
You replied to a guy who was complaining that Apple stole this feature from someone else to ask why no one is complaining that Apple stole this feature from someone else.
Quality work! Keep it coming! - MikeCerm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17Same dock for all spaces, and clicking dock prog takes you automatically to the space where that program is already running.
- wastern, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18Wow....they took the traditional unix multiple desktop idea and made it 1,000 times better. that looks amazing.
I could never get into using the virtual desktops, especially after expose, i didn't see the need....but that looks cool as hell and takes it up a few notches above what is out there now - kolywater, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16from an HCI point of view, you can't even compare spaces to previous virtual desktops. it's clear, intuitive, and relies on much more natural metaphors than current implementations. when you move papers from one side of your desk to another, do you open a menu on the paper and tell it which part of the desk to go to? no, you just spread the papers out and drag them with your hands.
i use virtual desktops every day, and have done so on windows, linux and osx. spaces is shaping up to be the best implementation of the concept. - s0ny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Yeah..Perfect Example - Apple comes out with Expose, a perfect method for seeing all your windows. So what does MS follow it up with? OMFG ITS WINDOWS FLIP 3D.
You tell me which method is more productive. Scrolling through each window until you find the one you want or seeing them all at once and clicking the one you want. - otomo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17I am guessing yes. Given that Tiger supports G3 processor macs fine. Your G4 will be supported most likely.
But I don't know what apple intends to do sooooo. - skottles, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17kirakun -
its the same doc for all the spaces. the company i work has developer copies of leopard. maybe when it is finally released? - hansamurai, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15Agreed, when I first heard of the idea I thought, "well, that's not very original." This video cleared a lot of things up and now it looks pretty cool.
- porkstacker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13OK, for you skeptics of this being a useful technology, please read:
Having worked in the graphic design industry for a number of years (design firm from 1989 - 1993, freelance designer from 1994 - 1997) and as a web developer/designer off and on from 1998 to present, I can see where this is worthwhile. Why? Since you would have the ability to have multiple projects going on simultaneously within seemingly disparate workspaces. The nature of any sort of design or conceptualisation work is such that there are many workflows going on in parallel, and since we no longer do things on paste-up board with rub-on type, amberlith/rubylith, and stat camera images, we don’t hang all of our concepts (mounted on paste-up board) up on a large wall and observe from five feet back--everything in our workflow is done digitally these days.
OK, I am done re-living the analog past. Carry on. - NOFXY, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17@ reevolutn
No. If Microsoft did this they would either:
A) Scrap it because they couldnt fit it in their deadline of other cool stuff being developed
B) Just couldnt figure out how to pull it off.
or
C) Would do it half assed with tons of patches after to protect the user from their own faulty code - ehmjay, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18I CANNOT WAIT!!! I just hope my little powerbook can handle 10.5!
- birch25, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11this is why i like apple. the whole spaces/exposé thing is very cool looking, but more importantly, it's very usable. compare this to microsoft's flip 3d (or whatever it's called) which is cool for the sake of cool at the expense of usability.
- pkulak, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17*****, this is way more useable. I've had Linux on machines for a while and I never use virtual desktops because they are a pain in the ass.
- plkrtn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Very nice!
Take an old idea, and make it usable! - ac3boy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10The difference here is that Apple is using the entire screen. It seems silly to waste all the monitor real estate to scroll sideways to find a desktop. Unless I a missing something.
- s0ny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Moron. Thats the whole point of this video. Instead of having to look on "each side of the cube" you can see all your desktop spaces at once. Oooh, now where is that window I was looking for...you do expose and it will show you every window in every space. God I mean...if all an OS had to do was minimize everything into categories to make you happy then Microsoft loooves users like you because your complacent and take whatever MS gives you and think thats the best there is.
Keep your mouth shut until you know what your talking about. It helps prevent looking like a moron. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I'm sure I'll have good use for this as I usually keep these apps open all at once:
Photoshop
iChat
Entourage
Safari
Fetch FTP
Azeurus
Word
Now I can not heavily tax the Dock bullpen so to speak - mostman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12You know - I am a huge fan of Linux - really I am. But I have to say that it gets tired when when people trot out these responses. "Oh who cares - [pick an open source product] is much better" (for reference, see MythTV).
I have seen the XGL videos. They look slick. However, it is still built on top of the same Desktop environment. All it adds is Candy. Spaces may end up being Candy as well - but at least it is built on top of a Desktop environment that enhances efficiency.
Call me a heretic - but I can see all of you shaking your heads. Open Source is cool because its free and you can tell your friends that your stuff is way more cutting edge than they have ever seen. Who will question you? They don't have the balls to run a package manager or ./configure to find out for themselves.
Let me let you all in on a little advice. Spend some friggen money. Try out OSX like I did. I promise you that you will not only be happy - but find yourself with some added free time. Think about it - no longer banging on the keyboard responding to stories on Digg - spreading the mantra of Open Source. - cubbieco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9It's all in good fun. Let the underdog take a few potshots.
It's only funny because it's true.
Personally I hope Microsoft continues to copy the good ideas that others are doing and makes good improvements to the OS that I'll be forever forced to use. - spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Care to say how? I can't see how this could be anything but useful.
- inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11The difference is that Apple takes an already existing idea, adds their own sense of design and usability to it whereas MS just half-assedly copies what's already there without trying to add anything worthwhile.
Seriously, I'm not trying to come off like a fanboy but copying is one thing and building on the previous ideas is another. MS copies. Apple builds on ideas. Scoff if you want, but there is a difference. - porkstacker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"um, Im a graphic designer too and the way I take care of it is just switch between windows on taskbar. I dont see the point of switching virtual desktops. I dont see a point."
Since that statement begs me to show that you lack the ability to think creatively I would suspect that you are not really a graphic designer. But if by chance you are, but just suck badly at it (PowerPoint "artistry" does NOT make a person a graphic designer) please read on:
Imagine if you will (as all good designers do, as an active imagination is the very crux with which all good designers' abilities stem forth from), the idea of showing a client a few variations of a theme... each variegated theme (hypothetically consisting of different components in each workspace laid out side by side--a masthead, business card design, annual report cover design, magazine advertisement, web banner, etc.) could be instantaneously be switched between very rapidly--each workspace instance (or whatever the form the reference takes place is applied to) is almost like being able to glance up at that wall clad with paste-up boards (aforementioned, scroll up a tad within this digg comment section) yet without having to use paste up boards.
Oh, nevermind. I am talking to myself. If you truly are a graphic designer you could see where this would be valuable. On the other hand, if you are a masturbator (Massimo Vignelli once stated that there is a difference between masturbators and innovators) Powerpoint "artist" hack then my condolences to you.
end rant - spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Ok, now we know how "Spaces" deals with Expose. How about a demo on a multi-monitor setup? That's what I really want to see.
- DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9prockcore:
Ok I guess I had lost a quarter of a brain before explaining the compiz method.
Still:
Do I want my screen scroll like a cube if I accidentally drag a window a little off the screen? No.
Do I want parts of windows from other workspace show in the current one? No.
Do I want to have to drag through multiple full screen desktops to get to the place I want? No.
Compiz cubed workspaces may look like the computers in Hollywood movies, but like in movies, it's mostly fluff.
I bet you can (also) switch workspaces in Leopard while dragging a window, but fortunately it only activates when you trigger the switch, not when you move more than half of the window off the screen.
To me it's simple logic that seeing all the workspaces at once for drag and drop is much more powerful than scrolling through them one by one.
Can't you admit it's a better way? Are you waiting for an exact copy to be added to compiz before validating the obvious? - LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9The Compiz cube is visually quite impressive, but from a usability point of view, it's actually worse than if you had a traditional 2D tiling of the workspaces like Apple does.
A cube has 6 faces, but the Compiz one only populates 4 of them... The downside of a 3D cube is that you'll only be able to view 1/2 of the populated surfaces at once. That means that if you had 4 workspaces on a cube, you'd only be able to see 2 of them at a time. You wouldn't be able to see the other two if something changed on those without rotating the cube.
This is a situation where the KISS rule applies... managing your workspaces on a 3D is a lot more eye candy, but its more computationally intensive, and less useful. - LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Windows Flip3D is only sort of like expose in that it lets you see a live updated miniaturized version of all your windows... but instead of tiling them so they do not overlap (exposing them all, so to speak) like Expose does, it arranges them in a rolodex fashion so you need to riffle through them all much like one of those old school rolodexes to get to the window you want.
Flip 3D is probably more useful than the old school Alt-Tab, or the Alt-Tab with powertoy plugin... but it doesn't take it to the same level as Expose.
To put it in Big-O notation terms, using Alt-Tab and Flip 3D is O(n), where n is the number of windows you have open at the moment. If there are 15 windows open, you may need to press Alt-Tab up to 15 times, or scroll your scroll wheel 15 times before you reach the window you want.
Finding a window in Expose, however, is O(1), ie. a constant time operation. I can expose all my windows, and go directly to the window i want in a constant time, in the default case, one press of F9, a move of the mouse to the window, and a click. Even if there are 15 windows open, it will take the same number of actions... - moisie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Multiple docks would be a pain since you could easily miss stuff that was happeneing out of view.
- 1010011010, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11The multi-dock idea is good! Along those lines, better multi-monitor support in general would be nice. The single menubar is good as far as it goes -- but having an application on a different monitor than the menu bar is less than ideal. Perhaps each display could have its own menubar for the applications whose windows are located on that display.
- Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Yeah, I thought this was a ho-hum feature until this... looks pretty useful!
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